View Full Version : 250 Challenge in B&WB mag
VERY interesting article in this month's Bass and Walleye mag. 250 Opti vs 250 Verado vs 250 Yam 4-stroke versus 250 Suzuki 4-stroke.
Long live the direct injected 2-strokes! Opti Won every category except noise. Verado won the noise category, but got much lower gas mileage than the rest. Performance of the others weren't too far down from the Opti, the 4-strokes are getting close...............................
That is a very interesting article. Also, the results were very similar to when B&WB compared the Yamaha 2-stroke HPDI to their 4-stroke a few years ago. Seems the smart thing to do is make a super quiet, super smooth DFI 2-stroke and quit fooling around with the 4-strokes. It appears the supercharging effort was for naught.
Stinky
07-04-2006, 09:17 AM
Since there was one 250 missing from the test, I think the title of the article was right on.
SHOW UP OR SHUT UP.
;)
Markus
07-04-2006, 09:32 AM
It appears the supercharging effort was for naught.
The supercharging allowed the Verado to come second to the Opti in top speed and acceleration. It also made the Verado the thirstiest engine by far.
dspencer
07-04-2006, 04:28 PM
The Yamaha was not rated best in mpg but in running at mid range and above it was.
Massbasser
07-05-2006, 07:28 AM
I haven't seen the article yet. My mailman must be reading it first. I would be most interested at the full burn at cruise, not WOT. How did these motors compare at 4000 RPM? This is where I would assume to see the 4 Stroke shine. Also what kind of boat was this on?
Stinky
07-05-2006, 11:02 AM
I haven't seen the article yet. My mailman must be reading it first. I would be most interested at the full burn at cruise, not WOT. How did these motors compare at 4000 RPM? This is where I would assume to see the 4 Stroke shine. Also what kind of boat was this on?
Ranger 620VS
Best Fuel Economy at cruise
XS 4.2 mpg @ 3000 rpm @ 24.99 mph
Suzuki 4.3 mpg @ 3000 rpm @ 24.7 mph
Yamaha 3.9 mpg @ 4000 rpm @ 33 mph
Verado 2.9 mpg @ 3000 rpm @ 19.7 mph
Average Fuel economy across the rpm range
XS 3.5 mpg
Suzuki 3.4 mpg
Yamaha 3.2 mpg
Verado 2.9 mpg
Why would you assume a 4 stroke would shine at cruise mpg????? You can't beat a stratified charge.:)
:cool:
jimmyb
07-05-2006, 11:16 AM
to further belabor the stratified charge benefits... look at fuel economy at idle (or 1000 rpm)
250XS=1000 rpm 5.9mph .8gph 7.4mpg
verado= 1000 rpm 5.5mph .9gph 6.1mpg
suzuki 250= 1000 rpm 5.3mph 1.7gph 3.1mpg
yamaha 250= 1000 rpm 4.7mph 1.5gph 3.1mpg
too bad those BRP boys didnt wanna show up and defend their info-mercial
1BadAction
07-05-2006, 11:17 AM
Since there was one 250 missing from the test, I think the title of the article was right on.
SHOW UP OR SHUT UP.
;)
too bad those BRP boys didnt wanna show up and defend their info-mercial
awesome. you 2 are my heroes.
long live the 2 stroke, I still stand by that the Verado is a PIG.
Though I have heard good things about the Suzuki and apparently this test makes it all true, pretty impressive motor.
Too bad BBD didn't show ( and I am not saying they would have won, as I know the guys that do the tests and they are totally inbiased, I just think it would have been interesting). Oh well.
RT
JWTjr.
07-05-2006, 01:33 PM
Twible, is that like being inbred? I resemble that remark!
All kidding aside, that was a good test. It's too bad BRP didn't show. They told us they would right up until the last minute, too. Just ridiculous.
That said, I just tested a 115 E-Tec on another Ranger. It really is a good running and performing engine. I have a 93 crossflow 100 on my kids' Baja; I would love to do a back to back swap to see what the performance and fuel economy difference is.
