PDA

View Full Version : Painting MADEFI MIDS????



Liquid Force
09-10-2006, 02:11 PM
Hi guys,

I have just bought a couple of 15in mids from MADEFI, they are in a bare/raw state.

Can someone tell me the best way to prepare them for paint, and what is the mercury balc colour code? I want these things to look mint!!

Cheers

James

The Big Al
09-10-2006, 02:34 PM
Have them powder coated.

This is the bast way!

ProComp
09-10-2006, 02:48 PM
Curious what your using for a clamp and trim with those 15's?

I powder coated my last mid and it looked mint.

Liquid Force
09-10-2006, 02:58 PM
I never thought about powdercoating them... How durable is that going to be in saltwater though?

Pro Comp, using 15in saddles from a 2.5 offshore, gives you another 2 inch of setback and no clearence issues.

Liquid Force
09-10-2006, 03:25 PM
I was just reading another thread and it basically said don't powdercoat them...
These mids will run hot (drystacked and offshore exhaust) and be used in saltwater, they need to be super durable.

LakeRacer99
09-19-2006, 08:38 AM
Just curious why someone would not think powder coat paint will hold up. I think it is the best way to do it.

Fast Fig
09-19-2006, 07:26 PM
I've painted many engines, and parts in my day, and I must say, with the proper materials and preparation a painted engine will give powdercoating a run for it's money.

LakeRacer99
09-20-2006, 03:15 PM
Yep, Technically, it is still paint and 90% of it is good prep work.

MODXR6
09-20-2006, 03:26 PM
Powdercoat or paint, both can look very good. Those mids must have hi temp paint though. Offshore type mids will run hotter, at least I know mine does & it's starting to discolor slightly.

David - WI
09-20-2006, 03:28 PM
Eastwood Co. offers their "Satin Black" powder in a "Hi-Temp" version that withstands 1000F (1200f peak).

http://www.eastwoodco.com/images/email_images/ST_SatinBlack.jpg

http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=91&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=844&iSubCat=850&iProductID=91

inspectorlance
09-20-2006, 03:33 PM
I just happen to be talking to Wayne Taylor on the phone after reading this post. My interpitation is : Its kinda a yes / no answer. Yes it will hold if you have a quality powder coat shop that etches, and primes it properly, and also uses an epoxy material. We all know that things are not allway perfect, and a good shops work may peel. So it really comes down to the prep job, and quality materials. sure it will work, but maybe it will peel.

Lance

Bruster
09-20-2006, 05:48 PM
I think powder coat is the WRONG answer for your mids. Get 1 nick (you will) and they will corrode under the plastic. Repair is nearly impossible with out starting over.

Here's what I do. The materials are pretty much from a Mercury Service Manual, not my idea. I like to start by having the parts plastic media blasted. Plastic is the least (or one of the least) damaging ways to proper prep aluminium for paint.
I prime with PPG DP epoxy primer Sand with 600 wet and topcoat with PPG single stage "Concept" Acrylic Urethane topcoat. If you want something really nice I'll carefully sand the topcoat with 1000 the next day and recoat with 1 well reduced coat of color. No CLEAR.

This is what you get :D

<img src=http://home.comcast.net/~mercmanwon/taylor6>

inspectorlance
09-20-2006, 06:15 PM
Does the : get and nick and it will corrode only count for salt water or does it also go for fresh water ??

Lance

Bruster
09-20-2006, 06:40 PM
Does the get 1 nick and it will corrode only count for salt water or does it also go for fresh water ??

Lance

Salt water is the worst, but the corrision happens in fresh too.;)

inspectorlance
09-21-2006, 01:03 AM
Paint or powder coat will both corrode when there is a chip, So the real consern is how easy it is to reapir. Paint easy, powder coat diffacult.

I might still powdercoat mine, and just not chip it :)

MODXR6
09-21-2006, 08:01 AM
Confused about the plastic statement. Don't understand about plastic on a midsection. All tech specs I've read powdercoat isn't plastic. Maybe I'm missing something.

Fast Fig
09-21-2006, 11:59 AM
Confused about the plastic statement. Don't understand about plastic on a midsection. All tech specs I've read powdercoat isn't plastic. Maybe I'm missing something.
Bruster mentions about a plasic repair, meaning patch/filler...etc. Quite frankly It has always been my understanding that powdercoating is a dry form of application to an electrical charged alloy component which is then baked to fuse these particals together as a coating, hense using regular fillers wont work(need to use a metal base filler ) regular fillers would not be cunductive, so his statement inconclusive, yet accurate when he says powder coating is unrepairable if thats infact what he meant. By the way Bruster beautiful job on that Merc. it does look glossier than new. Peace! FIG

David - WI
09-21-2006, 12:15 PM
Powdercoat is plastic powder that's "melted" together to form the coating... there are epoxy, polyurethane, polyester and probably other types of plastics used.

There are fillers that work under powdercoat... Hi-Temp LabMetal is the one that we use:
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=577&itemType=PRODUCT

The Big Al
09-21-2006, 01:25 PM
powder coating is a bonding to the surface.

Also 1000 times stronger than paint, if done correctly, and metal is clean and prepped you can hit power coat with a hammer, you will dent it, but not chip it.

The only way to remove correctly applied powder coat is to sandblast it.
Also if you do damage an area than has been powder coated, it will not chip further like paint. It is bonded to the surface.

AL

David - WI
09-21-2006, 02:01 PM
powder coating is a bonding to the surface.

Also 1000 times stronger than paint, if done correctly, and metal is clean and prepped you can hit power coat with a hammer, you will dent it, but not chip it.

The only way to remove correctly applied powder coat is to sandblast it.
Also if you do damage an area than has been powder coated, it will not chip further like paint. It is bonded to the surface.

