Is the Fountain Raceboat REALLY making 3000 HP ?

[WATERWINGS]

Each motor??

I was just told that they are making that much................I think I will have to call ................BS........

We all know that 7000+ HP is possible from a V-8, but 3000 would be doubling what most of the already badass offshore boats run now......right?

I heard that there was gonna be a kilo run this weekend, but Reggie keeps breaking the "gearboxes" ? due to making to much power, and even when he "sandbags" it back to 2000 HP, he is still breaking parts???

I hear the boat out there running almost everyday, and it DOES sound a little stronger than what I usually hear out of the raceboats, but,,,,,,,,,3000 HP ???

[1BadAction]

are they turbos or blowers?

[Chummy]

Go get some video of that thing running

[1BadAction]

Go get some video of that thing running

werd... at least pics :D

another thing, are they mountain motors? If so those damn things can be close to 1000ci. turbos on a mountain motor could damn near make 3000hp on 93 octane. :eek: :eek:

[old school]

7000 hp........???? I don't knowww???? A blown 500 CID Hemi, running nitromethane (top fuel), make about 8000 hp. give or take acouple hundred. It consumes 1.5 gals of fuel per second, and that's turning 9,500 rpm, so when you relate that to a non- nitromethane burning engine.... something is not quite right. Or the dyno needs to be cleaned.

[RBT]

the motors are supposed to be adiabiatic, but I was under the impression that nobody could ever really get it to work. Apparently the guy building the motors is using this as a showcase.......... who knows.

BTW, for those that don't know. Check out Smokey Yunick from more on them.

RT

[Riverratt]

To make that kind of power they would have to be running the omc coils.

[beer30]

I assumed that the Fountain was running 'Rudes on it!!!!!:D :D :p Chuck

[Riverratt]

I assumed that the Fountain was running 'Rudes on it!!!!!:D :D :p Chuck
If you are nice to me I might bring some of my secret coils to the romp for you to try.

[WATERWINGS]

the motors are supposed to be adiabiatic, but I was under the impression that nobody could ever really get it to work. Apparently the guy building the motors is using this as a showcase.......... who knows.

BTW, for those that don't know. Check out Smokey Yunick from more on them.

RT

I don't know much about the new motors, but they do have a different sound to them.

Seems like I heard something about they found a more efficient way or burning the fuel ??? (OMC coils) ??:D

Tell us about them RBT

Remember the deal where Reggie went out and ran away from all the Cats (poker run), and talked about how he spanked all of them.............(come on, lets compare apples to apples..please)

I was also told that the V-bottom (Fountain), now holds the new world speed record???

At over 200 MPH?? ....still callin BS............

I saw 202 MPH right here on my river, when the Barcardi boat broke the record.............(in a Cat)

[Chummy]

Fountain is the fastest V at 171.?? average on 2 passes

[RB in NM]

Hey Beer,,, it'z gotta be them hotrod ETec's...:D

[The Big Al]

Fountain is the fastest V at 171.?? average on 2 passes

yes he is!

http://media.putfile.com/Fountain-Powerboats-Records-2005

Top speed of 177.359 mph!!!

I was talking with Benny Robertson.

Reggie wants the 200mph mark! And is on a mission to get it!

[The Big Al]

I hear the boat out there running almost everyday, and it DOES sound a little stronger than what I usually hear out of the raceboats, but,,,,,,,,,3000 HP ???

47-foot Fountain, powered by twin 1,500-hp Sterling supercharged engines with Mercury #6 drives

[RBT]

His Reggieness is full of hot air. Ya his boats run, but there is more marketing than substance. There are A LOT of better boats out there... at least in my opinion. To me a Fountain is the Sea Ray of the offshore world.

That Kat Killer marketing stunt makes me ill. First they brought a race boat to a poker run, with a set of 1550 Sterlings... on Race Gas, the boat they went after "SpeedRacer", also has 1550 Sterling's, but they were de-tuned to run on pump fuel.
Apparently Speed DID pass Rio Roses.... but you won't see that on tape, then he lost a blower belt.
That aside, if you watch the tape... You see the Fountain running at speed in no wake zones, past pleasure craft and through other poker runners. This is not good for performance boats...... if an insurance company sees this imagine what they will do!.

As for the engines, I really don't know much about them other than in a regular motor only about 25% of the energy in the fuel is used. This aims at getting to more of that. It works backward to most engines, they HEAT (as opposed to cool)the fuel vapor so it is ready to go off before entering the chamber.... the key here is keeping them from detonating........ that is why know one has really figured it out.
Maybe this guy has..........

