Toyota vs Chevy!

[The Big Al]

Now we see Toyota braging about it's towing.
And the rating is with largest power plant.
Now don't get me started on Milage, everyone knows it's huridis!

Toyota says it has GM beat by 500lbs!
And this is with Toyota's 5.7L

"look at the facts!"










<TABLE><THEAD><TR class=even><TD colSpan=3 rowSpan=2></TD><TH scope=colgroup colSpan=3>1500 WITH VORTEC 4.8L V8 ENGINE</TH></TR><TR><TH scope=colgroup colSpan=3>AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION</TH></TR><TR class=even><TH scope=col colSpan=2>Model</TH><TH scope=col>Box Length (ft.)</TH><TH scope=col>Max. Trailer Weight (lbs.)<SUP>1</SUP></TH><TH scope=col>Required Axle Ratio</TH><TH scope=col>GCWR<SUP>2,3</SUP> (lbs.)</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR><TH scope=row>1500 2WD</TH><TD>Regular Cab</TD><TD>6.5/8</TD><TD>5,200/5,000
7,200/7,000

</TD><TD>3.23
3.73

</TD><TD>10,000
12,000

</TD></TR><TR class=even><TH scope=row></TH><TD>Extended Cab</TD><TD>5.8/6.5</TD><TD>4,800/4,700
6,800/6,700

</TD><TD>3.23
3.73

</TD><TD>10,000
12,000

</TD></TR><TR><TH scope=row></TH><TD>Crew Cab</TD><TD>5.8</TD><TD>4,600
6,600

</TD><TD>3.23
3.73

</TD><TD>10,000
12,000

</TD></TR><TR class=even><TH scope=row>1500 4x4</TH><TD>Regular Cab</TD><TD>6.5/8</TD><TD>5,900/5,900
7,900/7,900

</TD><TD>3.42
4.10

</TD><TD>11,000
13,000

</TD></TR><TR><TH scope=row></TH><TD>Extended Cab</TD><TD>5.8/6.5</TD><TD>5,500/5,500
7,500/7,500

</TD><TD>3.42
4.10

</TD><TD>11,000
13,000

</TD></TR><TR class=even><TH scope=row></TH><TD>Crew Cab</TD><TD>5.8</TD><TD>5,400
7,400

</TD><TD>3.42
4.10

</TD><TD>11,000
13,000

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Maximum trailer weight ratings are calculated assuming a base vehicle, except for any option(s) necessary to achieve the rating, plus driver. The weight of other optional equipment, passengers and cargo will reduce the maximum trailer weight your vehicle can tow. See your Chevy dealer for additional details.
Gross Combination Weight Rating.
NOTE: Trailer tongue weight should be 10 to 15 percent of total loaded trailer weight (up to 1,000 lbs. on 1500 models). Addition of trailer tongue weight cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). These ratings can be found on the certification label located on the driver door or door frame. Z82 Heavy-Duty Trailering Equipment Package includes trailer hitch platform and trailer electrical connector.<TABLE><COLGROUP></COLGROUP><COLGROUP width=100><COL><COL class=even><COL><COL class=even></COLGROUP><THEAD><TR class=even><TD colSpan=2></TD><TH scope=colgroup colSpan=4>1500 WITH VORTEC 5.3L V8 ENGINE AND AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION</TH></TR><TR><TH scope=col colSpan=2>Model</TH><TH scope=col>Box Length (ft.)</TH><TH scope=col>Max. Trailer Weight (lbs.)<SUP>1</SUP></TH><TH scope=col>Required Axle Ratio</TH><TH scope=col>GCWR<SUP>2,3</SUP> (lbs.)</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR class=even><TH scope=row>1500 2WD</TH><TD>Regular Cab</TD><TD>6.5/8</TD><TD>7,200/7,000
8,200/8,000

</TD><TD>3.42
3.73

</TD><TD>12,000
13,000

</TD></TR><TR><TH scope=row></TH><TD>Extended Cab</TD><TD>5.8</TD><TD>6,800
7,800

</TD><TD>3.42
3.73


</TD><TD>12,000
13,000

</TD></TR><TR class=even><TH scope=row></TH><TD>Extended Cab</TD><TD>6.5/8</TD><TD>6,700/6,500
7,700/7,500

</TD><TD>3.42
3.73

</TD><TD>12,000
13,000

</TD></TR><TR><TH scope=row></TH><TD>Crew Cab</TD><TD>5.8</TD><TD>6,600
7,600

</TD><TD>3.42
3.73

</TD><TD>12,000
13,000

</TD></TR><TR class=even><TH scope=row>1500 4x4</TH><TD>Regular Cab</TD><TD>6.5/8</TD><TD>7,900/7,900
8,900/8,900

</TD><TD>3.73
4.10

</TD><TD>13,000
14,000

</TD></TR><TR><TH scope=row></TH><TD>Extended Cab</TD><TD>5.8</TD><TD>7,500
8,500

</TD><TD>3.73
4.10

</TD><TD>13,000
14,000

</TD></TR><TR class=even><TH scope=row></TH><TD>Extended Cab</TD><TD>6.5/8</TD><TD>7,500/7,300
8,500/8,300

</TD><TD>3.73
4.10

</TD><TD>13,000
14,000

</TD></TR><TR><TH scope=row></TH><TD>Crew Cab</TD><TD>5.8</TD><TD>7,500
8,500

</TD><TD>3.73
4.10

</TD><TD>13,000
14,000

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Maximum trailer weight ratings are calculated assuming a base vehicle, except for any option(s) necessary to achieve the rating, plus driver. The weight of other optional equipment, passengers and cargo will reduce the maximum trailer weight your vehicle can tow. See your Chevy dealer for additional details.
Gross Combination Weight Rating.
NOTE: Trailer tongue weight should be 10 to 15 percent of total loaded trailer weight (up to 1,000 lbs. on 1500 models). Addition of trailer tongue weight cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). These ratings can be found on the certification label located on the driver door or door frame. Z82 Heavy-Duty Trailering Equipment Package includes trailer hitch platform and trailer electrical connector.<TABLE><COLGROUP></COLGROUP><COLGROUP width=100><COL><COL class=even><COL><COL class=even></COLGROUP><THEAD><TR class=even><TD colSpan=2></TD><TH scope=colgroup colSpan=4>1500 WITH VORTEC MAX 6.0L V8 ENGINE AND AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION</TH></TR><TR><TH scope=col colSpan=2>Model</TH><TH scope=col>Box Length (ft.)</TH><TH scope=col>Max. Trailer Weight (lbs.)<SUP>1</SUP></TH><TH scope=col>Required Axle Ratio</TH><TH scope=col>GCWR<SUP>2,3</SUP> (lbs.)</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR class=even><TH scope=row>1500 2WD</TH><TD>Extended Cab </TD><TD>5.8</TD><TD>8,900</TD><TD>3.73</TD><TD>14,000</TD></TR><TR><TH scope=row>1500 4x4 </TH><TD>Extended Cab </TD><TD>5.8</TD><TD>8,600</TD><TD>3.73</TD><TD>14,000</TD></TR><TR class=even><TH scope=row>1500 2WD</TH><TD>Extended Cab</TD><TD>6.5</TD><TD>8,800</TD><TD>3.73</TD><TD>14,000</TD></TR><TR><TH scope=row>1500 2WD</TH><TD>Extended Cab with MAX Trailering Pack (http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/max_trailering_en.jsp)</TD><TD>6.5</TD><TD>10,300


</TD><TD>3.73


</TD><TD>15,500</TD></TR><TR class=even><TH scope=row>1500 4x4 </TH><TD>Extended Cab </TD><TD>6.5</TD><TD>8,500</TD><TD>3.73</TD><TD>14,000</TD></TR><TR><TH scope=row>1500 4x4</TH><TD>Extended Cab with MAX Trailering Pack (http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/max_trailering_en.jsp) </TD><TD>6.5</TD><TD>10,500 (http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/max_trailering_en.jsp)</TD><TD>4.10</TD><TD>16,000</TD></TR><TR class=even><TH scope=row>1500 2WD</TH><TD>Crew Cab</TD><TD>5.8</TD><TD>8,700


</TD><TD>3.73


</TD><TD>14,000</TD></TR><TR><TH scope=row>1500 2WD</TH><TD>Crew Cab with MAX Trailering Pack (http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/max_trailering_en.jsp)</TD><TD>5.8</TD><TD>10,200


</TD><TD>3.73


</TD><TD>15,500</TD></TR><TR class=even><TH scope=row>1500 4x4</TH><TD>Crew Cab</TD><TD>5.8</TD><TD>8,500</TD><TD>3.73</TD><TD>14,000</TD></TR><TR><TH scope=row>1500 4x4</TH><TD>Crew Cab with MAX Trailering Pack (http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/max_trailering_en.jsp)</TD><TD>5.8</TD><TD>10,500 (http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silverado/2007/max_trailering_en.jsp)


</TD><TD>4.10


</TD><TD>16,000</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ _______
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=760 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap colSpan=2 height=12><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="12">Toyota!!!</SPACER></TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap width=214><SPACER type="block" width="202" height="1"></SPACER></TD><TD vAlign=top width=546></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE height=240 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=558 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=558 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=bgGray noWrap width=1><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1"></SPACER></TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width=556 border=0><TBODY><TR class=bgColor01><TD vAlign=center width=192 height=22>http://www.toyota.com/images/spacer.gif</TD><TD class=body03B vAlign=center noWrap align=left width=171 height=22>Regular Cab
4x2

</TD><TD class=body03B vAlign=center noWrap align=left width=171 height=22>Regular Cab
4x4

</TD></TR><TR height=1><TD class=body01 vAlign=center width=192 height=1><SPACER type="block" width="192" height="1"></SPACER></TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=center noWrap align=left width=356 colSpan=2>http://www.toyota.com/images/spacer.gif</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Engine</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.0-liter DOHC EFI V6, 24-valve aluminum block with aluminum alloy head with VVT-i
236 hp @ 5200 rpm
266 lb.-ft. @ 4000 rpm
Bore and stroke: 3.70 x 3.74
Compression ratio: 10.0:1
Displacement: 3956 cc
Ignition system: DIS (Direct)
Emissions: LEV II (for Regular and Double Cab) ULEV II (for CrewMax)
Recommended fuel: 87 octane or higher

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>S</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>-</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.7-liter DOHC EFI V8, 32-valve aluminum block with aluminum alloy head with VVT-i
271 hp @ 5400 rpm
313 lb.-ft. @ 3400 rpm
Bore and stroke: 3.70 x 3.31
Compression ratio: 10.0:1
Displacement: 4664 cc
Ignition system: DIS (Direct)
Emissions: ULEV II
Recommended fuel: 87 octane or higher

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>O</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>O</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>5.7-liter DOHC EFI V8, 32-valve aluminum block with aluminum alloy head with Dual VVT-i
381 hp @ 5600 rpm
401 lb.-ft. @ 3600 rpm
Bore and stroke: 3.70 x 4.02
Compression ratio: 10.2:1
Displacement: 5663 cc
Ignition system: DIS (Direct)
Emissions: ULEV II
Recommended fuel: 87 octane or higher

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>O</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>O</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Drivetrain</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>5-speed automatic overdrive (4.0L V6 and 4.7L V8)</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>S</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>S</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>6-speed automatic overdrive (5.7L V8)</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>O</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>O</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4WDemand system with electronically controlled
2-speed transfer case

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>-</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>S</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Ratios:</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2>Click here (http://javascript<b></b>:openTunWin('ratios.html')) to view Tundra's gear ratios.</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Suspension</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2>Front independent coil-spring high-mounted double-wishbone with stabilizer bar and low-pressure nitrogen gas shocks; rear live axle with trapezoidal multi-leaf rear suspension and staggered low-pressure nitrogen gas shocks</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Brakes</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2>Power-assisted four-wheel Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) with Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD), Brake Assist [2 (http://javascript<b></b>:openDisclaimer('brake_asst.html');)], Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) [3 (http://javascript<b></b>:openDisclaimer('vsc.html');)] + Traction Control (TRAC) and Automatic Limited-Slip Differential (Auto LSD); Active Traction Control (A-TRAC) on 4WD
Front: Ventilated disc
Front diameter: 13.9 in.
Rear: Ventilated disc
Rear diameter: 13.6 in.
Parking brake: Pedal type


</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Steering</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2>Rack-and-pinion hydraulic power steering
Ratio: 18.1 (Double Cab 4x4: 18.0)
Turns, lock-to-lock: 3.71
Turning circle (ft.), curb-to-curb:
Regular Cab (Std. Bed/Long Bed): 39.2/44.0
Double Cab (Std. Bed/Long Bed): 44.0/49.0
CrewMax (Short Bed): 44.0

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD class=bgGray noWrap width=1><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1"></SPACER></TD></TR><TR><TD class=bgGray noWrap width=1 colSpan=3 height=1><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1"></SPACER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=558 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap height=16><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="16"></SPACER></TD></TR><TR><TD class=body01>
Back to top (http://www.toyota.com/tundra/specs.html#top)


Please remember, Toyota vehicles are built with popular option combinations. Not all options are available separately, and some options and accessories may not be available in all regions of the country. So please contact your Toyota dealer, who can help locate the vehicle that’s right for you.
Toyota Tundras are designed to meet most off-road driving requirements. Abusive use may result in bodily harm or damage. Toyota encourages responsible operation to protect you, your vehicle and the environment.
Some vehicles are shown with available equipment. Seatbelts should be worn at all times. Please do not allow passengers to ride in the cargo area. Towing hitch receivers/ball mount kits are not intended to provide crash protection.
For details on vehicle specifications, standard features and available equipment in your area, contact your Toyota dealer. A vehicle with particular equipment may not be available at the dealership. Ask your Toyota dealer to help locate a specifically equipped vehicle. All information presented herein is based on data available at the time of posting, is subject to change without notice and pertains specifically to mainland U.S.A. vehicles only (may differ in the state of Hawaii, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands and in other regions).


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE height=240 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=558 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=558 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=bgGray noWrap width=1><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1"></SPACER></TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width=556 border=0><TBODY><TR class=bgColor01><TD vAlign=center width=192 height=22>http://www.toyota.com/images/spacer.gif</TD><TD class=body03B vAlign=center noWrap align=left width=171 height=22>Regular Cab
4x2

</TD><TD class=body03B vAlign=center noWrap align=left width=171 height=22>Regular Cab
4x4

</TD></TR><TR height=1><TD class=body01 vAlign=center width=192 height=1><SPACER type="block" width="192" height="1"></SPACER></TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=center noWrap align=left width=356 colSpan=2>http://www.toyota.com/images/spacer.gif</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Exterior dimensions (in.)</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Overall height</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>75.8</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>76.2</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Overall width</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>79.9</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>79.9</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Overall length
Standard Bed/Short Bed
Long Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
209.8/-
228.7

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
209.8/-
228.7

</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Wheelbase
Standard Bed/Short Bed
Long Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
126.8/-
145.7

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
126.8/-
145.7

</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Inside bed length
Standard Bed/Short Bed
Long Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
78.7/-
97.6

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
78.7/-
97.6

</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Inside bed depth</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>22.2</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>22.2</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Inside bed width
at tailgate
between wheelwells

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
66.4
50.0

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
66.4
50.0

</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Front track</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>67.9</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>67.9</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Rear track</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>67.9</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>67.9</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Ground clearance</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>10.2</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>10.8</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Maximum load height</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>35.4</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>35.4</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Interior dimensions (in.)</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Head room (front/rear)</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>40.2/-</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>40.2/-</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Hip room (front/rear)</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>63.0/-</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>63.0/-</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Leg room (front/rear)</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>42.5/-</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>42.5/-</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Shoulder room (front/rear)</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>66.7/-</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>66.7/-</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Maximum seating capacity</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>3</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>3</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Angle of approach/departure (degrees)</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Standard Bed/Short Bed approach</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>27/-</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>28/-</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Standard Bed/Short Bed departure</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>26/-</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>27/-</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Long Bed approach</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>28</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>28</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Long Bed departure</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>25</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>27</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD class=bgGray noWrap width=1><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1"></SPACER></TD></TR><TR><TD class=bgGray noWrap width=1 colSpan=3 height=1><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1"></SPACER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=558 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap height=16><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="16"></SPACER></TD></TR><TR><TD class=body01>
Back to top (http://www.toyota.com/tundra/specs.html#top)


Please remember, Toyota vehicles are built with popular option combinations. Not all options are available separately, and some options and accessories may not be available in all regions of the country. So please contact your Toyota dealer, who can help locate the vehicle that’s right for you.
Toyota Tundras are designed to meet most off-road driving requirements. Abusive use may result in bodily harm or damage. Toyota encourages responsible operation to protect you, your vehicle and the environment.
Some vehicles are shown with available equipment. Seatbelts should be worn at all times. Please do not allow passengers to ride in the cargo area. Towing hitch receivers/ball mount kits are not intended to provide crash protection.
For details on vehicle specifications, standard features and available equipment in your area, contact your Toyota dealer. A vehicle with particular equipment may not be available at the dealership. Ask your Toyota dealer to help locate a specifically equipped vehicle. All information presented herein is based on data available at the time of posting, is subject to change without notice and pertains specifically to mainland U.S.A. vehicles only (may differ in the state of Hawaii, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands and in other regions).


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE height=240 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=558 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=558 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=bgGray noWrap width=1><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1"></SPACER></TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width=556 border=0><TBODY><TR class=bgColor01><TD vAlign=center width=192 height=22>http://www.toyota.com/images/spacer.gif</TD><TD class=body03B vAlign=center noWrap align=left width=171 height=22>Regular Cab
4x2

</TD><TD class=body03B vAlign=center noWrap align=left width=171 height=22>Regular Cab
4x4

</TD></TR><TR height=1><TD class=body01 vAlign=center width=192 height=1><SPACER type="block" width="192" height="1"></SPACER></TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=center noWrap align=left width=356 colSpan=2>http://www.toyota.com/images/spacer.gif</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Curb weight (lb.)</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.0L V6
Standard Bed/Short Bed
Long Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
4610/-
4715

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
-
-

</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.7L V8
Standard Bed/Short Bed
Long Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
4775/-
4880

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
5045/-
5145

</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>5.7L V8
Standard Bed/Short Bed
Long Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
4835/-
4935

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
5100/-
5200

</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Limited 4.7L V8
Standard Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
-

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
-

</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Limited 5.7L V8
Standard Bed/Short Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
-

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
-

</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) (lb.)</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.0L V6
Standard Bed/Short Bed
Long Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
6200/-
6400

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
-
-

</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.7L V8
Standard Bed
Long Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
6600/-
6800

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
6800/-
7000

</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>5.7L V8
Standard Bed/Short Bed
Long Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
6600/-
7000

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
6800/-
7200

</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Limited 4.7L V8
Standard Bed/Short Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
-

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
-

</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Limited 5.7L V8
Standard Bed/Short Bed

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
-

</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>
-

</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Payload [4 (http://javascript<b></b>:openDisclaimer('payload.html');)] (lb.) </TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.0L V6 Standard Bed</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>1590</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>-</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.7L V8 Standard Bed</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>1825</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>1755</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>5.7L V8 Standard Bed</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>1765</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>1700</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.0L V6 Long Bed</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>1685</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>-</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.7L V8 Long Bed</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>1920</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>1855</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>5.7L V8 Long Bed</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>2065</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>2000</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Towing capacity [5 (http://javascript<b></b>:openDisclaimer('towing.html');)] (lb.) </TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.0L V6 Standard Bed</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>5100</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>-</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.7L V8 Standard Bed</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>8500</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>8200</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>5.7L V8 Standard Bed</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>10,400</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>10,100</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.0L V6 Long Bed</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>5000</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>-</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>4.7L V8 Long Bed</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>8400</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>8100</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>5.7L V8 Long Bed</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>10,800</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>10,500</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Limited 4.7L V8</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>-</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>-</TD></TR><TR class=bgColor03 height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Limited 5.7L V8</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>-</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>-</TD></TR><TR class=bgWhite height=22><TD class=body01 vAlign=top width=192 height=22>Fuel tank (gal.)</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>26.4</TD><TD class=body01 vAlign=top align=left>26.4</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[1BadAction]

Bore and stroke: 3.70 x 4.02

under-square? the piston speed at 6000 rpm is horrid (for a 5.7), no wonder it sucks gas and revs like the oil is thick as molasses. their brainwashing marketing department says its an all new engine, but all it is, is a stroked 4.7, which is a joke to begin with. LOL, and the GVWR of my 03 chev as it sits is 2300lbs more than their best. hahaha

you can bet that 6 speed auto is a power hog slush-box too.