AL

Not necessarily.

The different types of power have different properties... some are not UV resistant and won't hold up outdoors very well at all. Others are harder but more brittle... and some can be used in greater thickness than others.

You can find lots of info here:
http://www.caswellplating.com/powder/tgic.html
http://www.caswellplating.com/powder/poly.html
http://www.caswellplating.com/powder/epoxy.html
http://www.caswellplating.com/powder/hybrid.html

The high temperature stuff is relatively new, I believe.

Liquid Force
09-21-2006, 08:01 PM
It seems like a 50/50 call, I think in the end I will paint it, reason being is none of the manufactures powdercoat them OEM and I would imagine that would be cheaper for them, there must be a reason why they don't.

Talking of the high temp coatings I have just had the MADEFI tuners done in high temp ceramachrome to keep the heat in them and try and lower the temp's on the outside of the midsection, wether it's in paint or powdercoat.

GelcoatJoe
10-29-2006, 10:34 AM
bigest mistake i ever did, one runand bubbles and lifting.....never again wit this garbage,go paint.......

Bruster
10-29-2006, 06:12 PM
powder coating is a bonding to the surface.

Also 1000 times stronger than paint, if done correctly, and metal is clean and prepped you can hit power coat with a hammer, you will dent it, but not chip it.

The only way to remove correctly applied powder coat is to sandblast it.
Also if you do damage an area than has been powder coated, it will not chip further like paint. It is bonded to the surface.

AL

It's not the further chipping, it's the fact the aluminium will corrode where the powder coat isn't. There are 100 good reasons to use (ther correct) paint on a midsection and only a handful to P/C I am sure there will be a few more here who will still try it anyway. :confused:

dan1731
10-29-2006, 06:15 PM
Mine is powdercoated and looks fine:)

GelcoatJoe
11-01-2006, 08:17 PM
sure you mid looks good now, wait till it chips and rolls off like wal paper....let us know how it looks then....

jphii
11-01-2006, 08:24 PM
Has anyone thought to call Wayne and get his opinion? Has anyone ever seen a mid that has come powercoated from any factory or aftermarket supplier?

Kinda makes you wonder....

dan1731
11-01-2006, 09:28 PM
sure you mid looks good now, wait till it chips and rolls off like wal paper....let us know how it looks then....

Ill let you know, but dont hold your breath:rolleyes:

inspectorlance
11-02-2006, 01:43 PM
I just happen to be talking to Wayne Taylor on the phone after reading this post. My interpitation is : Its kinda a yes / no answer. Yes it will hold if you have a quality powder coat shop that etches, and primes it properly, and also uses an epoxy material. We all know that things are not allway perfect, and a good shops work may peel. So it really comes down to the prep job, and quality materials. sure it will work, but maybe it will peel.

Lance


This is what i posted on the first page.

Lance

jphii
11-02-2006, 02:01 PM
Damm, I missed it. I'd still go paint. I'll try to get a picture of a friends mid that hey painted using Mercury spray paint, of all things. It looks like it was done in a body shop, and it get used a lot. Cost about 40 bucks.

steve
11-02-2006, 02:28 PM
We're going to have them alodined before the primer and paint. From my experience, the local powder coat shop coatings don't hold up well to carb cleaner and other solvents like many of the better paints do. Maybe its just the materials these shops use. In any case, alodine them first. Merc does.

inspectorlance
11-02-2006, 02:31 PM
what is alodined ??

steve
11-02-2006, 03:00 PM
the gold colored coating that Merc uses on all the blocks etc. Not anodizing, alodining in case there is confusion. It helps paint adhere better and protects against corrosion.

wideglide55
11-02-2006, 03:24 PM
Zinc chromate etching primer is the only primer I know that will stay on aluminum.It is that lovely military green color.

steve
11-02-2006, 03:42 PM
Alodining is not primer. Primer goes on over top, then paint. Google it.

ultrafast
11-02-2006, 03:49 PM
I HAVE DONE SEVERAL OF wAYNES MIDS AND THEY ARE RUNNING IN SALT WATER. sOME ARE THREE-FOUR YEARS OLD. ZINC CHROMATE. OMNI EPOXY PRIMER THEN PPG CONCEPT. WORKS GREAT

GelcoatJoe
11-02-2006, 10:28 PM
paint is the way to go, use the correct primer.....i has a few mids done, rainbow powercoating deerpark new york, and tried colorlife in hicksville new york and both places blow.....never never again...it got me so pist i sold the boat.....

inspectorlance
11-03-2006, 12:21 AM
well it sounds like Wayne was right. If you do it wrong it will just peel !!! IT HAS TO BE DONE RIGHT WITH THE RIGHT PRODUCTS !! just like ultrafast stated. There is a right way, and a wrong way.

Lance

K-Dawg
01-05-2007, 02:39 AM
I've powdercoated lots of stuff for immersion service in saltwater, work for the navy. If done correctly the stuff is bullet proof. But, if its going to see high temps make sure you got the right stuff. Paint can be chipped just as easy as powder. If it peels off like wall paper then you should go get a refund from the guy who powdered it. If the powder chips repair it the same way you would a paint chip. Lightly scuff (feather) the prime and paint it. It ain't gonna hurt the powder with a little spot of paint and yes paint will stick to it. The key is prepperation just like paint. Ya gotta use the correct media to blast the peices with. Aluminum oxide don't leave a residue (surface contamination) then ya take some xylene and spray it on with a squirt bottle and blow it off with air nozzle till its dry. Then you end up with the cleanest peice of metal and just begg'in for some powder. You can heat it and shoot it hot for a thicker coat or let the electricity do the work and shoot it cold then heat it. But, if not done right it can end up being really brittle. good luck