RT

[The Big Al]

No poker run here! They did it. And you can't take it away!
___________________________________________________


Fountain Powerboats' "Cat-Killer" V-Bottom Race Boat Reigns in Key West
# 15 Panasonic Rio Roses Fountain Mercury Wins World Championship
Beats Catamaran Competition to Take First Overall

November 16, 2006 - WASHINGTON, NC - There's a new top dog in the offshore racing world and it's not a cat. Despite predictions that a V-hull boat could not beat a catamaran in this level of racing - and in spite of stiff competition from the #12 BTM Marine Superboat cat - Fountain's #15 Panasonic Rio Roses Fountain Mercury race boat took First Overall in the 36th Annual Key West World Championship, November 5 - 12, 2006. "There hasn't been a V-bottom First Overall winner in Key West for almost two decades," said David Knight, President of Fountain Powerboats, who is throttleman of the #15 Fountain team. "It's the start of a new era."
With veteran racer Michael Seebold at the wheel, the 47-foot Fountain, powered by twin 1,500-hp Sterling supercharged engines with Mercury #6 drives, was also crowned World Champion in the Super Vee Unlimited Class. The #15 boat won all three races in its class by a substantial margin. "It was fast racing on a fast course," Knight said. "We were averaging speeds on the straight-aways in the 150-mph range. On Sunday, on the last couple of laps, I tweaked it up and we were running close to 170." The boat performed flawlessly, thanks to the combined efforts of its racing team members, including Crew Chief Brian Forehand, Alan Riehl, Roddney Rich, Royce Whitley, James Bass - and especially Reggie Fountain, Chief Engineer and Designer. "My thanks go to him for designing the best piece of marine equipment in the whole world and giving us the privilege to run it," said Knight.
In addition to setting the race course on fire, the #15 race boat serves as a powerful research & development tool for Fountain Powerboats. "We are constantly making changes to that boat in terms of the bottom, the steps, the center of gravity, the set-up and the engines," Knight said. "Fountain Powerboats customers expect us to be on the leading edge of marine technology. When something works well with this boat, we instantly make the manufacturing change to the rest of our line. The beneficiary of all this is our customers."
The next challenge for Panasonic Rio Roses Fountain Mercury race boat will be to take on the Unlimited Offshore World Speed Record. Although Fountain Powerboats claims the current record, set at 171.888 mph by a Fountain 42' Lightning with twin 1,500-hp Sterling engines, the Fountain team feels the #15 race boat can beat it. "There is going to be a new Kilo," Knight announced, referring to a measured-distance challenge. "We'll raise the current speed record at that event, and we'll do it before the Miami boat show."

[1BadAction]

I knew I heard that somewhere before. Its also called a hot vapor cycle engine, and its very powerful/efficient. Smokey Yunick did a turbocharged fiero back in the early 80s and made over 200hp and 55mpg. http://www.schou.dk/hvce/?mode=2

[sho305]

LOL, someplace I have that old article about Smokey putting that system on a Omni turbo....yes a 2.2L Chrysler! It was supposed to heat it up, it ran exhaust through the intake and more or less he said the turbo was just to shove it in the cylinder due to heat expansion. However, it was not really intended to make extra power at that time...or not that much anyway but was supposed to get great mpg. It had a lot less HP than the GLHS did, or Spirit/Daytona RTs.

The Fountain I rode in on Lake Michigan rode like a rock, sure it went 90+ but you didn't want to be sitting. I rode the same water in a much smaller 28 at ~80 that was a lot more stable....of course it had no pad either.

[sho305]

LOL!! click here: http://forums.hotrod.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=182616&page=&fpart=1&vc=1
now click on the youtube link and see what you get......lol!:eek::rolleyes:

[RBT]

Big Al,

He was the ONLY BOAT IN THE CLASS....... all the Cats he beat had Toy motors...... No vee can even remotely keep up to a CAT.... rough or calm. It is guys like you that eat up all his BS.

RT

[GTO GEORGE]

werd... at least pics :D

another thing, are they mountain motors? If so those damn things can be close to 1000ci. turbos on a mountain motor could damn near make 3000hp on 93 octane. :eek: :eek:
It's very difficult, maybe impossible, to supercharge a "mountain motor" and make it live, because it's hard to dissipate the heat. I read something in Hot Rod magazine about it but I don't remember, exactly, the reasons. Maybe in a boat, using the lakewater as coolant, it wouldn't be a problem.

Smokey Yunick's adiabatic motors superheated the fuel to help atomization and give a complete burn. I saw a guy on TV, last weekend that had Smokey's old Fiero that he did the same mod as that Dodge econobox and it produced 250hp and got 50 mpg, so he says. Smokey is/was something of a hero to me, but there's contention in several circles that the adiabatic motor was suffering from smoke and mirrors; a few things just didn't add up.

[David - WI]

Check out Smokey Yunick from more on them.

The "Sterling Performance" race engines have nothing at all to do with "Sterling Cycle" adiabatic engines... except a common name.

As for Smokey's "hot-air" engine... that was a hoax.


I met Smokey Yunick at a seminar at Charlotte Motor Speedway in 88 or so and asked him about this project; the engine he used was a Mopar 2.2, and the engine had one fundamental problem- he said that there was no oil that would last for a satisfactory length of time in operation except for mil-spec jet engine oil, which he said was $98 a quart at the time. I haven't heard anything about this project since then.

Yes, of course, he scrapped the most "revolutionary" engine ever designed because the motor oil was too expensive! :rolleyes:

The 125 cu.in. engine referenced in Smokey's "patent" supposedly made 190hp with 10psi of boost on 93 octane fuel. A 1000 cu. in. motor would make 8 times that or 1520hp... which is about half of what these new race motors are claiming.

It would equate to a 500 cu. in. motor making 760hp with 10 pounds of boost, which isn't really too impressive... especially one that never raced or was tested for endurance.

The patents have long since expired or been abandoned, they were never sold to Shell Oil or Crane Cams as is claimed all over the internet (they were transferred from him to his own company, apparently)... but have you seen even one of these "hot-air" motors running, ever?

