'64 mustang engine?

[Alan Power]

Ok, my first post in this part of the forum:D Maybe some of you guys can help me as nobody here can tell me for sure!

I've been offered a 1964 mustang coupe for a song but it has no engine, apparently this car is SUPER clean, 5k original miles but needs exterior tidying up.

Anyway my question is, will a small block chev fit into this car, as US ford blocks are hard to come by here and theres plenty of SBC's around. Also if anyone knows if a european ford V6 will fit? Would like to get the car on the road asap, until I can source a correct engine for it.

Many thanks, Alan

[1BadAction]

SBC would be an excellent engine. of course it would fit, with a little welding.

of course im going to get blackballed from the ford guys for saying that.

[Raceman]

A smallblock Chevy could be made to fit, but I'd guess you'd have to whack on the shock towers some, since the Ford is narrower. I don't know about the car value situation in Ireland, but in the US you'd be taking a fairly desirable/valuable car and shooting it between the eyes to cross breed the engine. Is it prohibitively expensive to get a small block Ford shipped from the US? The interned is full of Ford crate engines that are ready to bolt in and go with readily available parts.

[PROGRESSIVEAUTO]

Blackballed, or not, that is all he has available. Do some measuring first. Engine compartment, then measure a mock up block, and trans. I know of a 1995 Mustang coupe that is sporting a sbc. This car runs awesome! Only problem I can think of that could be a bear is the exhaust. As mentioned above, alot of custom fab work is going to be a definate must!! Driveshaft, headers, motor mounts, firewall [maybe], trans mount,etc. This would definatly be a challenging project! But, a cool one!! I was a Ford man for years, but honestly have had the best luck with Bowties on land. Best of luck to you.;)

[PROGRESSIVEAUTO]

Have to agree with RACEMAN. Chances are the shock towers will need a brief trim job also, then will have to be filled in with flat sheet metal. And also on the crate engines. However, I checked awhile back on shipping a steering setup to Norway, and shipping was astronomical.

[10.5' Tunnel]

I've seen a bbc in a fox body mustang, it got lots of attention;)

[Alan Power]

with a little welding.

Yeah!, that's the part I'm not so sure about:confused: when I'm not sure what's supposed to conect to what and line up where, what do I weld and to where :confused: aagghhhhhh! I'm gettin' confused thinking about it:rolleyes: :D

Basicaly will it bolt in? and if not can it be done realatively easy?

I know some of the later mustangs had lower capacity EU type V6's maybe one of those would be a better choice, I don't want to butcher the car to make another engine fit so I can bolt in the right engine when I find one.

Anyway, I'm not 100% sure I'll take on the car, don't know if I fancy a project like this at the moment, but want to try and find out what's involved before I decide.

Thanks;)

[1BadAction]

i find it ironic that the fastest mustang at the local 1/8th mile is notch back fox-body with a de-stroked 400sbc :eek:

[Alan Power]

I don't know about the car value situation in Ireland, but in the US you'd be taking a fairly desirable/valuable car and shooting it between the eyes to cross breed the engine. Is it prohibitively expensive to get a small block Ford shipped from the US? The interned is full of Ford crate engines that are ready to bolt in and go with readily available parts.

I have to agree with you on keeping it original, I don't like to butcher things, if it's an honest and needed improvement ok, but hacking somethink up to make it do is not me, I'd rather give the car a miss and let someone else do it right!

As for shipping a crate motor, I'm not sure! An o/b crate motor is about 1.5k + taxes, so I'd say it's around the same.

If I could find a decent motor in the UK I'd drive over and collect it, wouldn't be too bad and no tax inside the EU. But like I said I would like to get the car on the road in the mean time with another engine.

[mickeyjr]

i find it ironic that the fastest mustang at the local 1/8th mile is notch back fox-body with a de-stroked 400sbc :eek:


all that means is that coupe owner is either old school mentality or a broke dick!!!:rolleyes:

Go to any FFW event and you will see no shortage of small block Fords running solidly in 4s in the 1/8th....on 12.5 tires or smaller too!!!

