Barracuda Tunnel Project

[Oregon Barracuda]

This Fall will be the beginning of a makeover project for my 16' 1970 Barracuda Tunnel using the same 1969 1250 MERC.
I am the original owner. I have obtained a 6" setback bracket, had the gearcase re-worked by Bob's Machine in FL to move the water pickup to the bottom of the nosecone. We are running with a foot throttle & power trim on the steering now.
My Son owns a 16' 1972 Barracuda Tunnel that came with a 1500 MERC.
He will be using a MERC 225 EFI V6 with racing exhaust tower & full shift/low water pickup gearcase for his project.
Kind of a Father/Son deal.
Will post progress updates periodically with possible pictures.

[Raceman]

Hi O B. Welcome to S & F. I hope you'll post pictures of the projects before and after.

I also hope that y'all are experienced enough to realize the dangers of putting today's power on a 60's/70's technology tunnel. I'm not familiar with the Baracuda, but many of the early tunnels had a lot of lift (angle of attack) in the tunnel to get max speed from the low horse engines of that time period, and putting a V6 on one can be a near Russian Rulett type excersize. Good luck with the projects, but be especially careful with the overpowered one.

[ssmith007]

Guys, please reconsider your choice of power. I'm no expert but Raceman is. He's being nice and no one wants to hurt your feelings or curb your wonderful enthusiasm for this project and our sport. But he's telling you that is too much power. It could blow over and severly injure (or worse) the driver. Please do a search for Magnum Missle on this site and read some of the horror stories. Norris, please get Parker to tell his story about overpowered older tunnel hulls. Please post pics of the boat, especially the tunnel and let these guys with a lifetime of exp. and knowlege give you some good advice. Your post gives me a bad feeling. Good luck and be safe. Smitty

[raymar]

Stay away from the V-6 power on this boat!! Blowovers come easy with a lot of weight on the transom and excess power. Listen to these guys and live!!

[Oregon Barracuda]

Like I said in the project blurb, I've owned this same boat from the day it was built. A big part of this endeavor includes using a 'Tunnel Hull Program' to help take most of the guess work out of it. We plan to re-work the tunnels & sponsons quite a bit. All testing will be done using the 1250 & the 1500 MERCS. The V6 won't even be considered until we have fine-tuned the hulls, if even then. We aren't suicidal.
The builder realized the risk of a tunnel in the hands of the average weekend boater and they designed a fair amount of "hook" into the bottom to keep the nose down.
The year after I bought my boat, the owner of the Co. raced one using two 1250 Mercs. They named it "POPCORN" and it ran away from everything on the water that day. Not many people knew what a 'tunnel' was in those days.
Believe me, I'm not crazy, I just want to end up with an older boat that looks real good and totally stock from the water line up but has benefitted from 36 years of technology. My wife and I really enjoy cruising along and not having to slow down for other boat wakes. People are always surprised at how smooth it rides, especially in choppier water. If I can figure out how to post some pix, I will.
PS: This is NOT a Carlson hull.................mucho better.

[Mark75H]

PS: This is NOT a Carlson hull..................Carlson's aren't particularly known for bad manners compared to the boats known as Magnum copies

[outboard bob]

Carlson's aren't particularly known for bad manners compared to the boats known as Magnum copies
There was a 15' Carlson (Conroy) tunnel race boat with a 1500 xs with an ssm at Clayton that ran quite well. It will be an every year event for the next 3 years at Clayton so be there next season Mk 75. Bob

[Jeff_G]

Oregon Barracuda, The only advice I can give you is to be real careful. You can not use a 1250 or 1500 to set up a boat for the v-6. Impossible and dangerous. I would like to put a v-8 in my Austin Healey but......
The 1500 can be made very reliable and will work much better. My 2 cents worth.....

[Mark75H]

I've had a few days to think about this and came up with the issue that too many people are not aware of with increasing the power on older tunnels of this type.