More to come...stay tuned. Hoping to do some more shootout work (engines and props) yet this summer.
JT
JT.......check it out!
Your old parts look good!
RT
Massbasser
07-05-2006, 01:42 PM
The 250XS is pretty impressive, but out of the 4 motors tried how many would still be running at 2500 Hours, at 5000 hours at 7500 hours? Do the 4 strokes out live the 2 strokes for the long haul? It seems to be the consensous with the offshore crowd. Performance wise the 2 stroke is better, but I don't think any of those 4 strokes will see much more than 60 or 70 MPH they seem to be more of a work horse than a race horse. There is a market for them. Those idle numbers are very impressive too. Wow.:eek:
Markus
07-05-2006, 01:42 PM
Twible, is that like being inbred? I resemble that remark!
All kidding aside, that was a good test. It's too bad BRP didn't show. They told us they would right up until the last minute, too. Just ridiculous.
That said, I just tested a 115 E-Tec on another Ranger. It really is a good running and performing engine. I have a 93 crossflow 100 on my kids' Baja; I would love to do a back to back swap to see what the performance and fuel economy difference is.
More to come...stay tuned. Hoping to do some more shootout work (engines and props) yet this summer.
JT
Were the manufacturers allowed to choose any prop they wanted, just like in the usual B&WB tests these days, or did they have to use their own OEM propellers?
jimmyb
07-05-2006, 01:53 PM
long live the 2 stroke, I still stand by that the Verado is a PIG.
Though I have heard good things about the Suzuki and apparently this test makes it all true, pretty impressive motor.
RT
verado is a pig? not really, it performed quite admirably, despite being the heaviest. It was only 1.5mph behind the 250XS in top speed and 3 mph faster than the nearest other 4-stroke competitor! 3 MPH on a 60 mph boat is HUGE. Acceleration was 2nd place to the 250XS as well...
as for the suzuki being an impressive motor, it was LAST in mid range accel (3.3 sec behind the 250xs in 30-50mph) and LAST in top speed... almost 6 mph behind the 250XS and almost 5 mph behind the verado... what's impressive about that?????
as for long term durablity... the 250XS has some pretty impressive hours racked up by the SKA tournament guys...
verado is a pig? not really, it performed quite admirably, despite being the heaviest. It was only 1.5mph behind the 250XS in top speed and 3 mph faster than the nearest other 4-stroke competitor! 3 MPH on a 60 mph boat is HUGE. Acceleration was 2nd place to the 250XS as well...
as for the suzuki being an impressive motor, it was LAST in mid range accel (3.3 sec behind the 250xs in 30-50mph) and LAST in top speed... almost 6 mph behind the 250XS and almost 5 mph behind the verado... what's impressive about that?????
You said it all right there. "despite being the heaviest"...... the motor is a PIG. It is NOT what our segment of the market is about. Add that it is the worst on fuel. I know a few guys that bought Verados to replace there old 225 merc 3.0 EFI's on there bass boats, and while they agree on the running quality, they all complain about the fuel consumption, and lackluster performance. Talk about pulling the wool over our eye, 4-strokes are BS and marketing.... and this test proves it.
Although the Suzuki is the lightest 4 stroke, and doesn't need a blower to compete. The 250XS, is in a league of it's own, the others may fight for second place. As is mercs prop technology, there is no denying this.
RT
1BadAction
07-05-2006, 02:36 PM
"motor needs a blower to compete" whatta ricer arguement that is :rolleyes: teh verado spanked tat 4-suckin ass.
awesome. you 2 are my heroes.
I will second that!!!!:) :)
JWTjr.
07-05-2006, 04:46 PM
Markus, they ran whatever they wanted, just like in past tests, as long as it was/is currently available to the general public.
I feel strongly that Suzuki suffered because they only ran/tried their own props, and we couldn't raise the engine any more. Results might have been very different (at least a change in 2nd/3rd place, possibly) if they tried some other wheels.
As for performance, nothing present was going to touch the XS--no way. It clearly outperformed all the others. Very impressive indeed.
