Hello

[ozer19]

Hello All,

Firstly as you will see I am brand new here. Not a racer myself, but just started learning about boats, engines, etc.

I have a Boston Whaler 21 Outrage and looking to power the badboy up. I have looked at Honda VTEC 225 as well as Verado 225.

Can anyone tell me or suggest me whichever is better? I am also open to any other engine options that I might not have considered.

For 225 HP what is the best engine my money can buy?

Thank you for your help.

[Hot Shot Merc]

Welcome to S&F.You will get many different opinions here but I would go with the merc personaly.Maybe an older 225 pro max efi.Lots of power the old fashioned way.:p

[Carlson150XS]

It's all according to your needs. I'd go to BassandWalleyeBoats.com
They have great tests. They have in their files tests on 200,225 and 250's.
Check out the fuel economy on the 250 test 2 stroke vs 4 stroke. The Merc Opti 2 stroke beat the four stroke and it's alot lighter. The new two strokes out perform the four strokes,except in noise level. Even that is close now. Most dealers won't tell you that-it's easier for them just to go with the flow-convert everyone to 4 stroke.
Good luck on your search.

[Scream And Fly]

Welcome to the site!

Defining "best" would help us better understand your needs. For a boat like that, I would imagine you would want maximum torque (by the way, the 21 Outrage is an awesome ride). The Verado will likely outperform the Honda, especially when it comes to torque.

Greg

[ozer19]

Thank you all. I sure did not know that new 2 strokes outperform the 4 strokes and close to the noise level as well. I will definitely look into 2 strokes as well.

My needs are simply open sea fishing. I want to be able to get far out there as quick as possible, of course without worrying to get stuck. Noise level is not a big issue for me. Do you think Verado 225 would be too big/heavy? I am looking to get a brand new engine as I will finance it. So the price is not that much of an issue.

Thanks.

[Scream And Fly]

To keep it simple:

A two-stroke such as an OptiMax is the solution for the best top speed. They are all extremely reliable too. I do not think a Verado or other 4-stroke would be too heavy for your boat, but the two-stroke will weigh less, if that's important to you.

Greg

[ozer19]

To keep it simple:

A two-stroke such as an OptiMax is the solution for the best top speed. They are all extremely reliable too. I do not think a Verado or other 4-stroke would be too heavy for your boat, but the two-stroke will weigh less, if that's important to you.

Greg

Thank you Greg. Top speed info noted. I am not too worried about weighing less, but I was concerned heavy Verado might be too much for my Outrage. What about reliability? Also, it seems that I am leaning towards 2 strokes now due to your and everybody elses valuable inputs. But what is the hype about 4 strokes and do 4 strokes have any advantage other than noise level?

Oz

[Scream And Fly]

Oz,

The advantage of a four-stroke engine is the subject of some debate here. The two dominant technologies today are direct-injected two-stroke (DFI) and four-stroke engines. The push for many manufacturers toward four-stroke engines was due mainly to satisfy EPA mandates for emissions. Some claim better fuel economy and quieter performance, although I will say that the Verado is the quietest outboard I have never heard.

The OptiMax is, in our experience, a very impressive performer. You can read about a recent evaluation of a 2.5XS here (http://screamandfly.com/home/evaluations/mercury_2.5xs/1.htm).

Here's a short clip I shot of four 275-horsepower Verados, just to give you an idea of how quiet they really are:

<object height="350" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pNRzANp72gY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"></object>

[Fish]

Hi Oz, welcome to scream and fly. Here is a link to the 250 thread here on scream and fly. http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110355&highlight=250+shootout The article on B&W is more detailed, but basically, the 250 opti won nearly every category. I recently re-powered my 23 center-console (which is also a heavier CC like the whaler) with a merc 250 also. I looked at the verado and was amazed when I heard them (or as greg pointed out, did not hear them), but I wanted to save the weight. I like to fish and dive, and with coolers, gear...etc, my personal preference was to have less weight on the transom.