[JJB]

2004 Chevy 2500HD 4x4 towing a 30' with twin 250XS's, 175 gals of fuel........truck goes anywhere and will tow as fast as you want to go......mileage sucks but it's a small trade off.
Next Chevy will be the 2500HD diesel.

James

[JJB]

Forgot heres the pic............

"2004 Chevy 2500HD 4x4 towing a 30' with twin 250XS's, 175 gals of fuel........truck goes anywhere and will tow as fast as you want to go......mileage sucks but it's a small trade off.
Next Chevy will be the 2500HD diesel".

James

[Charlie M]

My last toy was a twin turbo Supra, what a POS. 381 hp out of a toyota motor, bet the head gaskets wont last long on that junk. Not to metion the junk rears and transmissions they use. Steal is so thin and trashy. When we where still dealing used cars, we would not touch a T100 it it had a trailer ball on it:D

[BullittBen]

Diesel would be best for heavy towing, but you can't beat a 5.3L 1/2 ton GM truck for all around use. I drive 3000-5000 miles a month and my GMC Ext Cab 5.3 gets 19-20 mpg and would easily tow most boats. In my family we have over 400,000 miles on 3 GMC 1/2 ton 2wd Ext cab trucks (1999,2002 and 2004). Total maintenance (other than oil changes and tires every 50k) is $300 for one Electronic ABS part on the '99. It still doesn't even need brake pads at 200,000 miles after pulling cars, tractors and boats its whole life.

My brother's 2004 (the only one with a 3.73 rear instead of 3.42) averaged 18mpg towing a 5000 lb 67 Pontiac Grand Prix through the NC mountains. I don't think there is another truck out there that could do that.

Toyotas are a joke...try to look up any of that BS they advertise about ring gear size, etc. I tried to compare and they never list any actual dimensions.

Buy American. Some people try to say that it doesn't matter because Toyotas are made here, but that's BS too because all of the profits are still going to Japan.

[us1ss]

They are the only ones with any profits to take anywhere!

[The Big Al]

Toyotas are a joke...try to look up any of that BS they advertise about ring gear size, etc. I tried to compare and they never list any actual dimensions.

.

It is a bigger ring gear!

It has to be, see the part they leave out is the gear ratio!

It's a 4.30:1 gear ratio!!

yea that's right! FOUR THIRTY TO ONE!!!

AL

[Cobra1racer]

Yup I like my 5.3, Z71 extra cab. Ran from Phx to Vagas running 80mph getting close to 19 mpg. Had an old dodge, 11 mpg sitting still with the engine off. I hated that thing, 20 gallon tank. I had to put more gass in the truck than what I would feed the old 235 for a day trip, and 6 hours on the water. It's a 2001 and she just rolled over to the 100,000 mark a couple of weeks ago.

[bullet20xdky]

Over the last few years TOYota has came out with all these numbers and commercials, oh we tow this and tow that better than ALL the comp!!! I farm 2000acres and have 500 head of cattle! I do know my trucks. If you want to pull a bass boat or even a big cruiser to the lake yea the TOYota will do the job(aka not as good as a chevy!!!!) Not speaking numbers speaking REAL world. Would I hook to my gooseneck and haul 25,000# of cattle to the yards with a TOYota Heck No. Would I hook to it with a 2500 chevy with the LITTLE 5.3 Vortec any day of the week. If they want to prove something give me a TOYota for a week Ill Kindly break it in half for them. Keep the TOYS for the little boys when the big jobs need done I will kindly sport a bowtie!!!!!

[The Big Al]

Toyotas are comin weather you like it or not. Their makin money and chevy, ford ,and dodge arent.
Look at the 6.0 and this is the HIGH output version 367hp and 375 ft lbs of torque(the regular version is 315hp and 338 ft lbs of torque)in a gmc sierra it runs 0-60 in 9.16 seconds and 16.99@83.27 in the quarter mile and this truck is lighter than the toyota double cab .

Look at the numbers 6.2 chevy has, not the 6.0 but the 6.2. 403 hp and 417 ft lbs
You cant get this motor in a truck yet. It comes in a Cadillac Escalade Ext and the 0-60mph are 6.5 seconds. Quarter mile times of 14.9@93 but is almost 200 lbs heavier than the toyota double cab. You guys want the american cars to beat ass but its not happin now. We may have to play catch up in the future. Kurt

Well let me ask!
Are you purchasing a Truck to be a Performance vehicle? "NUTS"

Now, Toyota is doing this commercial stuff about how mean and bad their truck is.
Fact is, the truck is NOT a 1/2 ton truck it's a 3/4 to 1 ton.

Now lets take a domestic 3/4 ton truck and plant it next to it.
You will see real world.
Yea, I love American made trucks. I prone to love GM.
But I owned and loved and miss my Super Duty F-350 Power Stroke 7.3

But you take any engine combo, in a 2500 GM or any of the Ford's F-250 (over or under 8500) and lets see what happens!


And take the 4:30 to 1 rear gear Toyota has and stick it one of these American trucks!

Tires will melt!

[Ted Stryker]

I agree Kurt, I really like the domestics but that doesn't mean that the Japanese trucks are reduntantly capable of whatever may come their way... I do believe that an "acceleraton while towing" test between Toyota and the domestics have already been conducted a couple of years ago, and the Toyota won.. That may or may not be applicable today, but I'm sure that Toyota didn't just hit their head and forget how to build a truck... When I was a delivery driver way back when, the Toyota trucks dependability over the other Domestics was obvious to a blind person or anyone willing to accept the blatant results... The only 2 Toyota's (4 cyl. 5-speed) had been delivery trucks their whole life, that is being severly abused by part-time teenage drivers in bumper to bumper traffic with an oil change evry 10,000 -15,000 miles or so and that's the only fluid that got changed... Both had over 300,000 miles on them and one actually had around 360,000 but still drove just fine without issue... I can't even inflate My Patriotism and tell a story remotely that impressive about the compact Domestics ( one S-10 & 2 Ford Rangers ) that were delivery trucks, they wilted looooong before those kind of odometer readings... Honestly, they were a pile of mechanical schitt before way before 200k... One of the Toyota's actually delivered 2,500+ lbs. of scrap engine heads to the scrap yard in one trip... The springs were flat, and I thought the tires were gonna blow out but it made there... How many times it had done that before My arrival is unknown, but they treated those things like they really wanted to have a reason to buy new trucks... I think that Domestics will do anything that they were intended for and then some, but for some People to not give Toyota their credit for their willingness to build a solid truck is a curiosity for Me...

[gotboostedvr6]

My last toy was a twin turbo Supra, what a POS. 381 hp out of a toyota motor, bet the head gaskets wont last long on that junk. Not to metion the junk rears and transmissions they use. Steal is so thin and trashy. When we where still dealing used cars, we would not touch a T100 it it had a trailer ball on it:D

No offence but
Are you smoking something?

2jzgte motors hold 500 whp in 100% stock form with a single big turbo upgrade on pump

650+whp is possible if you can control your foot
Ask me how i know

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/gotboostedvr6/epjce0.jpg

ran 10.4 all day long

nothing that has stock internals can hold a candle to that motor

[gotboostedvr6]

My current Tow vehical
a 84 pickup w 22r has a 3,200 lb towing limit and its a measley 2.2 liter carb
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/gotboostedvr6/DSC01192.jpg

[Cobra1racer]

Hey Bullet. I worked on a farm in my younger years. Nothing worked better than the old ford 3/4 ton 300 inline six with a grany gear. We used to hand stack 150 bails of hay in a wagon and haul it up into the mountains. Now that was an engine. 1/4 mile times mean jack. Put something behind it. Like the honda comercial, slam on th ebreaks and the boat pushes the ass end around, too light duty.

[speedboats]

Have to agree with Cobra1racer. When it comes to the all round towing package it's hard to beat American. Sure the Jappa's are adequate, and on the 4 lane more than acceptable, but everytime you pull an heavy load and go through a gourge or need olot of brakes, it's like stepping on egg shells, every movement has to be light else something will break.

It's not all about pulling power, it's about not letting 'the tail wag the dog', and here I believe American wins hands down. Oh, by the way, an LQ9 WILL develop more than 1000hp on a STOCK bottom end, (along with the LS2, LS7, 1uzfe, RB28 through RB36 and a few others)

Here is a favourite choice for a standard Toyota 4L V8 engine round here

[Cobra1racer]

They have come a long way since the T100, 4 banger standard optional v6. It's just a matter of time before you see the big stuff. And I'm sure they will have a turbo D. Um I think that the Niisan Skyline would spank that toy all day long. The 500+ ponies with a single turbo and an inline six at that. I have a vid if you want to see it spank the supra and other sports cars. I know guys with that supra motor in some old z cars as well. It is a nice motor. But Hp's don't pull, torque pulls.

[The Big Al]

The toyota is a half ton! The 4.30 gear you dont like would not work on a chevy 4 speed automatic. It would be WAY to low. It has to be a 6 speed automatic to work. The final drive ratio is higher on the toyota than the chevy because of the six speed auto even when using the 4.30 gear.



Well good old American HP does not need a 4:30 rear and a six speed!!!

It would burn the tires off!

[1BadAction]

The toyota is a half ton! The 4.30 gear you dont like would not work on a chevy 4 speed automatic. It would be WAY to low. It has to be a 6 speed automatic to work. The final drive ratio is higher on the toyota than the chevy because of the six speed auto even when using the 4.30 gear.

You guys who dont like the toyotas size from previuos years are right. They probably couldnt handle much in the towing dept. But the new toyota dwarfs the previous models and this will make a BIG difference in how it tows. Still it wont be able to tow like the bigger 3/4 and 1 ton domestic trucks. Their going for the market that sells the most trucks and thats in the 1/2 ton dept. Kurt

:rolleyes::rolleyes: a 6 speed automatic negates any advantage of a 4.30 gear. sure its 4.3, but instead of having a 20% power loss through the drivetrain, you have a 30% loss. slushbox.

Stryker, 10-15k between oil changes and no probems? unless they were changing filters every 3k and adding oil, you are full of sh1t. Its the most ignorant ass thing in the world to think that ANY mechanical piece of equipment will last over another under abuse like that. or does toyota make their engines out of some super secret japanese steel unobtanium composite material that uses dirt as a lubricant? :rolleyes: its better metal cause its japanese11!!1 right :rolleyes:

[Cobra1racer]

BMW's and the like go 15k between oil changes, per factory spec. Why cuz the use Mobil 1, and the mobil 1 filter. I put it in the wife's PT, it runs smoother and purs for a change. But the chevy gets it every 3,000 miles. Oh and the old dodge never had an oil change, it leaked a bunch. So on the 6 speed can you pic a gear. I don't think that the trany would last long towing some weight in 6th gear. Allison is good, had one in the Volvo class 8. It would break the tires loose with 40,000 pounds sitting on them, with out the interlock in and climbing a tall curb or the like.

[Cobra1racer]

Yea the 318 is a real motor. One engine 2 tranys and 2 rear ends,1979
D100. They don't build them like that any more.

[gotboostedvr6]

Um I think that the Niisan Skyline would spank that toy all day long. The 500+ ponies with a single turbo and an inline six at that. I have a vid if you want to see it spank the supra and other sports cars. I know guys with that supra motor in some old z cars as well. It is a nice motor. But Hp's don't pull, torque pulls.

Stock for stock they have the same 1/4 mile but the supra has a higher top end

The worlds fastest inline 6 stock block turbo door slammer is supra powered
not trying to argue but well the proofs in the pudding

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4kvG_EDRVk
6.57 213 mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wPkoSd0rCE&mode=related&search=
6.6 209 mph

The supra motor has a larger stroke than a skyline so its impossible for the skyline to make more tq

.........................SKYLINE:..........................SUPRA
BORE X Stroke____86.00mm x 73.70mm________ 86mm x 86mm
Rod Stroke ratio:___1.166____________________ 1
Displacement:_____2.8_______________________3.0
HP:______________280 hp___________________320 hp

The only advantage if you even take it as such is the skyline is awd but when your going this fast its only a handicap

[BullittBen]

There is no way in hell your brother was getting 18 miles per gallon pulling a 5000 plus pound car and trailer thru the mountains. It will never happen diesel or gas. I AM NOT a toyota lover and I never have owned one. I drive a 2000 F250 super duty 4x4 with a 7.3 diesel with minor mods with 170,000 miles that is dynoed at 292hp and 602 ft lbs of torque at the rear wheels. If you mod the new diesels with simple bolt ons, you can go over 400+ hp and 700 ft lbs of torque at the rear wheels and WAY above that if you want to. But were not talking diesels here.

Some numbers from Truck Trend on the chevy vs toyota 1/2 tons.

0-60 chevy 5.3 7.7 seconds
0-60 toyota 6.0 seconds
Quarter mile chevy 5.3 15.8 @89.1 Average fuel mileage thru tests 13.9 mpg
Quarter mile toyota 14.6 @ 93.6 Average fuel mileage thru tests 14.9 mpg

You guys might to read up on the toyota before you do any more posts. This might be a serious half ton.

Kurt

I knew someone would call liar, and they're always the people who own another type of truck. I would have never believed it either, so I don't blame you a bit, but this is why everyone in my family (Ford lovers and all) now own 99-07 Chevy/GMC's.

As far as oil changes, GM uses a monitoring system that calculates engine hours, miles, etc. I use it and usually go 8-10k between changes. Nothing but Mobil 1 full syn. I'm now over 100k, with $0 repairs. My Dad's 99 was treated the same way and has over 200k with 0 engine/drivetrain issues (or anything else but that one ABS module). It was still regularly pulling an 18' enclosed trailer hauling cars (not getting that good of mileage with the wind resistance of that trailer!) but still running and working like a champ. He sold it to a friend (to get an 07 2500 Duramax/Allison) and it's still rolling like new.

I know Toyotas have always been reliable, and if I would purchase a Japanese car, I wouldn't have a problem owning one. I just seriously doubt they can measure up, but we'll see if they can perform and last like this. The GM trucks are just beyond anything I would ever imagine if I didn't own one.

[Charlie M]

A little while ago my dad had to have a power window regulator put in his Buick. He showed me the regulator and it had made in japan on it. About the same time was considering buying his next car as a jap car, since they had jap parts in them anyways. I told him that would be a smart thing to do, since the jap parts tore up first, it was in his best interest to buy a car completly made in japan.

[Ted Stryker]

I'm sooo mad right now, I'm in a friggin' rage, you disagreed with Me, I'm really going off... Is that the response you were looking for..? If I would have known you had a different opinion, I would've stated 40,000 between changes... You should get a sex change back to being a chain smokin Bar whore to better fit your personallity for trying to stir crap, you miserable tub of ****.. I forgot to mention that your opinion wasn't important to Me... How long do you think a new Chevy will go before the change oil light comes on, I can verify that it's more than 10,000 miles a brand spank new engine with the factory oil fill... Engine service life target of these engines is 300,000 miles if I do recall correctly...

[The Big Al]

, I can verify that it's more than 10,000 miles a brand spank new engine with the factory oil fill...

Not gonna get into your rant!

But the OIL CHANGE LIGHT comes on at every 6k interval from last reset.

It only a mileage record.

Now, if you turn your key on and pump the gas like a old tractor before you start the engine you just reset the program.
Some still crank a car like that today and are resetting the PCM every time they crank the car.

Al

[The Big Al]

A little while ago my dad had to have a power window regulator put in his Buick. He showed me the regulator and it had made in japan on it. About the same time was considering buying his next car as a jap car, since they had jap parts in them anyways. I told him that would be a smart thing to do, since the jap parts tore up first, it was in his best interest to buy a car completly made in japan.

That is the Dumbest thing I have ever herd.:rolleyes:

[gotboostedvr6]

^ i was gonna say the same thing but didnt feel like typing it lol

[Ted Stryker]

{QUOTE} The beauty of the GMOLS is that it will automatically adjust the oil change interval based engine characteristics, driving habits and the climate in which the vehicle is operated. For instance, mild highway driving in a warm climate will maximize the interval between oil changes. Depending on the vehicle, this could be in excess of 7000 miles and as high as 12,000 miles. On the other hand, short trip driving in cold a climate may limit the oil change to 3000 miles or less. In general, most people that drive a combination of city and highway find that the GMOLS will indicate an oil change every 5000 to 6000 miles. Additionally, most people maintain consistent driving habits. Therefore, their mileage between oil changes will be consistent. Changes in climate will affect this somewhat. You can also find where it say's that it's NOT a mileage record, but rather a calculation based on engine revolutions, engine temperature, driving conditions etc...

[Cobra1racer]

Handy Cap? AWD is why Audi was kicked out of racing. It was an advantage. Skyline any day. But how amny Skylines are in the states, very few. Supra's on the other hand, a bunch. Why would a tuner in the states want to spend money on a Skyline when they have no customer base, unlike the supra.

[speedboats]

From what I know Skylines aren't in the States because they don't meet the legislative parameters put in place by those you vote for. If the AWD is a power sucking disadvantage, it would only be in a straight line, as the added traction everywhere else would be an advantage. Besides, AWD would mean a larger powertrain loss than 2WD, therefore to be running that close the skyline engine must be pretty damn strong, and the skyline engine's are more readily available, easier to tune, and more bullet proof than the supra. Having said all that, I'd rather have a 996 or Z06.

