Calling Raceman--67 L88 Alert

[sms]

Just wanted you to see this:

[sms]

in this:

[Raceman]

Looks good to me at a glance. I wonder if it's real. With only 20 L88's built in '67 there're a lot more fakes than real ones around.

Can't tell for sure from the picture if it's Lyndale blue or Marina blue (looks more like Lyndale) but whatever it is, it looks good.

[The Big Al]

I would rather have a fake!

Then I could run the living **** out of it.

Sometimes this collector stuff get's out of hand.

Buy-um, Drive um like ya stole um!

And when ya done sell it to some guy who wants to restore it for the next guy!

[Riverman]

WARNING! THIS POST MAY GET DELETED!

That is approaching pornography. :)

[150aintenuff]

definatly porn.... and I got all the britney stuff up on the other screen .... believe me that car is more sexually appealing.. real, or fake... it dont matter...

[HiLift]

Vacuum assisted brakes with an L88???

[Fish]

I would rather have a fake!

Then I could run the living **** out of it.

Sometimes this collector stuff get's out of hand.

Buy-um, Drive um like ya stole um!

And when ya done sell it to some guy who wants to restore it for the next guy!

like this big Al??? Its a driver, no numbers match but its not a garage queen either.

[Ziemer]

The early to mid 60's Stingray's are my favorite of any style Vette. :cool: :D :D That's a nice driver you got there Fish. ;)

[Fish]

thanks ziemer, I acrtually wish It was mine. my brother and I bought it as a beat up project as a surprise for my dad who had to sell his when we were really young so we could eat. We did almost everything ourselves except for the paint when we could find time. It is about 95% there but as a driver, if we don't get the other 5%, who cares??

here it is when we started:

[Ziemer]

thanks ziemer, I acrtually wish It was mine. my brother and I bought it as a beat up project as a surprise for my dad who had to sell his when we were really young so we could eat. We did almost everything ourselves except for the paint when we could find time. It is about 95% there but as a driver, if we don't get the other 5%, who cares??

here it is when we started:

Very cool! My dad had 2 66's when I was a kid. The second one he actually bought and sold 3 times. (Yes, same exact car.) Very nice though, it was an original sunfire yellow convertible 327/350 4-speed.

[sms]

I just sent an e-mail to the guy who had posted that pic where I found it to see if I can get the story on the car, which of course I should have done first. I just got all hot and bothered and had to show it quick.

[mr.clean]

Clone!

[Raceman]

Vacuum assisted brakes with an L88???

Yep.........J56 brakes (two pin calipers with larger pistons and special pads, PLUS power assist) were a mandatory option on ALL L88's.

[Raceman]

Clone!

What makes you think so? Possibly so because of the rarity, but I don't see anything in the pics that shows it to be one. If it's a clone it's a well done one with a lot of attention to detail.

Several L88 pieces that are evident on this car (and correct). Orange-ish spark plug wires (L88 only and $uper expen$ive and hard to find now.... all L88's were mandatory radio deleat, so the stainless braided plug wires and ignition shielding box were abscent), vacuum canister on distributor with barb for hose cut off (this was done by GM on L88's ONLY because they used full centrifical), radiator and overflow tank (other big blocks in 67 used a conventional brass radiator with a cap on it and no overflow, actually the L88 radiator stuff in 67/68/69 is very similar to small block stuff) thermostat housing. Notice also the lack of fan shroud. Every other Corvette made besides the L88 had a shroud and GM did this supposedly to discourage street use. The missing shroud would make the cars tend to run hot in traffic.

[HiLift]

I knew about the J56 twin pinners but never thought the L88 would produce enough vacuum to hold the car!!

[150aintenuff]

i am going to have to say its not ALL ORIGINAL STOCK though... the Manifolds have paint overspray on them AND actually look to be NOS . OR its a very good Clone job of the l88 specs... question to the neatniks why tape off the casting ### and keep them paint free and spray the motor with the manifolds on.. doesnt that leaves areas unpainted under the manifolds??

[Raceman]

Actually that's a dead correct restoration. Chevy engines were assembled with the manifolds on as well as the water pump. The people who get really obsessive with that kind of detail make it a point to leave voids in orange paint behind the water pump and exhaust manifolds, allowing rust because that's the way the plant did em. If you look at many of the high point big block chevies now, they also have what I consider excessive overspray on aluminum intake manifolds, because they too were installed prior to painting and there was a bonnet of some type dropped over them before the painting. In the case of the exhaust manifolds, they were painted solid orange along with the rest of the engine and the paint burned off most of the surface upon initial start up. In the case of the heavier areas of the exhaust manifolds, especially on small blocks in the area of the boss for the generator/alternator bracket, it's not uncommon to see small reminants of orange overspray on very original cars that have never been restored. Almost all alum. intakes that have never been messed with have small traces of orange somewhere around the edges, but I think the wide swatch of orange paint that's now common, especially on big block tri power intakes at the shows is a silly exageration of factory sloppiness. One other thing that the current state of the art in restoration seems to dictate is black overspray on about half of the hood latches that are silver cad plated, and intentional heavy runs of black chassis paint on suspension components, such as half shafts and drive shafts. I just ain't doin' my cars that way, even though lack of orange overspray on exhaust and intake manifolds has cost me judging points at both Bloomington and NCRS events in the past when I useta' fool with having some of my stuff judged.

