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AMOR
06-21-2006, 01:43 PM
THE BELOW CAME OFF ANOTHER SITE I VISIT FROM TIME TO TIME AND I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE OF INTEREST TO MANY HERE! GUESS ITS TIME TO START ASKING IF THE FUEL CONTAINS ETHANOL.

Ethanol can kill an engine: New additive creates several headaches for boat owners

By SEAN MULREADY
For The Patriot Ledger

Every boater on the South Shore is aware of the cost of gas this season.

What they might not be aware of is what’s in the gas. That ignorance might prove far more expensive than the increases people are complaining about.

Since last boating season, gas sold in Massachusetts has switched additives, eliminating the MBTE (methyl tertiary butyl ether), a suspected carcinogen, and substituting ethanol.

Connecticut went through this process in the last year or two. While local marinas try to figure out how to handle the potential problems, people like Grant Westerson can predict the problems. As executive director of the Connecticut Marine Trades Association, he’s heard from his members, and he’s certain that there is trouble ahead for Massachusetts boat owners.

‘‘We had problems,’’ he said, ‘‘and we have problems. If I said anything else, my members would be furious with me.’’

He said that boatyards, suppliers and dealers have all struggled with the issue since the changeover, but he deferred to Phil Gaudreau, a Connecticut-based marine surveyor with more than 30 years in the business, as the real expert in all of this. The two highlighted a half dozen problems caused by the change in the gasoline additives.

—Ethanol combines with water formed by condensation in the fuel tank. Without specialized fuel/water separators, that could deliver bad gas to your motor.

—Ethanol can carry dissolved particles to the motor because it has detergent qualities not found in gas with MBTE. It tends to dissolve deposits in fuel tanks and those get sent along to the engine unless you’ve upgraded your fuel/water separator and replace it when needed.

—If you have an older fiberglass fuel tank (made before the mid-1980s), ethanol could even dissolve the tank. Don’t worry about a ruptured fuel tank, however. Long before it ate that much resin, the dissolved chemicals would coat your engine parts and ruin the motor.

—Even without dissolved resins getting into the mix, ethanol gas tends to react negatively with gaskets and other equipment and some Connecticut repair shops had trouble keeping certain supplies in stock last season.

—Those boaters with metal tanks and good filters still have to worry about the way they fuel up. In the past, people often kept the tank topped off by filling up at the end of a trip. Ethanol fuel loses its octane rating in as little as a few weeks. You’ll lose performance unless you keep just fresh gas in the tank.

—Ethanol gas does not mix well with MBTE gas. You should burn off as much of the old fuel as you can before adding new gas this season.

Gaudreau characterized the issue as ‘‘troublesome’’ rather than catastrophic for most people but, because some had lost motors or time on the water, he said that he felt compelled to get out the word on what can be done. His advice was simple for nearly everyone.

‘‘Filters, filters, filters,’’ he said right away, referring to the fuel/water separators that help clean the gas drawn from the fuel tank before it gets to the engine. ‘‘The 10-micron filter is the best, but it will plug up more quickly as well. He used a 200-gallon mark as a reference point to use as a time to replace the fuel filter. For many that means at least one filter change in midsummer, and that’s after the transition has been made from one gas to the other.

When you first mix ethanol gas with older MBTE fuel, you may have to switch filters after only a few trips until the switchover to ethanol fuel is complete in your tank.

Newer high performance engines need little more help that that. Older ones need a lot more help, or else.

‘‘With an older outboard, a two cycle,’’ he said, citing what he had seen over the last year or two when boaters didn’t upgrade filters, ‘‘it will start to lean out, burn the pistons and ruin the engine.’’

Problems will remain even for those who get through the season unscathed. Boatyards had always told people to fill up before storage to prevent condensation. It was also safer in that full tanks allowed for little space for explosive fumes to collect.

Now, some are telling their customers to store tanks with as little fuel as possible.

Gaudreau disagrees.

‘‘It’s a real catch-22,’’ he explained. ‘‘If you leave the tank empty, it’s much more dangerous. You can do it but this gas does lose octane quickly. You’re going to have to add fuel stabilizers and keep the tank nearly full. When the spring comes, try to burn that older fuel down early.’’