JT
jimmyb
07-05-2006, 09:44 PM
the motor is a PIG. It is NOT what our segment of the market is about....
Although the Suzuki is the lightest 4 stroke, and doesn't need a blower to compete....
The 250XS, is in a league of it's own, the others may fight for second place. As is mercs prop technology, there is no denying this.
RT
the "pig" clearly came in 2nd place and has extremely good run quality and a complete motor package (steering, throttle/shifting, and gauges). It wasnt made to compete in the hot boat crowd, it was designed to go on big boats that are running multiple engines... however this test shows that it does compete well in the performance arena despite being a "pig"
the suzuki was the lightest and had the most displacement, but it performed very poorly... perhaps it should get a blower to compete... :p
agreed on the 250XS :) the 300XS will open some more eyes as well...
Like the infomercial says... "e-tec, it's pretty fast." I guess the part that fell on the editing room floor was the rest that said... "just not as fast as the rest, thats why we have to wear pink drawers."
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/makulaf/etec1.jpg
http://media.putfile.com/Evinrude-Promo
jimmyb
07-06-2006, 11:15 AM
. It's too bad BRP didn't show. They told us they would right up until the last minute, too. Just ridiculous.
JT
one could only speculate as to why a manufacturer would pull out at the last minute! ;)
Superbender
07-06-2006, 09:34 PM
Did any one else notice that the merc props were labbed,I would have expected a bigger differance.
jimmyb
07-07-2006, 06:19 AM
Did any one else notice that the merc props were labbed,I would have expected a bigger differance.
3-6 mph isnt a big difference on a low 60's boat????? also, labbing a prop on a slower boat doesnt usually result in huge gains.
Massbasser
07-07-2006, 07:26 AM
I still haven't got mine? But did you swap props like you used to for these tests? I remember the 250OX66 VS 250XB on the Stratos test you swapped props to see how the boats ran with the other guys prop. That would have leveled the playing field a little wouldn't it? :confused:
JWTjr.
07-07-2006, 07:32 AM
"We" (B&WB staff) don't swap props. That is totally and completely up to the engine manufacturers. We (I) make recommendations to them (and they sometimes do or do not take the advice). What they end up with for the test, the actual propeller, is up to them. But they are advised in writing and in a meeting verbally before the test what the rules are--in total.
JT
That would have leveled the playing field a little wouldn't it? :confused:
Taking two of the spark plugs out of the merc for the test would have leveled the playing field a little too. LOL:D :D
Markus
07-07-2006, 01:15 PM
Markus, they ran whatever they wanted, just like in past tests, as long as it was/is currently available to the general public.
I feel strongly that Suzuki suffered because they only ran/tried their own props, and we couldn't raise the engine any more. Results might have been very different (at least a change in 2nd/3rd place, possibly) if they tried some other wheels.
Well, I guess you can't create a test rule against stupidity...
JWTjr.
07-07-2006, 06:21 PM
for the next one...;)
JT
neveredge
07-08-2006, 01:34 PM
John, I'm hearing a rumor that BRP wanted to bring their 225H.O. instead of their 250 to the test but they weren't allowed because Merc cried about it.
Is there any truth to this?
JWTjr.
07-08-2006, 04:42 PM
half truth. They did want to do it. We said no, that it was a 250 test, not a 225 test. Merc wanted to do it as well, a few years ago...we said no to that one too.
JT
neveredge
07-08-2006, 05:03 PM
I thought it might be something like that. Thanks for replying.
Markus
07-09-2006, 02:56 PM
for the next one...;)
JT
How about listing the price of the propeller in the table with the engine price and specifications?
That would make it easier for the reader to see that Manufacturer A used a $1200 high-performance propeller, whereas Manufacturer B used a $400 OEM stainless steel propeller.
Hack02
07-11-2006, 04:37 PM
I was hoping for a performance bassboat comparison with the 250's; maybe something like the 21 ft. Bullet. Good article though. I was surprised at just how well the Verado performed, barring fuel consumption.
How about listing the price of the propeller in the table with the engine price and specifications?