The motor that is supposedly sitting in a warehouse at the Smithsonian... has no references anywhere on the Smithsonian Institute's website; in spite of a press release from Smokey's people that it was "on it's way" back in '01.

Search all Smithsonian websites for "Yunick"... and all you'll find is info on songbirds. :o

Do you really think that in the 20+ years since the patent was filed... that people haven't tried & failed to make this mythical engine run?

Funny man, that Smokey!

[RBT]

Oh sweet mother of god, I feel like the Big Al..... I am gonna cut and paste something!:eek: :eek:

New engine technology, or Hocus Pocus.....?
<HR SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Fountain testing motors that could rewrite history

Plans are to cruise at race speeds around current world record

By LAWRENCE KEECH, Staff Writer

Fountain Powerboats is poised to not only break the vee-bottom boat world speed record, but obliterate it at speeds approaching that of the renowned super-cats.

In testing Friday, company president David Knight said the Rio Rose’s boat “will run as fast as we want to go,” using technology that defies the laws of physics.

“We are going to be cruising (in Sunday’s race) at speeds well above the world record,” Knight said with a hint of pride in his voice Friday in a phone interview.

Knight had predicted earlier in the week a race speed around the current world record of 171-miles per hour. But in testing Friday, the engines that some say “aren’t suppose to work” produced race-condition speeds near the 180-mile per hour range.

“And with some tweaking we could probably break the 200 mark,” Knight said.

Knight estimated the motors are capable of producing speeds in the neighborhood of 225, but a redesign boat hull would be required first.

Knight, who joined Fountain Powerboats with a goal of keeping the company at the forefront of technology and engineering excellence, admitted skepticism in the new motors until he saw them run, and said it will take more time before they can start shooting for the 200 mark.

“These motors create an incredible amount of torque,” Knight said, “and a vee-bottomleans to the left in a turn already, plus the torque is push-ing you to the left. It is going to take a lot of getting use to, before we are going to know how to compensate for that. I’ll just trim it hard to the right and keep working at it, until we get it.”

How much of a change in torque?

According to engine builder and designer Alberto Solaroli’s research, the new motors produce almost 250 extra pounds of torque, nearly double the horsepower of Fountain’s previous race engines, increases boost by two tenths, reduces RPMs and comes close to tripling fuel mileage — and the faster the engine runs, the colder it gets.

“Torque is what is most important,” Knight said. “Horsepower is just a number, but torque is what turns your tires, or your drives, or props or what ever it is you’re trying to push.”

Solaroli’s patented system, which he unsuccessfully pitched to numerous companies before getting a shot with Fountain, creates an adiabatic system — principles similar to how a refrigerator or air conditioner work. It takes hot compressed air and rapidly releases it, causing it to cool. It is much like a can of spray air for computer key boards.

Adiabatic systems are not new, but until Solaroli’s design changes, they were not practical due to early ignition, compression and other problems. Solaroli installed multiple cooling chambers that allow the motor to continually cool.

“Since the motor is getting colder as you run it faster, there is no need for a radiator, no need for fans and all the belts, hoses, gears and drives associated with them,” Solaroli said.

In the case of race boats, Solaroli was able to replace the nearly four-foot superchargers with six-inch turbo drives, further decreasing the boat’s weight.

The system also runs very clean and does not require a catalytic converter, which means less weight and by burning less fuel, there are fewer refills or smaller tanks.

Inside the motor, Solaroli writes “the pre-expansion of air on its way into the combustion chamber, prevents excessive temperatures being generated ...”

“We have three basic phasing going on inside the motor,” he said. “We’ve got a depressurization (which cools the engine), then we can lean burn the motor because of the temperature of the charged air that is going in, and we have changed the efficiency from 15 percent to 85 percent.”

Breaking the law of physics, Solaroli has shortened the length of the flame.

The explain why a shortened flame is more efficiency, Solaroli said, “You hold your hand over a candle flame, it gets hot, you run your finger through the flame at the wick and you don’t feel it. Everything beyond the point where you do not feel it, is wasted energy.”

“You’re going to see the physics books rewritten because of the motors in this boat,” he said.

Solaroli added, “we wanted to give somebody like Fountain the oomph to be able to get way ahead of everybody else. We’re going to give them so much power, they are going to have to redesign the hull to handle it.”

Solaroli sees a number of other uses for the technology.

He said he is working on plans that could be used by the U.S. government for engines which could be placed into humvees,

“Hummers are burning up in the deserts in Iraq,” he said. “We have a program coming through the Pentagon, where we are going to convert some diesels. We can take a Durmax diesel, which typically gets about 14 miles per gallon, we added 196 horsepower, 346 pounds of torque and we gained 44 percent more fuel economy.”

Why else is the military interested?

“Heat seeking missiles work at a 400 degree Fahrenheit threshold, below that they are classified as people,” Solaroli explained. “This system cools the engine to a point below that, so now I can make a hummer go across the desert and look like a human and nobody can shoot at it.”

Other uses include smaller generators that produce more power.

“We are going to take a C15 diesel that is six and half feet long, five and half feet high and has a radiator of 6x6 on the front, and we’re going to shrink that by two, multiply the torque and horsepower by two and give them 60 percent more efficiency,” he said.

Solaroli said there is the potential to use the technology in regular cars.