It might be too soon to worry about next winter, but it’s not too soon to be safe.

Copyright 2006 The Patriot Ledger
Transmitted Thursday, June 08, 2006


For what it is worth.

Millers Landing is selling Ethanol free gas.

Fuel suppliers do not have to tell the distributor unless it is over 10 percent Ethanol. Many places on the lake are selling Ethanol blend and do not know it.

at100plus
06-21-2006, 03:10 PM
NIGHTMARE!:mad:

tux974
06-21-2006, 03:15 PM
Bulletin from Yamaha. They will not cover warranty if you run Ethanol!!

SportJ-US-1
06-21-2006, 03:18 PM
It aint gonna get better so learn to deal with it. I alway use stabilizers in my fuel over the winter (tank full) and drain the tank in the spring and burn the fuel in the rat car. Also a water/fuel seperator is pretty much required anymore and even though the EFIs have one on the engine an in boat spin-on set up is a good idea.

SportJ-US-1
06-21-2006, 03:20 PM
Bulletin from Yamaha. They will not cover warranty if you run Ethanol!!

How the hell are you gonna find fuel without ethonal in it? The gas stations don't even have to tell you there is ethonal in the gas unless there is more than 10%.

tux974
06-21-2006, 03:30 PM
How the hell are you gonna find fuel without ethonal in it? The gas stations don't even have to tell you there is ethonal in the gas unless there is more than 10%.
Here on L.I. and I believe in all of NY state by law the station must post it on the pump. Yamaha will only cover on 4 stroke models.

SportJ-US-1
06-21-2006, 03:33 PM
Here on L.I. and I believe in all of NY state by law the station must post it on the pump. Yamaha will only cover on 4 stroke models.

Federal law states more than 10% and they have to post it on the pump. Not the precentage just that there is alcohol in it. I wasn't aware that any states had laws covering it.

adrenaline john
06-21-2006, 05:23 PM
Thank you for posting this information. You have probably saved many of us from a potential melt down. I for one, am extremely greatful...... Cheers.:D

Jimboat
06-21-2006, 05:36 PM
Ontario, Canada Regulation [535/05] requires that by January 1, 2007, gasoline sold in Ontario will contain an average of five per cent ethanol. The new regulation is part of the government's commitment to reduce emissions and improve air quality across the province.

http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/envision/news/2005/100701mb.htm

Scream And Fly
06-21-2006, 05:37 PM
Jim, it's been way too long, I need to gove you a call!

Tantrum
06-21-2006, 06:32 PM
Im having problems right now with some of my fuel lines breaking apart. Filters and happy thoughts are my only line of defense at this point....uuuuugh!

bigshrimpin
06-21-2006, 06:44 PM
This post is the same bunch of "y2k" "killer bee" crap thats floating around. The boating industry is hurting . . . nothing like spreading some FUD to generate some $$$.

Tantrum
06-21-2006, 07:02 PM
This post is the same bunch of "y2k" "killer bee" crap thats floating around. The boating industry is hurting . . . nothing like spreading some FUD to generate some $$$.

Check out my new post. ;)

Jimboat
06-21-2006, 08:11 PM
Greg - I'm in my office during the day thursday & friday...call anytime. you've got my number.

adrenaline john
06-23-2006, 03:48 AM
Where can i buy a filter with a 10 micron filter rating. The auto market has never heard of a rating of microns for fuel filters. I have talked to a few local marina guy's and they are baffled about this 10 micron thing as well. Thanks.

tux974
06-23-2006, 04:22 AM
adrenaline, Yamaha sells a large 24 micron fuel water seperator. Just have to have the room for it. Tony

Jimboat
06-23-2006, 06:41 AM
Here is a link to Technical Bulletin (http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-5R3.pdf) explaining the micron rating for fuel filters. The Siera (Teleflex) water separator filter (http://www.teleflexmarine.com/cgi-bin/products.cgi?site=sierra&type=us&product=1098) line has a 10 micron filter.