[JW]

Since 1994 I've owned 3 new toyota trucks and 3 new chevy trucks. Now, just because you're a bonafide GM man (whether made in Mexico or the states), I'll have to always buy toyota from now on.....LOLOL!!:D

[Cobra1racer]

996, dude come on. Go for the gusto and ask for a 935, oh yea. Or an old Ruff 993, last of the air cooled. Ruff 700+ ponies to the ground on pump gass with a flat 6. There is a guy on www.maxbimmer.com (http://www.maxbimmer.com) that has a sub 10 sec. chevy silverado, yes with vids to prove it. One more thing, the Gumball 3000, a couple of years ago. In tha race was this big boy with a ford focus svt AWD, basically a ralley car. This thing blew the doors of an Enzo, blistering fast.

[speedboats]

See your point about the 996, but it is still a beautiful and well engineered vehicle, although we are supposed to be talking about tow vehicles here, so maybe the Cayanne should be mentioned? Twin Turbo 4.5L V8, AWD, variable valve timing, the damn thing even lowers itself to the road as you speed up. Ugly but beautiful, all the performance you'd need out of the box... heh

[Cobra1racer]

You got that right.

[The Big Al]

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3256/internatinalxltzj8.png (http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript>setImgWidth();</SCRIPT>

[kay75]

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3256/internatinalxltzj8.png (http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript>setImgWidth();</SCRIPT>


heck ya that thing is better than all them yotas and chveys thats a real truck hook up chains to that and a yota or chevy and see what happens:D

[Ted Stryker]

I like those big Internationals, although I haven't one use for it... We'll be seeing those things pulling lawnmowers, and 4-wheelers before too long...

[dc96819]

Give them time and will all have toyotas:D

[A Fn Noob]

I have a 2000 Chevy 3/4 ton service van, 5.9L with locking rear differential. Weighs 7000 lbs or so. Dont need 4wd with weight on the back tires. I'll lock bumpers with any of those toyota trucks and drag you around like a ragetty-ann doll. All day long.

[Lockjaw]

I am happy some of you have had good luck with your chevys because I certainly did not. It was a rattle box POS that spent more time in the shop then it did on the road. It always made racket going over bumps for some reason, especially easing over a speed bump. Drove me nuts.

Mine made probably 10 trips to the dealer, GM corporate didn't care, they already had their money. So I traded it for a Tundra and never looked back. Yeah it doesn't get quite as good a mileage, but, it beats renting a car to get to work all the time.

I always like these "uninformed" comments too, like the new six speed is a slush box, get real. All the major manufacturers are going to 6 speed or more auto's.

That is just the typical "buy american" talking points, just like the liberals do to the republicans.

My money is going to buy something that doesn't have to go to the shop all the time. For me, unless something drastic happens, that means a Nissan or Toyota. Now if we are talking diesels, I would probably look at the new dodge.

[Cobra1racer]

Got Jet Fuel? My trany went out at oh about 65,000 miles. I guess that the 700r is a piece of chit. When the warrenty is off it I will get rid of it. And that would be next year. I did talk to a guy that has a Toy, and he has had problems with his AC, gotta have that when it hit's 115 degrees out side. Diesel's?? How about the twin turbo ford? Stop by Mc D's and suck out the greese and make your own fuel.

[A Fn Noob]

Hmm. I think GM has been making some damn good heavy-duty trucks and vans for a while now. Than van I mentioned above, has never seen a shop. Gas, tires, oil. 120,000+ miles of real abuse.

[Cobra1racer]

I have a 100,000 on mine. I have talked to several people tha have had to replace the 700r, more than once if you keep it long enough. Sorry but there is only one UPSTATE and that resides in NY. Just ask around. What about your breakes? I have 40,000 on mine. I don't want to pop a wheel off and look,I hate doing breaks. I have an 01, 4 wheel disk so should be easy. Tires? Yok's, will get 2 years out of them. Discout tire brand- 10,000 miles, junk junk junk!

[Cobra1racer]

Oh yea Nissan, Bad breaks. My brother has one. Guess they were using the weeny stuff off the pathfinder. He said the changed the whole system out with bigon's.

[The Big Al]

The 700R4 has not been made in years.

But you can purchase one from GM, or your local mechanic can purchase on threw a GM Powertrain Dealer and have a 3 yr 100,000 mile warranty.
And your mechanic can administer the warranty.

And it will cost less than 1300.00


Gm now has engines and transmissions at very competive prices with a 3 yr 100k warranty.

Most are 100% new. But they still want the core.

[Cobra1racer]

Yea came with a 3/36. And it's about over with. What did they put in last years model. I though they changed to a new trany in 07?

[The Big Al]

Yea came with a 3/36. And it's about over with. What did they put in last years model. I though they changed to a new trany in 07?

Allisons in heavy dutys and still using the 4L80 series transmissions.

I'm not in the loop of new. Just the powertrain and service area.

[A Fn Noob]

I have a 100,000 on mine. I have talked to several people tha have had to replace the 700r, more than once if you keep it long enough. Sorry but there is only one UPSTATE and that resides in NY. Just ask around. What about your breakes? I have 40,000 on mine. I don't want to pop a wheel off and look,I hate doing breaks. I have an 01, 4 wheel disk so should be easy. Tires? Yok's, will get 2 years out of them. Discout tire brand- 10,000 miles, junk junk junk!

There's an UPSTATE SC also, bud. And a low-country. Just ask around. But anyway.... :)

Yeah Ive done brake pads, transmission oil, all reg. maintenance crap myself. Tires, on the 4th or 5th set. I stay with michelins except the past 2 sets are a new type of michelin LT tire that have lasted longer than the others I forget the particulars of what they're called.

[Cobra1racer]

Guess every state could have an upstate, but the real one is in NY. Had Michelins on a mini van years ago, not bad but they did change tread design after a year or so. Might look into those in a few months, I'm getting low on tread.

[baja200merk]

Over the last few years TOYota has came out with all these numbers and commercials, oh we tow this and tow that better than ALL the comp!!! I farm 2000acres and have 500 head of cattle! I do know my trucks. If you want to pull a bass boat or even a big cruiser to the lake yea the TOYota will do the job(aka not as good as a chevy!!!!) Not speaking numbers speaking REAL world. Would I hook to my gooseneck and haul 25,000# of cattle to the yards with a TOYota Heck No. Would I hook to it with a 2500 chevy with the LITTLE 5.3 Vortec any day of the week. If they want to prove something give me a TOYota for a week Ill Kindly break it in half for them. Keep the TOYS for the little boys when the big jobs need done I will kindly sport a bowtie!!!!!

lol #1 its a 2500 vs a tundra... why wouldnt you tow it with the tundra? it would get it there faster ;)

and whats wrong wit a 430 ratio? they have a 6 speed to make up the difference in rpm on the highway... Your bashing them for building a more economical drive train.

[The Big Al]

lol #1 its a 2500 vs a tundra... why wouldnt you tow it with the tundra? it would get it there faster ;)

and whats wrong wit a 430 ratio? they have a 6 speed to make up the difference in rpm on the highway... Your bashing them for building a more economical drive train.

1. The weight and cargo and towing numbers it's a 3/4 to 1 ton truck!

2. 4:30 gears and a six speed would make a GM or Ford or Dodge rock it's world!

3. The Toyota truck in it's adds com pair it self to the standard engine package to the base 1/2 ton American trucks!

When comparing to a truck in it's same weight class it can not com pair!

You do not by a 1/2 ton truck to do a max out towing at 10,000 pounds!

And the Toyota is a 3/4 to 1 ton truck by it's class.

Fill it up with 5 gals of gas, and all the rest!

You will walk further with a Toyota! BIG TIME!

[Charlie M]

Tow something with that Toyota and you will find out all about that sludge problem Toyota is having big time. Massive recalls this year for Toyota.

and so good on gas that Toyota is;

Chevy Silverado 2WD (315HP V8): 16/22 mpg
Chevy Silverado 4WD (315HP V8): 16/20 mpg

Toyota Tundra 2WD (271HP V8): 15/18 mpg
Toyota Tundra 4WD (271HP V8): 15/18 mpg

Chevy Silverado with 6.0L VortecMax: 4x4-15/19 EPA

Toyota Tundra 5.7L iForce V8: 4x4-14/18

What about that stuff that Toyota is using to cheat in Nascar, will it improve their gas milage:D

But, I guess that when you hop out of a 10 year old Chevy with 150,000 miles you could say a brand new Toyota is nice.

[baja200merk]

2. 4:30 gears and a six speed would make a GM or Ford or Dodge rock it's world!


Your might be right, if you bought a brand new american truck and tore the brand new tranny out of it swaped it for a 6 spd, regear'd etc. (void every warranty on your brand new truck :eek: ) you know what, you might be right you would probably have a decent truck at that point.:rolleyes: i would rather just buy a toyota cause they give you all this good junk from the factory, with a big ass waranty :cool: :D ;)

Kevin :(

[The Big Al]

.:rolleyes: i would rather just buy a toyota cause they give you all this good junk from the factory, with a big ass waranty :cool: :D ;)

Kevin :(

WRONG ABOUT TOYOTA"S WARRANTY!
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/warranty/images/hd_warranty.gif
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=544 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=bggray noWrap width=1><SPACER type="block" height="1" width="1"></SPACER></TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width=542 border=0><TBODY><TR class=bgcolor01><TD class=body02B vAlign=center align=middle height=19>COVERAGES</TD></TR><TR class=bgwhite><TD class=body01>Basic: 36 months/36,000 miles (all components other than normal wear and maintenance items).</TD></TR><TR class=bggray><TD class=body01>Powertrain: 60 months/60,000 miles (engine, transmission/transaxle, front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive, seatbelts and airbags).</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

GM Warranty
NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY
GM vehicles registered in the U.S.A. are covered for 3 years/36,000 miles (whichever comes first). The complete vehicle is covered, including tires, towing to your nearest Chevrolet dealership and cosmetic corrosion resulting from defects. Repairs will be made to correct any vehicle defect, and most warranty repairs will be made at no charge. In addition, rust-through corrosion will be covered for 6 years/100,000 miles (whichever comes first) and powertrain will be covered for 5 years/100,000 miles (whichever comes first). See dealer for details.

[baja200merk]

yea but if you put a six speed in that truck and a set of gears what kinda warranty you gonna have :D

kevin

[us1ss]

The largest toyota dealer in the Jacksonville area gives a lifetime warranty with all purchases. This warranty is good nationwide at any Toyota Dealer to the original owner. If you drive em until they die this is a great deal! If you trade every year or two it doesn't matter. Toyota resale is very good regardless of warranty.
On another note a warranty is only as good as the dealership working on the vehicle. As Tommy Boy said I'll give you a warranty on a piece of shi# but in the end you still have a piece of shi#

[Pro300x24LD]

I bought a toyota once. 1992 with the GREAT 22r series motor.

I drive a chevy......

I bought the toyota with 125,000 Miles on it.

I have bought chevy's with (78 chev 200+), (84 chevy 200+), (91 Chevy 177,000) (current 1999 chevy 146,000 now at 155,000)

My dad put 175,000 trouble free miles on a 1993 Fullsize 2 door tahoe. No major mechanical failures other then exhaust, ujoints, and brakes.

I put a new timing chain on the yota right after I bought it because the guides were worn out, 2 months later I spun 2 of the 4 rod bearings and rebuilt the engine. The cam lobes were warn 1/8" to 1/4" down. The ignitor also went bad ($350). I sold the truck immediately.

I have never needed to take apart any of my chevy motors....I have replaced one fuel pump (84). One O2 Sensor (99), I also used all of my trucks other then the toyota and my current (99) to run a lawn care company towing 5,000 pounds plus each and every day 6 months out of the year. Further more I swapped one ton axles into the 78 and 84 chevy's and ran 35 and 36 inch tires adding to the stress of towing. My yota never had anything hooked to the back of it. I only got to drive that truck about 4,000 miles in owning it for a year.

My current truck tows my 24 foot boat perfectly fine, stops well and has also hauled 33 80pound bags of 'crete from Home depot home, etcetcetcetc.

GM builds a quality truck that gets the job done, I just wish I could get a bit better mileage, I am at about 15 in the cold weather.

[dspencer]

I had a 22RE fuel injected motor in a 5 speed 86 toyota long bed. I put 240k miles on it, mostly pulling my bass boat. That plus a few 6000 pulls with a fireplace trailer. I replaced the starter contacts. A radiator(the replacement was too small that eventually heated the engine enough to blow the headgasket at 240k, my fault). The clutch at 170k or so.
I got 26 hwy mileage unloaded, 18 pulling the bass boat. During the summer I used to call the AC compressor my boost button.

It was rated as a one ton. Put 8, 16 foot garage doors on the rack many many times. That was without a doubt the roughest riding truck I have ever driven. I wish they still sold them. I'd sell my Cummins and go small again. I might be able to get 20mpg with my Allison.

[Bruster]

Since 1994 I've owned 3 new toyota trucks and 3 new chevy trucks. Now, just because you're a bonafide GM man (whether made in Mexico or the states), I'll have to always buy toyota from now on.....LOLOL!!:D

I'll guess you never thought of anyone else but yourself when you bought that Jap crap.
JW You live in Michigan, the once proud auto capitol of the world. We've all been hit pretty hard by the downturn in American automobile business, and you have the balls to brag about buying Jap cars, who in turn send ALL of the profits they make back to Japan. Who's going to pay the taxes all the GM and Ford plants and suppliers were paying that helps support our schools, roads, our American way of life? Do you think Toyota is investing in U.S. infrastructure in any way? Don't think so. They're a lot smarter than that. They built plants in the USA with no tax, or very low property tax base rate deals to bring them here, they're taking care of themselves, they could care less about us. I hope your ass is well covered because it's going to get worse, much worse here, and you buying Toyotas quite simply fuels the fire. As I recall the last time I was thru your area in SW Michigan it didn't look like a hotbed if industral activity. Enjoy your Toyotas, enjoy your Hondas. This is short term gratification with long term ramifications.

[punkinhead]

Geez where to start, there is so much japaganda out there, you need waders to sort it all out! My current favorite is the big seesaw ad for the tundra. They fail to mention that the Silverado stops over ten feet shorter, with our little brake rotors. They need those huge rotors to stop that huge POS. People get so excited at the Japanese when they open a factory here. They are great for driving down the cost of labor. In our industrial park, which is comprised of over 50 companies, most foreign at that. The average hire in time is about 18 months. That is 18 months of working for a temp agency, with no health insurance, to become eligible to hire in. Thats over a year working next to guys making 15 per hour, just for a chance to get in to the company. The companies do provide local jobs that help our local economy, however all of the company profit heads right out of the country. In addition 48% of toyotas are still imported from Japan. I sell chevy's for a living, our products are the best hands down. In my entire driving career, I have only owned Chevrolets. Toyota and the rest can all go home, as far as I am concerned.

[1BadAction]

japaganda

awesome new word. :D

[Checkmate-Chris]

I've owned Chev after Chev. Never had a major problem.

We've had S10's, Sierras, Silverados, C10's, Blazers, Envoys you name it. We haven't dropped an engine or tranny yet.

I'll stick with my GM trucks thank you very much. :)

[JW]

Here's a hypothetical (or prophetic) question: Now that Mercedes owns the Dodge trucks, how is that different from buying a Toyota truck? Let's see:

German owned, Canada built, Dodge truck.
Japanese owned, American built, Toyota truck.

Wait, which one is more American? Or less?

Ok, next: When Toyota buys GM and Honda buys Ford, which truck brand will we be buying then?

In other words, does it really matter whether you buy an American Toyota built truck, built by American workers on American soil in Princeton Indiana, or you buy a Chevy branded Avalanche built in Mexico by Mexican workers? I did both. Felt kinda the same really............................:rolleyes:

[JW]

OH, and another thing:

My 2003 150 Johnson is a BRP product. Canadian owned, American built. Am I a bad guy for choosing a boat with a 'foriegn' brand of motor?????? :D

Another case of American workers building on American soil a 'foriegn' brand. Same as Toyota and Honda, EH? ;) Would I feel better buying a Mercury if it was built in China?

[Bruster]

Here's a hypothetical (or prophetic) question: Now that Mercedes owns the Dodge trucks, how is that different from buying a Toyota truck? Let's see:

German owned, Canada built, Dodge truck.
Japanese owned, American built, Toyota truck.

Wait, which one is more American? Or less?

Ok, next: When Toyota buys GM and Honda buys Ford, which truck brand will we be buying then?

In other words, does it really matter whether you buy an American Toyota built truck, built by American workers on American soil in Princeton Indiana, or you buy a Chevy branded Avalanche built in Mexico by Mexican workers? I did both. Felt kinda the same really............................:rolleyes:


It's not where the cars are made. It's where the profits go. Need I explain that to you? In Japan business is war. In case you haven't noticed we are not winning. Every Toyota, Honda etc is another economic casualty to the well being of all Americans. Be proud when you climb in that Toyota knowing you cost another American a job......:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[JW]

It's not where the cars are made. It's where the profits go. Need I explain that to you? In Japan business is war. In case you haven't noticed we are not winning. Every Toyota, Honda etc is another economic casualty to the well being of all Americans. Be proud when you climb in that Toyota knowing you cost another American a job......:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Bruster, now think about this. The Japanese have replaced many of the lost American jobs as they've built plants in AMERICA employing AMERICAN workers, while your beloved GM has killed off AMERICAN jobs by building vehicles in Canada and Mexico. Sorry buddy, but I'll support the AMERICAN worker and his family before I'll support a foreign worker. The profit on a vehicle IS NOT all there is to a vehicle. You aren't thinking about the guy or gal that's building it, and supporting his/her local economy with his/her wages. I think you've got it backwards when you say buying a Princeton Indiana Toyota is costing an American job, when an American built it.

Answer me this: How does buying my Mexican made Chevy Avalanche save an American auto worker job?

[Bruster]

Bruster, now think about this. The Japanese have replaced many of the lost American jobs as they've built plants in AMERICA employing AMERICAN workers, while your beloved GM has killed off AMERICAN jobs by building vehicles in Canada and Mexico. Sorry buddy, but I'll support the AMERICAN worker and his family before I'll support a foreign worker. The profit on a vehicle IS NOT all there is to a vehicle. You aren't thinking about the guy or gal that's building it, and supporting his/her local economy with his/her wages. I think you've got it backwards when you say buying a is costing an American job, when an American built it.

Answer me this: How does buying my Mexican made Chevy Avalanche save an American auto worker job?

Same shallow answer everyone that buys a foreign car uses. Does that come in the U.S. version of the owner's manual? or is that what they tell you in the showroom?
Now tell me where all the profits go? Beyond the wages that the Princeton Indiana Toyota facility pays the money stops flowing in to the U.S. real fast. EVERYTHING the Japanese do in America is focused about bringing as much money back to Japan as they possibly can. No exceptions. Exploit every opportunity.
Your "wages" story is what you believe, you're a member a whole group of "sheep" that contend buying a foreign car in America is in the best interest our country, or at the very least not a detriment. Again business in Japan is war. We are losing..

[JW]

You still didn't answer my question.

How does buying my Mexican made Chevy Avalanche save an American auto worker job?

Shallow answer you say, informed answer everyone else says..................

[Bruster]

You still didn't answer my question.

How does buying my Mexican made Chevy Avalanche save an American auto worker job?

Shallow answer you say, informed answer everyone else says..................

.....everyone else, oh, you mean the informed sheep with blinders who refuse to see.

