Old Wing Photos

[Powercat]

http://www.retroboats.net/

I thought I had seen most of the photos that had been around
of the Switzer wings from the old days.. Then Rick Connolly decided
to open up a new forum for "Retroboats" and he started posting a
bunch of stuff I had not seen before.. Some really good photos
you should take the time to check out at the link above...
Danny Leger

[Old fiberglass]

Thanks for the plug Danny.

I have spent a lot of time researching old wings and talking to old wing racers of days past. It's interesting to learn how some of the boats and racers interconnected. Have more pictures than what is posted and will keep slowly adding them - http://www.retroboats.net/gallery/main.php/v/Switzer+Wing/

Just started the site. I would like to get more info and pictures of boat restorations. So, don't be bashful if you have info or pictures you want to contribute to the site. If anyone has constructive ideas or input please let me know. Thanks Rick Connolly

[Old fiberglass]

A littile on the Canadian urban legend - http://www.retroboats.net/gallery/main.php/v/Switzer+Wing/Eddie+16/?g2_fromNavId=xf7ac18ab

18 and 20 foot wing aileron differences and molds - http://www.retroboats.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=4

[Mark75H]

Looks a little like the one Dick Davis was going to restore, but comparing the recent images, I see it is not the same boat.

[brichter]

......does anyone know where I can find a wing, perhaps a wreck, that is "available"?????

[T2x]

......does anyone know where I can find a wing, perhaps a wreck, that is "available"?????

Good luck.......... if you find an 18 footer...I'll buy it sight unseen.

T2x

[Raceman]

......does anyone know where I can find a wing, perhaps a wreck, that is "available"?????

Go to the end of the rainbow, find the pot of gold and turn right 10 paces.:D

[Old fiberglass]

Stranger things have happened. What are the odds of owning both wings in the picture below, because I do.

A little more picture info on the T-199 wing - http://www.retroboats.net/gallery/main.php/v/Switzer+Wing/Don+Edmonson/?g2_fromNavId=xf22af2b5 There are two pages to the photo album.

[Stretch]

Nice site, I could give you some more G-3 shots, but it looks like you got that covered.

[T2x]

Go to the end of the rainbow, find the pot of gold and turn right 10 paces.:D

You know, I went there and did that...and wound up in Boynton Beach.;)

T2x

[T2x]

Stranger things have happened. What are the odds of owning both wings in the picture below, because I do.

A little more picture info on the T-199 wing - http://www.retroboats.net/gallery/main.php/v/Switzer+Wing/Don+Edmonson/?g2_fromNavId=xf22af2b5 There are two pages to the photo album.

Great stuff, and congratulations....We need to update the registry.

Call me when you want to sell the 18.....:D

T2x

[T2x]

One more time......

In the 1966 OPC racing season, starting at the Orange Bowl Regatta in January, I saw , at a few events, a red, wooden, switzer wing (or close replica) with golden/amber tinted canopies out of Chicago. The boat had the Name "Miss Subway" painted on it and was not very competitive..... Owner seemed to constantly crack jokes and seemed to have an issue with the Switzers.

Does this ring a bell with anybody?

T2x

[largecar91]

Damn Rick, you let the cat out of the bag!!

[MagicFloat]

T2x,is it time to revise your list of existing wings? Is there a change or 2?

[Old fiberglass]

I figured it was going to leak out sooner or later. It took five months and a lot of work to find it. Working on a few other things ;)

[largecar91]

That's Ok. We Still Know There Are Quite A Few Secrets Still Out There!!

[Old fiberglass]

Don't know what your talking about - :rolleyes:

[Old fiberglass]

Updated Bob Massey's photo album. Kind of interesting he owned four wings. There are three pages to the album - http://www.retroboats.net/gallery/main.php/v/Switzer+Wing/Bob+Massey/

[Old fiberglass]

A small picture history and info/story about the Switzer V nose wing. Some of the pictures folks have seen before mixed in with some new ones - http://www.retroboats.net/gallery/main.php/v/V+Wing+History/

[Old fiberglass]

Some pics of a fiberglass Molinari rebuild - http://retroboats.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=217#217

Also, got a question about this 18' wings history. Got some history and pictures coming of it next week. Thought other folks in the Seattle area might be able to add some info - http://retroboats.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=59

[MagicFloat]

:eek:

[MagicFloat]

That's good news.I was sure someone would jump at the chance to finish a piece of history. When the time is right,please let the interested members here know whatever details you might care to share about this historic wing.

[Dave S]

Ya gone and go buying the other motors:rolleyes: and then ya sell the wing? next thing ya be driving a import with a BIG MUFFLER.:eek: :p :p :p

[T2x]

The Wing was traced back to one Ted May drove #80 with OMC Power. The Wing then became #40, Bobby Massey.

http://www.********************/forums/showthread.php?t=3&highlight=massy


Good luck with it John..... If you get a chance please call me.

T2x

[Old fiberglass]

Glad to hear it found a good home. Had a few thoughts/comments on it if it's Bob Massey's white one ...scroll down to the bottom- http://www.retroboats.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=73

[Old fiberglass]

It took me about 5 months to locate Bob's wife Joanne Massey. She allowed me to make copies of her photo albums of Bob's boats. The same white wing shows up in them.... no others. From talking to folks that helped Bob and raced with him I believe there was only one white wing. He owned four wings that I know of.

Don't know anything about the gold shield. You also mentioned yours had something "Works" written on the front wing area. Do you know who bought the wing when Bob sold it in 1968 ~1969 time frame ?? Might help answer some questions to pin down if that was was indeed his wing. If who ever bought your boat would like to contact me in private I would like to talk to them.

Kenny ran a white one.........that hasn't been accounted for..... food for thought. Think that was before Mercury bought the rights to them. In talking to Kenny he was pretty sure the aileron was fixed. Little known fact Kenny has a almost photographic memory for phone numbers. He could remember the phone number on the side of the wing before seeing the picture.

Researching this stuff can lead to a lot of twists and turns. I thought the red 18' I have was originally ran by Kenny Kitson. This turned out not to be the case. It was first loaned to Jan Schoonover in 1967 from Mercury. He ran it in the Saltan Sea and Lake Havasu. It was a good light running boat. Soon afterwards Bob Massey bought the wing and was successful with it.

The yellow 20' was originally run once by the Switzers at Parker or Havasu. Dave sunk it front of the judges stand... another story. Bob Massey bought it that day quickly selling it to Ed Steward & Don Edmonson. They came in third overall and second outboard behind the Mertens Wet & Wild at Parker in 1969. Later it became one of two 20's to be rigged for triples.

[Mark75H]

Didn't Mercury own the rights to all the original 18 ft fiberglass Wings because they financed the construction of the 18 ft Wing mold? So, an early Wing not under Mercury control would have to have been one of the original wooden Wings, right?

[Old fiberglass]

Nope, very early fiberglass 18's weren't. Several of the wood wings were owned by Mercury as well at some point in time.

[2us70]

The only non Mercury powered Wings I ever saw back in the day were all glass. The only one I ever saw run with Chryslers was originally Jock Horner's Merc boat.

[Old fiberglass]

Old Fiberglass: "If who ever bought your boat would like to contact me in private I would like to talk to them."
---------------------------------
I am confused about this statement. - Sherlock

John, I thought you said you sold your wing to a private party. I have been trying to stay in touch with folks who have wings. There are so few of owners out there. Some don't want to be public about them, which I understand and have respected. So, just wanted to be in touch with the new owners of ours if possible to compare notes and learn from each other. Make sense ??


Didn't Mercury own the rights to all the original 18 ft fiberglass Wings because they financed the construction of the 18 ft Wing mold? So, an early Wing not under Mercury control would have to have been one of the original wooden Wings, right? Mark75H -

Another data point for you. Just got off the phone with Erinie Threkeld. He bought his fiberglass 18' "Black Coffin # 69" wing directly from Switzer for $3,000.

[Mark75H]

So Switzer is wrong when he said Merc paid for construction of the 18 ft molds and controlled who got them or were there 18 ft fiberglass Wings not made from the Merc owned molds? Or ... was Switzer in violation of their agreement with Kiekhaefer and supplied Wings to other than Kiekhaefer approved racers?

As I see it, only one of these things can be correct.

[Old fiberglass]

This Wing was for sale but a deal was made between two parties that wish to remain anonymous. The Wing will in time be restored and be run at Vintage Events. John

I guess I'm dumber than a bag of rocks. The above staement is what has/had me confused. The statement makes it sound like you sold it to a private party. I'm not the only one who thought this from that statement. At any rate I'm glad to hear your keeping it. If I can ever be of any help please let me know.


So Switzer is wrong when he said Merc paid for construction of the 18 ft molds and controlled who got them or were there 18 ft fiberglass Wings not made from the Merc owned molds? Or ... was Switzer in violation of their agreement with Kiekhaefer and supplied Wings to other than Kiekhaefer approved racers?