[1BadAction]

. but have you seen even one of these "hot-air" motors running, ever?


its documented and proven. the fiero was on tv just this past weekend. it ran, and still runs to this day.

[WATERWINGS]

47-foot Fountain, powered by twin 1,500-hp Sterling supercharged engines with Mercury #6 drives


So, its 1500 per engine, NOT 3000 per engine??

That makes more sence

[RBT]

So, its 1500 per engine, NOT 3000 per engine??

That makes more sence

No, the boat has CET engines NOT Sterling.

http://cetengines.com/how.html

RT

[sho305]

A Stirling engine is a competley different thing, it has no spark or combustion inside the engine but does run on heat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine

I think the Smokey engine worked, how well I don't know and I doubt the pains of using it were worth the gain. The one problem with turbo engines is that on the highway with low load you go off boost. Then you are running a low compression engine, not the way to get good mpg! I think today's variable cams can help cylinder filling some, but still can't make it work as well as a variable compression engine. Saab was working on an engine that had a movable cylinder to vary compression, but I think GM dropped it when they bought them. Too bad as a turbo engine is really the only feasable variable displacement engine we have. VW is supposed to have a new engine with a blower and a turbo that is smaller and makes good power, better mpg. The Twincharger: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twincharger where a 1.4L has more power, better mpg (5% they say), and less emissions than a comparable 2.0L. It also uses direct injection like most modern automakers now do...oh, that is right we live in backwards USA so we don't need stuff like DI.

Maybe Reggie has a really big blue tank in the bow of the boat...or is running alchohol.

Efficiency change of 15 to 85 percent? That is a huge leap that I find real hard to believe. And cold? you have turbos and pistons both compressing and making heat. Smokey's engine didn't cool itself that I know of.

[sho305]

What if someone puts that kind of power in a cat....

Anyway, I read some of the patent and best I can figure he is doing the opposite of what Smokey was doing. He is running a turbo (likely then an intercooler) but then using a throttle inside the intake to restrict it, thus causing a pressure drop and cooler temps going into the cylinder. Boost must be really high.

[6Killer]

Why use 2 motors when just one of the right kind is enough.;)

Pictures from Forkin Crazy......I think.

6

[David - WI]

its documented and proven. the fiero was on tv just this past weekend. it ran, and still runs to this day.

The most honest write-up on Smokey's engine is here:
http://theoldone.com/archive/thoughts-on-smokey-yunick.htm


The actual power output was down considerably, and regardless of what Smokey says, positive manifold pressure is "boost" in my book.

Now with this "non boost", the performance end was better than stock, but the mileage claims were proven to be no better than any hand built and well tuned engine. The emission numbers were not there either.

Smokey never invested in the equipment to allow one to analyze the chemicals that comprise the exhaust, and once the engines were tested carefully, the output was pretty nasty.

It ran, but it didn't do any of the things he claimed it could do.

If you read any of the other articles on Larry Widmer's website, I think you'll find that he's very knowledgeable and a pretty straight shooter.

http://theoldone.com/articles/

[David - WI]

Oh sweet mother of god, I feel like the Big Al..... I am gonna cut and paste something!:eek: :eek:

CET-ENGINES:
This engine works on a pseudo adiabatic principle.

Pseudo: being apparently rather than actually as stated : SHAM (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sham), SPURIOUS (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spurious) -"distinction between true and pseudo humanism"

You're definitely a wise-ass... but you're not too smart.

[GTO GEORGE]

Why use 2 motors when just one of the right kind is enough.;)

Pictures from Forkin Crazy......I think.

6
What's the hang-up with using car motors? A large enough turbine will out-torque and out horsepower any motor originally designed for grocery getters, and at a weight that is fractional. I imagine that since Fountain is promoting Mercury in some way, there has to be tie-in to what they produce and it ain't turbines.

[SERIOUS]

Not Too Many Cats Go 170 The Fastest Is 203 Mph?

[beer30]

Not Too Many Cats Go 170 The Fastest Is 203 Mph?

You are talking about Callan Marine;) . Also I find it hard to believe that a 47FT Fountain with 3000 hp is as fast as a 46FT Skater with 3000 hp:rolleyes: . I would have to see that in person!!!!!:D Chuck

[RBT]

CET-ENGINES:

Pseudo: being apparently rather than actually as stated : SHAM (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sham), SPURIOUS (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spurious) -"distinction between true and pseudo humanism"

You're definitely a wise-ass... but you're not too smart.

Who is that last comment directed toward?

RT

[jphii]

Well, if they run this weekend I'll go out and take some pictures. Maybe I can catch a ride with Waterwings. Big Al, I'll be around.

[SERIOUS]

You are talking about Callan Marine;) . Also I find it hard to believe that a 47FT Fountain with 3000 hp is as fast as a 46FT Skater with 3000 hp:rolleyes: . I would have to see that in person!!!!!:D ChuckI THINK IT WAS MTI CAT NOT SHURE:confused: BUT YA NEVER KNOW IF HE GOES 200MPH WHICH I DOUBT:rolleyes: AND I'M FOUNTAIN OWNER THAT MEANS 160-170 CRUISE THATS VERY HARD TO STAY WITH AND IN BIG WATER EVEN HARDER

[MIJI]

I was willing to believe anything until I saw Reggie's hair. What is he thinking?