The thing that causes the loss of control flips is the angle of the center deck/bottom aerodynamic wing vs the angle of the hydrodynamic running pads. These boats were designed for 135 hp or less and have aerodynamic lift/angle optimized for the 70 mph speed you can attain with that much horsepower. To safely run faster than 70 mph the aerodynamic element would have to have it's angle of attack reduced, but doing so puts the wet section at too low of an angle to be effective .... in simpler terms when you try to trim the motor for the bottom of the boat, you over trim the air lift and go over. No amount of pad hook can hold the wing from flipping when you have acheived full lift speed.

The only way to correct this would be to saw off the bottoms of the running surfaces and redo them with angle of attack suitable for more power .... much easier and safer to just buy a newer boat made for a V-6.

Use Jim Russell's software and you will see that the changes needed to run that deck/wing over 70 mph are going to call for more work to the pads than is practical. I agree with Jeff, no amount of testing with lower power will predict what is going to happen with excessive power and speed.

[T2x]

I've had a few days to think about this and came up with the issue that too many people are not aware of with increasing the power on older tunnels of this type.

The thing that causes the loss of control flips is the angle of the center deck/bottom aerodynamic wing vs the angle of the hydrodynamic running pads. These boats were designed for 135 hp or less and have aerodynamic lift/angle optimized for the 70 mph speed you can attain with that much horsepower. To safely run faster than 70 mph the aerodynamic element would have to have it's angle of attack reduced, but doing so puts the wet section at too low of an angle to be effective .... in simpler terms when you try to trim the motor for the bottom of the boat, you over trim the air lift and go over. No amount of pad hook can hold the wing from flipping when you have acheived full lift speed.

The only way to correct this would be to saw off the bottoms of the running surfaces and redo them with angle of attack suitable for more power .... much easier and safer to just buy a newer boat made for a V-6.

Use Jim Russell's software and you will see that the changes needed to run that deck/wing over 70 mph are going to call for more work to the pads than is practical. No amount of testing with lower power will predict what is going to happen with excessive power.

Or...........you could simply use part throttle and be careful. The temptation to push "just a little more"...can be fatal , however. I suggest you put a max speed on your hull...say 70-75...or whatever was the competitive speed of the day...and stay under that limit. In that regard be sure you use a GPS since water pressure speedos were known to slow....as the hull rose out of the water........

T2x........ in this case the pot calling the kettle black;)

[Oregon Barracuda]

Thanks for the feedback. You are right, you can't use the inline 6 setup for the V6.
That boat is my son's. He said he most likely will be using the V6 on a new boat in the future, designed to handle it.
He has been racing hydros for years, 25XS, 25SS, C-stock, 400 OSY, APBA

[Oregon Barracuda]

Thank you for the feedback and sage advice. I just loaded Jim Russel's program and will most likely come to the same conclusion. I'm glad I registered on this site, it seems there is a wealth of knowledge out there.
Realistically speaking, do you see a problem with removing the "hook" that was built into the running surface of the sponsons ? The builder told me years ago that it would be hard to get into trouble running a 1250. I would llke to improve the hull to the point I don't have to run as much 'up trim' to overcome the 'hook'. Does Jim's program have the ability to calculate the 'hook' factor.
Thanks again for your reply.

[Oregon Barracuda]

Thank you for the feedback.
Point taken. I will continue to use my 1250, only I would like to run with less 'hook' in the running surface so I can use less up-trim and hopefully get a flatter attitude.
How much would I benefit from adding "steps" in the running surface. Seems like a good way to reduce the "wetted surface".

[Fish]

Hey Oregon, welcome to S&F. There is a wealth of extremely knowledgeable folks here. I think many people would be surprised if they really knew who some of the people on this site are behind the screen names.

I saw above you are having some problems with posting pics, if you would like to email them to me I will post them for you.

Both boats sound like great projects and nothing beats a good father son experience. I look forward to seeing the project as it develops.

BTW, here is the magnum missile pic mentioned above.

[Oregon Barracuda]

Yea, me too, I guess. (Obsolete & proud of it)
I'm 64, a Grandfather, and still love my old boat. One thing is for sure, no one else has one like mine. It gets quite a few comments.