That would make it easier for the reader to see that Manufacturer A used a $1200 high-performance propeller, whereas Manufacturer B used a $400 OEM stainless steel propeller.
Markus, did you read above where it is up to the manufacturer as to what prop they run? it is not a prop comparison it is a motor comparison. We all know props can make a difference, but don't you think the manufacturers know that too when they choose what prop to use? They (the manufacture) picked the prop they thought would work best in on their motor this motor test, the results are the results are the results.
fish
jphii
07-11-2006, 06:12 PM
So that means we don't need to know what props were used?
JWTjr.
07-11-2006, 08:42 PM
I was in a bit of a rush to get the story out, and I did want to mention the price of the Merc props--and also while I was at it, mention that as always, the others could have tried those props if they wanted to, and could have also brought "worked" props (as longs as the prop shops who worked them were still in business, and the modifications could be "duplicated" (as close as is possible, anyway) by anyone in the boating public who wanted to pay the price. In my haste to get the story to my editor, I forgot that. I'm sure the lab worked props made a bit of a difference in the outcome, but as someone said earlier, on a 60 mph boat that difference is probably slight.
The reason we didn't use bassboats is stated in the story. We wanted to test the Suzuki and they don't make a 20" shaft engine, so we had to resort to boats with 25" transoms. We are again looking at "fast" bassboats (relative term) to test the 300s on--stay tuned.
JT
Massbasser
07-12-2006, 11:42 AM
Yamaha doesn't make a 20" shaft either, do they?
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/products/subcatspecs/1/specs.aspx
We are again looking at "fast" bassboats (relative term) to test the 300s on--stay tuned.
I wish you'd include the 300 Suzi in that test too, but again the shaftage would be the issue.
1BadAction
07-12-2006, 12:07 PM
man these merc haters have more excuses than whores have crabs. "bb bbuuu buuut the yamaha is more reliable and better cause its japanese!1!!!1" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
So that means we don't need to know what props were used?
No Joe, I am not saying that, just trying to keep the focus on the test, not the excuses. It would be one thing if each was given a prop to run by B&W, but since the manufacturers themselves chose what prop they ran, they have to live with the bed they made. Just my opinion,
fish
Trikki1010
07-12-2006, 07:48 PM
Yamaha doesn't make a 20" shaft either, do they?
V-Max by Yamahaha (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/products/subcatspecs/7/specs.aspx)
So much for no 20" mids
BTW - Most of the 4 strokes are not made for us little guys:rolleyes:
Lockjaw
07-12-2006, 09:53 PM
I like it you guys decided to let the engine manufacturers use any prop currently available. It would be interesting to see the difference between a lab finished prop and a regular one.
The 250XS was a standout performer. I have heard a 250 verado, on a nice bassboat, its a good engine. It sure has a different sound to it.
I am looking forward to the 300 shootout.
Oh and can I plug for an article about the difference between a 150 and 175 on a moderate bass hull, say like the Blazer 190 Pro-V you just tested. I think it would be interesting to see what the real on the water differences are.
150aintenuff
07-13-2006, 12:31 AM
good articles when youcan find one... there is becomming more and more advertising .. which is sad... Yes i understand that advertising pays the bills but when 37 pages are adds in a 64 page magazine.... it never used to be that way... JWTJr was there any management changes or what is going on.. i recently renewed because of the great tech and shoot outs but even the bigger shootouts are getting harder to find... not dissin the mag...or Johns work , just a bit disapointed in the articles Vs advertising in the last issue...
JWTjr.
07-13-2006, 06:02 AM
Interesting idea on 150 vs. 175 on same hull...I'm sure we can do that, I will propose it to my editor...
Management changes...yes of course. Poole Publications was purchased a couple years ago by Ehlert Publications, so it is "big(ger) business" now...much more emphasis on the bottom line than ever before...even shootouts are tough to pull off due to cost (and of course potential revenue loss when the "losers" get mad). We do what we can but it always gets tougher. I'l do it as long as I can.