[CDave]

I don't believe you will have to alter the shock towers. IIRC a 351C fits without shock tower mods. It will be tight though.
Here is a universal motor mount kit. http://www.tdperformance.com/pdfs/34-universal-Swapmounts.pdf

Here is a shock tower notching kit. http://www.rrs-online.com/shocktowerproducts.php

Why not stick a Merc 2.4 or 2.5 in there? :cool:

[ShorePounder]

Dave, I don't think the Cleveland fits in the 64-66 cars without some shock tower massaging. They widened things up in 67 to fit the FE motors and that made life easier. Remember, in '64 the BIG motor was a 260 :D

The SBC won't be a bolt in deal. Trans mount locations are different, engine mount locations are different, the decks are taller than the 289/302 which makes them wider. The Distributor location on the chevy puts it right up against the firewall. It's hard enough to get to the back of the intake with a Windsor motor and the distributor is out of the way, I can't imagine the fun you'd have with the distributor in the back. As said before, it can be done, it just ain't easy. I've seen a bunch of crossbreeds. BBC and SBC in Fox Mustang. Small mopar in 4th gen GM F-body(my favorite). And one street car that I wouldn't have believed if I hadn't seen the pics. A friggen blown 409 in a B-body Mopar (GTX I think).


Alan, what is the availability of Ford L6's The 170, 200 and 250 were all production motors for those cars. I don't know what the euro model equivalent would be to later model cars such as the Maverick, Grenada, Fairmont, and such, but those cars were also manufactured with straight 6's. into the early/mid 80's, the 250ci being the better candidate for future improvement as it uses the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the Windsor V8's

It'd be cool to see one of the 2.8 V6's out of a german Capri in an early stang. In a light car, it could be fun!

[Alan Power]

Shorepounder, thanks for that info ;) I'll look into a 250ci but again not to sure how I'll fair out in my search, not many cars over here are much above 2.5L, fuel prices here have been high for a long time and the Mavericks and such are all Diesel.

What about the capri or cortina engines? Would the bell housings fit the gearbox and engine mounts etc. I'm looking for something that will realitivley drop in without much fab work. There must be a lower capacity engine with the same external dimensions as the 289:confused:

Maybe I'll just look/call around some of the car yards and see if anything pops up, somebody must know where there is one of these engines!

Thanks guys, Alan:)

[Steven]

wouldnt a 302 bolt up like the older 260?

[eautosales]

id go fuel injected ford 5.0 88 on up reliable power

[ShorePounder]

Did you two even read the thread? :rolleyes:

The 260 actually had a slightly different bellhousing bolt pattern than the 302. If I remember right, the 5-bolt bellhousing continued into early 289 production.

Alan, The Capri engine is the 2.8L V6 right?

I'll concede this much to GM, most of the cars they built would accept damned near any engine that came off the line. Big, small, it'd take em all. Ford on the other hand spent most of it's time trying to figure out the best way to make things so utterly different that interchangeability(sp)would prove to be difficult, if not impossible.

You know, the more I think about it Alan, you may be in trouble if you go the L6 route. The L6's had a different frame perch. The 6cyl cars located the mounts further forward and used a different bracket to do so. Not only was it different between engines, but different between models or time periods. I know the V8 mounts from a '67 Mustang wouldn't work on a '74 Maverick so it may be an evolutionary thing.

IMHO Alan, the only thing that will bolt in and go, is whatever was bolted in and went from the factory. Very rarely if ever will you find a powertrain/chassis combination with as much as 40+ years separation that will just bolt together and go.

[CDave]

I seem to remember the 2.8 being a crappy engine. If ya wanna go the V6 route get a Ford 4.0.

[1BadAction]

Big, small, it'd take em all.

Hrmmm, I used to date a girl like that. :rolleyes:

[Alan Power]

Did you two even read the thread? :rolleyes:

The 260 actually had a slightly different bellhousing bolt pattern than the 302. If I remember right, the 5-bolt bellhousing continued into early 289 production.

Alan, The Capri engine is the 2.8L V6 right?

I'll concede this much to GM, most of the cars they built would accept damned near any engine that came off the line. Big, small, it'd take em all. Ford on the other hand spent most of it's time trying to figure out the best way to make things so utterly different that interchangeability(sp)would prove to be difficult, if not impossible.

You know, the more I think about it Alan, you may be in trouble if you go the L6 route. The L6's had a different frame perch. The 6cyl cars located the mounts further forward and used a different bracket to do so. Not only was it different between engines, but different between models or time periods. I know the V8 mounts from a '67 Mustang wouldn't work on a '74 Maverick so it may be an evolutionary thing.

IMHO Alan, the only thing that will bolt in and go, is whatever was bolted in and went from the factory. Very rarely if ever will you find a powertrain/chassis combination with as much as 40+ years separation that will just bolt together and go.