[Fish]

my dad is 64 and a grandfather too, was also a former national champion tunnel boat racer. Here he is getting behind the wheel of a tunnel (my stv) for the first time in over 30 years. He was like a little kid; once it is in your blood you never lose it IMHO. Things are a little different with todays boats, but the thrill is undoubtedly still the same.

fish

[largecar91]

Jim Russell's info can be a wealth of knowledge. I talked to Jim several times when building my SST 120 boat. I would think that removing most of the positive lift would help a lot as speeds increase as far as safety goes. As said before in this thread, the angle of attack needs to be pretty flat or you will run into problems.

[outboard bob]

Or...........you could simply use part throttle and be careful. The temptation to push "just a little more"...can be fatal , however. I suggest you put a max speed on your hull...say 70-75...or whatever was the competitive speed of the day...and stay under that limit. In that regard be sure you use a GPS since water pressure speedos were known to slow....as the hull rose out of the water........

T2x........ in this case the pot calling the kettle black;)
Rich you are not saying that you are over powering your wing are you.

[T2x]

Rich you are not saying that you are over powering your wing are you.

Heavens no...but when we run methanol and nitrox....we might:D :D

T2x

[Oregon Barracuda]

Readin' ya loud and clear on that issue.
Gotta keep the nose down.

[Oregon Barracuda]

Your Dad looks good for a Grandpa.
He sure does look familiar. I'll bet I've heard of him.
We helped the Newberg, OR Boat Club with a Grand Prix they held on the Willamette River in Portland quite awhile ago. I got to hold (using a stand-off pole) Bill Seebold's boat ! That was alot of fun.

[Fish]

here ya go Oregon Barracuda. That is a really cool looking boat, best of luck on the project and please keep us updated.

Fish

[Fish]

hee it is again cropped and enhanced

[Jeff_G]

I would bet the hook in the pads are there to compensate for the excessive aerodynamic lift of the tunnel. If you take the hook out then the boat is liable to become even more unstable.
I would like to add one additional thing. The key to a fast winning race boat is set up, always has been and always will be. If you can't get around the course, or can't take advantage of the HP you will lose. I don't care how much HP you have if the boat can't handle it you have nothing. With a V-6 you are adding almost another 100# to the boat in the one area you don't need it. To compensate you may have to add 25 to 50% of that weight elsewhere, and still not get the balance right. But what the heck do I know?

[Oregon Barracuda]

Point well taken, Jeff.
As I said in a recent reply, the V6 will NOT be used during the hull 'setup & rework' project on my boat, my 1250 will be. It is a short shaft, has had Bob's Machine Shop nosecone low water pickup mod completed & has solid motor mounts.
The 225 V6 belongs to my Son. He will be using his 1500 Merc for his project, exact same boat, 2 years newer than mine.
He knows the V6 is most likely too much motor for this. He does have boat racing expericence: APBA Hydroplane, 25XS, OSY400, C Stock Hydro, etc.

[2us70]

I see by the pictures that you have Magnum Missle copy. I am one of the old timers who was racing when those boats were new.Just about everybody who got them going fast enough blew them over.

[Fish]

2us70, I was wondering about the similarity to the missle too. The cockpit, seating and stern look very similar, but is the bow of the boat a little different? Kinda hard to tell from the picture, but it sort of looks like it is pointier than the missle was. Any thoughts?

[2us70]

They had to make some changes in order to avoid being a direct copy.Deck mods are easier than hull changes.

[Raceman]

I see by the pictures that you have Magnum Missle copy. I am one of the old timers who was racing when those boats were new.Just about everybody who got them going fast enough blew them over.

My friend Wally, who I've quoted a lot around here as a retired Merc employee had a Magnum Missle with a Twister 1 on it when I first met him. His brother had one also with a shortshaft 1500. Their first cousin in Fla. had one also, and I think they said it had a 1350 on it, but it could've been a 1500........ definately NOT a Twister or any other race motor. The cousin blew his over and killed himself in it. It went in backwards so hard that it drove all the sparkplugs through the rear of the cowl. The two brothers both sold their boats not long after. Every time the Missle/V6 topic has come up around here I've posted the opinion that I think it's suicidal to do it, experienced boat racer or not. Those old tunnels with tons of lift built in the tunnel are sudden blow over risks without any warning according to people with a lot of experience in em, and it doesn't seem to take speeds much over high 60's for em to kite.