JT
stokernick
07-13-2006, 07:21 AM
JWTjr,we trust your judgement and honesty.Thank you!
Massbasser
07-13-2006, 08:53 AM
V-Max by Yamahaha (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/products/subcatspecs/7/specs.aspx)
So much for no 20" mids
BTW - Most of the 4 strokes are not made for us little guys:rolleyes:
I know they offer 20" in the Vmax, I was refering to the 4 Stroke they chose to test. I was kind of curious why Yamaha didn't bring a HPDI instead or in addition to the F250.
beer30
07-13-2006, 09:05 AM
To be honest, your the reason I subscribe to B & WE!!!!!;) You know what the avg. boater wants to see, also how hard it is to scrap up the money to do the changes.:cool: Chuck.
blkmtrfan
07-13-2006, 09:21 AM
To be honest, your the reason I subscribe to B & WE!!!!!;)
John, I feel the same as Chuck,
Scott
Massbasser
07-13-2006, 09:23 AM
I know they offer 20" in the Vmax, I was refering to the 4 Stroke they chose to test. I was kind of curious why Yamaha didn't bring a HPDI instead or in addition to the F250.
I guess because they don't offer a 25" HPDI 250 anymore. :rolleyes:
Lockjaw
07-13-2006, 09:10 PM
John, I feel the same as Chuck,
Scott
So do I.
And thanks for proposing my idea. There have been a couple tests where there was a 150 on the hull, and a 175 was mentioned as raising speed, so it would be interesting to see the differences.
Especially the gas mileage versus the speed gains, or where the real benefit is. Like holshot, acceleration, what?
I also think it would be interesting to let Hydrotec mod a Yammer 150 and a 175 and see what the gains are too. Or how much more they could get just running 87 octane versus 93. Stuff like that.
JWTjr.
07-13-2006, 10:43 PM
Thanks for the kind words. Writing objective stuff, real world and honest, not simply regurgitated ad hype, is very difficult today. As I said, I'll keep doing it as long as I can. But it is getting tougher by the year. Quite simply, many/most publications simply won't entertain publishing a story if it's controversial. Thankfully, Ehlert/B&WB still will.
Great suggestions, too. Read next month's Seat Time; I discuss the slow death of outboard mods stories (as "clean" engines proliferate). I am always in need of good story suggestions!
Thanks again...
JT
150aintenuff
07-14-2006, 01:19 AM
Interesting idea on 150 vs. 175 on same hull...I'm sure we can do that, I will propose it to my editor...
Management changes...yes of course. Poole Publications was purchased a couple years ago by Ehlert Publications, so it is "big(ger) business" now...much more emphasis on the bottom line than ever before...even shootouts are tough to pull off due to cost (and of course potential revenue loss when the "losers" get mad). We do what we can but it always gets tougher. I'l do it as long as I can.
JT
I knew there had to be something.... even my wife (who doesnt even read them) noticed a definate reoccuring theme especially with the cover... she cant see any difference in the covers.. they are all basically the same... also sad... hopefully things improve or it will be a long 5 years.... then no more sadly for me...
150aintenuff
07-14-2006, 01:25 AM
idea.... as costs rise and new engines get heavier, and more costly, what does the horizon look like as far as entry boaters to the sport of fishing or performance boating... are they going to older used packages or are they just goin deeper in debt to buy new.... maby a cost comparison and how long it actually takes to justify that new DFI or 4 stroke power plant or that new hull vs a few years old.. what about doing a shoot out pitting used good dhape packages versus new ... say a 2002 modle year boat /motor package with 250 versus a brand new one.. and see wich one over a 10 year period (calculated and figured on paper would actually be more economical to own
David
07-14-2006, 07:54 PM
I wonder how many non fishing guys subscribe to B&W? I haven't had a line in the water in 20 years.
Keep it up John.
neveredge
07-14-2006, 08:56 PM
Just my $.02, I would like to see more in depth coverage of each boat tested.