Oh yeah............... one other place the judges just LOVE to see overspray is all over the water pump/thermostat bypass hose that runs from top of the water pump to the intake manifold. To fit in with the crowd, you've gotta get orange paint all over the bottom clamp and an inch or so up the hose.

Chevy did in fact mask the front pad that contains the engine assembly sequence and horsepower/transmission code as well as the vin number sequence, leaving it bare to rust. No one has ever told me why.

[Raceman]

Here's a picture of one of my 427/435's. Of course the spray cast exhaust manifolds and total lack of orange overspray on both the intake and exhaust manifolds would cost big time if I was to have the car judged. (which I don't do anymore)

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5734/67corvette435pv8.jpg

[The Big Al]

Chevy did in fact mask the front pad that contains the engine assembly sequence and horsepower/transmission code as well as the vin number sequence, leaving it bare to rust. No one has ever told me why.

It was covered and stamped before the front clip was installed.
Or on the corvettes case, while engine was in frame before matted with body. They really never knew were the frame was going till it was placed under the body to receive that drive-line. The drive-line (frame) assembly with engine was out side of the Body area, and brought in as needed.
This is when the 2 lines would meet. The Vin code was priority to body, then installed on all frame and engine requirements once it was confirmed the frame would be it's mate. Our under the body install area. This is were they could change the drive line if they could for a special order. Special orders back then were truly special orders. Once the frame and engine was stamped there was no turning back. They were bolted together. No exceptions. Then the build sheet you find under the floor board carpet and in most cases installed under the passenger seat came from. Later changed to a decal installed in the glove box. This was the matting paper work, with all info from both body and frame were listed and numbers needed to be installed on frame and engine. ( a check sheet of sorts)

Now ya know!
Al



Al

[mr.clean]

I'm pretty sure in 67 the "Build Sheet" was attached to the Fuel Tank ;) Norris, Correct me if I'm wrong but out of the 20 made in 1967 only 5 were Roadsters and I don't remember one of them being Lyndale Blue with Black Stinger. I would love to see interior pics or the Block.

[150aintenuff]

only way to know if its a true L88 is to see the build sheet, and all the number stamps of the car and engine and frame and see if they match... OR the easier way.. leave it alone... 1967 paint as the day it rolled off the factory + 40 years of time and storage/use.. that IMO is worth more than ANY restoration...... Especially if its near PERFECT and never touched..

[Raceman]

I don't know what the coupe/roadster numbers were. I believe the one that the Saudi Prince totaled was a roadster and I've seen at least 3 coupes that were known to be authentic.

The Corvette build sheets which started in '67 were installed on the tank, and as far as I know they stayed there throughout St. Louis production. I've heard rumors of people finding them above heater box on firewall, and under carpet, but I've never seen it.

My LS6 Chevelle had 2 build sheets. One was under the passenger side of the front seat (it's a bench seat car) and the other on the inside of the driver's side door panel. (it was Atlanta built) My LS6 El Camino had only 1 sheet, under the passenger bucket seat. If there was another it was never found, but definately not on either door panel. (it was built in Kansas City)

[mr.clean]

I don't know what the coupe/roadster numbers were. I believe the one that the Saudi Prince totaled was a roadster and I've seen at least 3 coupes that were known to be authentic.

As far as I know 20 were made. 15 Hard tops and 5 Roadsters with well over 30 claimed to be authentic survivors today:p Those who know estimate less than 15 are still with us.

[Raceman]

only way to know if its a true L88 is to see the build sheet, and all the number stamps of the car and engine and frame and see if they match... OR the easier way.. leave it alone... 1967 paint as the day it rolled off the factory + 40 years of time and storage/use.. that IMO is worth more than ANY restoration...... Especially if its near PERFECT and never touched..

It's really dangerous territory now when dealing with high dollar stuff. The whores that build and sell repro build sheets and protecto plates now are so good at it that they're hard to distinguish from originals. They even chemically age and stain em. I'm sure some CSI type analysis might turn up some age discrepency, and it may very well come to that. The block stamping has also come to a point of virtually impossible to determine. One of the '67 L88's that was at a local shop for some glass replacement (he's one of the best Corvette fiberglass guys in the country) had a block bought for it that had never been stamped from new, and when it was shipped to one of the engine stamp gurus, it was impossible to tell it wasn't the original. Of course, this being a high dollar car they'd been looking for dates and were lucky enough to find a virgin '67 block that had a casting date within the window of believability.

A Corvette dealer from Omaha had a '67 L89 roadster for sale in the early 90's. They only made 16 L89's in '67, which makes em more rare than the '67 L88, although not as valuable. This dealer had a full paperwork file, including build sheet and Protecto Plate. I ran the serial number back to the original selling dealer in N. C. and found out that it was an original 327/300 horse car that had been faked. (incidentally the Feds have MSO information on every car manufactured since sometime in the 40's on file if someone can get it accessed. The MSO lists the selling dealer and first owner. It's VERY HARD to obtain the information, but it does exist)

My '69 L88 was bought new by a local guy here. Owner history is the only really safe way to be confident in originality of a rare optioned car. Of course there is also room for fraud there. Ford and Chrysler put codes in their VIN numbers to show options. In the case of my recently aquired '63 427 Galaxie, the R in the VIN sequence shows it to be 427/425 & 4 speed, and it'd be VERY difficult to counterfiet, since it'd require title and VIN number alteration. I believe Chrysler VIN numbers gave similar information.