[ssmith007]

I can't find the post.....but when I saw it, it made a real impression on me. There was a picture of a guy, in a purple missle with a V6, idling holding a checkered flag. Somewhere on the post it says "this guy went through the speed traps at 114mph....airborne, upside down, backwards and was killed". Anyone remember that post? Like Norris says, these things will go over with an inline. Play safe. Maybe I'm a little upset by the accident in Tx. but I don't want to see anyone hurt. I doubt any experienced (professional) race driver would get in a missle with a V6. God Bless. Smitty

[ssmith007]

Hope this works; scroll down to rocket's post on the link below.

Is this one too? Yes probably a splash.

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69086&highlight=magnum+missle

The guy told me it was a "Carrera"!


This boat killed a guy at SITC about 6 years ago! He went through the traps at 118MPH upside down!

How do I copy a pic from another post and paste it here?

Thanks. Smitty
__________________

[challenger24]

just bought a 1968 16ft tunnel and cant wait to run it, but you guys got me kinda thinking I shoulndt push it. pics are in general discusion under 68 mallo.

[MN4V]

If you'd like to see some video of your boat back when it raced, go to this link
http://www.assist.neptune.com/#
Then go to #39 (David M Potter) and pick the Northwest Racing 1971 - 72
Shows your boat with two engines. I can't tell what they are, but they look like they have speedmasters.
Mark









Like I said in the project blurb, I've owned this same boat from the day it was built. A big part of this endeavor includes using a 'Tunnel Hull Program' to help take most of the guess work out of it. We plan to re-work the tunnels & sponsons quite a bit. All testing will be done using the 1250 & the 1500 MERCS. The V6 won't even be considered until we have fine-tuned the hulls, if even then. We aren't suicidal.
The builder realized the risk of a tunnel in the hands of the average weekend boater and they designed a fair amount of "hook" into the bottom to keep the nose down.
The year after I bought my boat, the owner of the Co. raced one using two 1250 Mercs. They named it "POPCORN" and it ran away from everything on the water that day. Not many people knew what a 'tunnel' was in those days.
Believe me, I'm not crazy, I just want to end up with an older boat that looks real good and totally stock from the water line up but has benefitted from 36 years of technology. My wife and I really enjoy cruising along and not having to slow down for other boat wakes. People are always surprised at how smooth it rides, especially in choppier water. If I can figure out how to post some pix, I will.
PS: This is NOT a Carlson hull.................mucho better.

[Old fiberglass]

The Barracuda appears to be a splash of the Dutchman with some obvious changes. The Dutchman version was raced with twin Merc 1250's. The boat on the left with twins is a Dutchman.

Just recently picked up a Barracuda.

[Mark75H]

And the boat in the middle is a Carlson racer with 2 Mercs ... looks like a handful:eek:

[Old fiberglass]

A little more to the story is Jan Schooover is driving the Dutchman. Jan got the red T40 wing, (made in 1966) on loan from Mercury when it was brand new. Ran it at Saltan Sea in 1967 and Havasu ~ 1967. Bob Massey got it from Mercury when Jan turned it back in to them. In the picture Bob is running against Jan in it. Just a bit of trivia.

[Bob V]

A little more to the story is Jan Schooover is driving the Dutchman. Jan got the red T40 wing, (made in 1966) on loan from Mercury when it was brand new. Ran it at Saltan Sea in 1967 and Havasu ~ 1967. Bob Massey got it from Mercury when Jan turned it back in to them. In the picture Bob is running against Jan in it. Just a bit of trivia.

I bet that those drivers never would have imagined that forty some years later they would still hold the fascination of so many. Quite a tribute to all of those that piloted those great machines.

Rick....How is the wing progressing?