[1BadAction]

You still didn't answer my question.

How does buying my Mexican made Chevy Avalanche save an American auto worker job?

Shallow answer you say, informed answer everyone else says..................


do you have any clue about the way things are assembled in the auto industry? because most of that truck is assembled and cast in the us, and the profits go back to GM, a US company. Keep buying that Japanese garbage and MORE JOBS will need to be shipped out of country to keep the price point low enough to turn a profit.

"baa baa" whats that? its the sound of sheep selling out US manufacturing jobs one car at a time.

[Scott Gilmore]

Who cares.............the new Chevy 1500-3500 body "style" looks like a Toyota anyway !! Scott :D

[JW]

LOL Scott!! Just make sure nobody buys a new BRP Johnson/Evinrude, all those American workers sending profits back to Canada....:rolleyes:

[Checkmate-Chris]

Guys,

Up here Toyota (in Canada) anything costs way more than a GM anything. And the financing on Toyotas is sick.

So for me, there is no way I'm going to lease a Toyota Tundra for $700 Plus a month when I can get a GM for $550 loaded.

Personally, I just don't see the attraction of Toyota anything. I don't like the way they look and I don't buy the argument that they're more reliable. I've had too many GM trucks over the years that never had a serious warranty claim to convince me otherwise.

[1BadAction]

as always, gilmore is on crack and now JW agrees. I guess if you cant beat them, make fun of them on non-tangible points. :rolleyes:

[JW]

Lol!! ;)

[mr_velocity]

Why do I really care where the profits go? I just buy the stock and bring the value right back to me here in America. Maybe if the shareholders held the a$$holes that ran GM accountable this wouldn't even be a discussion.
Then GM takes their revenues and invests in factories in other countries when the evil Jap companies invest in factories here, not only creating jobs for autoworkers but also for many other sectors as well. As for the "profits" where do they really go, shareholders, the bank, squandered away with fat cat bonuses?
Toy builds some of the same models both here and they are also imported from Japan. The cars built in Japan do not share all the same parts as the same exact model that is built here. I'm such a bad American cause I won't let Wagoner bend me over.

As for the toys, my damn piece of junk 14 year old SR5 pickup just developed an oil leak at the valve cover gasket. What a POS, all these years and other than oil changes I have to deal with this :rolleyes:

As for towing, Freightliner FL-70 with a Mercedes diesel and Allison 6 speed is the ONLY way to go.

[Scott Gilmore]

as always, gilmore is on crack and now JW agrees. I guess if you cant beat them, make fun of them on non-tangible points. :rolleyes:

Well.............at least the new Chevy/Toyota isn't as ugly as the Nissan (close though). Scott :(

[obrien]

mm Lets see, if toyota is so great why have they already recalled over 533,000 vehicles this year alone, 1.76 million last year and 2.2 mil the year before. Yeah thats damn good quality there. Just face it, yota sucks ass and their trucks are ****. Lets see one handle some real work.

And for those wanting to quote 1/4 mile times, I will take a stock f150 lightning with 380 hp, and run mid to high 13s all day. Better yet, put a pulley and tune on it to run 12s. Lets see the tundra do that. Oh yeah, and the lightning can still tow plenty and haul enough for most people.

[Redneck]

What a lot of arguing over BS. We dont care about how much money rich people are making, we want American workers in jobs. That being said, I used to be a Chevy guy untill I got a Cummins. My latest 1 ton 4 door truck, with a Cummins and a 6 speed stick (slushboxes are for cripples and people who cant drive) and its awsome. 27mpg, 600+hp, I never have to downshift towing my 20,000lb Camper, I spank Vettes and Vipers like they are nothing, and have only changed the oil once in 40,000+ miles. As soon as I got it, I put a bypass oil filter on it and changed the oil. Every 10,000 miles I send some off to be analized and it always comes back good. Oil is so clean that you can barely see it on the stick. Oh yea, I turn 14-16mpg with the camper behind me. And how many other companies have the same # of motors over 1,000,000 miles? I have personaly owned 2 Cummins, and a good friend who runs hot shot for a living and bought his new in 93 has 1,700,000+ on his. Still puts food on the table for his family, so why replace it? Only thing thats ever been done is oil changes and clutches. Maybe a turbo but I cant remember.

[speedboats]

American's in jobs?

This might be a touchy subject, but isn't something like 80 - 90% of the Toyota made in the US? While how much of the Ford, Dodge and Chevs are actually made in the US as opposed to in Canada and Mexico??? Buy a Chev, keep Canadians in jobs!!!

[Redneck]

I was agreeing with that. Who care where the big shots are, either way their money will end up in the hands of crooked politicians, US or Japan. The workers are the ones who count. But, when I got my truck, the only thing that mattered was that I got my Cummins. Only way it would matter is if Chevy and or Ford ran them too. But, I hate Ford, and lost my respect for Chevy when they made their trucks look like the Avalanch.

[obrien]

There is nothing american made about a toyota. It is assembled here but thats it. The only reason they began assembling the trucks here is to get around the import tarrifs.

[Redneck]

There is nothing american made about a toyota. It is assembled here but thats it. The only reason they began assembling the trucks here is to get around the import tarrifs.
At least they are keeping Americans working, putting the trucks together. Some guy making $5 a day puts Chevys together now. Most of them anyways. There have been a lot of layoffs at the local chevy plant. More jobs moved out of the country. I dont like to buy from a company who cares more about profit than the workers they lay off. Toyota could do the same thing, and sell their trucks cheaper and still make profit, but they dont. The japs believe in giving back because they know that sooner or later, the "american made" cars will have all their parts labled in spanish. And with the bill that bush has been pushing, there has been a lot more hostility against anything/anyone from mexico. Wont be long and I know some workers at GM will get laid off to hire illegal's at 1/4 of the pay, and they will torch the place. Its happening. I really think Bush is too stupid to see what he is about to make happen. I now think that bush has stooped lower than old Honest (yea, right) Abe. I do believe this will lead to yet another civil war. First one was because the government screwed farmers, now they are screwing blue coller workers.

Oh yea, I had a Toyota once. 03 Tacoma. 7 months and I got rid of it. I got dents from bug splats. Total lightweight hunk of crap, but you couldnt kill the motor. Buy it was a useless truck. didnt tow, wouldnt carry anything in the bed, and got crap fuel milage. My 1-ton gets TWICE the fuel milage.

[1BadAction]

the only trucks assembled in mexico are avalanches and some colorados/h3s. :rolleyes: no matter, GM sources 70 to 90% of their north american vehicles from american made parts, which is more than any other manufacturer. FACT. they have a company policy of BUY AMERICAN. 90%+ of the machine tools, welders, CNC equipment, etc etc, is all american built. not to mention the powertrain assemblys, casting facilitys, and everything else that goes along with building a car is right here. (like making a mold for a plastic AC knob a certain way mid production run so some cry baby fags will stop bitching about the "feel")

Now, keep on buying that Japanese sh1t, and the domestic car companys will start shipping more jobs to cheap labor areas to compete. the japs believe in giving back, because they don't have crooked ass hole union leaders and politicians (among others) to pay. oh yea, and the pensions that GM pays to retirees is MORE than toyota pays ALL THEIR CURRENT employees. $2000 dollars each car before its even assembled.

i like all these people that scream how patriotic they are, then when it comes time to put their money up, they all of the sudden come up with some excuse to justify themselves. whatever, have fun selling your country out.

[Redneck]

the only trucks assembled in mexico are avalanches and some colorados/h3s. :rolleyes: no matter, GM sources 70 to 90% of their north american vehicles from american made parts, which is more than any other manufacturer. FACT. they have a company policy of BUY AMERICAN. 90%+ of the machine tools, welders, CNC equipment, etc etc, is all american built. not to mention the powertrain assemblys, casting facilitys, and everything else that goes along with building a car is right here. (like making a mold for a plastic AC knob a certain way mid production run so some cry baby fags will stop bitching about the "feel")

Now, keep on buying that Japanese sh1t, and the domestic car companys will start shipping more jobs to cheap labor areas to compete. the japs believe in giving back, because they don't have crooked ass hole union leaders and politicians (among others) to pay. oh yea, and the pensions that GM pays to retirees is MORE than toyota pays ALL THEIR CURRENT employees. $2000 dollars each car before its even assembled.

i like all these people that scream how patriotic they are, then when it comes time to put their money up, they all of the sudden come up with some excuse to justify themselves. whatever, have fun selling your country out.

I drive a Dodge. If Chevy had the Cummins instead, I would own a Chevy. If Nissan had the Cummins, I would have a Nissan. I could care less about the truck, I want a Cummins diesel, and thats it. Only motor worth a damn to me. My motor was built in Texas too. Just an FYI, It was the Union that made GM buy tools that are American made. After September 11th, because of "losses" Chevy was allowed to break the contract they had and buy cheaper equipment made over seas. Unions have spent years trying to keep American companys buying American. Unions do what they can to keep companies from moving overseas to save money as well. But, because some ragheads flew planes into buildings, they gave up wat to much power, and GM is making more overseas plants. Unions also have spent yearskeeping GM, Ford and Dodge from hiring illegals. The company doesnt care, whatever is cheaper works for them.

I used to be the most dyed in the wool Chevy guy you would ever meet, untill I ended up involved with some of the union vs. company crap. Spend a while as a mediator between the unions and companies, you will learn who the scum is. After dealing with Chevy and Ford (and I almost got involved in the Ford vs. Navistar suit over the new powerchoke, all fords f-up, navistar did nothing wrong) I decided I would never buy another new car or truck from either of them. I watched Chevy try to fire a guy because he bought his dad a Mustang (old mans deam car, but never could afford one) then they "forgot" to put him back on payroll for 3 months. Sorry, I wanted to knock teeth out of the company lawyers head. Ford broke several contracts, then Clinton got a wire transfer from them and told them he was giving ford a pardon. Nowhere near the problems with Mopar, but they had plenty themselves. Now, let see how the japs keep unions out of their shops. They take care of their employees. Thats it. Give them a fair wage, decent benefits, and way more room. American companies are just looking for ways to close their doors in the US and more to pakistan. Trust me there. And, they all try to tell you they are for the American worker, but its a lie. EVERY SINGLE auto maker is just out to make more money. PERIOD.

Personaly, I wouldnt own another Toyota, mine was junk, and didnt do anything well. Only reason my motorcycles are Jap is because there isnt an American bike that has the same speed, power, reliability and handling to be competitive in racing. Sorry, but my 03 GSXR 1000 has 128,000 miles on it, and I havent even replaced the clutch. It has been raced, stunted, and I have even tried to blow it up, and it still runs great. Show me an american bike that cost less than 10k new that would weigh less than 400lbs, have more than 150hp, and take my abuse without a whimper. I used to ride harleys and buells, but not anymore.

I dont have a thing in the world against you buying American. I encourage it. But, do your research. How many times have charges been brought againts DELCO for claiming a part was made in the US, yet the part in the box was labled as having been made elsewhere. Over 7,000 times when I got out of that stuff in 02.

[Redneck]

the only trucks assembled in mexico are avalanches and some colorados/h3s. :rolleyes: no matter, GM sources 70 to 90% of their north american vehicles from american made parts, which is more than any other manufacturer. FACT. they have a company policy of BUY AMERICAN. 90%+ of the machine tools, welders, CNC equipment, etc etc, is all american built. not to mention the powertrain assemblys, casting facilitys, and everything else that goes along with building a car is right here. (like making a mold for a plastic AC knob a certain way mid production run so some cry baby fags will stop bitching about the "feel")

Now, keep on buying that Japanese sh1t, and the domestic car companys will start shipping more jobs to cheap labor areas to compete. the japs believe in giving back, because they don't have crooked ass hole union leaders and politicians (among others) to pay. oh yea, and the pensions that GM pays to retirees is MORE than toyota pays ALL THEIR CURRENT employees. $2000 dollars each car before its even assembled.

i like all these people that scream how patriotic they are, then when it comes time to put their money up, they all of the sudden come up with some excuse to justify themselves. whatever, have fun selling your country out.
Oh yea, who makes the Duramax for Chevy? Isuzu. Are they an American company? No. Isuzu is in charge Chevys medium and heavy duty trucks. Yup, an American company put a others in charge because they were better at it.

[Pro300x24LD]

I had a 22RE fuel injected motor in a 5 speed 86 toyota long bed. I put 240k miles on it, mostly pulling my bass boat. That plus a few 6000 pulls with a fireplace trailer. I replaced the starter contacts. A radiator(the replacement was too small that eventually heated the engine enough to blow the headgasket at 240k, my fault). The clutch at 170k or so.
I got 26 hwy mileage unloaded, 18 pulling the bass boat. During the summer I used to call the AC compressor my boost button.

It was rated as a one ton. Put 8, 16 foot garage doors on the rack many many times. That was without a doubt the roughest riding truck I have ever driven. I wish they still sold them. I'd sell my Cummins and go small again. I might be able to get 20mpg with my Allison.cough bull****, cough

[Pro300x24LD]

You still didn't answer my question.

How does buying my Mexican made Chevy Avalanche save an American auto worker job?

Shallow answer you say, informed answer everyone else says..................
You need to get passed the people who assemble the vehicles and where it is assembled that is such a small part of it. Look at who supplies the parts, who designs and engineers the parts, where those people live, where they shop, what small business they support, etc. The trickle down effect is huge. Take a simple economics class.....you will learn a lot.

The LOCAL economic impact from the big three is unelievable. The big three in turn keeps numerous suppliers in business, who have their own suppliers, who have their own suppliers, all the way down to 2 and 3 man shops. ALL of those people spend money on every day items, hobbies, travel, etc. As all of these people are losing their jobs, everywhere they spent money is struggling because you bought a toyota.....HOWEVER Toyota, and their suppliers in Japan and their local coffee shops are doing great, because you bought a toyota.

[Pro300x24LD]

Wow, I just finished reading page 6 and 7

GET OVER the rich guys who work for the auto company, and think about where they spend THEIR MONEY!!

Do you own a small business? Golf Course? Have a furniture store?

Not in Michigan anymore...why? Cuz the auto industry is struggling and people are losing their jobs, causing those types of places to move out of state.....perfect example, VICIOUS POWERBOATS right here on this board. I believe he mentioned his wife lost her job, probably due to a cut that had to be made in Michigan, because of struggling manufacturing. He also probably has not sold as many boats as he has in the past. Why you ask? Probably because Big Three, Tier One, Tier Two, Tier Three, and everyday business are dropping like flies around here, as a direct result of the US automakers struggling.

These are the people who are affected when you buy that kick ass toyota.

[1BadAction]

Wow, I just finished reading page 6 and 7

GET OVER the rich guys who work for the auto company, and think about where they spend THEIR MONEY!!

Do you own a small business? Golf Course? Have a furniture store?

Not in Michigan anymore...why? Cuz the auto industry is struggling and people are losing their jobs, causing those types of places to move out of state.....perfect example, VICIOUS POWERBOATS right here on this board. I believe he mentioned his wife lost her job, probably due to a cut that had to be made in Michigan, because of struggling manufacturing. He also probably has not sold as many boats as he has in the past. Why you ask? Probably because Big Three, Tier One, Tier Two, Tier Three, and everyday business are dropping like flies around here, as a direct result of the US automakers struggling.

These are the people who are affected when you buy that kick ass toyota.

thats the liberal way of thinking. they have no clue what "trickle down" economics are. liberals think "Do anything you want because as long as it doesnt directly affect anyone else its ok." I was 6 when Regan was finishing his second term and even I understand what he was doing... last president that was worthy of being a leader of the US, IMO.

[Pro300x24LD]

thats the liberal way of thinking. they have no clue what "trickle down" economics are. liberals think "Do anything you want because as long as it doesnt directly affect anyone else its ok." I was 6 when Regan was finishing his second term and even I understand what he was doing... last president that was worthy of being a leader of the US, IMO.
Look at that, you make a "look in the mirror and think about the real facts" comment about the subject and all the import lovers disappear.

[JW]

Interesting story. Happened this past weekend. Thought you all would get a kick out of it.

Good buddy of mine, co-worker, fellow boating nut, former Detroit resident, has been dreaming of buying a diesel dodge for years. He's a dodge boy, but also owns Chevy and ford. The new 6.7 version of the Cummings had him drooling. Prices are WAY down on dodge trucks, and two of his vehicles are dying. Off to the dodge dealer to drive his dream truck!

He went there twice during the week and drove a particular truck. Dealer working price down and down for him. He liked the truck, looked good in resale red. Dodge ALWAYS looks good in red ;) . Last Saturday rolled around, time to go back to the dealer for final pricing and buy the truck. He called me while I was out in the driveway working on one of the boats, and I asked him to go drive the new Tundra double cab TRD 4X4 5.7 as a comparison. I wanted his opinion of the comparison, as I've never driven the Cummings dodge 2500. Never driven the new Tundra either. Even though I have a previous gen Tundra, I'm more of a Chevy guy.

I don't hear from him for over 3 hours. I'm starting to wonder what's going on. My cell phone rings. He's still at the Toyota dealer. I'm like 'What?' He says 'Yep, I'm buying the Tundra'. I couldn't believe it. I almost feel guilty for telling him to go take a look and compare for me!

So what was the deal? His wife. Everything in life is a compromise. According to him, the wife liked the Tundra a LOT more than the 2500 Dodge. The Tundra was just big enough for HIS needs, and just small enough for HER needs. Compromise.

According to the so called 'experts', women make or influence something like 75% of car purchasing decisions in America. What didn't she like about the Dodge? It sat too high and it drove too much like a truck. The 4 wheel drive is a mechanical lever instead of an easy electric knob. What didn't he like about the Tundra? Nothing really.

[1BadAction]

wow, if I ever become that pussy whipped, please someone kill me.

thanks.

[Scott Gilmore]

Interesting story. Happened this past weekend. Thought you all would get a kick out of it.

Good buddy of mine, co-worker, fellow boating nut, former Detroit resident, has been dreaming of buying a diesel dodge for years. He's a dodge boy, but also owns Chevy and ford. The new 6.7 version of the Cummings had him drooling. Prices are WAY down on dodge trucks, and two of his vehicles are dying. Off to the dodge dealer to drive his dream truck!

He went there twice during the week and drove a particular truck. Dealer working price down and down for him. He liked the truck, looked good in resale red. Dodge ALWAYS looks good in red ;) . Last Saturday rolled around, time to go back to the dealer for final pricing and buy the truck. He called me while I was out in the driveway working on one of the boats, and I asked him to go drive the new Tundra double cab TRD 4X4 5.7 as a comparison. I wanted his opinion of the comparison, as I've never driven the Cummings dodge 2500. Never driven the new Tundra either. Even though I have a previous gen Tundra, I'm more of a Chevy guy.

I don't hear from him for over 3 hours. I'm starting to wonder what's going on. My cell phone rings. He's still at the Toyota dealer. I'm like 'What?' He says 'Yep, I'm buying the Tundra'. I couldn't believe it. I almost feel guilty for telling him to go take a look and compare for me!

So what was the deal? His wife. Everything in life is a compromise. According to him, the wife liked the Tundra a LOT more than the 2500 Dodge. The Tundra was just big enough for HIS needs, and just small enough for HER needs. Compromise.