As I see it, only one of these things can be correct.

Don't know what to tell you other than I spent a lot of time researching wings and the early fiberglass ones were sold to the public. The story goes Mr. K saw some of the early fiberglass wings get into public hands. He was worrried that the competion like OMC would get them. So, he cut a deal to to buy the mold(s) and all the wings out of them from that point in time on. Could be that Mr. K buying the molds helped Switzer offset cost of the setup and R&D costs.

Then the Switzers realized they weren't making as much as they could selling the wings only to Mercury. So........enter the Switzer 20 footer. Ironically there were two different splashes taken off of the 18' wing back in the day. Both parties who will remain nameless claimed they never actually made any.

Jan Schoonover was an independent and bought his black wing directly from Switzers as well. Do you think for a minute if Ernie Threkeld's black wing was owned by Mercury he would be running it setting records with Johnson GT-115's ?? Do the math it doesn't add up.

[Mark75H]

It would make sense if Kiekhaefer retroactively paid for molds already built, rather than financing molds yet to be constructed ... and put in the order for the next 30 boats from them. It's just that previous text at least implied - that the cash came before the mold construction ... maybe there was a miscommunication in that interview.

As far as Threlkeld getting an 18 to run Johnsons on, I just assumed he acquired one that had been passed around a few times and Kiekhaefer lost track of it. I never heard that he got it directly from Switzer before your latest corrected information.

I'm still confused by this:
Then the Switzers realized they weren't making as much as they could selling the wings only to Mercury. So........enter the Switzer 20 footer. ... unless maybe you know more about the dates than you have told us so far and know for certain that Schoonover's and Threlkeld's boats both came out of Switzer before the Kiekhaefer deal (GT-115's didn't come out until 1967).

I'm just trying to figure out the whole scheme of things, I think we are getting close to getting all the details and getting them right :)

[MN4V]

Wow, $3,000 for a Switzer Wing sounds pretty high for in the 1960s.
Maybe because they are such huge boats.
Mark N

[Mark75H]

$3000 was less than the motors would have cost ... I think they were $1800 to $2200 each .... $7500 rigged? What did a Stingray cost new in 1968?

[MN4V]

My brother bought a new 1977 Corvette for $10,000.

I found this from the Ventura thread - A 1976 Race Ventura 2 For $1,350.00



#62 10-10-2006, 12:07 PM
99fxst99
Member Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: virginia
Posts: 63

Fred, this sure brings back memories. I had a 76 Ventura II, JP version (500lb) that I originally set up for ski racing. 2 seats, 18gal fuel, 1974 150E Merc 15" with the small racing trim rams, dual steering. The transom height was 23" which was way too high for a 15" motor as we had to pull a skier. I cut the transom as low as the well would allow to about 20 1/2" I think. Too high for legal FS racing but worked for ski racing. Fastest prop ever on the boat was a borrowed 27" 3blade DAH cleaver (OMC part) hubbed for a Merc. Ran 82 @ 6400 on a Keller. Blew it over the first time I ran it, never been so damn fast! Best ski racing prop was a 25" 3blade DAH cleaver, had lots of rake for lift. Driver, observer, fuel, skier, 67mph. River prop was a 24" 3blade offshore that CP1 mentioned. Looking at your picture, I would guess that you have the motor too high trying to compensate for a weak powerhead. My motor (allowing for the 5" difference in shafts) would have still been several inches lower, I think. I ran no setback. BTW, the next year I went to a 175 V6, 86mph 1 person w/27 Merc cleaver, 77mph ski race setup w/the 24 offshore (yeah, we spun her well above 7000 at times).
Those were the days, ski race one weekend, OPC the next, and ride the river on the others..all with the same boat!!! BTW, bought the boat new from Ron Baker at the factory. $1350 for the boat and 1 seat, $40 for the other seat, and $100 for dual Ride Guide including the Quicksilver woodgrain wheel. Mine was the first one done in "Mercury blue" as opposed to the dark blue they had been using. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I did mine!!!
Smokey


Mark N

[Mark75H]

Yeah, I remember what one cost 9 years later in 1977, 'cause I made $10k that year and it stood out to me that if I saved every penny for 18 months I could have bought a 'Vette.

I wanted to compare directly to 1968

[T2x]

Yeah, I remember what one cost 9 years later in 1977, 'cause I made $10k that year and it stood out to me that if I saved every penny for 18 months I could have bought a 'Vette.

I wanted to compare directly to 1968

For reference........

I bought a 1966 SS396 Chevelle for $3200..... a Vette was about 5 grand at that time. My 1973 454 Vette convertable was about $8,000 new.

T2x

[T2x]

I guess I'm dumber than a bag of rocks. The above staement is what has/had me confused. The statement makes it sound like you sold it to a private party. I'm not the only one who thought this from that statement. At any rate I'm glad to hear your keeping it. If I can ever be of any help please let me know.

I've known John for over 40 years and neither of us has figured out the other yet.....:p

Whatever he does...I know it is ethical, neat, fast..and, eventually, interesting as hell. So even when I have no idea what he's talking about...I support him 100%.

T2x

[Old fiberglass]

I'm still confused by this:

Then the Switzers realized they weren't making as much as they could selling the wings only to Mercury. So........enter the Switzer 20 footer.

... unless maybe you know more about the dates than you have told us so far and know for certain that Schoonover's and Threlkeld's boats both came out of Switzer before the Kiekhaefer deal (GT-115's didn't come out until 1967).

Not sure what the question is. Your starting to grind me a little here on this topic. Writing a book ??

Jan and Ernie bought their wings out right, so I would have been before the deal with Mr. K was cut. The red wing that was Kenny Kitson's originally was loaned to Ernie after he wrecked the black one. When he was done with it the wing was returned to Mercury never to be seen again. Obviously Mercury owned the rights to the 18' wings at this time.

Don't know what the GT-115's coming out in 1967 has to do with anything we are discussing. Other than the point being if Mercury owned the wing they would have never been mounted on his boat. Ernie started with Merc 100's then at some point in time must have been late 1966 or 1967 switched to the GT-115's. Motors bolt and unbolt from boats pretty easily. Story goes Mr. K was pissed at him for switching to OMC's and held back pictures of him flying his wing for years until he moved back to the Mercury camp.

Switzer wasn't able to sell the 18's on the open market. Plus more than likely they were locked in on a set price, so they were losing customers and $$$. So, what's s logical solution ??? Make another wing and sell it on the open market without Mercury's control. Hence, one of the reasons the 20 was built. Although it appears like the early 20's were tightly controlled with Mecury input.


The truth is-------one other party and myself made a deal. - John
Still confused, but that is ok.

Bought a clapped out 1968 Vette in 1991 for 3K and dumped another 25K into it. Everything seems to cost one way or another.

[willabee]

It may have been 1967, but I really think that early 1968 was the time that Mr.Kiekhaefer decided to control the ownership of the 18' wings. The prestigious races to win were marathons like Salton Sea, Havasu, Parker and Elsinore and the outboard speed record that the companys really wanted was the over 100 mph twin engine. At that time it looked like the boat capable of doing it all was the Wing. I believe the way the speed record went down was Schoonover set it with stacked 1100's in 1967 at 109 and Threlkeld broke it with the 115's at about 113.....that was the deciding moment.

In 1968 Gary Garbrecht was promoted to Manager of Outboard Racing and attended the strategy meetings in Fond du Lac. Although Gary rarely mentioned what was discussed in those meetings (if it was to be kept secret), I do recall him cancelling out of something we were going to do one weekend because he was told to go to Illinois(?) and try to buy a Wing from a woman who had just lost her husband! He said then that E.C. wanted to control all of the Wings.....I don't know why, but I want to say that that Wing had Chryslers on it. I also remember that Jim Merten bought his Wing in 1968 and it was he and Gary that went out looking at them. I can think of at least eight 18' Wings that were racing before Merc decided to try to control them. I don't know a thing about Merc buying the molds, but if they did, it was well after production had begun.

I think the 20' Wing made it's first appearance at Havasu in 1968, but it was damaged on the start and wasn't able to make any kind of a showing. There was some early talk about controlling them, but that ended soon after it started because the tunnels had impressed everyone so much that a new direction was about to be taken. I think that there were more OMC powered 20'ers than there were Merc's.

Just a thought about that Wing speed record.....Jan blew over trying to get it back and I think Kitson then set it at 118.....Ernie then blew over trying to get it back.............T2x, if all of this is correct, looks like 120 is what you need to have the "Fastest Wing On The Planet" :)

[T2x]

B]T2x,[/B] if all of this is correct, looks like 120 is what you need to have the "Fastest Wing On The Planet" :)

Piece of cake

Now.........

Who wants to drive?