Thanks, that's a lot of info:cool: At least I know what I need now, I don't want to mess around with this one for long, special fabrication and all that:(
I will look around for a 289 or maybe a 302 V8 (as long as they are the same). I'll be going down to look at the car soon, hopefully, and will check on the vin number to see what was in it!

I don't know a lot about bigger motors and even less about the fords, chevy I know a bit but even 90% of those were marine aplications.

I was just looking for something to get the car on the road to take it to and from the workshop but I'll work around it and search for a motor for it!

Thanks guys, I'll report back with more info when I get it and how the car is, what shape it's in etc. and if I decide to go with it. I think it would be a fun project.

Thanks, Alan:cool:

[MERC1000]

We need to talk about this crossbreeding thing. The greatest thing in the world just happened in the NMCA. You need to go to fasteststreetcar.com and look at the Superbowl Shootout report for last weekend. Cameron Coble put a BBC and glide in a Mustang body and was put against a guy I know, John Kolivas, with a very similar equipped Mustang but with a 302 based small block Ford. Well, Kolivas spanked that azz, in front of God and everybody. I don't think this Chevy thing is such a good idea......

[ShorePounder]

I wish there was an easier solution. Check around with some guys over there, they may know something I don't about european Fords and powertrain combos. If there's something dimensionally the same as a Windsor V8 from mount to mount you could be in business.

How much of the V8 stuff made it over there over the years?

[The Big Al]

Your better off finding a SBF or purchasing and old LTD, Galaxie or truck with a SBF.

The SBC will fit, you must cut the towers, and it's best to have angle plug heads. If you do this you have done none reparable damage to the value of the car. Exh, is a nightmare. Tunnel of fllor will have to be madified unless you use a manual transmission or Powerglide.

I have done this. not worth the trouble, unless you have a engine sitting there ready to go.

Al

My 66 with 302 with GT40 Heads had to rebuild drivers side header, spark plugs were moved forward.

[Alan Power]

Not to worry, something will come up, they are around I just need to find 'em;) I found the car!

Shorepounder, there's not much in big V8 stuff over here at all, it's mainly a Jap market, a lot of German cars too. Fuel prices have always been much higher here than what you guys were used to, I remember when fuel was cheaper 10 years ago at .85 a litre ($1.08) now it's at 1.16 euro a litre ($1.5) so big engines were not the rage, a big engine here is 3.0 and you would be nuts to own one as your daily driver!

Also 99% of 4x4's, vans, trucks are diesel powered as until recently diesel was WAY cheaper than petrol/gas, it's now more expensive in most places but I don't know, never owned a diesel. The new thing here is running diesel engines on vegitable oil, the cheapo stuff from Lydl:D

Another restricting factor on the US cars comming over is we drive on the other side of the road (left) and to insure a LHD over here is considerably more unless it's a classic (25 yrs or more) which you can insure for practically nothing.

That being said there was always car nuts that brought the big stuff over anyway for whatever reason, although I am seeing a lot more older american cars on the road lately, and lot's of new ones too, Hummers, Rams, new mustangs, can't imagine what they cost to run.

We also pay road tax which is calculated on engine cyl. capacity, a 5.0 would be whoa, maybe 3k a year on tax:eek: Insurance is also based indirectly on engine size/power. This all kind of insured the big US stuff didn't realy take off over here. Driving through mainland Europe is a diferent story, (they drive on right and have dif. tax and insurance regs) you see lots of cool stuff:)

Anyway thanks guys, I would love to get the car, we'll see how it goes when I go take a look at it, I hope it's in reasonable condition. I hope theres not a big reason why the engine was sold out of it!

Thanks, Alan

[AirRide]

Worth it to keep it Ford powered. That way the car won't need to be altered in the engine compartment or transmission tunnel. The 64 1/2 was an early introduction of the 1965 Mustang The first month of production was May 1964. I know, I had one. The engines that were available were the 170 cu. in. six inline, the 260 V-8 & the 289 V-8. The rarest being the 260, as it was only a couple dollars more for the 289, so everyone bought the 289. In 1965 & 66, the most common engine was the six cylinder, as this car was sold mostly as simple transportation. All six cylinder cars had 4-lug wheels, all V-8 cars had 5-lug wheels. If I were you, I would at least try to install a 302 Ford engine & transmission, to keep it in the Ford family of power, if you can't locate an original year drivetrain. The 302 would be the same exact motor mounts & motor mount location as the original. Don't know about over there, but 302's, even older ones, are a dime a dozen over here in the U.S. Just my .02:) AirRide