According to the so called 'experts', women make or influence something like 75% of car purchasing decisions in America. What didn't she like about the Dodge? It sat too high and it drove too much like a truck. The 4 wheel drive is a mechanical lever instead of an easy electric knob. What didn't he like about the Tundra? Nothing really.

HMMMMMMMMMMM, sounds like he made a BAD choice that he'll have to live with for a while !! Scott :eek: :(

[Redneck]

Yea, bad choice unless he doesnt tow much. He still gave up 5-9mpg, and that aint worth it in my book.

[Redneck]

I re-read that. U mean people want push button 4wd? Wow, everyone I know hates them. Hit 4wd in a Chevy during winter in Canada, see what happens. Nothing. Takes forever to engage. Some people will pay more for something is yet another wiring problem waiting to happen, and, as a bonus, might even get stranded somewhere because it fails. Good choice.

[Pro300x24LD]

I re-read that. U mean people want push button 4wd? Wow, everyone I know hates them. Hit 4wd in a Chevy during winter in Canada, see what happens. Nothing. Takes forever to engage.

I take it you live in a cold weather climate and have experience with this right?

UP_ROKTOY, as in I lived in michigans Upper Peninsula for 5 years......My truck took no longer to engage in cold weather as it does in warm weather.

Even with the shift on the fly it takes a second to engage on the chevy's because they don't spin the drivetrain all the time, but I've never had a problem with the 92 or 93 bazer my dad had, or the current truck that I have now.....waiting 5 seconds for it to engage MAX is not that big of a deal really.

[Pro300x24LD]

JW your buddy sounds like a p u s s y

[Redneck]

I take it you live in a cold weather climate and have experience with this right?

UP_ROKTOY, as in I lived in michigans Upper Peninsula for 5 years......My truck took no longer to engage in cold weather as it does in warm weather.

Even with the shift on the fly it takes a second to engage on the chevy's because they don't spin the drivetrain all the time, but I've never had a problem with the 92 or 93 bazer my dad had, or the current truck that I have now.....waiting 5 seconds for it to engage MAX is not that big of a deal really.
Does it engage right though? Dont know about the newer trucks, but Chevy used to use heat to enengage the front axle. When you flip the switch, or turn the knob, it sends power to it. It gets hot, the fluid in side expands when it gets hot and pushes on a rod that locks the front axle. Ive seen them fail in 60 degree weather. Ive seen some refuse to work when it gets colder than 50. If you cross streams, that cools them off too much and kills your front drive. Some work fine, but most Ive seen need to be replaced every year or 2. Ive seen some that were original and work fine more than 10 years old. When replacing one with a new part from GM, I had to send 4 back to get one that worked. Better to convert to a cable system. Plus, Ive seen the shift servos on push button 4x4 systems leave a truck in high and low gear at the same time. Why not use a reliable shift lever? Cheaper and doesnt fail as easy. Although Im from Texas, I learned the hard way about these things on GM's when visiting family in Canada. In a 8 month old, 100% stock 98 Z71, back in 98. Took it to a local shop. They said it was normal and put a cable set up on it. I was told back then that they would fail to operate inanything below 20 degrees, and even if they work right sometimes they wouldnt work in 40 degree weather..

[Ted Stryker]

My Father has had 4 GM vehicles with four-wheel drive truck/tahoes and a couple of My liflong runaround buddies had another 2 trucks, one was an S-10and the other was a fullsize... That is the most irratating hub locking system I have ever seen, pure friggin' useless... They were OK when they were brand stinkin new, but after any real usage they got just plain ridiculous and the S-10 got to the point that it would take nearly 20 minutes to engage or maybe longer and this is in weather from 30 fahr - 100 fahr. The best locking system that We had owned was a 1992 Mazda, just slam it on the go with never a single glitch or mis-synchronization...

[Scott Gilmore]

JW your buddy sounds like a p u s s y

Don't care.............I wouldn't buy a new GM if it .....Blew.....everyday....They SUCK & so does IZUSU ........Scott :eek: :D

[Scott Gilmore]

JW your buddy sounds like a p u s s y

Don't care.............I wouldn't buy a new GM if it .....Blew.....everyday....They SUCK & so does IZUSU ........Scott :eek: :D

FAT & HAPPY gets you $hit !!!!

[1BadAction]

stop smoking the crack gilmore.

[Scott Gilmore]

stop smoking the crack gilmore.

Chevy/Isuzu...............TOYOTA.............NISSAN SAME THING !!!! Scott :(

[Pro300x24LD]

Does it engage right though? Dont know about the newer trucks, but Chevy used to use heat to enengage the front axle. When you flip the switch, or turn the knob, it sends power to it. It gets hot, the fluid in side expands when it gets hot and pushes on a rod that locks the front axle. Ive seen them fail in 60 degree weather. Ive seen some refuse to work when it gets colder than 50. If you cross streams, that cools them off too much and kills your front drive. Some work fine, but most Ive seen need to be replaced every year or 2. Ive seen some that were original and work fine more than 10 years old. When replacing one with a new part from GM, I had to send 4 back to get one that worked. Better to convert to a cable system. Plus, Ive seen the shift servos on push button 4x4 systems leave a truck in high and low gear at the same time. Why not use a reliable shift lever? Cheaper and doesnt fail as easy. Although Im from Texas, I learned the hard way about these things on GM's when visiting family in Canada. In a 8 month old, 100% stock 98 Z71, back in 98. Took it to a local shop. They said it was normal and put a cable set up on it. I was told back then that they would fail to operate inanything below 20 degrees, and even if they work right sometimes they wouldnt work in 40 degree weather..

My truck works, 99 z71, no problems what so ever 160,000 miles this morning. My father had a 92 or 93 fullsize Blazer (newer style with IFS) and although it took a few seconds he never had a problem engaging 4wd in his chevy either....175,000 trouble free miles.

It was called a thermal dog clutch something or other, I remember what you are talking about, yes there were some issues with it and 99% of the time I agree go mechanical. But I've only "heard" of the problems, never experienced them, and I know a LOT of people with GM trucks as I live near flint, and know a ton of people that work at the GM Plants.

[Redneck]

Yea, it was something like that. In normal use, they seemed to be ok. If you didnt use it for a year, or so they seem to just quit working. But, for those of us who played in the mud, or hauled a stock trailer out of a muddy field has issues. If they got a little splattered in cold mud, you lost the front drive unexpectedly. Sometimes damage was done when it let go. Always got you stuck too. I dont know how many times I had to run into the barn, get the Cat, haul the truck and trailer out of the mud, then try to get somewhere. Before that I was always a Chevy guy.

[KAOSKutz]

...took a while to get through it. even had to take notes to correct some old dogs out there. i was under the impression this thread was suppose to be about the NEW Toyota TUNDRA vs. the NEW Chevy.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

first off, i love fast boats. been racing boats for 23 years and love it because it is great ol' American family fun. i also like that it is not too territorial - unlike the auto industry i work in. with boats, at least at the end of the day whether you have an omc or merc, you'll still dock together, drink beer, and lie about your gps numbers.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

the cut throat truck war has officially begun. sure everyone has their own stories about their uncle joe-bob that had a whatever that went 500k miles and neighbor that whatever's always been in the shop. but numbers are facts, and facts don't lie. <ST1:pDetroit</ST1:p, er 2.5. of course the T100 and other <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/ /><st1:City w:st=toyota</st1:City>'s reliability is well beyond the Big 3, er, should i say, <st1:City w:st=" /><st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pToyota</ST1:p</st1:City>s trucks have fallen short of some American expectations in the past... they were designed, developed, and some even build overseas.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

but the new TUNDRA was designed in <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pann arbor</ST1:p</st1:City>, mi. it was developed in NA proving grounds. it is built by Americans with more <st1:country-region w:st="on">US</st1:country-region> made parts than the <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pdetroit </ST1:p</st1:City>2.5 trucks. what is not American about the TUNDRA?!? well hopefully, just it's reliability...<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

the TUNDRA will do what any of the others will. and actual magazine and consumers tests show it with out accelerate (w/ and w/out a load and trailer) and out brake (w/ and w/out a load and trailer) the <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pdetroit</ST1:p </st1:City>2.5 trucks. it even beats chevy's fuel econony in real world driving. some of you say "if you put that tranny under my truck, it'd smoke that TOY-yoda" yada, yada. well i have news for you... the <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pToyota</ST1:p</st1:City> actually has the 6-speed now, today. the other trucks don't. so how does that make the slackin' <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pdetroit</ST1:p</st1:City> 2.5's better again? another comment "people didn't like the push button 4wd".. because it didn't work! assume Toyota's will work buddy. they have the most sophisticated traction control systems on the planet. let me ask how much do you think ford changed on their F150 when they recently up'd their tow capacity to 11,000#? not a bolt! they simply reduced their factor of safety (which was probably already below the TUNDRA'S).<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

profits: big<ST1:p</ST1:p 3 profits were handed to select individuals in the past. huge bonuses, parties and celebration (in other words: pissed it away). sure it helped local <st1:City w:st="on">detroit</ST1:p</st1:City> economy temporarily. but perhaps had they reinvested in NA better like <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pToyota</ST1:p</st1:City> has they would be in better shape today. <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pToyota</ST1:p</st1:City> has made over 10 billion each of the past 3 years - all of which is being spent on plants in NA. their top exec's don't take home millions of dollars (like the ol' Big 3 people did). in fact they live in smaller houses than most of you that have these 100mph boats - and i'm sure they work more.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

in japan, business is not a war. work is merely life. they aren't trying to get rich off Americans. they just continue to work hard because they are scared of the chinese. americans, boaters [myself included] especially, are the most self indulged people in the world. and it's just a matter of time until it haunts us all...<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

for the record: <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pToyota </ST1:p</st1:City>has no intention to be the #1 automotive company in the world for volume or sales. it simply wants to remain the #1 company for quality while continuing steady growth and customer satisfaction. GM's decline is not <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pToyota</ST1:p</st1:City>s fault...<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

the Union that was once great for MI people, has completely backfired and will continue to kill the <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pdetroit</ST1:p</st1:City> 2.5. the economy is terrible here and is only going to get worse. <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pdetroit</ST1:p</st1:City> needs to completely re-tool to compete in a new world. or die (with you ol' diehards still watching baseball and eating apple pie). <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pToyota</ST1:p</st1:City> is doing what they can to be a responsible NA company. they are hiring like crazy - but can't keep up with the layoffs of the <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:pdetroit </ST1:p</st1:City>2.5. then again you'll have that in an effective lean manufacturing environment. you can't pay fat lazy joe-bob to sit around on the job making union wages all day year after year.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

i do agree that the <st1:country-region w:st="on">US </ST1:p</st1:country-region>should stop importing vehicles - or charge a huge tax to do so. but let's face it, if you dispise foreign companies being here so much, we need to level up. or if you're not willing to beat 'em, join 'em.<O:p</O:p
<O:p
</O:penough polictics - time for some fun bashing of my own...<O:p</O:p
Big Al: pull off the blinders, change your stubborn thinking or risk ending up being called Detroit Al.<O:p</O:p
Bullet: i'm afraid you will end up shooting yourself in the foot too.<O:p</O:p
Bruster, P...inhead, Redneck: guys, you are talking nonsense. go out and drive the new TUNDRA. do your own side by side comparisons. then get back to me. even towing i like the TUNDRA better than my 2000 F250 7.3L Tubo Diesel that i just sold (and lost my a** on i might add).<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

ok, i'm ready to take it now. go ahead and bring it. but use some actual facts guys...<O:p</O:p
or i'd be glad to drop it and offer you a miller lite down at the lake.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
-proud new TUNDRA owner (despite qualifying for the family GM plan discounts).<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

ps. don't get me wrong, the chevy is pretty nice truck too. i studied it's detail at work daily. if you prefer it, great. i just had to point out the invalid arguements i found throughout this thread...<O:p</O:p

[obrien]

Heres your facts.

So far this year alone Toyota has recalled over 533,000 vehicles.
Last year 1.76 million.
2005 2.2 million. yeah thats real quality there.

I will say agian that there is nothing american made about a Tundra. It is
only assembled here. Thats the only way they can get around the import tariffs.

I would love to see where you got the fuel economy numbers for the tundra. It doesn't come close to 20 mpg.


I do agree with you on the union problem. However, lets see Toyota deal with the unions, and bet their profits start to dwindle.

[1BadAction]

hes just another brainwashed idiot, what do you expect.

[KAOSKutz]

Obrien, respectable comments. My reply:
Toyota will recall product on the hint of a concern. They do not want the risk of negative PR an Explorer tires or bursting fuel tanks can bring. The Detroit 2.5 take bigger risks that way. But you are right, Toyota recalls have spiked recently... it is being addressed.
The Tundra parts were designed in MI, tested in NA, are now made in NA, shipped to IN or TX, and assembled by Americans. I'm confused - which part of that is not American??
The EPA fuel numbers are always skewed on all vehicles. EPA is changing their rating system in the next couple of years to reflect more actual driving scenarios. But the magazine relative tests show the Tundra getting better actual milage than even GM (I'll try to find the article again). I don't know why you think Toyota will ever have to deal with the Union... they will avoid it like the plague [it is].

1B.A., You don't know me. Ain't possible to wash this brain. Skulls too thick. I am not easily convinced of anything. I do my own digging and concluding. Have you driven a new Tundra or done side by side comparisons? Try it and get back to me...

[1BadAction]

cant do a side by side comparison with my truck, cause the SS stops faster, accelerates faster, and pretty much does everything better than the tundra TuRD. thats why toyota doesnt test their top of the line truck VS chevys top of the line (SS), cause they'll get crushed. just like the 10,000lb load on the commercial :rolleyes: they want you to think the trailer is 10k, but it isnt, its only 5k, they count the trucks weight with the load that is quoted.

[obrien]

Obrien, respectable comments. My reply:
Toyota will recall product on the hint of a concern. They do not want the risk of negative PR an Explorer tires or bursting fuel tanks can bring. The Detroit 2.5 take bigger risks that way. But you are right, Toyota recalls have spiked recently... it is being addressed.
The Tundra parts were designed in MI, tested in NA, are now made in NA, shipped to IN or TX, and assembled by Americans. I'm confused - which part of that is not American??
The EPA fuel numbers are always skewed on all vehicles. EPA is changing their rating system in the next couple of years to reflect more actual driving scenarios. But the magazine relative tests show the Tundra getting better actual milage than even GM (I'll try to find the article again). I don't know why you think Toyota will ever have to deal with the Union... they will avoid it like the plague [it is].

1B.A., You don't know me. Ain't possible to wash this brain. Skulls too thick. I am not easily convinced of anything. I do my own digging and concluding. Have you driven a new Tundra or done side by side comparisons? Try it and get back to me...


I am simply basing my fuel economy statement on a few guys I know that own the tundras. The one guy who just leased a brand new one, has decided to let his girlfriend drive it because he can't handle the 12-15 mpg he gets out of it. On the highway he has seen 18 mpg, while running all of 70 mph. Thats only possible if he can stay out of traffic. The rest of the guys I know that have tundras, have the previous model, and they all get ****ty fuel milage. Not to mention if they try to tow anything they are lucky to get close to 10 mpg.

[KAOSKutz]

Obrien, I sold my previous generation Tundra (9mpg towing) to get the F250. The 4.7L sucked down gas towing like boaters suck down beer BS'ing.
But the new 5.7L is a different story. With all those gears and the racey engine, it all depends on how heavy your foot is. I can get 19mph... or 9.

1BadApple, compare apples buddy. The commercial is no different than the competitions. It's apparent your attitude won't let you be objective. Stick with your Chevy. Toyota wouldn't want your representation any way.

[1BadAction]

awww... whats wrong, that big superior jap motor cant out power a little old 1950s tech pushrod motor that weighs half as much? oh, and it gets worse mpg to boot, so much for "efficient japanese power" LOL.


Toyota wouldn't want your representation any way.yea they tend to get mad when people tell the truth on them. I had a 2000 Nissan and it was the biggest hunk of chit on the planet. the tundras havent been much better. btw, have fun when you replace that timing belt every 50000 miles :p

[KAOSKutz]

dude, relax. no one's crying here. and i could care less about your nissan. i'm not a japanese advocate. just know the tundra is capable...

your motor's half the weight... than toyota's aluminum block? right...

FL is 3rd in Tundra sales at over 4,000 already in 3 months. Luckily the people around you don't share your selective hearing and misguided views.

[Pro300x24LD]

ummm what's the lightweight all aluminum toyota weigh? feathers right?

Face it the big three make better trucks then the foreign companies, beyond that why not support american companies for the reasons already stated in this thread? you live in Michigan you would think you'd at least have half a clue....

[KAOSKutz]

Face it the big three make better trucks then the foreign companies, beyond that why not support american companies for the reasons already stated in this thread? you live in Michigan you would think you'd at least have half a clue....

that's your opinion. but the independent writers all agree the Tundra and the Chevy are heads and tails above of the rest. and again, i'm NOT saying 'buy foreign'. you're just not listening...
i did buy american - i bought the Tundra. i have a better clue than you can imagine...

[1BadAction]

i did buy american - i bought the Tundra. i have a better clue than you can imagine...

wow, thats the single most arrogant thing I have ever read on this site! keep telling yourself that, SHEEP.

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/8760/gmvstoyzh7.jpg

I wasnt aware that toyota moved their world headquarters to the US somewhere either, can you please tell me where? :rolleyes: maybe those japanese CEOs spend their extra $ in the states like the execs from GM and ford do :rolleyes: yea, riiiiigggghhhhtttt....

ps, lsX engines weigh about 480lbs with accessories, those heaps in the tundras are almost twice that, and certainly heavier than the aluminum big block chevys.

[KAOSKutz]

SHEEP? did you mean Shep? i was pm'd 'atta-boys' by some of your FL 'pals'... they said to ask where you got your college degree, etc.

(my BSME was from UofM and I've been working in the automotive industry for over a dozen years - specificially working on trucks the past 4.)

again, the tundra is american. from your graphs, toyota is increasing jobs in the US, GM decreasing. toyota's NA headquarters is in ann arbor, mi and growing quickly. sure gm's still bigger.

toyota's surplus $$ is being spent in NA. the exec's don't make millions to spend anywhere. ah forget it, it's useless explaining this all to you again...

were you subjected to some cruel chinese tortures as a child or something to make you so hateful?

fyi, the domestic content number you show is for toyota as a whole - which includes vehicles that are 100% imported. the tundra's domestic content is higher than gm's 74% average. it's between 80 & 90% depending on model.

[1BadAction]

SHEEP? did you mean Shep? i was pm'd 'atta-boys' by some of your FL 'pals'... they said to ask where you got your college degree, etc.

good for him, where did he get his? ask him where he keeps his balls, afterall he must not have any because I don't see him posting anything about me in public...

[1BadAction]

(my BSME was from UofM

the exec's don't make millions to spent anywhere.

hmmm... A lot of good the BSME did you. "millions to spent" ROFLMAO

and your little "FL pals" - thats great man, I'll give you props for at least posting this and not being a little gutless bitch and talking crap to everyone via PMs like my fl "pal".