[SERIOUS]

He's Thinking Elvis

[RBT]

The Callen boat is Callen brand, the previous boat (the white one with Callen on the side) was a Tencara, designed by Michael Peters. The new boats are designed by John Coasker (sp?), it is my understanding that the new Callen 50' "longlite" will run 230 ish so far........ that is a full 50+ better than his Regginess has run.
In all fairness, his Regginess has done a lot, he has built a half way sucessfull ( merc bailed him out, and his current profit margins are around 1% which in the world of finance is tight )business and created some brand recognition. He certainly has done more than anyone as of late to push the speeds up.

It is also my understanding that CET is footing the bill to prove that there engines work, which I suppose is mutually beneficial.
I just hope they are safe, no vee is safe at these speeds. They are pushing speeds up with brute force, beyond the current drive and propeller limits, failure could be fatal. They certainly know the risks lets hope that they are sucessful if nothing more it sure will be cool to see.

As for the engines........ this debate is supid, CET is the builder..... Smokey has nothing to do with them. The only reason I brough him up is I remember him and adiabatic from physics in school. I seem to recall my prof laughing then.... but if CET does it... they will be the only ones laughing.

RT

[SERIOUS]

The Callen boat is Callen brand, the previous boat (the white one with Callen on the side) was a Tencara, designed by Michael Peters. The new boats are designed by John Coasker (sp?), it is my understanding that the new Callen 50' "longlite" will run 230 ish so far........ that is a full 50+ better than his Regginess has run.
In all fairness, his Regginess has done a lot, he has built a half way sucessfull ( merc bailed him out, and his current profit margins are around 1% which in the world of finance is tight )business and created some brand recognition. He certainly has done more than anyone as of late to push the speeds up.

It is also my understanding that CET is footing the bill to prove that there engines work, which I suppose is mutually beneficial.
I just hope they are safe, no vee is safe at these speeds. They are pushing speeds up with brute force, beyond the current drive and propeller limits, failure could be fatal. They certainly know the risks lets hope that they are sucessful if nothing more it sure will be cool to see.

As for the engines........ this debate is supid, CET is the builder..... Smokey has nothing to do with them. The only reason I brough him up is I remember him and adiabatic from physics in school. I seem to recall my prof laughing then.... but if CET does it... they will be the only ones laughing.

RTI WAS TALKING ABOUT SPEED RACER AND THE BUWISER BOAT THAT DD 203MPH?SORRY

[Instigator]

On Smokey.. he was the man! Was a huge fan of his.
His book, "Power Secrets" is a great read and funny as schitt!
His famous quote is..."it's not what the rules say, it's what they don't say" :p
There's a picture of his famous Trans Am road race Camaro from the '70's.
Rules said, "body must match contour template".. They started out w/only one for length of car.
Smokey cut a Camaro in half long ways, whacked out I think 12 or 18" of the middle and welded it back together :eek:
Inspector said, "that's not legal". Smokey replied, "go get your template" :D
Another time at a Stock Car race back in the 50's they (I think Nascar) spec'd "OEM cam shaft lobe design and size". What it did not say was "OEM cam timing" :p
Smokey made his own cam w/the lobes timed different than stock.
Story goes that after he tore his own motor down (said he was only one allowed to do this) that he tripped while handing the cam to the inspector and dropped it on the ground.
When it hit, it of course shattered into 16 individual lobes rolling around so they had no way to prove he was cheating :D
Great book.

On Reggie, I got sick of his crap 20 yrs ago. I remember a friend saying that he had been in his house and it was the only place he'd ever been w/a full sized portrait of the owner in every room :p
In the boat building world every one has a story about his boats coming apart when run hard.
RBT's analogy with the Sea Ray is pretty close from what I know/hear.
I think it's mandatory you buy at least three sweaters and jackets with every boat :)

With that I will say that I am maybe the biggest Vee bottom fan on the planet and there is nothing better than watching a Vee go around a cat but....WFO w/unlimited power???
Not in this life time.

Now you go back out in the ocean and run Miami to New York or Bahamas and back... things would change abruptly.

P.S., OMC coils :eek:

[RBT]

SERIOUS, you are correct, both Speed and the Bud are MTI's, though, there are also a 36 and 46 Skater in BUD colors.
My mistake, I thought you were talking about the Callen boat.

[RBT]

There it is 208, in a mile from a dead start. The Fountain runs a kilo, or 5/8 of a mile, it takes a few mile run at it. The average over the 5/8 is the speed.... 177 was the best pass to date. BIG DIFFERNENCE

[RUDERIOT]

I just want 6 of them 3000 H.P. O.M.C. coils please:D

[SERIOUS]

Fountain powerboats have shown their superiority in every V-bottom class in offshore racing, winning world and national championships in every category in which they compete. No other manufacturer even comes close. The same can be said for offshore racing world speed records, which have become the personal property of Reggie Fountain not to mention his domination of the Kilo Records. What's even more amazing is that Fountain didn't start offshore racing until 1990, after retiring from tunnel-boat racing nearly a decade before. Most racers take years to get their first offshore victory, but Fountain began winning instantly and continues to frequent the winner's circle. Not since the late Don Aronow has one man designed, built, throttled and driven a boat of his own make to such dominance on the demanding offshore tour. Fountain Powerboats is the only V-bottom builder in the decade of the '90s to score a first-place overall finish at a nationally sanctioned offshore race. We've taken the overall victory more than a dozen times. Additionally, through a two-year stretch, Reggie Fountain went undefeated in major offshore competition.