[2us70]

Who is in the Carlson?

[Old fiberglass]

Dick Sherrer was racing the Carlson......more triva......Dick bought Massey Custom Marine after Bob passed away and renamed it Dick Sherrer Marine......still in business today.

[largecar91]

You Better Get Back To Work Rick Instead Of Screwing Around On This Computer! You Can't Make Any Money Playing Around!:d

[Old fiberglass]

:) :) :)

[arcticracer]

Oregon Barracuda:

Interesting to see your post here on your 1970 Barracuda, I had this exact same boat. Same year, everything. By the way, I grew up in Oregon racing stock outboards. Just yesterday I posted a thread on Boat Racing Facts in the "Show Us Your Boat" section.

I live in Fairbanks, Alaska and this boat was originally purchased by a local car dealer new. He kept it on a nearby lake where it spent many years I am told. Pretty sure he had an inline 6 on it. It changed hands a couple times later on, and eventually, I saw an ad in the paper for the boat, complete with a Merc 150 V6 with parts engine. I bought the works for $1700 and started the restoration. It was in rough shape. Rather than rewrite everything I will give you the link to my post at:

http://www.********************/forums/showthread.php?t=5452

I can see the experts here have chimed in here, so I won't add much. My "little voice" in my head is what kept me from seeing what the boat would do. I never went over 70 with it. After getting spooked I sold the boat but would not sell the engine with it, the buyer put a 90 on it, perfect combination I think.

Anyway, here is a photo of "Miss Barraduda".

[gemini]

Hey Rick , give me a call I have something you can use. 512 791 6328 or 325 388 6681

[jlf56]

Gemini;
If you don't mind me asking, who are you ?? I lived in Spicewood from 1980 to 1988 Spicewood Beach. I drove for Glastron from 1968 to 1971.
Worked with Harold Wilderson. Do you know "Meatball Murry"??

Joe Fielder

[Old fiberglass]

The first paragraph of this article indicates at least one Barracuda was raced with twin 125's back in the day.

[moparbarn]

hey fish, i was in the stands for that race! do you remember he went up and past vertical, caught the tops of the cowls, luckily dragging him back down partway, just to gas it and go right on over? imo, he could have saved it, if not for the hairtrigger on the throttle. on of my favorite race/crash pics. sure wish we could watch races in the marine stadium again.

[mark benson]

Dear Oregon Barracuda- In the early '70's I pit crewed for #226 Dave Potter Molinari/Mercury from Seattle Wash. I have alot of super 8mm movie footage of outboard tunell hull racing in the Pacific Northwest in the '70's. I personally knew Johnny Adair # 720 " Popcorn" from Seattle who raced in the 70's in the yellow dual Mercury Barracuda. A perfect example of a OPC (outboard pleasure craft). Stock boat- stock engines (c/w speedmasters). Raced for points nearly every weekend. Very reliable rig! If you E-mail me at [email protected] with your # or more imformation, I might have footage of Barracudas in the pits or racing. Our site is www.gosee.tv/boatracing (http://www.gosee.tv/boatracing) Mark Benson - Producer Vancouver British Columbia Canada

[mark benson]

Here is the thread on Barracuda Tunnel Hull boats made in Portland, Oregon in the '70's

[Ryan503]

Can someone tell me some history about these boats my title says myer but people say barracuda. Im the only one that has one around here. 1974 myer is mine.can someone help me out thanks send me pictures [email protected]

[150aintenuff]

ttt.... only because i may be going against all reccomendations and getting one and adding a 150 promax SS to it.... at what speeds was blow over common... 60, 70, 70+ boat is temporary.... until i can find something better for the SS or rebuild the hydrostream

[Ryan503]

anybody 220689no how much this boats are worth. this is mine 1974 myer tunnel hull second owner been sitting for 13 years and i finlly got my hands on it thanks220688

[Old fiberglass]

The Barracuda is a copy of the Dutchman tunnel. The hull has run slightly over 100 MPH with twin inlines. I believe the biggest problem folks get into is running the motor at too much of a positive angle pushing the nose up too high causing blow overs. The hull was designed around the inline Mercs power of that period running at a slight negative or netural position.