[Pro300x24LD]

KAOSKutz,

The graphs that onebad posted illustrate my point, Toyota may be investing on US soil, but read an article on Trickle Down Economics.

Start with GM, go tot he supplier, starting with the tier ones all the way down, then as I have said before, take each and everyone one of those people and determine where they spend their money, and so on and so on.

Do the same with Toyota, you tell me where the money goes?

[Pro300x24LD]

Heh, had an interesting conversation with a co worker this morning.

Mind you I work for a Staffing Company that provides people to the suppliers.

I have NEVER worked on a "mechanical engineer with seating experience for a Toyota Program" It has always been GM, DCX, Ford. So obviously those companies directly correlate to our company and our business.

Our secretary said her next car would be a Toyota, her husband drives a toyota.

His company is doing lay-offs and cutting overtime hours.....why you ask? GM has not ordered as many machines from them as they have in the past. Yup, he's bitching about it, they build specialty assembly machines for GM, yet he bought a Toyota.

2 people, DIRECTLY affected by the health of domestic automakers who are so blind to buy a Toyota!!

Secretary says to me "I'm getting a toyota, all you do is put gas in it and change the oil!!!" Meanwhile her husbands driving a loaner because something is wrong with his less then 2 year old Toyota Truck and it has been in the shop for 5 days....

[1BadAction]

oh man, you told the truth, now you'll have some troll and some gutless know it all "pal" that thinks hes god of all gurus telling you how dumb you are because you didn't go to college. :eek:

[Pro300x24LD]

oh man, you told the truth, now you'll have some troll and some gutless know it all "pal" that thinks hes god of all gurus telling you how dumb you are because you didn't go to college. :eek:
huh???

[1BadAction]

Refer to posts #121, 123, 125, and 127. :D

I wouldn't have said anything more on this if someone wasnt being a lil BITCH and sending pm's talking about me behind my back. lol. since they continue to do that, then its on, and I will not let it rest.

[KAOSKutz]

it was more than one or two people that pm'd me. so there's no one to focus all this anger on any ways. they told me there's no point arguing with you about anything. you obviously don't let anything go with nearly 8,000 posts.
get a prescription that suppresses some of your anger. and buy all the chevys you want...

[Redneck]

Why would anyone buy a Chevy nowadays? They are the ugliest trucks on the market. I sold my last new Chevy (an 01 C2500HD w/8.1L) when they made all their trucks look like the Avalanch. I wont own ford because they suck. Ford sued navistar because the Powerchoke sucked. But, the International version is fine. Only the Ford one (ford did the fuel injection themselves, and have no clue what they are doing) has problems. I watched 8 new 6.4 powerchokes get rolled off the truck, everyone was not driveable. Sorry, I want something reliable, not a truck that wont run from the factory. Put 10,000lbs behind a Chevy duramax and see what happens. They are overheating and blowing motors. My Cummins doesnt do that. Hell, I ran a 13.2 in the 1/8th mile with my 20,000lb camper behind me. Still whooped a ricered out Civic.

Who cares what idiots buy? They can buy junk that they are gonna trade in after a year or 2 if they want. In 10 years, I will still have my Cummins, and it will still walk off and leave sports cars. But, I guess you want people to buy trash so that they have to trade it in and replace the POS every year. That keeps people in work. I bought my Cummins so that I will have a truck that will still be running when I die. If ony Ford had the Cummins, I would have bought one. If Chevy was the only one with it, I would have bought a totaled truck and put the motor in something better. I have owned all kinds of stuff, and the only one I dont hate now is the Cummins. Nissan= 73,000 miles then replace motor. Had a toyota. Hit a bug and the windshield shattered. Every bug I hit dented that POS 03 tacoma. 02 Wrangler, couldnt get out of its own way, but great off road. Bought it to drive while I restored my 69 Blazer. Blazer always towed the Jeep everywhere. 01 Chevy 2500, nothing but problems with the servo controled throttle body. Converted it to cable actuated and no more problems (healthy boost in power as well). Had an 03 Powerchoke, 3 days and it was in the shop for a motor. 2 weeks later I get it back. Didnt make it home from the dealer. Another new motor. 3 weeks later I get it back. Locked up on the freeway coming home from the dealer and I almost got killed. Dealer refused to tow it back and refused to do any more warranty work. I borrowed my old Cummins (had a repo wrecker system for a bumper) and drug the pos back myself. Still refused to work on it. I parked it in the showroom the hard way (through the wall) and let the owner know that if I was going to jail for it, I was gonna have his nuts in a jar when the cops got me. He gave my money back and asked me to leave. I will never own a honda, hundai, or any of that crap. People buy things because of the experiance's they have had. I wont own junk, and the only trucks I have never had a problem with had Cummins motors in them, thus thats the only thing I will own. Sometimes its the local dealers that make people hate a brand, but you cant write to ford or chevy and get them to fix the problem. No, you have to go to court and waste thousands of dollars. Once Chevy and Ford get customer service down, then they might be worth owning. Well, ford will have to learn to not jack with things they dont understand, like diesel engines. Chevy will just have to quit looking so gay, and drop the damn price.

Oh yea, you guys arguing about degee's, get a life. Im 25, nothing past high school, but Im retired. Creative investing and Im set for life. Now, I live of the intrest of what I have in the bank(s). 8g's a month for doing nothing. Thats just intrest. Also get another 15k (monthly) or so from mineral rights that I own. Schools of any kind wont teach you anything that you cant learn on your own. It just means you wasted lots of time and money to get a job you hate, and you will die of something stress related before you ever retire. Or, like one of my uncles, he had a heart attack and died at his retirement party at work.

[obrien]

Sounds like you were in the right place at the right time.

[Redneck]

I inherited some mineral rights. Got about $100 a month from it. This got me interested in it. I found out everything I could and bought more. Then, they really started pumping natural gas. Big time. Good timing and good luck. Now, most people in this area know about them and wont sell, but then they didnt know or care. Im willing to pay a grand for some that are only paying a few hundred bucks a year because I know I will get my money back. But, about 6 months after I got most of it, they started really paying off. Then it was on the news and everyone knows about it. If you said Barnett Shale, 5 years ago, everyone drew a blank. Now, everyone in my area knows about it. Not as much as I do, but enough. Give it about 20 years and it will be cheap and easy all over again, and I will be buying everything I can get my hands on. I also manage my money carefully. If things dont go as planned, I dont intend to quit living the easy life. I dont spend 1/4 of what I get monthly. Heck, I have set up accounts that I cant take anything out of for 5, 10, 15 and 20 years. Most of my monthly income goes straight into those accounts. I live off of as little as possible. If I didnt manage my money, I would have all the coolest toys, but would be waiting for the next months checks. But I worked my butt off since I was 10. When I was 13 I sold my lawn mowing buisness for 100k. I made about 35k a year, paying mexicans to mow lawns for me. Started out mowing the old lady next doors lawn, then the old dude across the street. After a year, it was 14 blocks, only 2 or 3 yards off of each block that I didnt do. Quite a few people had mer do their yards just because I was a kid bossing around 20-30 mexicans. When I was doing that, I also did meanial crap at a hotrod shop for almost nothing, just to learn how to build motors. Thats the reason my first street car ran 9's in the 1/4, on a small block Chevy, no blower or juice. I also payed to have a shop built in my parents back yard and fixed and sold classic cars. As far back as I can remember, I havent been able to sleep more than 3 or 4 hours a night, so rather than lay around, I found stuff to do. Ive worked jobs that none of my friends had ever thought of. But, I get bored with jobs easily, so I changed them every 2 or 3 months. And if I didnt like a boss (or customer) I would let them know. I did burn a lot of bridges, but I live a way easier life than all of my bosses. I bought a company once, just to fire a guy who had been my boss a year before. That is the most satisfying thing you can do, trust me. Scumbag always hired younger kids, and treated them like crap untill they quit, or would fire you for no reason whatsoever. He had a reason to fire me, but it was because he ticked me off. And I sort of held him against a wall, with a saber saw between his legs and let him know what I thought of him. Didnt cut him, but he pissed himself. When I let him go he told me that I would never be better than a bum, and would piss the wrong person off someday. Should have seen the look on his face when the owner called everyone together to tell them that they had a new boss, me. That was the second time he pissed himself because of me.

[mr_velocity]

Do I dare admit it, well yes!! Went out today and brought home a new Tundra Crew Max with the 5.7. Heck I don't tow so the extra room in the cab is nice for the kids. With the 5.7 the truck is a rocket....as far as trucks go. Best part, Toyota has 0% financing for 48 months so I even got to drive it off the lot using their money. That and I talked the $40K sticker down to $35K. There are a bunch of these, at least the loaded ones, sitting at the dealers.

Interesting piece on the window sticker. It said
Body and chasis parts 80% US 20% Japan
Engine and drivetrain parts 100% US.

So for those that think these things are just assembled here, looks like they are sourcing more parts for this truck in the US than some other "US" manufacturers that source their parts from Mexico or Canada. It kinda made me feel a little better driving it off the lot.

[mr_velocity]

Analysts call them “New Domestics,” a clever tag used to describe automakers that have relocated much of their operations to North America…but come from somewhere else. Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai are perfect examples of automakers that are building research and development centers, assembly plants, engine plants, transmission plants and other parts houses across the nation, employing workers and rejuvenating local economies.

Get used to it.
As these automakers transition more toward US locations, they are quickly becoming as domestic as the “old domestics.” According to CSM Worldwide, in fact, parts sourcing for General Motors has decreased over 11 percent between 1997 and 2005, down to 79.9 percent. Toyota, meanwhile, has increased their parts volume from the US/Canada tandem to 68.9 percent, up from 52 percent. Honda upped its commitment in the same time period by almost nine percent, according to CSM, and Ford decreased their commitment by 3 percent. It’s a shift that will keep shifting, as these “New Domestics” continue to bring parts manufacturing to the US and the “Old Domestics” shift to less expensive parts suppliers overseas. One day soon, in fact, the government’s American Automobile Labeling Act will show just how outdated it is, when the vehicles with the most US/Canada content will have names such as Camry, Accord, Civic and Sienna. The trend begs a question: with only a 10 percent difference in the amount of parts produced here in 2005, with thriving plants across the nation and with plans to funnel more investment into the US, just how much more American is GM, compared to Toyota?


MAKE/MODEL ASSEMBLY PARTS STATUS
Toyota Sienna USA 85% DOMESTIC
Toyota Camry USA 80% DOMESTIC
Toyota Tundra USA 80% DOMESTIC
Honda Ridgeline USA 75% DOMESTIC
Honda Pilot USA 75% DOMESTIC
Toyota Avalon USA 75% DOMESTIC
Toyota Corolla USA 75% DOMESTIC
Honda Accord USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Civic USA 70% IMPORT
Honda Odyssey USA 70% IMPORT

[The Big Al]

Those are assemble numbers!
Not actual parts made in America!

When they bring a complete power assembly into the country they call it (1) part! A single part!

I see you believe the import camma also!

BLA BLA BLA!

BS!

[mr_velocity]

Those are assemble numbers!
Not actual parts made in America!

When they bring a complete power assembly into the country they call it (1) part! A single part!

I see you believe the import camma also!

BLA BLA BLA!

BS!


My last post did not come from Toyota, it came from industry analysts. You believe what you want to believe. The article says parts not assemblies.

[chynewalkr]

Do I dare admit it, well yes!! Went out today and brought home a new Tundra Crew Max with the 5.7. Heck I don't tow so the extra room in the cab is nice for the kids. With the 5.7 the truck is a rocket....as far as trucks go. Best part, Toyota has 0% financing for 48 months so I even got to drive it off the lot using their money. That and I talked the $40K sticker down to $35K. There are a bunch of these, at least the loaded ones, sitting at the dealers.

Interesting piece on the window sticker. It said
Body and chasis parts 80% US 20% Japan
Engine and drivetrain parts 100% US.

So for those that think these things are just assembled here, looks like they are sourcing more parts for this truck in the US than some other "US" manufacturers that source their parts from Mexico or Canada. It kinda made me feel a little better driving it off the lot.

parts are still made in japan, go to the dealer and ask for a part for your toyota. it will come in a box that says "made in japan". their money is so undervalued that once the parts are shipped over here, all the handling of the parts in subassemblys by our higher wage workers gives them the right to label the content on the assembled vehicle as made in the USA. Go read the trade laws if you care, its all political bull$%&^. I work for an aftermarket parts supplier and touch OEM Toyota parts everyday, I rarely see a part labled "made in the USA".

[mr_velocity]

parts are still made in japan, go to the dealer and ask for a part for your toyota. it will come in a box that says "made in japan". their money is so undervalued that once the parts are shipped over here, all the handling of the parts in subassemblys by our higher wage workers gives them the right to label the content on the assembled vehicle as made in the USA. Go read the trade laws if you care, its all political bull$%&^. I work for an aftermarket parts supplier and touch OEM Toyota parts everyday, I rarely see a part labled "made in the USA".

Sucks if its true. Some Toyota models are manufactured both in the US and Japan for sale on the US market. Why do the cars "assembled" in the US use different parts then the cars assembled in Japan?

Overall I don't have any loyalty to any company. If so many of these truck purest really cared then they wouldn't buy anything foreign including those that oursource technology like IBM, AT&T, Verizon, Dell, etc. I was hoping the parts info would be true but I bet those Americans that assembled my truck are really proud of their product and are happy I bought it.

[The Big Al]

Sucks if its true. Some Toyota models are manufactured both in the US and Japan for sale on the US market.
.


lets get this straight! and i mean straight!

TOYOTA DOES NOT "MANUFACTURE" cars or trucks in the USA! They assemble them!
They are not created, designed, machined or even close to being "MANUFACTURED" in the USA!

Understand this! And understand it well!
The total USA workforce by Americans for Toyota is smaller than th GM employees n The 1930's!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get it! I am so f**king tired of this toyotagama!
And the employees they do have work for much less than others in the industry! It' the DAM TRUTH!

[mr_velocity]

lets get this straight! and i mean straight!

TOYOTA DOES NOT "MANUFACTURE" cars or trucks in the USA! They assemble them!
They are not created, designed, machined or even close to being "MANUFACTURED" in the USA!

Understand this! And understand it well!
The total USA workforce by Americans for Toyota is smaller than th GM employees n The 1930's!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get it! I am so f**king tired of this toyotagama!
And the employees they do have work for much less than others in the industry! It' the DAM TRUTH!


Show me ONE piece of printed industry or auto mag material the shows the following to be FALSE. Just one. I've found multiple sources for the following information, so show some facts instead of your biased opinion.

"Development of the new Tundra was spearheaded by Toyota's U.S.-based facilities. Product planning began at TMS headquarters in Southern California. All engineering development was directed by the Toyota Technical Center in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Styling, inside and out, was the work of Toyota's Calty Research and Design Centers in Newport Beach, California and Ann Arbor, Michigan. Finally, the new Tundra will be built at Toyota Motor Manufacturing in Princeton, Indiana and Toyota's new truck plant in San Antonio, Texas."

Or

"Yes, it is true. The '07 Tundra is a big truck. The sort of "Detroit iron" that one associates with, well, Detroit. This probably explains why, in part, the upper body was developed and engineered by Toyota Technical Center ... in Ann Arbor, due west of Detroit. That's right, a bunch of folks who live, eat, and breathe the same way/things as their brethren who work at the companies renown for their full-size pickups. They were also responsible for central control of the development there in southeastern Michigan."

Or

"(JACKSON, Mississippi) – Governor Haley Barbour said today Toyota Auto Body Co., Ltd. (TAB) will build a $180 million plant in North Mississippi, becoming the first announced supplier to Toyota’s new auto assembly plant in Blue Springs. TAB officials made the decision public in Japan overnight.

The facility, to be named Auto Parts Manufacturing Mississippi Inc., will employ about 260 workers and will begin production by 2010 to coincide with the start-up of Toyota’s new Highlander SUV plant."

Or

Lamar Alexandar (US Senator) Tenn: The company estimates that its total investment in the plant over 20 years will total $373 million. The plant will cast molten aluminum into engine blocks that will be used by all of the company's North American engine plants, Toyota Senior Vice President Dennis Cuneo said.

OR
"The product that most closely demonstrates that goal is the all-American Toyota Avalon. Introduced in the 1995 model year as a replacement for the Cressida, the Avalon represents the research efforts of Toyota's Ann Arbor, Mich., Technical Center with help from support facilities in California, Arizona and Massachusetts (near MIT in Boston). At Ann Arbor the primary activities includes such things as vehicle parts and material design, regulatory affairs, and emission certification. California's Calty Design Research (Newport Beach) does the styling. Toyota's total North American R&D employment: about 750 total, of which about 600 are in Ann Arbor. Brownlee says the total engineering staff numbers 550 with about 200 support associates."

http://www.industryweek.com/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=11301

I guess everyone in the industry have been completely fooled just like me :rolleyes:

So try Google or Ask or Yahoo or whatever your favorite search engine might be. Find me proof that any of this is completely wrong.

[JW]

Hey Big Al, did you read this months Consumer Reports? :D

[mr_velocity]

This is an old one too.

A new study by the Center For Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Michigan, says the steady expansion of the Toyota Motor Corp. base in the U.S. has made a substantial contribution to the nation's economy.

The study, which was financed by Toyota, estimates that the automaker's $13.4 billion investment in the U.S. yielded $14.4 billion in wages in 2003.

Sean McAlinden, CAR vice president of research, said that the new study represented the first time CAR had examined the impact of a single manufacturer on a regional and national economy. The study looked at the impact of Toyota's manufacturing plants in Buffalo, West Virginia; Georgetown, Kentucky; Huntsville, Alabama; Princeton, Indiana; and Fremont, California, CAR officials said.

"The study illustrates the importance of foreign direct investment in the United States, which is largely responsible for the U.S. motor vehicle industry first recovering and then maintaining its traditional position as the largest national automotive industry in the world," said Kim Hill, the director of CAR's automotive communities program.

"Toyota is one of the major international leading the trend," he added. "The study also emphasizes the many intangible benefits of Toyota's U.S. investment, such as innovation, productivity performance, environmental performance, and increases in product quality that have had a ripple effect within the industry, local communities, and throughout the entire U.S. economy," Hill said. Toyota's emphasis on productivity and quality are now studied in other industries.

Dennis Cueno, senior vice president for Toyota Motor North America, said that the company was proud to be an integrated part of the American economy.

In addition, automotive-related jobs generally pay more, he noted. The average annual salary at Toyota Motor North America was $63,872, which was substantially higher than the average compensation in the non-farm private sector across the U.S., where pay averaged $26,902.

The study noted that Toyota employed 29,135 workers in its U.S. product development, manufacturing, and sales and marketing operations, while an additional 74,060 workers were directly employed in new-vehicle, dealer-related operations.

In addition, the study concluded that jobs at suppliers and spin-off jobs created by spending from Toyota employees added another 312,000 jobs to the economy.

The study also estimate that the new Toyota pickup truck plant in San Antonio will support another 9000 jobs in Texas and produce $460 million in compensation in Texas once it is fully operational. The San Antonio plant is scheduled to open next year and Toyota officials have announced plans for a new plant in southern Ontario between Detroit and Toronto.