:D

T2x

[willabee]

Piece of cake

Now.........

Who wants to drive?

:D

T2x

As they said in school....."Put me in Coach, I don't smoke" :D

[Mark75H]

Piece of cake

Now.........

Who wants to drive?

:D

T2x

I'll just watch, thanks just the same

[HavasuCarrera]

I have been reading all the posts for a hour!! Ok 2 as I am a slow reader. It would be a honor to drive that boat!! man!! Ok not me but still it would be a honor. I have a old wooden hydro my dad built from Popular Mechanics plans!!! I know its not the same but its priceless to me!! I can only imagine what those are worth to you guys!! I would drive a long ways to see one in person especially on the water. Do ya need a chase boat or pit boy? Congrats guys! Super Cool

[Old fiberglass]

Might need some help late spring or early summer if all goes well. Just around the corner from you if your in Havasu.

[HavasuCarrera]

You can get me at 949-510-1077 and yah I am in either Mission Viejo Ca or Lake Havasu City AZ depending on the week. I take it you plan on running thet beutifull rig around late spring or early Summer? Keep in mind Havasu is super beutifull this time of year and Plenty of room to open her up and no bumps within miles most mornings.

[Old fiberglass]

Thanks for the reply. Mine aren't beautiful yet, but I'm working on it. You might be thinking of Rich's black 20 or Bob's 18, both are sharp looking. I'll give you call this weekend if that is ok.

[Dave S]

Merc s not thinking of their base.

[lilabner]

I got some more pictures of wings that Dave Craig ran from the man himself..I also have newspaper articles and magazine articles..going to try to post as much as I can..

[Old fiberglass]

Got a DVD of the wing actually running.....looks fast. Had a tendency to want to blow over because it was only 16 feet long. Dave called it his short course boat.

How is retirment treating you these days ??

[lilabner]

Retirement is great..That wing was longer than 16 feet..In fact Dave said it didn't have as much lift as the others..I drove it when he first got it, it would only run near 80 with 800 speedmasters...

[Bob V]

I am trying to solve a mental block I have had for too many years. I have asked this question before and I will ask it again. Does anyone remember a wing back in the late 60's or very early 70's that was named Firebird? It was red, black and yellow and ran twin Merc stackers. It was towed by a black Lincoln Continental Mark 3 and I want to say that it was from South Florida, but I could be wrong there also. It was suggested that the name was really Gene's Redbird and perhaps it was, but that was about 40 years ago and I always remember it as Firebird. It ran down here in Clearwater, Florida back in 68 -69 in the Fun n Sun Regatta. It was running together in the race with the gold El Lobo wing, which was powered by Chrysler 135 stackers at the time.

Does this ring a bell with anyone or should I assume that it was Gene's Redbird and that I had the "Birds" confused all these years?

Gene...If you read this, do you remember running against EL Lobo down here back in the very late 60's or perhaps very early 70's? You guys would have run along the causeway in the harbor.

For what it is worth, the Merc powered wing was faster than the Chrysler, but everyone probably already knew that...

The worst thing about this whole dilemma is that I have pictures "somewhere" of this race along with pictures of the two wings sitting on trailers side by side at the boat ramp. They told me that this would happen with age, but I guess I forgot that too.

[lilabner]

I sent Gene an email with your request..

Butch

[Bob V]

Thanks Butch....

I have always remembered the second wing as being Firebird, but as time goes on, I am thinking more and more that it could have been Redbird. Anyway, if it was Gene that ran against EL Lobo, it would solve my mystery.

One thing that I do remember, without a doubt, is how awesome it was when they "flew" those wings down the long front straight away with total daylight under the sponsons and those stacker singing their song. That is something that I will never forget...

[Old fiberglass]

Butch glad to hear retirement is treating you well :D Someday I hope to find out what that is like.....

In the DVD the V nose wing ran more like a cat or tunnel very nose up. There is little over hang past the wing area compaired to the "standard" wings. So, there was less weight/arm moment forward holding the boat down and it was overall shorter. I "think" it had 100's on it in the film. Anyway in the picture it does and you can see the shorter stubby nose a little better.

[T2x]

Butch glad to hear retirement is treating you well :D Someday I hope to find out what that is like.....

In the DVD the V nose wing ran more like a cat or tunnel very nose up. There is little over hang past the wing area compaired to the "standard" wings. So, there was less weight/arm moment forward holding the boat down and it was overall shorter. I "think" it had 100's on it in the film. Anyway in the picture it does and you can see the shorter stubby nose a little better.

Man! That was ugly.........

To the question about Firebird..... add this question I keep asking...

At the 66 Orange Bowl and a few other races , I saw an all red...wood...wing with light amber canopies and Merc 1000's. The boat was from Chicago...and the name was "Miss Subway" the owner (a short midwesterner) had some kind of feud going on with the Switzers and it may not have been made by Switzercraft. It did look very much like the other wood wings but was not competitive. It too was towed by a Lincoln.

Does any one else remember this boat or know any details?

T2x

[mbd29]

Hey Rich: Could that have been Jack Bishop. I remember him telling me that he had a dealership in Chicago and raced OPC back then and, I thought that he said raced a wing. It was so long ago I can't remember.

[T2x]

Hey Rich: Could that have been Jack Bishop. I remember him telling me that he had a dealership in Chicago and raced OPC back then and, I thought that he said raced a wing. It was so long ago I can't remember.

Could be...did he have an argument with the Switzers?

T2x

[lilabner]

This came from Dave's collection..out of Outdoors Magazine Dec 1963..

[lilabner]

Hope they can be read..if not I can email them..

[lilabner]

From Gondolier Magazine Aug 1964..courtesy of Dave Craig

[Old fiberglass]

Crappy picture of the V wing. You can just make out how nose high it's running. I belive it's running into the wind because on the return lap it's not as nose high. At one point it bounces high to the point of getting close to a blow over. It looks very fast on the film.....it's dialed in at this point in it's race career. Jan is driving it.

[T2x]

Crappy picture of the V wing. You can just make out how nose high it's running. I belive it's running into the wind because on the return lap it's not as nose high. At one point it bounces high to the point of getting close to a blow over. It looks very fast on the film.....it's dialed in at this point in it's race career. Jan is driving it.

Where are these pictures coming from....? It looks like Super 8 movie film.

T2x

[Old fiberglass]

Yes, it's 8MM.

[T2x]

Yes, it's 8MM.
What race was it?...and can some of us get a copy? I'd be more than willing to pay for it.

T2x

[Old fiberglass]

I think the 20' Wing made it's first appearance at Havasu in 1968, but it was damaged on the start and wasn't able to make any kind of a showing. [/B]


Here is a real test of your memory Mr Willabee......do you recall the color of the wing ??

3 or so years back I talked to Bob Switzer. They took a brand new yellow 20 foot wing to either Parker or Havasu. The idea was to load it up with fuel so they would not have to make too many pit stops. The wing did not want to fly with all the fuel on board. Anyway a tunnel boat flipped in front of Dave during the race and the lower unit punched a hole in the wing. Dave realized it was going to sink tried to run it up on shore. Unfortunately he did not make it and the wing sank in front of the judges stand with the noses sticking up out of the water. Bob said he wasn't too happy about the whole incident.

The wing sold on the spot to Bob Massey who seemd to have a habit of buying wrecked boats at races. He never raced it and sold it to Ed Steward. Ironically Ed tried to buy the wing from the Switzers at the time of the wreck, but since he wasn't a Mercury dealer they would not sell it to him. So it appears like Mercury did have some control over the 20 footers....at least in the beginning.

I believe this happened in 1968 and the boat was called "Gold Rush" race number was 20 I believe. The Switzers called several of their boats "Gold Rush" not sure why.

[willabee]

Here is a real test of your memory Mr Willabee......do you recall the color of the wing ??

3 or so years back I talked to Bob Switzer. They took a brand new yellow 20 foot wing to either Parker or Havasu. The idea was to load it up with fuel so they would not have to make too many pit stops. The wing did not want to fly with all the fuel on board. Anyway a tunnel boat flipped in front of Dave during the race and the lower unit punched a hole in the wing. Dave realized it was going to sink tried to run it up on shore. Unfortunately he did not make it and the wing sank in front of the judges stand with the noses sticking up out of the water. Bob said he wasn't too happy about the whole incident.

The wing sold on the spot to Bob Massey who seemd to have a habit of buying wrecked boats at races. He never raced it and sold it to Ed Steward. Ironically Ed tried to buy the wing from the Switzers at the time of the wreck, but since he wasn't a Mercury dealer they would not sell it to him. So it appears like Mercury did have some control over the 20 footers....at least in the beginning.

I believe this happened in 1968 and the boat was called "Gold Rush" race number was 20 I believe. The Switzers called several of their boats "Gold Rush" not sure why.