Perhaps Fountain's biggest milestone achievement in offshore racing came in New Orleans, LA, in 1990. Racing against a star-studded fleet that included actors Chuck Norris, Don Johnson and Kurt Russell, Fountain overcame amazing odds and beat the entire field of high-tech one-design racing catamarans with his V-bottom. The win was particularly sweet for Fountain because V-bottoms reputedly were no match for the catamarans in slick water. To the amazement of the "experts," Fountain aced a fleet of the world's fastest offshore cats in water conditions on Lake Ponchartrain that would've been ideal for a barefoot ski tournament.

Two years later in 1992, Reggie, throttling John Rebhan's Fountain 42' Lightning, Ohio Steel, accomplished the near impossible by capturing the OPT World and National Championships in Open V-bottom. Fountain also won the APBA World Championship in Manufacturer's Super Vee.

You might as well call Reggie Fountain "Mr. Milestone." In 1998, he achieved a record that no one else in powerboat racing can match, capturing his 100th career victory. In the same year, his company, Fountain Powerboats, celebrated its own milestone-its 20th anniversary!

http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/company/images/reggie6_mn.jpgNICE ARTICLE:)

[The Big Al]

mms://media.fountainpowerboats.com/fountainpowerboats/2006JaxPokerRun.wmv

[Scottb]

Only 3 offshore boats have documented speeds over 200 mph, Dave Scott's 36 skater ran 202 at LOTO, Callans Tencara I believe ran 203 or 205, and Dave Callens 50 Mystic ran 208 at LOTO. Its one thing to say you can do 200 in an offshore powerboat, but the bottom line is only 4 people can Dave Scott, Johnny Tomlinson, Dave Callen, and John Kosker.
I can tell your from experience, that once you hit the 160 mark, it takes alot more than horsepower to get you there. We have run our boat at 185mph on GPS and believe we can do 200, but we have alot of work ahead of us.
For anyone V or CAT TO ACHIEVE 170+, in a documented event(I don't mean running you GPS up and slowing down immediately) is an awesome achievement and the list grows rapidly shorter with each 10mph increase after that.
Hat's off to Reggie in this awesome accomplishment and his boat will kill many a cat...........but not ours;)

[Mastercraft241]

Hat's off to Reggie in this awesome accomplishment and his boat will kill many a cat...........but not ours;) I love how you slipped that last line in there, lol:rolleyes:. But i agree, put the same engines that reggies fountain has and put that in a cat and he wouldnt stand a chance. The other thing that bothers me is he goes to a poker run to face 180mph cats but those guys have passengers in their boats. Those cats really have to be extra cautious and make sure their passengers feel as safe as possible, its not like reggies fountain thats a closed cockpit, and 2 professional drivers.

[JUPITER PULSARE]

Only 3 offshore boats have documented speeds over 200 mph, Dave Scott's 36 skater ran 202 at LOTO, Callans Tencara I believe ran 203 or 205, and Dave Callens 50 Mystic ran 208 at LOTO. Its one thing to say you can do 200 in an offshore powerboat, but the bottom line is only 4 people can Dave Scott, Johnny Tomlinson, Dave Callen, and John Kosker.
I can tell your from experience, that once you hit the 160 mark, it takes alot more than horsepower to get you there. We have run our boat at 185mph on GPS and believe we can do 200, but we have alot of work ahead of us.
For anyone V or CAT TO ACHIEVE 170+, in a documented event(I don't mean running you GPS up and slowing down immediately) is an awesome achievement and the list grows rapidly shorter with each 10mph increase after that.
Hat's off to Reggie in this awesome accomplishment and his boat will kill many a cat...........but not ours;)

Saw you boat during the Jupiter Parade...Very cool boat indeed!!!

[The Big Al]

When you go to race!

Bring it all!

If the other guy brought more, he came prepared better than you!:eek:

REGGIE WILL DO WHAT IT TAKES!:rolleyes:

[jmg944t]

This may be another can vs. should problem..

Can a V go 200?
SHOULD a V go 200?

2 different questions with 2 different answers.

It is not that anything on the water is "safe" at those speeds but the V just has so much going against it in terms of surviving the run intact compared to the cat. Seems like fountains marketing campaign could be "Putting lipstick on a pig for 20 years!" :D

It would be great to see him try so hard with an offshore cat. He is winning a race where he is the only competitor.

[hydroholic]

Not trying to stir up a bunch of crap or start a pissing match because I love the big cats just as much as the next guy and know they are the fastest,but you have got to give the man his props.He is only doing what any smart succesful buisness man would do,talk his product up and improve upon it.He must be doing a pretty good job of it because I don't know where yall live but here in the pan handle of Fl. and lower Al.you may occasionaly see a cat but the Fountain V's are every where.The statement was made above that it would be nice if he only tried so hard in an offshore cat and he was running a race where he was the only competition.The man is stead fast with his product and as far as the only competition goes,some say it's to dangerous to run a V bottom that fast,well I don't see to many people stepping up in V bottoms to challenge him.I think he has some balls but he is also a smart buisness man.Like it or not ,he has a long way to go but he is gaining ground on the cats.He is great for the sport and his name and accomplishments will be around long after we are gone.Stay tuned to see what else he accomplishes before his time is up.Hydro

[SERIOUS]

On OSO they are saying it is canceled because of blown tranny?170+ I DON' THINK HE NEEDS TO UP IT!