[Ryan503]

you still have your boat

[150aintenuff]

Rigging the cuda...... 150 ss went away :( but a 20 in is here so riser is gunna go on and studs to mount engine will work until i can shorten..... bought the silver hull paul mayer used to have..... it is yellowed but still kinda pretty so debating what colors to do to freshen being gel is toast... but alas.... its getting a 150 2.5l mariner supermag think xr6 and a 1.87 cle for now... had the boat to long to not atleast go play until a 150xs is found.....

[Ryan503]

Thats a good looking boat. Have the same one been setting for 13 years. finally got my hands on it. Put new interior. Took it out 10 times then transom out rodded. I'm the second owner love this boat. Got a 78 200 black max second owner. You live around troutdale. If so I would like to see your boat. How fast you been. Thanks

[transomsaver]

Rigging the cuda...... 150 ss went away :( but a 20 in is here so riser is gunna go on and studs to mount engine will work until i can shorten..... bought the silver hull paul mayer used to have..... it is yellowed but still kinda pretty so debating what colors to do to freshen being gel is toast... but alas.... its getting a 150 2.5l mariner supermag think xr6 and a 1.87 cle for now... had the boat to long to not atleast go play until a 150xs is found.....

Looks cool! How's it run?

[Ryan503]

by the way you still have your barracuda?

[Ryan503]

barracuda for sale hull trailer only $1000

[Ryan503]

starting my transom tomorrow. hopefully it will be done by the 4

[Ryan503]

you still have you barracuda?

[Ryan503]

[How fast these boats go and what kind of jack plate should I use for this kind of boat 74 barracuda 17 ft with78 blackmax 200hp second owner?. Thank

[Ryan503]

lets see what i can do here:confused: any help would be helpful from anyone that done something like this pictures, links, got my work cut out for me, but here in oregon i got time before the hot weather comes. thanks also anyone know the size of jack plate i should look into

[150aintenuff]

if your rigging the meyer tunnel do not jack plate it add a riser or use a short mid with setback they get really flighty.. i still have mine unrigged because of a steering system failure... not willing to try again until funds are higher


also do not use marine ply wood.... use thermalite from applied plastic machine off 26th and long in SE portland for transom and core they make sheets in up to 2" thick specifically for transom and stringer use.. its a composite that is all polyurethane based and rot free
not to mention lighter... if they require a wholesale account let me know i have one with them and can resell to you


Alanna

[Dnich06]

I have a 1971 barracuda tunnel hull with a 1976 mercury 1500 on it. I am struggling to get it set up correctly and need any help I can get. It currently has a 13.5 inch 17p prop and planing is slow with a top speed of 45 mph at 5400 rpm. Seems like I should be getting into the 60 mph range with this. Any thoughts?
544720

[WaterZebra]

I have a 1971 barracuda tunnel hull with a 1976 mercury 1500 on it. I am struggling to get it set up correctly and need any help I can get. It currently has a 13.5 inch 17p prop and planing is slow with a top speed of 45 mph at 5400 rpm. Seems like I should be getting into the 60 mph range with this. Any thoughts?
544720

Planing is probably slow because a 17P prop is working on too much thrust. Try at least a 20P and put a straight edge board between the sponsons and check where your gearcase bullet is. It may be too low. I wouldn't recommend a jack plate but a 76 Merc inline can usually be raised a liitle bit (1/2 inch?) on the transom to put a shim board atop the transom edge provided the bottom most bolt locations were not used. (without drilling). Test very carefully then make the changes permanently. A 1500 short shaft sould be able to swing at least a 22P?

[FUJIMO]

...somethings off. can you post a photo or two of the back of the boat & engine. your performance "may" indicate you have 20'' shaft engine on the boat, when it should have a 15'' shaft length engine. or something else. your wide open throttle r.p.m. should be 5,800 plus. lots of things to know first...

[Ryan503]

Are you still on here?

[Ryan503]

Where are you located in Oregon? I have a prop for sale