.....what you are describing happened in 1969 at Havasu. The picture below is from 69 and looking at the background over Big Job, you can see four Wings lined up side by side for the start. From the left it looks like a red 18', a blue 20', a red 20' (#96) and then a yellow/gold 20'. I believe that was the Switzer brothers entry in 1969.

I thought the 1968 incident happened right at the start and ended their day. I would have said that boat was yellow. I don't think Merc had any say over the disposition of the 20's. Maybe the Switzers were thinking they could use some good race results to help the sales of their new 20' and figured Bob Massey would do a better job of making that happen.

[Old fiberglass]

.....what you are describing happened in 1969 at Havasu. The picture below is from 69 and looking at the background over Big Job, you can see four Wings lined up side by side for the start. From the left it looks like a red 18', a blue 20', a red 20' (#96) and then a yellow/gold 20'. I believe that was the Switzer brothers entry in 1969.

I thought the 1968 incident happened right at the start and ended their day. I would have said that boat was yellow. I don't think Merc had any say over the disposition of the 20's. Maybe the Switzers were thinking they could use some good race results to help the sales of their new 20' and figured Bob Massey would do a better job of making that happen.

I think the 1969 picture is when Ed Steward ran the boat. It came in second outboard at Parker 1969 behind the Wet & Wild wing. I "believe" the Switzer sinking incident happened in 1968.....I "think" the picture I have when Switzers raced it was dated 1968. Will check when I get home. Obviously this could be two different incidents we are talking about. When I bought it from Don he claimed to have had the boat since 1969.....what were the odds ?? Some of the pictures he gave me are date 1969 as well.

Don was there during the conversation with the Switzers....Ed wanted to buy it real bad.....but it was a no go because he wasn't a Merc dealer. Might be as you point out there were other reasons. Bob never raced it because of the proposing issue which was later resolved.

[Old fiberglass]

No date darn it. Note the name Gold Rush on the side.

[mark benson]

Of the wings lined up there at the 1969 Havasu Outboard World Championships, the yellow-gold one could be # 414 " Jelly Bean" driven by Bob Best from from Seattle, Washington. The red # 98 is Lee Richter - Boots Hansen, (the famous oil rig fire dude!) The blue four digit wing looks like it could be # 1111 John Fox - Robert Allen from Seattle, Washington. # 140 is Bobby Massey From Bellflower, California. # 199 was Ed Stewart - Don Edmondson from California. # 3 was the John Taylor Cleaners wing # 23 was Gene Lanham - Dick Williams. # 108 was William & HL Flagg from Texas. # 119 was Kenny Kitson who won in '68! # 135 was Dave Sparks - Jerry Quinn from Ohio. # 333 was Bob Nordskog (Powerboat Mag. owner) - Carl Asmus from California. # 688 was Alan Stinson - Ernest Threlkeld from Kentucky.So, let's play "Does this Wing Still Exist" I'll get us started by saying # 119 Kenny Kitsons wing still exists. There's one off the list of wings.:cheers:

[Old fiberglass]

My stab at it.

3 John Taylor Cleaners - ?? Heard rumors it could be still around

23 Gene Lanham - Dick Williams - ??

98 Lee Richter - No

108 William & HL Flagg - ???

119 Kenny Kitson - Could have been one of two black wings Kenny had. I believe one got destroyed, (unconfirmed) and the one we all know about is still around.

140 Bobby Massey From Bellflower - Not sure which one ran in that race. Of the three 18's he had two still exsist and one is not accounted for.

199 Ed Stewart - Don Edmondson - Yes

333 Bob Nordskog - ?? Interesting story on that one. Anyway last seen in the late 80's heading down the highway after the previous owner sold it.

414 Jelly Bean - ??

688 Alan Stinson - Ernest Threlkeld - No

1111 John Fox - Robert Allen - ?? Don't know anything about this one.


Survival rate for the wings in that race might actually be pretty high. I think a couple of the unknowns will pop up in the next year or so....:cool:

[Mike Bruton]

.....what you are describing happened in 1969 at Havasu. The picture below is from 69 and looking at the background over Big Job, you can see four Wings lined up side by side for the start. From the left it looks like a red 18', a blue 20', a red 20' (#96) and then a yellow/gold 20'. I believe that was the Switzer brothers entry in 1969.

I thought the 1968 incident happened right at the start and ended their day. I would have said that boat was yellow. I don't think Merc had any say over the disposition of the 20's. Maybe the Switzers were thinking they could use some good race results to help the sales of their new 20' and figured Bob Massey would do a better job of making that happen.


I think the red wing is actually #98 that Lee Richter & Joe Feilder drove for Red Adair.

[Old fiberglass]

Yes, Red Adair was the boat owner for 98...the red 20 foot wing.

[mark benson]

Old Fiberglass- You forgot wing T-135 Dave Sparks & Jerry Quinn from Ohio. Isn't that the Valley Supply wing that was still in the bush in Minnesota? Wasn't there two of them? Interestingly enough at Hasasu OWC in '69, all the wings but one, were powered by dual Mercurys. The only exception to that rule was # 333, the 20' white wing of Bob Nordskog. It was powered by dual Johnson GP's at 140hp. So, Bob Nordskog, who owned Powerboat Mag. at the time, had enough clout to get his hands on a wing some how even though he was an OMC guy. Wing T-414 "Jelly Bean" still exists & is alive & well in Ohio.:cheers:

[Mike Bruton]

The # 98 had been on top of a sign pole from70 to 74 (Lee Richter owned a merc dealership in Pasadena, Tx.) In 74 Lee sold his dealership. I was working for Adair at the time & Boots Hansen decided he wanted to take it & make a deck boat. I was put in charge of getting it back from the guy who bought Lee's store, who thought the boat was part of the purchase. After a few days of haggling over it, Mr.Adair's lawyers called the guy & explained that not only did Adair possess the title, but that his name was painted on the boat & Adair charged something like $65,000.00 a day for the use of his name. About 5 minutes after that phone call, I got a call from the guy & he told me to have the trailer there the next morning & he would have a crane there to load me up. Boots cut the top off the boat & put 2 old mark 55's I had laying around the shop on it. I heard it sank in Clear lake. The only one that came out ahead in that deal was me. Not long after that, Adair shut down the boat business & let me go. I complained to him that Boots had taken my engines, so to repay me he gave me all the Chrysler & Volvo special tools.

[Old fiberglass]

The # 98 had been on top of a sign pole from70 to 74 (Lee Richter owned a merc dealership in Pasadena, Tx.) In 74 Lee sold his dealership. I was working for Adair at the time & Boots Hansen decided he wanted to take it & make a deck boat. I was put in charge of getting it back from the guy who bought Lee's store, who thought the boat was part of the purchase. After a few days of haggling over it, Mr.Adair's lawyers called the guy & explained that not only did Adair possess the title, but that his name was painted on the boat & Adair charged something like $65,000.00 a day for the use of his name. About 5 minutes after that phone call, I got a call from the guy & he told me to have the trailer there the next morning & he would have a crane there to load me up. Boots cut the top off the boat & put 2 old mark 55's I had laying around the shop on it. I heard it sank in Clear lake. The only one that came out ahead in that deal was me. Not long after that, Adair shut down the boat business & let me go. I complained to him that Boots had taken my engines, so to repay me he gave me all the Chrysler & Volvo special tools.

Same story Lee told me except he said it sunk in Galveston Bay. Some folks on this site did not believe the story. Funny to hear things that went on during those times.

The Pearl Land 18 foot wing was copied by a guy who worked for Lee and decided to start his own boat shop. He saw how well Lee was doing. Lee could not recall where the 18 on the Pearl Land sign came from......it was on the tip of his tongue but he couldn't pull it out. He did recall it was black prior to going up on the sign.....which it appears to have been. Do you know anything about it ??

[Old fiberglass]

Old Fiberglass- You forgot wing T-135 Dave Sparks & Jerry Quinn from Ohio. Isn't that the Valley Supply wing that was still in the bush in Minnesota? Wasn't there two of them? Interestingly enough at Hasasu OWC in '69, all the wings but one, were powered by dual Mercurys. The only exception to that rule was # 333, the 20' white wing of Bob Nordskog. It was powered by dual Johnson GP's at 140hp. So, Bob Nordskog, who owned Powerboat Mag. at the time, had enough clout to get his hands on a wing some how even though he was an OMC guy. Wing T-414 "Jelly Bean" still exists & is alive & well in Ohio.:cheers:


There were two Valley Supply wings I believe. The one in the bush so to speak is owned by Jerry and the red one is owned by Steve Cox. Currently Steve's is rigged with Merc V-6's.

Funny story with the Nordskog wing. It was owned by OMC.....Nordskog had it for sale. When the last owner I know of went to buy it they started talking money. One of the OMC guys over heard the conversation. He quickly told Bob he did not own it OMC did....then he proceeded to tell Bob to pull the motors off and "give" it to the guy....FREE.