[jmg944t]

Hydro,
all very good points. I guess he really has no option but to promote strongly what he does. Make affordable fast Ocean V bottoms for the masses. There is a market for them all right. The competition in terms of speed (40+ foot cats) is all more expensive is it not? Then you have Outer Limits, fast V's but huge $$$. Reggie will probably make more of his boats this month than Outer Limits will make all year... Though you can have ostrich skin interiors in one:eek:
I applaud his conviction but in my head it makes alot of sense for him to apply the same business practice to the large cat market and knock 100K off the price of a 46' Skater while ending up in a faster boat that is safer, uses less fuel/motor than the 46' V. OTOH the guys in those boats WANT to spend alot of money...:rolleyes:

[David]

No doubt a cat is faster. But if you had to cross really nasty water, would it be in a cat or a V bottom.

On a scale I can imagine, what would be better to cross Lake Simcoe on a bad day, a 21 Skater or a 21 Tuff?

Or scale it up to 40', which would you want to o from Miami to Cuba in bad weather, cat or V?

[SERIOUS]

No doubt a cat is faster. But if you had to cross really nasty water, would it be in a cat or a V bottom.

On a scale I can imagine, what would be better to cross Lake Simcoe on a bad day, a 21 Skater or a 21 Tuff?

Or scale it up to 40', which would you want to o from Miami to Cuba in bad weather, cat or V?A V look at the Sony boat those Italians beat all records Fabio Bruzzi No brag just facts:)Tampa to Maimi

[sho305]

When I was out on Lake Michigan I never saw cats. Most boats were under 30' and all vees. Then again the offshores could hardly race there it was too rough for them. I don't have a lot of experience in cats but I'd never go out there in the rough with one unless it was big, over 30' at the least. Even the pad (30+') fountain pounded like a hammer, deep vees were the ticket....in a good one you could hold a can of your favorite beverage even. Best I was in was a 28 challenger. Now, most places don't have waves like that and I have not been out there in over 10yr.

[hydroholic]

Some good points made.As I said above ,not trying to start crap.I'm not saying one is better than the other,they both have thier +'s and -"s.Just saying I think Reggie deserves a little respect.He has broken a lot of records and is still breaking records today.That speaks for itself whether you argue he has competition or not.How many of us on this site can say we own any type of record that's related to the boating world.I'm sure the don'ts by far outway the do's.As some of you said above,Fountain alone sells more boats every year than probably all the cat manufacturers combined.He must be doing something right.And you got to admit,he builds some beautiful boats! Hydro

[SERIOUS]

Some good points made.As I said above ,not trying to start crap.I'm not saying one is better than the other,they both have thier +'s and -"s.Just saying I think Reggie deserves a little respect.He has broken a lot of records and is still breaking records today.That speaks for itself whether you argue he has competition or not.How many of us on this site can say we own any type of record that's related to the boating world.I'm sure the don'ts by far outway the do's.As some of you said above,Fountain alone sells more boats every year than probably all the cat manufacturers combined.He must be doing something right.And you got to admit,he builds some beautiful boats! HydroI hear ya:cool:

[sho305]

I agree, like him or not he sure is motivated and I can respect that. He has done a lot.

[SERIOUS]

:D35' with staggered 525's

[stylishskier]

Some good points made.As I said above ,not trying to start crap.I'm not saying one is better than the other,they both have thier +'s and -"s.Just saying I think Reggie deserves a little respect.He has broken a lot of records and is still breaking records today.That speaks for itself whether you argue he has competition or not.How many of us on this site can say we own any type of record that's related to the boating world.I'm sure the don'ts by far outway the do's.As some of you said above,Fountain alone sells more boats every year than probably all the cat manufacturers combined.He must be doing something right.And you got to admit,he builds some beautiful boats! Hydro

good points, the man has the business strategy, and he really lives by the motto "win on sunday, sell on monday" or however it goes for nascar...
just for kicks, I mean with all this splashing talk going on lately on the 18 skater thread and pantera, look at that pointed bow, that has vector/viking written all over it:D haha, Fountain does great, but dont forget about outerlimits, they are nipping at the heels and had the kilo record for a bit...

[WATERWINGS]

"look at that pointed bow, that has vector/viking written all over it:D "

Yes it does.........

I think I have heard him say that he DID steal the nose from the Vector/V-King

[sho305]

What a problem to have in your offshore boat...."My engines are making twice the power and blowing out my transmissions....I can't find a bigger trans....dang it! The worlds largest performance I/O maker (& my sponsor/business partner) can't get me one either...my engines make TOO MUCH POWER.":(:(:(

[mr_velocity]

No doubt a cat is faster. But if you had to cross really nasty water, would it be in a cat or a V bottom.

On a scale I can imagine, what would be better to cross Lake Simcoe on a bad day, a 21 Skater or a 21 Tuff?

Or scale it up to 40', which would you want to o from Miami to Cuba in bad weather, cat or V?