Toyota has been making an effort to discuss its contribution to the U.S. economy during a recent advertising campaign. The Wall Street Journal speculated last week that at least part of the reason for the new campaign is designed to deflect criticism from the Japanese automaker as General Motors and the Ford Motor Co. struggle to hang on to market share while closing plants and getting rid of employees.

McAlinden also said the study points up the importance of auto manufacturing generally to the economy. Auto manufacturing by its very nature has a huge impact on the economy and accounts for more manufacturing jobs than any other sector of the economy. Twenty different manufacturing industries of all descriptions sell products to the auto industry, he noted. No other single industry is linked to so much in the U.S. manufacturing sector or generates so much retail business and employment, Hill added.

Hill added that Toyota's operations had a major impact on 14 different states, including several, such as North Carolina, where it doesn't have any kind of manufacturing presence. Another state that gets a major lift from Toyota is Ohio, where Toyota supports an estimated 11,000 jobs in supplier plants.

[mr_velocity]

Go GM America!!!!
General Motors de Mexico leads automotive companies in Mexico in sales. It began operations in this country in 1935 and today has efficient and modern manufacturing plants in Toluca, State of Mexico; Silao, Guanajuato; Ramos Arizpe, Coahuila; and in Mexico City. GM's investment is substantial as Mexico's single largest private employer. GM Mexico assembles many models for the domestic sales and worldwide export. It markets the Chevrolet, Pontiac, Cadillac and Saab brands, and Fiat.

GM Mexico Exports to:
United States -- Cavalier, Sunfire, Silverado, Suburban, Aztek
Canada -- Cavalier, Sunfire, Silverado, Suburban
IPC - Cavalier, Sunfire, Silverado, Suburban, Suburban RHD
Argentina – Cavalier
Chile - Cavalier, Suburban
Ecuador – Cavalier
Peru – Cavalier
Central America and Caribbean - Cavalier, Sunfire, Chevy, Chevy RHD Silverado, Suburban, Kodiak

[JW]

That last one may be a little old, as my Avalanche was imported from Mexico, and it was a 2004....................................

[mr_velocity]

Who invests in the US, American Automakers???

Comparing side by side maps of automotive supplier plant density in 1980 and 2005, as Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago economist Thomas Klier did in May 2006, reveals an industry whose complexion is clearing, even as blemishes remain.
In a January 2006 white paper from the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute, Walter S. McManus, PhD, director of the Automotive Analysis Division, noted that U.S. manufacturing employment fell by 19 percent from 1998 to 2005, but motor vehicles and parts employment as a fraction of all manufacturing was up 0.4 percentage points from 1998 to 2005. "From a national perspective, the industry is healthy," he wrote.
Conway Data's New Plant Database reflects that hesitant optimism, with 1,003 U.S. projects between Oct. 2004 through September 2006, up from 889 projects between October 2002 and September 2004. But before the large investments by Kia in Georgia and Honda in Indiana, the biggest automotive news of 2006 was DaimlerChrysler's planned investment of US$1 billion in Toluca, Mexico. A look at the industry's investment patterns reveals Mexico may indeed be part of the way forward for a host of companies.
CRUISIN': On the same day in March 2006 that DaimlerChrysler celebrated the making of its 1 millionth PT Cruiser in Toluca, Mexico, the company announced a $1-billion investment in the plant and adjacent supplier parks.

Ford Motor Co. for the first time has put up its existing plants as collateral for more financing, even as it plans to close 16 of them, including seven assembly plants by 2010. When added to the nine overall plant closures planned by General Motors, that's 25. But even as these and other car makers continue to perpetuate the infamous "jobs bank" that pays union workers to do nothing, their investments and others continue to pay a Mexican work force to do something at new plants and expansions:

• Ford in June announced upgrades of two assembly plants in Cuautitlan and Hermosillo and an engine plant in Chihuahua – though it was quick to say that the new assembly plant that is part of its "Way Forward" plan will not necessarily be in Hermosillo, as leaked documents had suggested.
• In San Luis Potosi, General Motors is investing at least $650 million in a new assembly plant that could employ up to 2,400 people.
• In Guadalajara, Honda is investing $52 million to increase assembly capacity.
• Nissan is investing $800 million in its plant in Aguascaliente, and $30 million in Cuernavaca.
• Truck makers are in on the action too: Commercial Vehicle Group is growing in Agua Prieta, while Kenworth Mexicana is investing $78 million in Mexicali.
"Ford has been doing business in Mexico since 1925, and we were the first automaker ever in the country," said Mark Fields, Ford's president of the Americas, at that June announcement. "We remain committed to a new low-cost manufacturing facility. But we have made no decisions on where it will be located. The key to success will be high quality and low cost, and that certainly can be in the U.S., Canada or Mexico."
ROOM ENOUGH TO DRIVE A TRUCK THROUGH: November 17, 2006, was the date the new $1.28-billion Toyota Motor Manufacturing Tundra truck plant opened in San Antonio, Texas. The plant's investment was originally estimated at $800 million in 2003, but grew to approximately $1.28 billion because of a capacity expansion for 50,000 more trucks; rising material costs, especially for steel; and additional infrastructure needed for the 21 on-site suppliers. Those suppliers will employ 2,100 at full production, and have cumulatively invested approximately $300 million.

"Mexico remains an excellent business environment for Ford, and it will remain a key manufacturing location for our global automotive operations as a result of these investments." said Louise Goeser, Ford of Mexico president and CEO.
In San Luis Potosi, General Motors' investment takes advantage of the new highway infrastructure linking the area to Silao – where GM operates another plant – as well as to the newly forming transport corridor between the port of Lazaro Cardenas and the U.S. border. In addition, the San Luis Potosi-Zacatecas highway, linking the area to Ciudad Juarez, has been expanded. Next will come a highway linking Cerritos to Tamaulipas.
The economic impact forecast of the plant includes a potential $440 million in annual purchases from Mexican suppliers and 16,500 indirect jobs. Meanwhile, the compensation split at the plant is dramatic, according to the groundbreaking announcement from the state, which touts average wages of $12,000 for workers and $52,000 for management.
In Toluca, DaimlerChrysler's $1-billion investment includes upgrades to the Toluca Assembly Plant, the creation of two supplier parks, and additional operational improvements. The improvements at the Toluca Assembly Plant will include an all-new body shop with state-of-the-art manufacturing capabilities. New robotics will have the capability to make necessary tool changes automatically within cycle time, thus amplifying the plant's flexibility. The new and jointly funded supplier parks will provide head liners, cockpits, front-end modules and front and rear suspensions.
The investment follows on major investment made at the company's other major Mexican complex in Saltillo.
"The decision to invest in Mexico would not have been possible without the support of the union and the Mexican government's commitment to the automotive sector," said Chrysler Group Chief Operating Officer Eric Ridenour in March 2006. "Our Mexican Manufacturing Operations have earned this investment by embracing flexible work force processes."
In addition to an improving transportation infrastructure, the industry's supply pipelines are improving in both the before- and after-market. Among recent investments in the country are a flurry of high-ticket tire plants, as well as a $250-million automotive steel plant from Korea-based juggernaut Posco in Altamira, Tamaulipas.
In November Alabama celebrated the five-year anniversary of the Honda plant in Lincoln by releasing a new study showing an annual $4.5-billion economic impact and responsibility for creating 45,000 jobs in the state. In 2005, the plant had a total payroll of $252.4 million, or $54,443 per worker. Industry infrastructure is coming into its own at the right time, as a Kia plant takes shape on the Georgia state line. Supplier build-up in northern Alabama alone in recent months includes investments by Topre and Rehau in Cullman and North American Lighting in Muscle Shoals. Meanwhile, the state's training infrastructure has continued to flower, most recently with the 2006 implementation of a new degree in automotive manufacturing technology through the Consortium for Alabama Regional Center for Automotive Manufacturing (CARCAM), a program put together by five community colleges and based at Central Alabama Community College in Talladega.

[Scott Gilmore]

That last one may be a little old, as my Avalanche was imported from Mexico, and it was a 2004....................................


OLE' !!! Scott :D

[JW]

One thing's for sure, I'd rather buy imported Mexican goods than the same goods made in China!

[mr_velocity]

One thing's for sure, I'd rather buy imported Mexican goods than the same goods made in China!

Another old one but :eek: none the less.

General Motors is to import a V6 engine from China to install in a planned Chevrolet sport-utility vehicle to be built in Canada, the company's first use of a Chinese-made engine in North America, Bloomberg News reported, citing Canadian Auto Workers (CAW) chief Buzz Hargrove.

Hargrove told Bloomberg that GM would ship the engines from one of its joint ventures in China to Ingersoll, Ontario, where it would build the sport-utility from 2004. Hargrove added that GM, which in September reached a new three-year contract with the CAW, told his union that it does not have the capacity to build the engine in Canada. "We didn't see much that we could do to change the decision. It's an engine they are already building in China," Hargrove told Bloomberg.

[JW]

I found out about Chinese parts in engines in Dodge trucks. My buddy lost his bearings in his '99 dodge with the 360, and when he went to get parts for it, they were all sourced from China. I guess Dodge has been using chinese parts for years in the old-tech engines that nobody would have guessed had any foreign parts in them............

[Scott Gilmore]

I found out about Chinese parts in engines in Dodge trucks. My buddy lost his bearings in his '99 dodge with the 360, and when he went to get parts for it, they were all sourced from China. I guess Dodge has been using chinese parts for years in the old-tech engines that nobody would have guessed had any foreign parts in them............


Ole' & Sushi (sorry Egg Noodle) !!!! Scott :D

[Scott Gilmore]

One thing's for sure, I'd rather buy imported Mexican goods than the same goods made in China!


Either one are BETTER than the UAW HACKS that put them together here in the good old the USA !!!! THE BULL$hit uaw & the rest of those overpaid underworked UNION HACK a$$hole people have WASTED our economy & ruined the USA as it should be. FLUSH that GIANT union TURD down the toilet & everyone that sucks off of it !!!!! Let them all get "jobs" @ the local 7/11 IF they're qualified . Scott :( :( :( :( :( :(

[KAOSKutz]

Big Al sure got quiet once you guys started talking facts.
Toyota is willing to pay more to buy parts from North American suppliers. They do so to up NA content. That means the parts are molded, stamped, etc. here and then assembled and shipped to the local plants here. Sure a few components are still made in Japan and shipped here, but not many. And yes that is pathetic. Pathetic they can make them in a country without natural resources, ship them here, and still beat the cost and quality of the good ol' US. Thanks to many lazy Americans and the unions, America simply can not compete. Which is also the reason the Detroit 2.5 is having to outsource production to CAN & MX.
I live near Detroit and have worked for Toyota for over 10 years. It's a terrible transition this area is going through. But it was just a matter of time. US customers want the best bang for the buck when they buy a vehicle. They don't want to pay for excessively high labor, retirees income, union dues, etc. They just want a good vehicle.
And if they want to 'buy American' they are educated enough to find out what is most American - unlike Al.

[1BadAction]

We just realized that sell outs like you will believe whatever you want to feel justified when you buy an IMPORT. You have a horrible economy there, caused largely by your god toyota, yet you are too blind to see it. Either that or you are the epitome of arrogant yuppie and all you care about is YOURSELF . Keep spitting in the face of the people that fought, worked, and died for this country, im sure they appreciate it. :rolleyes:

typical comments from all you other IMPORT nutswingers. when no valid reason can be found to the point of this post, you bring out some red herring argument or pull the old character assassination routine like a bunch of politicians. like I said, whatever you gotta tell yourselves that lets you sleep at night.

[mr_velocity]

Big Al sure got quiet once you guys started talking facts.
Toyota is willing to pay more to buy parts from North American suppliers. They do so to up NA content.

This has everything to do with their production model (how they run production and why they are so successful). The suppliers are always very close to their assembly plants (geographically) so they can better control quality, quickly work with suppliers to resolve part issues and have less inventory since they don't have to ship items. GM and Toyota worked together in the '80s, Toyota tried to teach them how they run production. Unfortunately, GM either rejected it or were so bound by the unions that they didn't learn from it. Cheap labor is not the answer and after GM invests in all these 3rd world countries they are going to eventually come to that conclusion....just before they turn out the lights forever.

I'm in tech which has been outsourcing for many years, lost my job due to it (watched my industry just disappear). I'm now part of the decision making when it comes to outsourcing for the co I work for, I can tell you there is no other country that comes close to the American worker when it comes to productivity, none, not even close.

I don't blame the union workers, I do however blame the unions for brainwashing them.

My favorite union story. My uncle was a baggage handler for UAL, he was so pro-union that I swear they gave him union blood transfusions every day. He also thought UAL management was slime and were always trying to screw the employees. So the union buys the airline, what happens....here is just a few.
7% pay reduction
Lost paid lunch and lost paid breaks
During peak holiday seasions non-union temp workers (lost his double time and a half OT)
Contribution to medical benefits

Funny how management was always trying to screw everyone but when the union buys the company they need to cut all this stuff in order to stay in business. :rolleyes:

[mr_velocity]

We just realized that sell outs like you will believe whatever you want to feel justified when you buy an IMPORT. You have a horrible economy there, caused largely by your god toyota, yet you are too blind to see it. Either that or you are the epitome of arrogant yuppie and all you care about is YOURSELF . Keep spitting in the face of the people that fought, worked, and died for this country, im sure they appreciate it. :rolleyes:

typical comments from all you other IMPORT nutswingers. when no valid reason can be found to the point of this post, you bring out some red herring argument or pull the old character assassination routine like a bunch of politicians. like I said, whatever you gotta tell yourselves that lets you sleep at night.

Post some facts. Show me were Toy isn't investing in the US, that the Tundra is assembled from all import parts. GM is selling us out for cheaper labor, the typical bean counter answer to any moneitary ailment. I see that mentality every single day when I come to the office. What am I blind to? Post some facts. While you're at it, show me where the UNION actually cares about the company and the shareholders while they drive the company into the ground.

As for the economy, for those with an EDUCATION the economy is HOT. I've been trying to hire technical people and can't find any qualified candidates for under $65 an hour (bottom end). The market is completely dry and the salaries keep going up. If you want to do this country a favor then keep your kids in school so they get an education. Then they can compete in the world instead of relying on "patriotism" in oder to get or keep a job.


TM isn't a god but they're doing pretty well. Kaoskutz, you have options?

[1BadAction]

show me one post of mine defending the union.

I guess those engineers in detroit being put out of work by the ones in tokyo don't have an education, right? :rolleyes: Buy the imports, keep believing that toyota invests in america at even half the rate of GM or Ford, and pretty soon you'll sell the countrys manufacturing out totally. I'm glad I don't have kids, because with the "me me me" attitude of 75% of this country, there is no future.

BTW- throw all the "facts" up that you want if it makes you feel better about yourself. too bad these things you make out to be something important, mean very little in the grand scheme. I would try to explain this, but your minds were made up long ago...

[mr_velocity]

show me one post of mine defending the union.

I guess those engineers in detroit being put out of work by the ones in tokyo don't have an education, right? :rolleyes: Buy the imports, keep believing that toyota invests in america at even half the rate of GM or Ford, and pretty soon you'll sell the countrys manufacturing out totally. I'm glad I don't have kids, because with the "me me me" attitude of 75% of this country, there is no future.

BTW- throw all the "facts" up that you want if it makes you feel better about yourself. too bad these things you make out to be something important, mean very little in the grand scheme. I would try to explain this, but your minds were made up long ago...

I know some of these posts have a lot of words but maybe you should take the time and READ some of it. It was all pulled from industry sources.

You mean these engineers? Since when is Ann Arbor not part of the US?

"Development of the new Tundra was spearheaded by Toyota's U.S.-based facilities. Product planning began at TMS headquarters in Southern California. All engineering development was directed by the Toyota Technical Center in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Styling, inside and out, was the work of Toyota's Calty Research and Design Centers in Newport Beach, California and Ann Arbor, Michigan. Finally, the new Tundra will be built at Toyota Motor Manufacturing in Princeton, Indiana and Toyota's new truck plant in San Antonio, Texas."

Also look at the investments, how much the US makers are moving out and the foreign makers are moving in.

My mind is not made up, I'm really looking for facts and you have posted nothing. I have yet to find anything that says anything contrary to the Tundra being designed in the US, NOTHING. Show me something, show me where I'm wrong on this. Show me other articles that show that GM is investing more than the foreign companies in the US while GM keeps pumping money into Mexico, after all they are Mexico's largest private employer. BTW, I blame this 100% on the unions for crippling GM in the US labor market. This is not about better products, this is purely cost cutting so GM can compete in the global market.

If the facts don't matter, what does?

Do you still believe the 1952 statement from the CEO Charles Wilson “What is good for General Motors is good for the country."

I guess this is another meaningless fact, after all these pople are underpaid and they really don't matter to anyone since their paycheck doesn't come from a US parent company.

In November Alabama celebrated the five-year anniversary of the Honda plant in Lincoln by releasing a new study showing an annual $4.5-billion economic impact and responsibility for creating 45,000 jobs in the state. In 2005, the plant had a total payroll of $252.4 million, or $54,443 per worker.

[fire_mike]

We just realized that sell outs like you will believe whatever you want to feel justified when you buy an IMPORT. You have a horrible economy there, caused largely by your god toyota, yet you are too blind to see it. Either that or you are the epitome of arrogant yuppie and all you care about is YOURSELF . Keep spitting in the face of the people that fought, worked, and died for this country, im sure they appreciate it. :rolleyes:

typical comments from all you other IMPORT nutswingers. when no valid reason can be found to the point of this post, you bring out some red herring argument or pull the old character assassination routine like a bunch of politicians. like I said, whatever you gotta tell yourselves that lets you sleep at night.

How is it an "import" if it is made in the United States?

[Markus]

How is it an "import" if it is made in the United States?

I think that from an auto industry statistical perspective, cars are defined as imports if they are made by a foreign auto maker even if they are assembled in the United States.

[Bartman39]

I agree with Markus alot of people think its ok just because they are assembled over here but they are still a foreign auto company... Uh were does the major portion of the money from sales go...? Sorry but I scoff at Toyota being in Nascar and still think they should`nt be allowed... But hey its not my cup so to speak... :rolleyes:

One thing I`d like to mention and if it already has been then sorry but I`m not going to read all the darn pages to this post...

What I wanted to address is I checked out a brand new Denali pickup with an LS2 and 402hp (think thats what they said) and it does amazing things like towing huge loads and still getting killer fuel economy and can bet money it will make toast of the Toy`s... Main reason I can win the bet is the owner of my company has a 2007 Toyota 4X4 4 door with the 381hp engine and a subcontractor to our company has the new Denali 4 door 4X4 and they put them to the test and the Denali made my boss think twice even though he owns a Toyota dealership... (The Denali walked the dog on the Toyota)

Not to say Toyota does not make a good truck but I think GM has been at it a little bit longer and has a little more insight as to what we want and need... Since my old 1999 Silverado ext cab with 5.3ltr got its computer flashed and is getting 21mpg (instead of 20mpg before) and pulls the old Skeeter and 26' travel trailer just fine, I think I`ll keep it for a while longer... :thumbsup:

[BIG "V"]

I almost feel bad for buying my toyota:D:leaving:

[Pro300x24LD]

How is it an "import" if it is made in the United States?wow.....srsly?