[Mike Bruton]

Pearland Marine was owned by Grover Spurlin (Lee's former service mgr.) & Ivan Christianson. When they sold out it stayed up on the pole for several years. I really don't know what happened to it. For all I know, it could be laying out in the field behind the place. In the 90's I did happen to see another wing laying in a field at Lake Travis (near Austin) It was sitting next to Hiram Muecke's old twin Moly. A few years later I rode up there to see if the Moly was still there & both boats were gone & a house had been built there. I wish I knew where they took them. I'd like to have either one of them.

[WharfRat]

Mike, over on ByUBoyz quite a while back, there was a thread on them bringing the wing down & it went somewhere, can't remember where though. I remember that wing being their sign for a damn long time.... You mentioned Ivan, is that the same Ivan that lived on CLear Lake?? Really wild partying all the time guy?

[Mike Bruton]

Mike, over on ByUBoyz quite a while back, there was a thread on them bringing the wing down & it went somewhere, can't remember where though. I remember that wing being their sign for a damn long time.... You mentioned Ivan, is that the same Ivan that lived on CLear Lake?? Really wild partying all the time guy?

Ivan lived on Clear Lake for a while. In the late 70's, about 7 people were killed on the San Jacinto river on Labor Day. One of them worked for Ivan & Grover. I heard that that several of the deceased people's family blamed Ivan & he had to leave town. I ran into him in the mid 80's & he asked me not to tell anyone that I had seen him. That was the last I ever saw or heard of him.
It's a shame because Ivan & I were good friends & yes we did some partying. But the accident I am talking about was, from my understanding, bound to happen. There were 7 people in a 17' single seat raceboat running at night w/no lights & were broadsided by a 26' Scatti Craft.

[WharfRat]

Yea, I remember that wreck, I think the employee was Bruce, I actually hung with Ivan quite a few times. He took me to the Conroe race where I helped pit for Rick Clausen.

[Old fiberglass]

In the 90's I did happen to see another wing laying in a field at Lake Travis (near Austin) It was sitting next to Hiram Muecke's old twin Moly.

I bet that was George Gustafson's wing. Was it a 20 footer ??

[T2x]

The wing that was taken down from the sign went to John Sherlock, who cleaned it up a bit and sanded it down to its original color. I believe he has sold it.

[Mike Bruton]

I bet that was George Gustafson's wing. Was it a 20 footer ??

I only saw it from the road. I don't even remember what color it was. I was more intrigued by the Moly.

[Mike Bruton]

Yea, I remember that wreck, I think the employee was Bruce, I actually hung with Ivan quite a few times. He took me to the Conroe race where I helped pit for Rick Clausen.

It wasn't Bruce. His name was Tommy. They had been partying all day at the Cove Marina & were heading up river either to Grover's house or Magnolia Gardens. In any case, they should not have been in a 1 seat, 70mph boat with no lights. Especially after a day of partying hardy.
You're probably thinking of Bruce Lowery who used to hang around with all the Pearland Marine bunch.
By the way, do you ever hear from Rick? Him & I were pretty tight for a few years.

[WharfRat]

Yea, now that I remember Bruce lost part of his leg or something in that wreck. I lost track of pretty much everyone many years ago, the only one I've talked to is Flo Hathaway which I think I told you about already (her & Tommy are in Nassau Bay) from what Flo told me, Tommy wasn't doing too well last I talked to her about 2 years ago.

[mark benson]

# 3 John Taylor-George Robinson red 20ft
# 4 John Bakos N/A 18ft
# 6 Jock Horner gold 18ft
# 16 Eddie Doyat black 20ft
# 19 Ed Stewart gold 20ft *triple Mercury*
# 22 Boots Spellman N/A 18ft
# 23 Gene Lanham;Dick Williams N/A 20ft
# 69 Ernest Threlkeld black/silver 18ft
#T-69 Ernest Threlkeld red 18ft
# 88 Steve Cox "Double Eagle" red 20ft
# 94 Gene Latham "Redbird" red 18ft
# 98 Lee Richter-Boots Hansen owner Red Adair red 18ft
# 108 William & H.L. Flagg N/A 20ft
# 111 Boots Spellman gold 18ft
# 114 Flying Dutchman Red/white trim 18ft
# 119 Kenny Kitson black 20ft
# 119 Kenny Kitson black 18ft
# 119 Kenny Kitson black 18ft
#X119 Kenny Kitson silver 20ft *triple Mercurys*
# 125 Jim Merten "Wet & Wild" black 18ft
# 135 Dave Sparks-Jerry Quinn dark blue 20ft
# 140 Bobby Massey yellow 20ft
# 183 Ed Stewart-Don Edmondson red 18ft
# 199 Gold Rush yellow 18ft
# 298 Bill Olney-Steve Olney red 18ft
# 333 Bob Nordskog-Carl Asmus white 20ft
# 351 Rich & Darren Luhrs black 20ft
# 410 Bobby Massey turquoise/red 18ft
# 414 Bob Best- Butch Schmitt "Jelly Bean" gold/orange 18ft
# 688 Alan Stinson-Ernest Threlkeld N/A 20ft
# 700 Dave Craig/Miss Skyway white/wood trim 18ft
#1111 John Fox-Robert Allan light blue 18ft
#7000 Odell Lewis white/wood trim 18ft:cheers:
# UU1 Spencer Dunn *Evinrude & Johnson*18ft
Boyton Beach Wing cream 18ft
Bernie Bergen's V-wing white-red trim 18ft

[T2x]

# 3 John Taylor-George Robinson red 20ft
# 16 Eddie Doyat black N/A
# 20 Gold Rush gold N/A
# 23 Gene Lanham;Dick Williams N/A 20ft
# 69 Ernest Threlkeld black/silver 18ft
#T-69 Ernest Threlkeld red 18ft
# 88 Steve Cox N/A 20ft
# 94 Redbird red N/A
# 98 Lee Richter-Boots Hansen red 20ft
# 108 William & H.L. Flagg N/A 20ft
# 114 Flying Dutchman Red/white trim 18ft
# 119 Kenny Kitson black 20ft
# 135 Dave Sparks-Jerry Quinn dark blue 20ft
# 140 Bobby Massey yellow 20ft
# 183 Unknown red N/A
# 199 Ed Stewart-Don Edmondson red 20ft
# 326 Jim Merten N/A 18ft
# 333 Bob Nordskog-Carl Asmus white 20ft
# 351 Rich & Darren Luhrs black 20ft
# 410 Niels turquoise/red N/A
# 414 Bob Best "Jelly Bean" gold/orange N/A
# 688 Alan Stinson-Ernest Threlkeld N/A 20ft
# 700 Johnny Bakos/Miss Skyway N/A N/A
#1111 John Fox-Robert Allan light blue 18ft
#7000 Dave Craig white/wood trim 18ft:cheers:


Eddie Doyat's wing was a 20 footer

John Bakos raced the U4 wood Switzer wing and drove a few others in races and testing. Dave Craig had at least 3 18 foot wood wings (he owned Skyway Marine in Miami...hence the Miss Skyway name and the #700 was his ride..not Bakos). The 7000 boat was not his, it was supposed to be raced by Odell Lewis (Gulf Wind Marine)and was made especially for Carl Kiekhaefer as a dream boat by the Switzer brothers. Sadly Dave (not Odell) barrel rolled it at the lake while doing some testing (probably the same day the attached picture was taken).

There was more than one "Flying Dutchman" Switzer wing including a wooden hull. There were, I believe, 4 (Miss Diablo #119) Kitson Wings (3 18's and a 20). Gene Lanham's boat was called "Redbird". There were also at least two wings driven at Havasu by Bob (18 footer-Black-winner) and Dave (20 footer) Switzer.

[Old fiberglass]

# 3 John Taylor-George Robinson red 20ft
# 6 Jock Horner gold 18ft
# 16 Eddie Doyat black N/A
# 20 Gold Rush gold N/A
# 23 Gene Lanham;Dick Williams N/A 20ft
# 69 Ernest Threlkeld black/silver 18ft
#T-69 Ernest Threlkeld red 18ft
# 88 Steve Cox N/A 20ft
# 94 Redbird red N/A
# 98 Lee Richter-Boots Hansen red 20ft
# 108 William & H.L. Flagg N/A 20ft
# 114 Flying Dutchman Red/white trim 18ft
# 119 Kenny Kitson black 20ft
# 135 Dave Sparks-Jerry Quinn dark blue 20ft
# 140 Bobby Massey yellow 20ft
# 183 Unknown red N/A
# 199 Ed Stewart-Don Edmondson red 20ft
# 326 Jim Merten N/A 18ft
# 333 Bob Nordskog-Carl Asmus white 20ft
# 351 Rich & Darren Luhrs black 20ft
# 410 Niels turquoise/red N/A
# 414 Bob Best "Jelly Bean" gold/orange N/A
# 688 Alan Stinson-Ernest Threlkeld N/A 20ft
# 700 Johnny Bakos/Miss Skyway N/A N/A
#1111 John Fox-Robert Allan light blue 18ft
#7000 Dave Craig white/wood trim 18ft

:cheers:

List is pretty jacked up.....for starters. Don't think you have been listening to some of what I was saying. The yellow 20 footer T-20 and T-199 are the same boat. Bob Massey never raced it. You have the T-199 Ed Steward and Don Edmonson listed as a red 20....they never owned one. They did have a 18foot wing that was red. They bought it from Kenny Kitson and was the infamous Miss Diablo repainted red. I'm pretty sure it was run as # 183. The Neil's 410 was bought by Bob Massey and reported to have sunk.