Scale it up, cat no question about it. When I raced SCL in a 36 Skater we couldn't lap the Team Virgin 38 Cig in flat water. When it got rough we had no problem lapping him almost twice. In rough water I'd take a big Skater over any boat.
Now that being said, the only downside is you can't slow down. You have to run the boat at speed or you're screwed. So for a pleasure version......well I'd still take the Skater ;)

[David]

Credit to Fountain

1. If he's making 1% profit selling boats, he's doing a lot better than many
2. For pushing V bottoms to faster and faster speeds for a given power level
3. For seeing that the future was offshore boats

The latter is where I wonder about Hydrostream. Baja and Checkmate went big, and are still around. Same with Eliminator to an extent. The original Hydrostream stayed with small boats and went broke.

And now, if Hydrostream were to make an offshore boat, with the signature beak, people would think it was a Fountain knock off.

Fountain probably sells more boats yearly than all 20 and under performance crowd combined.

What is different about V bottoms and cats now, vs when cats first came on the scene. Way back then, reading Powerboat, the V bottoms were the winners in rough seas.

[WATERWINGS]

I hear them back out there today, motors sound good.

I don't know if they have solved the problems, but they are running them again.

[airpacker]

What is different about V bottoms and cats now, vs when cats first came on the scene. Way back then, reading Powerboat, the V bottoms were the winners in rough seas.


ooooohhhh, better not let T2x read that David :) Back "then", 30 was a big cat and even then, a 30 chris cat would kick the crap out of alot of longer V's in the rough stuff. A 40 skater would run away from any super boat V in the early 90s no matter how rough it got. I recall Stewart Hayim's Recovery, an open class 36 skater lapping a 50 foot apache V ( apache heritage) superboat at the 93 worlds in 10 to 14 foot seas. A friend of mine even finnished in a 30 shadow cat with eggbeaters on the back although he walked funny for a week afterwards :)


I,d pick a cat for rough stuff thanks. Ya just can't beat "Air Ride".

[David]

I'd better go dig up my Powerboats from the late 70's early 80's when cats first appeared offshore. Sure by the 90's a cat was faster.

[SERIOUS]

THIS 1 KILLED SOME CATS:D :cool:

[T2x]

I'd better go dig up my Powerboats from the late 70's early 80's when cats first appeared offshore. Sure by the 90's a cat was faster.

The first competitive offshore cats (wooden Cougars) appeared in the late 70's. It took until the early 80's to get the construction worked out (aluminum and Fibreglass). At that point the cats "conquered offshore". After that the racing authorities either allowed the vees more power or separated the classes to make some form of competitive playing field. It is simple engineering and physics that dictates an airlift hull will run faster than a mono...and, if designed correctly, will fly over seas that a mono plunges into..... The only time a cat of equal power has a disadvantage is when it is forced to run off the bubble.... (low speed)...inlets, small craft warnings, storm seas. In those conditions a monohull will be more sea worthy...but no body is going to race in those conditions anyway.

The GPS "bracket racing" classes have confused this issue a bit because an 80 mph cat has far less power and torque than an 80 mph vee of equal bracket speed, so in some cases the acceleration difference makes a "bracket vee" seem competitive or faster. However if you simply put twin engines of equal power on an identical length and weight cat and vee and race without limits.... there is no contest. The cat has a at least 30% more speed, more stability, and better handling. Most diehard vee addicts have never driven a cat or have limited experience with them.

The surprizing thing is his Reggieness was a tunnel boat champion and knows all of this. His efforts to partner with or takeover Skater and MTI prove that he recognizes the cat's superiority. On the other hand, because they lack cabin space, Reggie may realize that he has to sell momma too and that might have fueled his "Cat killer" nonsense. If you can't mass market the cat design...you might as well throw rocks at it in your marketing campaigns.


T2x

[sho305]

I remember seeing races in the 80s and the vees could win in the rough, no way in calm. But I think the tunnels kept getting better.

Reggie is a 'shrewd businessman' as described by some, maybe they are right. He has done pretty well with his company and there have been some hard times for that industry that took out some of the others. Maybe he just needs vector style wings on the sides for some lift....:D

[Chummy]

I don't think they need anymore lift :D

[sho305]

Does not look like it does it! Well hey, who else is pushing the envelope with vees? Can't fault him for trying and who knows what he will come up with...but wait until those motors find a cat....:eek: Just saw a nice youtube video of a 24' cat with a built I/O blower motor running 119gps. Sounded nice, OBs are great but V8s are always good music too.

[SERIOUS]

MY WAY IS A V HULL BUT SOME PEOPLE GET CATISFACTION FROM A CAT:cool:

[David]

Why wouldn't I want TX2 to read my post:) His remarks and my memory are in sync. I did dig up some old Powerboats from the vaults.

Everything I knew about offshore around 1980 came from Powerboat. There were no offshore boats on Lake Simcoe or Cooch then.

Sept 81 Powerboat referred to a San Francisco race site as "no no for cats because of its traditionally rough reputation"

Oct 81 Powerboat coverage of Cowes race in England, V bottoms beat cats.

Oct 80 Powerboat coverage of a race in Long Island, "conditions marignal for cats", and "no way to beat a cat in reasonable seas"

In that era the cats and the v bottoms were both 36-38 footers.

Now I guess a 22 Talon would be a faster way across Lake Simcoe than a 21 Tuff most days, but if the weather was really stupid, the Tuff would be a choice for survival. I know I'd rather be out in my SS2000 than an STV on Cooch in 3' waves, but that either would be better on a trailer than out in that.