IMHO, most of the manufacturers today are making very good high quality engines. ETECH, Yamaha, Honda and Mercury are all putting out very good, reliable products. MY personal preference would be the 250 opti, but I would be happy with any of the others... just not quite as happy :)

good luck, and welcome to S&F,

fish

[The Big Al]

http://www.mercurymarine.com/uploads/6241/3458Warr_MGSCFTP.jpg

[The Big Al]

Welcome to Scream And Fly!

Being a Boston Whaler I guess this rig will have some major fishing time.
That being said, the 4 Stroke will be the best option hands down. Low speed trolling, no oil smell or heavy fumes.

I feel the Honda and Mercury Quality to be outstanding with both.
One thing Mercury has that no other brand has! The amount of approved service dealers. If their is water, you can almost guarantee a Mercury dealer is close by. And Mercury dealers are required to maintain tools and a up to date qualified technician.

Also Prop selection is a outstanding option from Mercury.

Fuel consummation with these 4 strokes at wide open throttle is not great.
Cruising speeds are outstanding. And for fishing the low speed operation of a 4-stroke is outstanding. 2 strokes can not com-pair.

I personally owned a Key West that i used for sport shrimping when I lived in SC, first engine on that boat was a 2 stroke. After 2 or 3 hours of low speed operation the engine would load up, oil smell, fuel smell.
Changed to a 4 stroke and I could use that boat at constant low speed operation for over 8 hours working 2 tide changes. It did not have the top end, but everything else was outstanding! OUTSTANDING!

Hope this helps
Al

[ozer19]

Fantastic opinions, thank you. From the opinions I get here, Mercury will be the winner I guess. This is what I summarized:

Verado: Quiet, great cruising speed mileage, low emission, heavy.

Optimax: Not as quiet, but more tork, and lighter.

I'd feel environmentally happy/confident with Verado and I am leaning towards that now. Being quiet is also a good thing altough that was not one of my priorities. Power wise, the difference between these two will not bother me.

Bottomline, would you feel confident recommending "this poor little fishing fan" putting a 225 Verado on my 21 Outrage over any other brand such as Honda, Suzuki, Johnson etc? Is there a terrible downfall to this gorgeous looking motor?

Oz

[ozer19]

Or may be 200HP? Would 200 work well with this boat or 225 is a must? The whaler weighs a hefty 3000 lbs.

[bigbore]

E-TECH,is all you need to know,225 h.o. is a solid performer (for sure)3 yr. REPLACEMENT warrenty with NO scheduled maintence,for 3 yrs.,it's quiet,reliable,weighs much less than a 4 stroke,and performes like a top.:cool:

[Carlson150XS]

I am assuming that the two strokes Big Al was referring to were the old EFI's.
The DFI's ,E Tech/Opti , are great engines. I would be against buying a Verado,
to new for me. Wouldn't buy a 4 stroke based on the tests I have read.

[ozer19]

After talking one of the local dealers for Mercury and Suzuki, they have also suggested that Verado is too new and with no track record it is risky to rely on it completely. Especially with the "almost power" steering and all the bells and whistles that come with it. He suggested the Suzuki 4 stroke being much more reliable than Mercurys. And of course cheaper.

Is he just trying to sell me Suzuki over Verado because he has more inventory? Or is what he claims true?

[bigbore]

adds alot of weight,i beleive thats puts it at 650pds.:cool:

[Scream And Fly]

After talking one of the local dealers for Mercury and Suzuki, they have also suggested that Verado is too new and with no track record it is risky to rely on it completely. Especially with the "almost power" steering and all the bells and whistles that come with it. He suggested the Suzuki 4 stroke being much more reliable than Mercurys. And of course cheaper.

Is he just trying to sell me Suzuki over Verado because he has more inventory? Or is what he claims true?

They are just trying to sell you an engine. The Verado is the most tested outboard in history. The reports I have received indicate that the Verado is extremely reliable.

Greg

[Carlson150XS]

I suggest you decide the following-

Do a spread sheet with a list of your concerns- look at the engine tests done by B&WB and the areas they test. Then you need to decide.

Two Stroke or four stroke



What make- Merc ,Yam etc.