[Markus]

I agree with Markus alot of people think its ok just because they are assembled over here but they are still a foreign auto company... Uh were does the major portion of the money from sales go...? :

The majority stays in the US. A large share of Toyota's supplier base for the US-built vehicles are in the US. Assembly is in the US. Profits are very low in automotive.

[Cleavor]

Profits may be thin, but all of it goes back to Japan. I have never owned an import from anywhere and have no plans to. My next truck with be a 3/4 ton or 1 ton, the Japanese don't make those. So far, I have been a big fan of Ford trucks, but I might have to look at the GMCs when the time comes.

[Kartracer]

The majority stays in the US. A large share of Toyota's supplier base for the US-built vehicles are in the US. Assembly is in the US. Profits are very low in automotive.

Over their whole line, Toyota's US content, and the total amount of US jobs effected are still way lower than any of the big three. I don't care if it is "assembled" here, that is just a small portion of the puzzle.

[Pro300x24LD]

haha this argument is raging on about 4 or 5 message boards that I read....some even have multiple threads.


Ignorance is bliss.

[Powerplay25]

In terms of negatives, many reported that the six-speed automatic often would hunt for gears, and others said the plastic clips that hold the tailgate linkage together were prone to failure. The Tundra's interior plastics received the most heat. "The interior was much below the new standard of GM, with horribly cheap hard plastic on doors, dash and console," griped one owner.


So much for that wonderful 6 speed all these Toyota lover's are raving about.

[baja200merk]

So much for that wonderful 6 speed all these Toyota lover's are raving about.

hunting for gears:confused: my cousins has 50k in a little over 6 months and almost every mile is towin 3k at even at 90 it keeps pullin and im a mopar lova

[BIG "V"]

I must be honest.... my Toyota Tacoma has a V6 and it has trouble pulling my boat at 65-70! I will be looking for a full size truck soon. Again I will be looking for a good truck BUT one that doesn't hurt me to buy.

[1BadAction]

I must be honest.... my Toyota Tacoma has a V6 and it has trouble pulling my boat at 65-70! I will be looking for a full size truck soon. Again I will be looking for a good truck BUT one that doesn't hurt me to buy.

get it while gas is still high, theres tons of idiots that didnt need a real truck selling them now, for cheap. :D

[Markus]

Over their whole line, Toyota's US content, and the total amount of US jobs effected are still way lower than any of the big three.


Toyota builds cars all over the world. So does GM.

For those who care about where their vehicle is made it is the model-to-model comparison that matters.



I don't care if it is "assembled" here, that is just a small portion of the puzzle.

If you add the origin of the parts, it is all of a sudden most of the puzzle.

[Pro300x24LD]

get it while gas is still high, theres tons of idiots that didnt need a real truck selling them now, for cheap. :Dyeah, buy my truck.


Toyota builds cars all over the world. So does GM.

For those who care about where their vehicle is made it is the model-to-model comparison that matters.



If you add the origin of the parts, it is all of a sudden most of the puzzle.Hi, you STILL don't get it. No, Really, you dont.

How many people live on American Soil and have a job directly or indirectly because of toyota?

How many people who live on American Soil have a job directly or indirectly because of General Motors?

kthxby pass the kool aid.

[1BadAction]

Hi, you STILL don't get it. No, Really, you dont.

How many people live on American Soil and have a job directly or indirectly because of toyota?

How many people who live on American Soil have a job directly or indirectly because of General Motors?

kthxby pass the kool aid.

they dont care. just like kaos putz the sell out that posted earlier. as long as THEY have jobs, they could give a chit less what happens to the other 5000 people that don't.

[Pro300x24LD]

they dont care. just like kaos putz the sell out that posted earlier. as long as THEY have jobs, they could give a chit less what happens to the other 5000 people that don't.5,000?

Try GM is lowering their workforce of salaried workers in the near future by 20%

Again, what is that going to do to the plumber down the street now that the GM guy is not going to install another bathroom in his basement and have a bar plumbed in the game room? and the electrician, and the party store owner since the guy wont be buying beer this weekend?

Not to mention the tier one and two suppliers that will no longer need to engineer products for those programs that just got cut....and those peoples plumbers, and electricians, and diners, and movie theatres, etc.

It will affect them, and by then I'll be laughing my ass off telling them I told you so.

So how many salaried employees at GM you ask? Let's conservatively say 30,000 (I think its closer to 40,000) So between 5 and 10 THOUSAND people just lost their jobs and quit spending money with in the economy. Nope, not going to affect me they say.

Let us not forget the other 19,000 HOURLY WORKERS who just lost their jobs......yup, when they stop spending its not going to affect you either.....thats almost 30,000 people who are no longer spending as they normally would helping to buy goods that someone else makes or contributes to......but hey, toyota employs a TOTAL of about 35,000 people in the US.

Nearly half what GM does. So I guess my point is that if you could make an impact on more people's livelihood and an IMPACT ON YOUR OWN livelihood by purchasing a GM, FORD, OR CHRYSLER, why wouldnt you?

[Powerplay25]

This is why we should by American.

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163481

[The Big Al]

News flash all you Toyota lovers!

TOYOTA WILL END PRODUCTION OF THE TUNDRA AND SEQUOIA AUG 2008!

And will build them back in Japan!

HUMMM!!!!!

[Markus]

Hi, you STILL don't get it. No, Really, you dont.

How many people live on American Soil and have a job directly or indirectly because of toyota?

How many people who live on American Soil have a job directly or indirectly because of General Motors?


The point is that
The first number keeps growing, as demand for Toyota products increase in the US, and Toyota increases its US production capacity to meet that demand.

The second number keeps shrinking as demand for GM products decreases in the US, and GM closes plant after plant to respond to reduced demand.

If you replace one US-assembled GM vehicle with one US-assembled Toyota vehicle, it is pretty much a zero sum game.

[Markus]

So I guess my point is that if you could make an impact on more people's livelihood and an IMPACT ON YOUR OWN livelihood by purchasing a GM, FORD, OR CHRYSLER, why wouldnt you?

There are three reasons why people would not:
1. They cannot find any attractive vehicles in the GM, Ford or Chrysler line-ups, so they buy a different brand
2. They think a used car is better value for money than a new, so they buy a used car
3. They have already borrowed way too much, and don't want to extend themselves even more

What is driving the market now is 1 and 3: People are now in love with fuel efficient vehicles rather than trucks, and the big 3 is not (yet) the place to go for that. People also feel that they need to pay down their debt before buying new toys.

[Pro300x24LD]

The point is that
The first number keeps growing, as demand for Toyota products increase in the US, and Toyota increases its US production capacity to meet that demand.

The second number keeps shrinking as demand for GM products decreases in the US, and GM closes plant after plant to respond to reduced demand.

If you replace one US-assembled GM vehicle with one US-assembled Toyota vehicle, it is pretty much a zero sum game.
No its not, because the money toyota makes goes back to japan and is injected into their country's economy, gnp, gdp, and livelyhood of their citizens.

The money GM makes is injected into our local gnp, gdp, and then the same for the companies that their employees spend their money at...like I said, you dont get it.

[1BadAction]

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[Markus]

News flash all you Toyota lovers!

TOYOTA WILL END PRODUCTION OF THE TUNDRA AND SEQUOIA AUG 2008!

And will build them back in Japan!

HUMMM!!!!!

Toyota will not end production. They will stop production from August to December to run down inventory. And production of the Tundra is moving from Indiana to Texas. A smaller SUV will be build in Indiana. As far as I know, Texas is not in Japan.

Toyota is also building a new plant to build the Prius in Mississippi.

[Powerplay25]

If you replace one US-assembled GM vehicle with one US-assembled Toyota vehicle, it is pretty much a zero sum game.

Wrong!

Although the Toyota may be assembled here, the monies are still going back to Japan.

[Pro300x24LD]

There are three reasons why people would not:
1. They cannot find any attractive vehicles in the GM, Ford or Chrysler line-ups, so they buy a different brand
2. They think a used car is better value for money than a new, so they buy a used car
3. They have already borrowed way too much, and don't want to extend themselves even more

What is driving the market now is 1 and 3: People are now in love with fuel efficient vehicles rather than trucks, and the big 3 is not (yet) the place to go for that. People also feel that they need to pay down their debt before buying new toys.


1. Thats all fine and dandy, but there are very few segments if any where the foreign automaker is ahead of the big 3 in my opinion. The one segment I will say even I like the foreign cars better is the small to midsized sporty sedans. However I'd settle on a Cadillac CTS because it has as good if not better styling IMO then the bmw, acura, audi, etc.

2. Buying used is fine, but again, buy domestic, chances are the person upgrading is brand loyal and will be getting another domestic. Buy foreign and the chances are the guy is going to get another foreign.

3. irrelevant, your just making point 2. again.

As for your mpg comment, are you drunk again? Whats the average Tundra owner getting for MPG? Not the 20-21 mpg I am getting from my chevy.

How about the 30 mpg malibu, where's the honda or toyota in that class coming in? Same mpg's....

Civic? Aveo? Cobalt (36mpg), Focus (30+), yeah the domestics don't have the 40+ mpg jetta tdi, I'll give you that....but seriously do you know the market?

I'd like you to SHOW me class by class how much better the foreign automakers mpg monsters are compared to the us automakers...their may be more choices, but really are there?

start here.

www.fueleconomy.gov Let me know what you find....

Toyota Corolla 4 cyl, 1.8 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
27
city 35
hwy $2053

Chevrolet Aveo 5 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
27
city 34
hwy $2053

Pontiac G3 Wave 5 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
27
city 34
hwy $2053

Chevrolet Aveo 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
27
city 34
hwy $2053

Pontiac G3 Wave 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
27
city 34
hwy $2053

Hyundai Accent 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.3 NA
27
city 33
hwy $2127

Nissan Versa 4 cyl, 1.8 L, Automatic (variable gear ratios), Regular
6.3 NA
27
city 33
hwy $2127

Toyota Corolla 4 cyl, 1.8 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
26
city 35
hwy $2053

Hyundai Accent 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.3 NA
26
city 35
hwy $2127

Nissan Versa 4 cyl, 1.8 L, Manual 6-spd, Regular
6.6 NA
26
city 31
hwy $2201

Chevrolet Cobalt XFE 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
25
city 37
hwy $2053

Pontiac G5 XFE 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.1 NA
25
city 37
hwy $2053

Pontiac G5 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.3 NA
25
city 35
hwy $2127

Chevrolet Aveo 5 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.6 NA
25
city 34
hwy $2201

Pontiac G3 Wave 5 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.6 NA
25
city 34
hwy $2201

Chevrolet Aveo 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.6 NA
25
city 34
hwy $2201

Pontiac G3 Wave 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.6 NA
25
city 34
hwy $2201

MINI John Cooper Works 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 6-spd, Premium
6.6 NA
25
city 33
hwy $2324

MINI John Cooper Works Clubman 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Manual 6-spd, Premium
6.6 NA
25
city 33
hwy $2324

Chevrolet Cobalt 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.8 NA
24
city 33
hwy $2281

Pontiac G5 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.8 NA
24
city 33
hwy $2281

Mazda 3 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
6.8 NA
24
city 32
hwy $2281

Nissan Versa 4 cyl, 1.8 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.8 NA
24
city 32
hwy $2281

Pontiac G5 GT 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
7.1 NA
23
city 32
hwy $2374

Pontiac G5 GT 4 cyl, 2.2 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
7.1 NA
23
city 32
hwy $2374

Mitsubishi Lancer 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 5-spd, DOHC, Regular
7.3 NA
22
city 30
hwy $2466

Toyota Corolla 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
7.3 NA
22
city 30
hwy $2466

Toyota Corolla 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic (S5), Regular
7.3 NA
22
city 30
hwy $2466

Chevrolet Cobalt 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
7.3 NA
22
city 30
hwy $2466

Mazda 3 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (S4), Regular
7.3 NA
22
city 30
hwy $2466

Volkswagen GTI 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (S6), Premium
7.3 NA
22
city 29
hwy $2604

Volkswagen Jetta 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (S6), Premium
7.3 NA
22
city 29
hwy $2604

Mazda 3 4 cyl, 2.3 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
7.3 NA
22
city 29
hwy $2466

Mitsubishi Lancer 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (variable gear ratios), DOHC, Regular
7.7 NA
22
city 28
hwy $2571

Mazda 3 4 cyl, 2.3 L, Automatic (S5), Regular
7.7 NA
22
city 28
hwy $2571

Volkswagen GTI 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 6-spd, Premium
7.3 NA
21
city 31
hwy $2604

Volkswagen Jetta 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 6-spd, Premium
7.3 NA
21
city 31
hwy $2604

Scion tC 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2571

Volkswagen Jetta 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2571

Volkswagen Jetta 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Automatic (S6), Regular
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2571

Volkswagen Rabbit 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2571

Volkswagen Rabbit 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Automatic (S6), Regular
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2571

Mitsubishi Lancer 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Manual 5-spd, DOHC, Regular
8.0 NA
21
city 28
hwy $2682

Mitsubishi Lancer 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic (variable gear ratios), DOHC, Regular
8.0 NA
21
city 27
hwy $2682

Volkswagen New Beetle 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Automatic (S6), Regular
8.0 NA
20
city 29
hwy $2682

Volkswagen New Beetle 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
8.0 NA
20
city 28
hwy $2682

Volvo C30 FWD 5 cyl, 2.4 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
8.0 NA
20
city 28
hwy $2682

Volvo C30 FWD 5 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic (S5), Regular
8.0 NA
20
city 28
hwy $2682

Scion tC 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Manual 5-spd, Regular
8.0 NA
20
city 27
hwy $2682

Volvo C30 FWD 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Manual 6-spd, Regular
8.0 NA
19
city 28
hwy $2682

Volvo C30 FWD 5 cyl, 2.5 L, Automatic (S5), Regular
8.0 NA
19
city 28
hwy $2682

Mazda Speed 3 4 cyl, 2.3 L, Manual 6-spd, Premium
9.2 NA
18
city 25
hwy $3255

Mitsubishi Lancer 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (S6), DOHC TURBO, Premium
9.2 NA
17
city 25
hwy $3255


Would you look at that, General Motors cars right at the top of the list....damn, the domestics sure suck at fuel economy.

Hmmm lets move up to a slightly bigger car. "Family Sedans"

wow, amazing, the 2/3 on the top of the list, domestic......
Toyota Camry Hybrid 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic (variable gear ratios), HEV, Regular
5.4 NA
33
city 34
hwy $1813

Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.3 NA
26
city 34
hwy $2127

Saturn Aura Hybrid 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular
6.3 NA


yup, again the us automaker sucks at fuel economy, you win again markus.

"Upscale Sedans"

Top of the list
Acura TSX 2.4liter 4 Cylinder 21/30 mpg
Linkoln MKZ 3.5l V6 18/28
Caddilac CTS 3.6 V6 18/26

Again the foreign car, is just killing the domestic, how dare the us automaker get about the same mileage out of a bigger more comfortable car with a bigger engine....they really suck at engineering.....
Sporty/sport cars

Audi TT Roadster Quattro 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (S6), Premium
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2715

Audi TT Coupe Quattro 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic (S6), Premium
7.7 NA
21
city 29
hwy $2715

Mitsubishi Eclipse 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Manual 5-spd, SOHC, Regular
8.0 NA
20
city 28
hwy $2682

Pontiac Solstice 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 5-spd, Premium
8.3 NA
19
city 28
hwy $2962

Saturn SKY 4 cyl, 2 L, Manual 5-spd, Premium
8.3 NA
19
city 28
hwy $2962

Pontiac Solstice 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic 5-spd, Regular
8.7 NA
19
city 27
hwy $2935

Saturn SKY 4 cyl, 2 L, Automatic 5-spd, Regular
8.7 NA
19
city 27


damn, that saturn and soltice really suck compared to the competition again...



Need I continue? Seriously, you dont understand economics, you obviously don't seem to understand fuel economy, and you have a picture of a guy with a bucket on his head.

[Markus]

No its not, because the money toyota makes goes back to japan and is injected into their country's economy, gnp, gdp, and livelyhood of their citizens.


Yeah, Toyota made an 8.64% operating margin and a 6.54% profit margin the most recent 4 quarters. What a drain on the US economy... :rolleyes:

Add to that that Toyota has a global investor base and is not just owned by Japanese investors.



The money GM makes is injected into our local gnp, gdp,


GM is not making money. GM is losing money. GM has been destroying value for years. That is why the share price (up 10% this morning) is at its lowest for 50 years.



and then the same for the companies that their employees spend their money at...


US Toyota employees spend their income, too. There is no difference whatsoever.



like I said, you dont get it.

Don't be too sure about that. ;)

[Kartracer]

US Toyota employees spend their income, too. There is no difference whatsoever.

Which are what, about 2% of the effected people as compared to the US automakers?

[Pro300x24LD]

US Toyota employees spend their income, too. There is no difference whatsoever.




GM out employs toyota 10-1 on us soil, (I made that figure up, but I invite you to look it up) so explain to me the difference that makes...yup your right, not much.....

What about some of those mpg figures markus.....don't avoid the discussion, you brought it up.

I am sure you don't get it.

[Markus]

I'd like you to SHOW me class by class how much better the foreign automakers mpg monsters are compared to the us automakers...their may be more choices, but really are there?


Sure, GM has some models, but what would that list have looked like if it had been only full-size trucks? It would have been totally dominated by the big 3. Now, GM is just one of many. Given the choices, it is no surprise that GM is losing market share.



Need I continue? Seriously, you dont understand economics, you obviously don't seem to understand fuel economy, and you have a picture of a guy with a bucket on his head.

:D:D:D:D

[Markus]

GM out employs toyota 10-1 on us soil, (I made that figure up, but I invite you to look it up) so explain to me the difference that makes...yup your right, not much.....


If GM fires 1 person in Michigan and Toyota employs 1 in Texas, it is a zero sum game. That is what I am trying to say.

[Kartracer]

If GM fires 1 person in Michigan and Toyota employs 1 in Texas, it is a zero sum game. That is what I am trying to say.

No it is not.

[Pro300x24LD]

If GM fires 1 person in Michigan and Toyota employs 1 in Texas, it is a zero sum game. That is what I am trying to say.
No. It is not a Zero Sum game.

[Pro300x24LD]

Sure, GM has some models, but what would that list have looked like if it had been only full-size trucks? It would have been totally dominated by the big 3. Now, GM is just one of many. Given the choices, it is no surprise that GM is losing market share.



:D:D:D:DGlad you found humor in the bucket comment :D

If the list had only been fullsize trucks for what fuel economy? Look at it. The top truck is a fullsize GM product. The first foreign truck on the list is a mini toyota with a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder. The list is DOMINATED by GM products.

Like I said, My non hybrid fullsize crew cab pick up truck 4x4 gets up to 20-21 when driven like a sally and when driven normally I get 18 mpgs.

Thats pretty damn good IMO