[willabee]

List is pretty jacked up.....

It's almost impossible to make an accurate list of these boats. So many of them had several different owners or, in the case of those owned by Mercury, they had several different drivers and numbers. There are about 26 on this list, some of them are wrong and there must be another 20 or so to add. Don't forget about the two owned by Bill Olney, add one each for Earl Welch & John DePritro, Boots Spellman and so on.The Merc owned Wings that didn't race aaaaand, never forget the fastest and the flashiest of them all.....that women charmer, that brave young lad with no fear, the man we all want to be some day.....that racing rascal, the amazing Renato Switzer Jones! :D

[mark benson]

Dear Mr. T-2x & Mr. Oldfiberglass- I see from your postings that you guys seem to know an awful lot about wings, probably a lot more than I will ever know. I have edited my original list with your input, which by the way is greatly appreciated. A lot of the research on my list of wings came from my Official Program from the 1969 Havasu OWC .As you know, boats are bought & sold at the last minute, so the program isn't totally correct all the time.As are the HP ratings suplied by the drivers, as you may know! If Bob & Dave S. ever raced at Havasu, it was in 1968 or before & I know for sure neither of them won unless they were co-driving with Kenny Kitson who won in 1968. The only wings I have ever seen in person are # T-414 "Jelly Bean" which had dual 125 BP's & was driven by Bob Best from Seattle, Washington in the late '60-early '70's. I heard a rumor that boat's in Ohio. Footage of that boat, both in the pits & in flight, can be seen on our site(Google) "Tunnel Boat Racing in the '70's"-The Havasu Story in the video "In Memory of # 226 Dave Potter". The only other wing I have seen in person was the # T-140 of Bobby Massey, that was at the Parker 7 Hour Enduro in the mid-'70's. I believe it had a pair of Merc 135's with speedmasters & was run by his friends as a tribute to his passing on, if my memory serves me correctly (but you know how that goes!) That wing can be seen in the pits & cruising in the video 1975 Parker 7 Hour Enduro Testing.:cheers:

[Mark75H]

I thought the Switzers said the total was more like 67 ... leaves a lot more unnamed

[mark benson]

Willabe- What is the # of Bill Olneys wing? Is it # T-288? What is the # of "Wet & Wild" & who drove it? I can't quite make out the numbers for sure & I will edit them onto my list when I confirm.

[Old fiberglass]

Mark....question what is the list intended for ???? Past racers/owners.....current owners....it's a miss match of info.

Olney's wing was a wood one. It was originally Jan Schoonovers....I believe he bought it new. Many years back I talked to Bill Olney and he said it did not run well....had some rot and several repairs by the time he got it. No idea what happened to it.

The yellow T-140 18 footer you saw run in 1975-ish was originally metallic red and is the one in my avitar. It was originally "loaned" to Jan Schoonover U-4 from Mercury to run at the Saltan Sea in 1967. At some point in time late ~ 1968 Mercury gave it to Bob Massey. In the early 70's it was painted yellow so it would be easier to see during races. It was supposed to have been a light layup and turned well for a wing.

Willabee can fill you in on the history of the Wet & Wild :D :D

[mark benson]

Old Fiberglass- I started out the list of wings from my research to see how many I could come up with & how many still were in existence, just for fun.My hope was to discover some new wing information on past history or a newly discovered wing in existence. But, you guys are no fun & are a bunch of "know it alls". I myself learned an awful lot about wings, that I never knew before. My idea was to make a list of wings at one place that could be updated as new information comes in, like it has today, meant for other members that might not know as much about wings as you,T-2X, Kitson, Willabe, & others who are still on the right side of the grass! I imagine you guys must have a secret master list that is much better than mine.:cheers:

[T2x]

Mark....question what is the list intended for ???? Past racers/owners.....current owners....it's a miss match of info.

Olney's wing was a wood one. It was originally Jan Schoonovers....I believe he bought it new. Many years back I talked to Bill Olney and he said it did not run well....had some rot and several repairs by the time he got it. No idea what happened to it.

The yellow T-140 18 footer you saw run in 1975-ish was originally metallic red and is the one in my avitar. It was originally "loaned" to Jan Schoonover U-4 from Mercury to run at the Saltan Sea in 1967. At some point in time late ~ 1968 Mercury gave it to Bob Massey. In the early 70's it was painted yellow so it would be easier to see during races. It was supposed to have been a light layup and turned well for a wing.

Willabee can fill you in on the history of the Wet & Wild :D :D

I believe that Olney's boat was the original wing...the U-4..( see pictures above). That boat was passed around like a whore at a sailers' convention and even spent some time in Offshore racer, Billy Martin's possession in 1965 when it sat at Bob Davis' Northwood boat yard with a pair of DR 800's and speedmasters, where I saw it. Back then Billy and Bob told me that it was slower than a converted 7 liter hydro they had with a pair of in line 100's called "The Beast" (due probably to its age and the fact that it had been used as a plug), and when I visited them one day they had actually forgotten to tie up the wing after a run and it was floating around Lake Hopatcong like driftwood before they went and recovered it. (This would have been pre-Olney, but right after the Switzers made the mold off of it)

T2x

[T2x]

Here's my list of existing wings from a few years ago with some updates:

Originally Posted by T2x
Up date........ The number dwindles... We are down to 15


1. El Diablo....Bob Valachovic/Kenny Kitson...18'

2. John Sherlock's "Wing on a Stick"( since sold)....18'

3. Ours " Dust'n the Wind"........20'

4. Boynton Beach Wing( now in the midwest)........ 20'

5. Fort Lauderdale area Wing........ 20'

6. Dick Davis' Wing (see below)..............20'

7. Connelly wing (rescued by Ron Hill).... 18'

8, 9, 10..... In a collection in Dayton, Ohio

11. Gene Lanham's (reported sold to Keith Eickert 10 years ago)... 18'

12. Mertens family Wing....................18'

13. Wing at a motorcycle dealership in Canada(Now Owned by Shadow Cat...The "Doyat" wing)....... 20'

14. Wing in New Mexico rigged with 2 x 65's.....18' (probably now in Rich Connelly's collection

15. The "Double Eagle"........................20'

The wing in Washington State was apparently sold some years ago and became part of the Florida group.......... according to the latest information. In addition, I am also advised that Gene Lanham's wing was sold some years ago to Keith Eickert. I am following up on that one. I spoke to Barry Cohen and his wing (a wood version) has been lost over the years. He gave it to a kid at a boatyard decades ago.

[Old fiberglass]

I believe that Olney's boat was the original wing...the U-4..( see pictures above). That boat was passed around like a whore at a sailers' convention and even spent some time in Offshore racer, Billy Martin's possession in 1965 when it sat at Bob Davis' Northwood boat yard with a pair of DR 800's and speedmasters, where I saw it. Back then Billy and Bob told me that it was slower than a converted 7 liter hydro they had with a pair of in line 100's called "The Beast" (due probably to its age and the fact that it had been used as a plug), and when I visited them one day they had actually forgotten to tie up the wing after a run and it was floating around Lake Hopatcong like driftwood before they went and recovered it. (This would have been pre-Olney, but right after the Switzers made the mold off of it)

T2x

Interesting story......Lake Hopatcong....it was in NJ at one time ??

[T2x]

Interesting story......Lake Hopatcong....it was in NJ at one time ??


yes.....

[Old fiberglass]

1. El Diablo III T-119....Bob Valachovic/Kenny Kitson...18' - black

2. Rich Luirs " Dust'n the Wind"........20' - black

3. Ted Millers Boyton Beach wing ( now in the midwest)........ 20' - cream

4. Fort Lauderdale area Wing........ 20' - ??

5. Jerry Jackson/Valley Supply......20' - black

6. Rick Connolly - U-4/T-140.... 18' - red

7. Rick Connolly - T-140 wing on a stick...18' - white

8. Rick Connolly - T-20, T-140 & T-199....20' - yellow

9, 10, 11..... In a collection in Dayton, Ohio

12. Mertens family Wing....18' - ??

13. Wing at a motorcycle dealership in Canada (Now Owned by Shadow Cat...The "Doyat" wing)....... 20' - black

14. Steve Cox/Valley Supply "Double Eagle".....20' - red

*********************************************
Don't think you can count the ones below. I'm sure there are more lurking out there, but should only count verified wings.