What I mean is take boat X and test it with a bunch of different props and a bunch of different setbacks and use hydrolic verses static plates to show the differences. Maybe put trim tabs on and/or foils. Test it with and without the trolling motor mounted. Maybe even put diferent HP motors on it to see what happens. I think that was already mentioned but you get the idea.
I know this can be hard when you are time pressed to finish a test but it would be real interesting and it would also be very usable iformation for the guys looking to buy. And I for one would love reading articles like that.
Oh yeah, test something with a Wayne Taylor motor on it! Preferably a white motor.
And how about a test of an E-Tec with a Merc Sporty 1.62.1 on it. I'm sure BRP wouldn't like that but I think the Rude needs a good case. If you can't beat em, join em.
Lockjaw
07-17-2006, 09:41 PM
Well surely someone out their ain't scared of trying to mod an Opti.
I wonder what would happen if you did a couple of mods to an opti, like raised compression, port, reeds, etc.
It is sad but true, its going to be tough to modify the newer engines, but then I wonder, when my buddy's BassCat Cougar runs well into the high 70's with 225 opti, with a worked prop, what more do you need? It gets good mileage, rides great, and fishes like a dream?
Only thing, a cheaper price.
Stinky
07-18-2006, 06:32 AM
Well surely someone out their ain't scared of trying to mod an Opti.
I wonder what would happen if you did a couple of mods to an opti, like raised compression, port, reeds, etc.
It is sad but true, its going to be tough to modify the newer engines, but then I wonder, when my buddy's BassCat Cougar runs well into the high 70's with 225 opti, with a worked prop, what more do you need? It gets good mileage, rides great, and fishes like a dream?
Only thing, a cheaper price.
Its called a 300XS.:rolleyes:
.
jimmyb
07-18-2006, 06:36 AM
mods to an opti, like raised compression, port, reeds, etc.
it will go BOOM if you dont calibrate it properly
there aint no jets to change in the carbs or rapair ecu's for optis
1BadAction
07-18-2006, 09:37 AM
And how about a test of an E-Tec with a Merc Sporty 1.62.1 on it. I'm sure BRP wouldn't like that but I think the Rude needs a good case. If you can't beat em, join em.
while your at it, put a merc powerhead and mid on there and you'll be all set http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif
150aintenuff
07-22-2006, 09:45 AM
computers.. just takes time to open them up and it is easy from there... compression, ect .. always good but i would imagine there is always more whien it comes to fuel and computer curves that can be found because mother merc cant really wring them out due to having to place some warrantee on them.. even the "racing" motors ar built to live to an extent...
Stinky
07-22-2006, 12:33 PM
computers.. just takes time to open them up and it is easy from there... compression, ect .. always good but i would imagine there is always more whien it comes to fuel and computer curves that can be found because mother merc cant really wring them out due to having to place some warrantee on them.. even the "racing" motors ar built to live to an extent...
Ummm.................... never mind. ;)
neveredge
07-22-2006, 08:25 PM
while your at it, put a merc powerhead and mid on there and you'll be all set http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif
Because I want to go faster, not slower.
Scream And Fly
07-22-2006, 10:18 PM
The cure for wanting to go fast:
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4948/optimax300xsspectre3wz3.jpg
neveredge
07-23-2006, 05:33 AM
I got wood :D
You always got wood.
I wonder how many non fishing guys subscribe to B&W? I haven't had a line in the water in 20 years.
Keep it up John.
I used to fish, but now only drop a line once or twice a year from my dock. My true fishing days probably ended in 1982 when I went into the Air Force. That makes it 24 years for me.
I only subscribe to B&WB mag for the engine tests. In fact, I dont even read the depth sounder/fish finder articles. I just flip right past those.
What would this sport be like without Greg and Helmut and JWTjr testing outboards and mods for us????
Superbender
07-23-2006, 07:41 PM
Thats just the way my boat runs,Great shot.
Markus
07-23-2006, 11:37 PM
Thanks for the kind words. Writing objective stuff, real world and honest, not simply regurgitated ad hype, is very difficult today. As I said, I'll keep doing it as long as I can. But it is getting tougher by the year. Quite simply, many/most publications simply won't entertain publishing a story if it's controversial. Thankfully, Ehlert/B&WB still will.