Go on the internet to find the highest volume dealer for the motor you picked in your area.
Price two other dealers.

Buy the motor

The dealers are going to sell you what they make the most $$$ on if they can.
That's what they do to stay in business. You need to make the brand decision and get the best price possible for yourself.

[ozer19]

I suggest you decide the following-

Do a spread sheet with a list of your concerns- look at the engine tests done by B&WB and the areas they test. Then you need to decide.

Two Stroke or four stroke



What make- Merc ,Yam etc.

Go on the internet to find the highest volume dealer for the motor you picked in your area.
Price two other dealers.

Buy the motor

The dealers are going to sell you what they make the most $$$ on if they can.
That's what they do to stay in business. You need to make the brand decision and get the best price possible for yourself.

Thank you. You are correct. I have done my research and will do a more extensive one as you suggested. From all I have gathered, I am currently leaning towards the Verado. I will gather some more information and make a decision accordingly. I would like to thank you for all your help. Your opinions and advice are priceless. You are more than welcome to come and have a ride if you are in the area of St. Petersburg, FL.

Have a nice day.

Oz

[blkmtrfan]

You didn't say what year and/or style of 21 Outrage you have :confused:

An early Banana style (relaitively light)

A mid year with the transom large enough for twin V6's (and rated to 300hp I believe)

Or the newer style with the euro transom

The style would definately make a difference in the motor choice IMHO :)

[ozer19]

Correct. I have a 1996 Outrage 21'.

[blkmtrfan]

Then I believe that I am correct in thinking that a 1996 is still like the earily 90's 21' outrage than can handle 2 V6's.

If so, it can definately handle the weight of a Verado.

However, if it was mine (and there was a mint 93 for sale near by eariler this year with a 250 HP V8 Johnson, but I couldn't quite figure out how to get another boat and stay married, LOL) I would think a 250XS opti would be my choice ;)

Either that or twin 150 optis :D

Sounds like a neat project, please keep us posted and let us know how it works with the Verado :cool:

[ozer19]

Then I believe that I am correct in thinking that a 1996 is still like the earily 90's 21' outrage than can handle 2 V6's.

If so, it can definately handle the weight of a Verado.

However, if it was mine (and there was a mint 93 for sale near by eariler this year with a 250 HP V8 Johnson, but I couldn't quite figure out how to get another boat and stay married, LOL) I would think a 250XS opti would be my choice ;)

Either that or twin 150 optis :D

Sounds like a neat project, please keep us posted and let us know how it works with the Verado :cool:

Hah. As for myself, I am not married yet, therefore I sense that I must splurge on this project. :D Hmm Optis or Verado.... I still have a little research to do I guess...

Thank you.

[Capt.Insane-o]

Hah. As for myself, I am not married yet, therefore I sense that I must splurge on this project. :D Hmm Optis or Verado.... I still have a little research to do I guess...

Thank you.


Hell you only live once....
http://www.mercuryracing.com/products/consumeroutboards/optimax300xs.php

[sosmerc]

Doesn't really matter what brand you put on there...sh@T happens and if you are going offshore you probably should consider increasing your odds of getting home in a reasonable amount of time. If I had that boat I would put twin 115 Merc Optimax motors on it. These engines are just as quiet and fuel efficient as their 4 stroke counterparts and have been around since 2004. They are a very "tight" block design ...no cylinder heads or exhaust or intake covers. Merc has taken full advantage of lost foam casting and built a very simple strong block design. I have sold a number of these engines and they have been trouble-free. As a bonus, they weigh less than their comparable 4 strokes and they are built right here in the good ol USA. They are SmartCraft ready, and you can use any steering system you like.
Note, if you choose to run twins, you should carry a spare prop of 4 inches less pitch so that if necessary, you can easily get the boat up on plane with one engine. The other option is to be sure to prop your rig so that you are "on the rev limiters" with both engines running...this improves the chances that if you need to run on a single at speed, you MIGHT be able to get on plane without taxing the engine if you are unable to swap to a lower pitch prop for the trip home.

[The Big Al]

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[The Big Al]

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