11. Gene Lanham's (reported sold to Keith Eickert 10 years ago)... 18'

I talked to Keith he sold it in the early 80's.....can't count this one since it hasn't been accounted for.


15. Wing in New Mexico rigged with 2 x 65's.....18'

Mystery boat that has never been proven.

[mark benson]

Old Fiberglass- Your master list of wings still in existence is only 14? I thought it would be way higher. In reality, I'm sure it is & will grow in the future as other wings come out of the closet.My list of wings that did exist, with your corrections, grew to 35. If the figure of 67 wings built is indeed correct- then I found about half of them in my research, which isn't bad for a days work. We must be doing something right on this thread because we have had nearly 1,000 hits & 30 replies in the last couple of days, so there is a lot of interest in wings in our membership! One thing I notice about your list is the wings # 8-9-10 in Ohio do not have any information about color, length, or past racing number. In other words, it makes it hard or nearly impossible for me to know which wings on my master list, still exist! Could you cast some light on these 3 wings or is it all hush hush? I think I know the #'s, color, & length of two of the wings & who has them & out of respect for privacy will not spill the beans, I promise.:cheers:

[T2x]

Old Fiberglass- Your master list of wings still in existence is only 14? I thought it would be way higher. In reality, I'm sure it is & will grow in the future as other wings come out of the closet.My list of wings that did exist, with your corrections, grew to 35. If the figure of 67 wings built is indeed correct- then I found about half of them in my research, which isn't bad for a days work. We must be doing something right on this thread because we have had nearly 1,000 hits & 30 replies in the last couple of days, so there is a lot of interest in wings in our membership! One thing I notice about your list is the wings # 8-9-10 in Ohio do not have any information about color, length, or past racing number. In other words, it makes it hard or nearly impossible for me to know which wings on my master list, still exist! Could you cast some light on these 3 wings or is it all hush hush? I think I know the #'s, color, & length of two of the wings & who has them & out of respect for privacy will not spill the beans, I promise.:cheers:

Wings 8-9 and 10 are owned by a collector in Dayton who also runs around his property in a WW2 motorcycle half track with his pet Orangutan on his lap (all true). I have spoken to him as he is a friend of Jon Culver's, but details beyond the number of wings are sketchy. a few people have seen them and might provide more detail. By the way the list is mine ( however no "ownership" of a list like this means anything).....I started it a number of years ago on another thread :

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78740&highlight=search+wings

...... which you are aware of since you have posted on it.

Having all these different threads may be confusing the issue so I brought mine back up and you may want to read it from the start to avoid going over a pre-plowed field.

The bottom line is that most of the wings are long gone. I seriously doubt that more than a couple are yet to be discovered, since Mercury Marine owned at least 2/3 of them and routinely bulldozed and burned old race and test hulls for corporate financial reasons. That is also where hundreds of Stackers, and Twisters ended up (stuffed in dumpsters, as I have seen personally). Since my original list in March of 2005, there have been only minor "discoverys" and omissions, the most notable being the
"Double Eagle". In fact more have been removed then added.

So post on, and I really hope that you find more, but I am not optimistic. I , myself would like an 18 footer, (if Rich C doesn't gather them all up :D). I will also undertake a project to re-create the 7000 hull after I retire with the aid of the guy who did the construction on the Conquest Cats we built for Offshore racing. In the meantime....welcome to the wing addicts club.

T2x

[Powercat]

Rick:
I notice that all 3 of these ran the number T-140 at one time or
another. Does that mean Bob Massey ran all three at one point?
Danny Léger



6. Rick Connolly - U-4/T-140.... 18' - red

7. Rick Connolly - T-140 wing on a stick...18' - white

8. Rick Connolly - T-20, T-140 & T-199....20' - yellow

.

[Old fiberglass]

Rick:
I notice that all 3 of these ran the number T-140 at one time or
another. Does that mean Bob Massey ran all three at one point?
Danny Léger

Yes, he owned all three at one point in time.

[T2x]

Yes, he owned all three at one point in time.


So are you collecting wings in general.......or Bob Massey's boats specifically? :D

[Old fiberglass]

So are you collecting wings in general.......or Bob Massey's boats specifically? :D


Wings....the sign post wing I wanted because it was Bob's.

I think you discount the yellow 20' find. It was not on "the" list.....not on anyones radar screen....was only one of two 20's run with triples....same person had it since 1969.....very clean for a race boat. Picture is when Bob had it.

I believe there are more out to be found there.....

[mark benson]

Wings....the sign post wing I wanted because it was Bob's.

I think you discount the yellow 20' find. It was not on "the" list.....not on anyones radar screen....was only one of two 20's run with triples....same person had it since 1969.....very clean for a race boat. Picture is when Bob had it.

I believe there are more out to be found there.....
What's this about rare triple wings? On my list of "Wings That Did Exist" :
# X119 Kenny Kitson Silver 20ft Triple Mercurys
# 19 Ed Stewart Gold 20ft Triple Mercurys
I don't see those two wings on T-2X's list of 14 "Wings That Do Exist"
Old Fiberglass- Could you please clear up any confusion concerning the triple wings:cheers:

[Old fiberglass]

What's this about rare triple wings? On my list of "Wings That Did Exist" :
# X119 Kenny Kitson Silver 20ft Triple Mercurys
# 19 Ed Stewart Gold 20ft Triple Mercurys
I don't see those two wings on T-2X's list of 14 "Wings That Do Exist"
Old Fiberglass- Could you please clear up any confusion concerning the triple wings:cheers:

PLEASE don't think I am billing myself as a wing expert......I'm not. All I can say is I spent alot of time tracking them down and trying to learn about them.

The only triple 20's I know of are Kitsons and Ed Steward/Don Edmonson's. Ed's ran under the number 19 or 199...on the updated list I did it is on there. See list below # 8. Kitson's triple X-119 has never been publically accounted for. Last seen on the Switzers plant as a sign....then pulled down and sold to someone in NY.

You need to define what the list is for as I said perviously. One list of wings are wings that are "surviors"....as in accounted for the other is a list of wings in your videos.


1. El Diablo III T-119....Bob Valachovic/Kenny Kitson...18' - black

2. Rich Luirs " Dust'n the Wind"........20' - black

3. Ted Millers Boyton Beach wing ( now in the midwest)........ 20' - cream

4. Fort Lauderdale area Wing........ 20' - ??

5. Jerry Jackson/Valley Supply......20' - black

6. Rick Connolly - U-4/T-140.... 18' - red

7. Rick Connolly - T-140 wing on a stick...18' - white

8. Rick Connolly - T-20, T-140 & T-199....20' - yellow

9, 10, 11..... In a collection in Dayton, Ohio

12. Mertens family Wing....18' - ??

13. Wing at a motorcycle dealership in Canada (Now Owned by Shadow Cat...The "Doyat" wing)....... 20' - black

14. Steve Cox/Valley Supply "Double Eagle".....20' - red

[largecar91]

Old Fiberglass- Your master list of wings still in existence is only 14? I thought it would be way higher. In reality, I'm sure it is & will grow in the future as other wings come out of the closet.My list of wings that did exist, with your corrections, grew to 35. If the figure of 67 wings built is indeed correct- then I found about half of them in my research, which isn't bad for a days work. We must be doing something right on this thread because we have had nearly 1,000 hits & 30 replies in the last couple of days, so there is a lot of interest in wings in our membership! One thing I notice about your list is the wings # 8-9-10 in Ohio do not have any information about color, length, or past racing number. In other words, it makes it hard or nearly impossible for me to know which wings on my master list, still exist! Could you cast some light on these 3 wings or is it all hush hush? I think I know the #'s, color, & length of two of the wings & who has them & out of respect for privacy will not spill the beans, I promise.:cheers:
Mark, I think most people respect your discretion and I am sure when the party or parties in question want to come forward with the information about some of the missing Wing info, they will. I know you already know some of the info now. Someday the list will be accurate but for now we will leave em guessing.:D

[mark benson]

Mark, I think most people respect your disgression and I am sure when the party or parties in question want to come forward with the information about some of the missing Wing info, they will. I know you already know some of the info now. Someday the list will be accurate but for now we will leave em guessing.:D
Dear Largecar91- I think the proper word is discretion. You are the one that gave me the heads about this when I first became a member Of S&F & started researching for our videos. I have heeded your advise and tried to work on my list without stepping on anyones' toes & respecting their privacy. This gives the members a glimpse of how hard it is to research "The History of Wings" when everybody is so secretive! Because of that, I might be trying to answer a question (how many wings still exist?) that can't be answered because of confidentiality! I guess I'll go back to my master list of wings that did exist & leave the list of wings that do exist (14 at last count:icon_bs: ) to T-2X & Old fiberglass.:cheers:

[largecar91]

Mark, I fixed the spelling(not my strong suit). I think you might have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I think what you are doing with the outboard history and videos is great and you sure have not crossed any boundries. I think in the near future you will see some Wings actually coming back out to play!