My impression is that it got worse for a year or so after Bruce Smith left as editor with fewer shoot-outs and more so-called buyer's guides regurgitating ad-type. Then it got better again, and the most important thing that made it better was more articles by JWTjr.
Great suggestions, too. Read next month's Seat Time; I discuss the slow death of outboard mods stories (as "clean" engines proliferate).
I am always in need of good story suggestions!
John, send me an email, and I will give you a great suggestion. I promise. It won't require any testing, just an hour or so reading up. It will be a new insight to the vast majority of B&WB readers, and might have some impact on your engine shoot-outs.
ghind
08-01-2006, 09:39 AM
In these kinds of tests, fuel consumption at various RPM points are covered.
What I would like to see is a fuel consumption comparison at the slowest motors fastest speed for all motors.
Lets say that the motors top out at 56, 58, 61 and 62mph. You would expect the 62 mph motor to be using more fuel at that speed than the others at their slower top speeds.
But how much fuel are the faster motors using at 56mph.
Often, I suspect, it takes a lot more fuel to get that last mph or two. This idea might help level the playing fields.
Also, how can I subscribe to this magazine from Australia?
Lars T
08-01-2006, 02:48 PM
Any test of the 2.5 VS the fishin mota 250XS??
Markus
08-08-2006, 10:14 AM
In these kinds of tests, fuel consumption at various RPM points are covered.
What I would like to see is a fuel consumption comparison at the slowest motors fastest speed for all motors.
Lets say that the motors top out at 56, 58, 61 and 62mph. You would expect the 62 mph motor to be using more fuel at that speed than the others at their slower top speeds.
But how much fuel are the faster motors using at 56mph.
Often, I suspect, it takes a lot more fuel to get that last mph or two. This idea might help level the playing fields.
The tests show this.
Also, how can I subscribe to this magazine from Australia?
Just order a subscription. There is a higher price for international subscribers.
lugger
10-02-2006, 05:29 PM
what are the numbers at 4000 rpm ??
stan merck
11-03-2006, 12:23 PM
I like reading the tests John does and it is the only reason I read B&W. What I would like to see is a dyno curve for each eng in these shootouts. I know dream on... Anyway, while B&W allows manufacturers to swap props, at this test Yamaha wanted to run the lab prop but Merc said, NO WAY!!! Lab props also can add alot to acceleration not just top speed. I guess Yamaha could of showed up with a special worked prop but they look at it as a typical customer of that boat would, so a stock Yamaha prop was used. Although the Verado sucks fuel it is a nice running eng. I have got to run a 250 and a 225. The 225 is weak to me for a supercharged eng. The 250 is alot stronger. I have never gotten to run a 275. I would like to see it compared to a VZ 300 in any upcoming 300 shootouts since the Yamaha is only about 275 hp anyway.
1BadAction
11-03-2006, 12:52 PM
at this test Yamaha wanted to run the lab prop but Merc said, NO WAY!!! Lab props also can add alot to acceleration not just top speed.
thats BS, where did you hear that? the internet rumor mill must be working its magic again :rolleyes:
and Lab finishing might improve 90+ mph props on light go fast boats, but the benefits in regular applications arent as noticable.
JWTjr.
11-03-2006, 12:59 PM
There is no truth to that statement.
One of the hard-and-fast rules of any B&WB engine shootout is that all props from all manufacturers must be available to run (even for the test results) for anyone who participates. That is clearly stated, in writing, and supplied to the participants before each test. Mercury never said "no way" to any prop swapping, and if they did, they would have to allow us to re-test with a propeller they would allow to swap.
JT
stan merck
11-03-2006, 01:43 PM
I was told by a person who was at the test. He asked to run it after the test was officially over for his own experience. I should have mentioned it was after the test, not during. Yamaha officially didnt care to run it on their eng. I wished he would of asked during the test but that wasnt his decision.
Stinky
11-03-2006, 02:50 PM
There is no truth to that statement.