[mark benson]

Mark, I fixed the spelling(not my strong suit). I think you might have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I think what you are doing with the outboard history and videos is great and you sure have not crossed any boundries. I think in the near future you will see some Wings actually coming back out to play!
Largecar91- You spelled boundaries (boundries-sic) wrong. I think they will have to send both of us back to Elementary school! You to work on your spelling & me to work on my counting (math skills) when it comes to counting OMC Rotary outboards (2 Evinrude + 2 Johnson + 1 spare Evinrude + 1 spare Johnson = 6) Plus 1 non-funtional Rotary for show-rooms. Now, was that show-room Rotary a Johnson or an Evinrude? On a less serious note,(you know how serious Rotary John & "Mean Old Jacko" are when it comes to Rotarys) I've always wondered why your handle is "Largecar91"? Would you care to reiterate on that?:cheers:

[largecar91]

I run a trucking company now but years ago I drove a truck and a fast, big horsepower, extended hood Peterbilt is often called a "Largecar". Years ago I was leased to a company out of Colorado called Monfort. We hauled "swinging meat" and our trucks ran very fast. The left lane on the interstate for years was called the " Monfort Lane"!

[Mark75H]

There were 5 wooden ones built in all, and then we pulled a mold off #1 (U-4) and started making an 18 ft. version in 1965, there were 42 of the 18's made in all. And, a couple of years later, we tooled up a 20 footer ... There were only 20 of the 20 footers made in all. Two of the 20 footers were fitted with triple engines.

Total of 67, but most of them being 18's under Kiekhaefer's control ... That might be why there aren't many 18's showing up.

[mark benson]

Carl K tried to control the production & sales of fiberglass wings to "Mercury Factory Racers only". The only exceptions to the rule of Mercury power only on wings are # 333 Bob Nordskog wing-dual Johnson GT's (Powerboat Mag. owner). # 4 Jan Schoonover wing - dual OMC World T-Class record holder of 112 mph & a Chrysler Stacker wing that I am closing in on in my research. The T-Class Record of 100+ mph on a wing with OMC power must have burned Carl K's you know what! That would be the record of the fastest wing that T-2x could go after, if he ever put "The Pedal to the Metal!" Like Jackie Wilson said to Brett May when he asked him how fast his Cosworth boat would really go? Jackie said " I've never really had the balls to try & find out!"

[seeroy]

Mark Benson Quote - (That would be the record of the fastest wing that T-2x could go after, if he ever put "The Pedal to the Metal!")

I have a feeling that Rich's Wing with modern power is very capable of taking that record. The question is, can it be done safely? Somewhere along the way, I think Kenny Kitson said that it can. Fortunately, Rich is experienced and prudent enough to approach that mark very very carefully. I know that there are several other folks that are itching to climb into Rich's wing that have never driven/flown one. I had the wonderful experience of flying one 40+ years ago. I can still close my eyes and see/feel that ethereal experience. It draws you in to push it just a little bit farther. Dave Craig found out that there is a point of no return and I saw it happen. Once it gets high enough, you are only along for the ride. My unasked for, and very humble, advice to Rich is as follows: Continue your careful and prudent quest one small step at a time. Don't let anyone push you. If somebody else wants to get in the boat, let them sit on the right side while YOU stay in the left seat. And, most importantly, never forget that it is a 40+ year old boat, designed for mid-1960's power with twice that horsepower attached to the transoms. Be very careful my friend - Steve Sirois

[Old fiberglass]

# 4 Jan Schoonover wing - dual OMC World T-Class record holder of 112 mph & a Chrysler Stacker wing that I am closing in on in my research. The T-Class Record of 100+ mph on a wing with OMC power must have burned Carl K's you know what!

That statement is totally wrong...Jan never ran OMC's or Chryslers.

If you look on this page half way down you'll see the answer to your OMC statement http://www.retroboats.net/forums/showthread.php?t=32&page=5

[Powercat]

And eveyone thought the Switzer wing was the first...
This is from 1929

[Mark75H]

That's a new one on me ... Thanks Danny

[seeroy]

:smiletest:
And eveyone thought the Switzer wing was the first...
This is from 1929

Danny - Is that you in there? - :D Steve

[Powercat]

No sir, that would be a little "old school" even for me...
But, the picture below is me with the one and only
Power Cat wing we ever made.....
209794

:smiletest:

Danny - Is that you in there? - :D Steve

[seeroy]

Don't know if I have seen that photo before. But now that I have, I will add it to my presentation for OFF2010.
Best Regards - Steve

[T2x]

I guess I'll go back to my master list of wings that did exist & leave the list of wings that do exist (14 at last count:icon_bs: ) to T-2X & Old fiberglass.:cheers:

And this list is "BS" why? THese are boats that we have actually seen and documented..... The fact that there are others that are rumored to exist or that you are "closing in on" does not mean that anyone has actually seen them....or...that anyone has taken the time to post a photo or some other piece of evidence. This list is for wings that you can actually see and touch....... Maybe there are others hidden away in some collections, or at the Lockheed "skunk works". Until they actually see the light of day, they are as good as gone IMHO.

In the past 5 years only 1 or 2 have actually appeared. I hope that more come out of the woodwork..... but again....I doubt it. I know that Mercury destroyed a large number of the 18 footers, the wooden versions are long gone...and there were only 20 of the 20 footers, so where is this "mother lode" supposed to come from?

It's nice that there is a list of all of the wings that raced at Havasu, but many of them are the same boat raced in different years with different numbers........ Oh and one more thing....Nordskog's wing was a 20 footer...not an 18.

[mark benson]

And this list is "BS" why? THese are boats that we have actually seen and documented..... The fact that there are others that are rumored to exist or that you are "closing in on" does not mean that anyone has actually seen them....or...that anyone has taken the time to post a photo or some other piece of evidence. This list is for wings that you can actually see and touch....... Maybe there are others hidden away in some collections, or at the Lockheed "skunk works". Until they actually see the light of day, they are as good as gone IMHO.

In the past 5 years only 1 or 2 have actually appeared. I hope that more come out of the woodwork..... but again....I doubt it. I know that Mercury destroyed a large number of the 18 footers, the wooden versions are long gone...and there were only 20 of the 20 footers, so where is this "mother lode" supposed to come from?

It's nice that there is a list of all of the wings that raced at Havasu, but many of them are the same boat raced in different years with different numbers........ Oh and one more thing....Nordskog's wing was a 20 footer...not an 18.
Dear Mr. T-2X- If your best criticism of my postings on S&F are,"Nordskog's Wing was 20', not 18', which is a minor detail to me - it tells me I'm not doing too bad a job on my research into "The History of Wings". My facts and figures are usually derived from the actual "Official Programs", the "Powerboat Mag." and "Better Boating" articles of the event. You better than anybody else knows, "The older you get - the faster you went or in your case, "Could go!"

[Powercat]

One more on its way back to life ...
Thunderball

[FUJIMO]

One more on its way back...
Thunderball

From Canada eh? On its way back to the states? Who is the happy new owner?

[largecar91]

It is in Canada and not going to the U.S. He means that the man that owns it is getting ready to put it in the water as soon as the motors are done. Another one back on the water!

[mark benson]

UU # 16 is Eddy Doyyat 18 foot Switzer Wing.

[shadowcat]

mark-the boat is actully a 20 ft wing and has been totally restored to original race appearance and hoping to make its first public viewing at clayton race regatta in august with another popular wing (yet to be confirmed) coming

[T2x]

mark-the boat is actully a 20 ft wing and has been totally restored to original race appearance and hoping to make its first public viewing at clayton race regatta in august with another popular wing (yet to be confirmed) coming


"Dust'n the Wind II" will be there....and I look forward to seeing yours Ted. I must say that your restoration looks better than ours from the photos......... Nice job.....Congratulations.

[T2x]

UU # 16 is Eddy Doyyat 18 foot Switzer Wing.

Thanks......

We knew that already........

[shadowcat]

Thanks rich- hopefully other people will appreciate it when they see the detail I have done into make it look just like the day it raced-

[shadowcat]

thanks Rich -that's great news you are able to make it now - should be a great opportunity for some photo's of the boats together-

where's Miss Diablo??- would be great to have 3 switzer wings there?

-heard from organizers 3 mollinari tunnels are also coming

- see you there- 2nd weekend in August -Clayton Newyork Regatta