JT
:rolleyes: ;) :D
Hey JT. You planing on re-running the 250 shootout now that the 250 ProXS is out.
That would remove the waa! waa! waa! it's a race motor argument.:D And maybe we would do even better now that its 3 star.:rolleyes:
6Killer
11-03-2006, 03:00 PM
For catching flying fish.
1BadAction
11-03-2006, 03:02 PM
looks like a good manatee rig to me :D 4 labbed 24 cleavers and it'll be just like a ginsu infomercial :eek:
JWTjr.
11-03-2006, 03:36 PM
Stinky, not sure if/when we will. These engine shootouts are great fun and very informative for the readers, but the manufacturers make it a real pain in the a$$. Too much whining (from ALL camps, not just one or two) when something doesn't go someone's way. Kind of like boat racing!
Believe me, I will continue to push the editors for every engine comparison we can. However, its ultimately not up to me.
JT
stan merck
11-03-2006, 05:15 PM
John I am in no way complaining about how B&W handles these tests. I think yall do an outstanding job given all the variables envolved in trying to keep these things fair. I was just showin there's always something goin on behind the scenes, out of B&W's control. And I guess I was stirin up the pot but thats what makes all this stuff fun.
150aintenuff
11-03-2006, 10:57 PM
test idea....
compair the various PROXS vs the XS and Verado
225PROXS VS 225 verado
250 pro vs 250 XS vs 250 VERADO
275 VERADO vs 250 ProXS and XS 250
300XS vs 275 Verado
on say a bullet, or Triton, or heck make it a walleye boat or bay boat like a skeeter or ranger or champion so that way us readers can make a real world comparison of all the upper performance motors merc has to offer in terms of fuel mielege GPH, top speed, best acceleration, ect.. that way we know which green merc is actually the baddest one of the breed....
Carlson150XS
11-04-2006, 01:22 AM
John-
Because of your tests I have subscribed to BWB. I also bought two friends a subscription as a present. We need more tests that give us the product knowledge to make good buying decisions.
Thanks again!
jim
How about a test of the little guys? 15 Honda versus 15 Merc versus 15 Johnson etc. all on 14' aluminum boats :D
150aintenuff
11-06-2006, 01:07 AM
How about a test of the little guys? 15 Honda versus 15 Merc versus 15 Johnson etc. all on 14' aluminum boats :D
that would be cool as well.... but dont forget yamaha 8 and 15 in that test..
The Big Al
11-06-2006, 01:29 AM
that would be cool as well.... but dont forget yamaha 8 and 15 in that test..
That would be Great!
stan merck
11-09-2006, 04:52 PM
Compare the new engs to an old 9.8 merc too. See if any of the new stuff is really any better than the old.
sho305
11-13-2006, 09:14 PM
The Opti really puts the hurt on the 4 strokes there, I wonder what the 'green' organizations think about those mpg numbers. Using less fuel is 'green' right?;) Really too bad the OMC was not in there.
stan merck
11-16-2006, 09:00 AM
What gets me is all the laws have done is make the engs get heavier so the boats get bigger and heavier to support the engs. Everyone use to have smaller boats with smaller engs that basically use the same amount of fuel as the newer big stuff. Outboards hardly pollute at all when you look at the whole picture. A cow fart does more damage they say so why dont they hang catalytic converters off their rears and leave the ole 2 strokes alone.
What gets me is all the laws have done is make the engs get heavier so the boats get bigger and heavier to support the engs. Everyone use to have smaller boats with smaller engs that basically use the same amount of fuel as the newer big stuff. Outboards hardly pollute at all when you look at the whole picture. A cow fart does more damage they say so why dont they hang catalytic converters off their rears and leave the ole 2 strokes alone.
Because everyone in congress eats steak, but very few (i would bet) drive outboard boats, especially high performance. What do they care, it does not effect them (like cows do)and only really effects a small percentage of the country. They then can run in the next election on an enviormentally friendly platform because they voted to clean up OB's making the enviormentalists happy, and only pissing off the HIPO community. They all suck.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.