Boat was seized today!!!

[david martin]

OK,My boat was taken an impounded today in Texas!!!Maryland registered! Not to mention I am pissed!!:mad:
I need your input on this situation,please.
DNR pulled my brother over and took the boat becouse I removed the serial number plate on the mid section.My brother calls me and I talk to the officer and he says its against the law to tamper with the numbers.In the state of Maryland I never had to register the motor.I built the motor myself and have no papers.
What can I do?I want my boat back and without the paper work they are going to keep it.I have the title for the boat and trailer and no papers on the motor becouse I built it with parts bought on line.The officer said I have to show up in court with papers for the motor or I basicly am f**ked!
Please some one help me or I am going to flip!!I would appreciatte any ideas!!
Thanks for any help
David

[1BadAction]

WHAT! Get a lawyer dude. Thats BS!

[Airboater]

I would think they would have to prove it was hot before they could impound it ,you sure this aint a aprils fools joke .

[150aintenuff]

Lawer up ... THATS BS.... and sence when did you
EVER have to title an engine??? boat ok trailer ok... MOTOR?????? HUH????? All i have ever seen is an MSO and that is only if you buy NEW and in the last few years....... tell the lawyer yopu built it your self and thus possesses no serial number because it does not meet production specifications to HAVE a serial number.. I would be findin that oficer and kick his ASS acoss the entire country untill he gave your boat back...
TOTAL BS

[Fl Boy in ILL]

There are several states that require the motor to be titles, I know I bought a used motor from Ok, it had paper

Rick

[Euroski]

Here in PA we only have titles for hulls & trailers and not the engine. If you were just visiting TX I don't think they can enforce TX laws for registration as long as it's legal in NJ?

Yep, get a lawyer... but it sux

[Slider]

Bring a gun... doh, did I say that:rolleyes: A lier, I mean lawyer will cost as much as the engine. I would think they would have to prove the engine was stolen to impound. That sucks man.

[Slider]

Texas Registration and Title Requirements

All motorized boats, regardless of length;
All sailboats 14 feet in length or longer or any sailboat with an auxiliary engine(s);
NEW — USCG Documented vessels (see section below); and
All outboard motors must be titled.www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/pwd_br_l2000_0001/ (http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/pwd_br_l2000_0001/)

Umm... it says REGISTERED IN MARYLAND.

[david martin]

Lawer up ... THATS BS.... and sence when did you
EVER have to title an engine??? boat ok trailer ok... MOTOR?????? HUH????? All i have ever seen is an MSO and that is only if you buy NEW and in the last few years....... tell the lawyer yopu built it your self and thus possesses no serial number because it does not meet production specifications to HAVE a serial number.. I would be findin that oficer and kick his ASS acoss the entire country untill he gave your boat back...
TOTAL BS
Kicking his ass is last on my list,I want one of his family members!!!
David

[NNT]

Man if this is a april fools joke,you nailed a bunch of em lmao if not,good luck

[SportJ-US-1]

But the boat is registered in Maryland, right? Then as long it is legal in Maryland the Texas cop can pound sand. get a lawyer and not only fight it, but sue they a$$hole for violating your rights.

[Slider]

Don't even tell me this is an April fools. I will get you back at the RANCH!

[chynewalkr]

whatever happened to innocent till proven guilty, if they cant prove its stolen you should be good

[david martin]

I am getting a lawyer Monday!
Is this legal or not? I will take them for a ride if I can!;)
I may fly to texas tomarrow so if I dont post its becouse I am in jail or I dont have access to a computer!!
David

[david martin]

This is for real no joke!! I am pissed!!
david

[Airboater]

Have someone call the texas DNR and say they are representing you and see what the deal is .

[Slider]

There has got to be more to this....

[Corona Mike]

David, we don't regestar motors here but, couldn't you get a rebuild title for the motor? Seems all you would have to have was a bill of sale for the parts used to get one. Good Luck, let us know how this B/S turns out. Mike T.

[barr151]

i am attempting to look up the seizure law now. but i figuered the more help on looking up info the better. there has to be a statue outlining what they are able to do and what they can seize. i agree if this is a joke there will be hell to pay.


http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/cgi-bin/cqcgi?CQ_STATCON_PROCESS_LOGIN=YES&CQ_USER_NAME=24.129.148.106&CQ_PASSWORD=statcon_pwd&CQ_LOGIN=YES

[david martin]

I got my tickets to Texas now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)
I will fight this come Monday,If they make me go to court,I will counter sue there ass!I dont like the thought of sueing anyone but if they want a fight I am there for the long run.Money is not a problem here,trust me on that one!I dont have money to burn but princible is a what life is about! I will burn it to prove a point!
David

[150aintenuff]

There are several states that require the motor to be titles, I know I bought a used motor from Ok, it had paper

Rick


I just bought a new motor about a month ago. came with an MSO not a title... must have to take an MSO to the state to get a title... good thing I live in oregon...

David.. it is allowed in texas to shoot to kill anyone endangering your person or property... KILLL THE BASTARDS... EVERYONE OF THEM!!!!!!! TAKE A GUN

[david martin]

I just bought a new motor about a month ago. came with an MSO not a title... must have to take an MSO to the state to get a title... good thing I live in oregon...

David.. it is allowed in texas to shoot to kill anyone endangering your person or property... KILLL THE BASTARDS... EVERYONE OF THEM!!!!!!! TAKE A GUN
Very true! I grew up in down town houston TX.My family was the only white family in the neighbor hood.(Not a joke )I had a rough life growing up!Learn to fight back is all I can say!I am a quiet person until I get mad!
David

[150aintenuff]

some one stealin my boat would cause me to launch some lead. and ask questions later... and impound is stealing in my opinoin..

[Gordie Miller]

this is above board, a lot of people here (me included) would chip in a few bucks to fight it.

[GelcoatJoe]

how long did you think you can ride wit no numbers? i bought a mid used, and if the # was missin, i would not buyit, i heard of this often in new york, the cop dont know whe the hell you got that motor, dude you need numbers....how does he know someone is not lookin for that motor?...some people pull off the tag and go boating wit a hotski motor......you will need a lawyer to prove thats your stuff, good luck.....

[barr151]

this is all that i can find so far.

§ 31.022. EXEMPTIONS FROM REQUIRED NUMBERING. (a) A
vessel is not required to be numbered under the provisions of this
chapter if it is:
(1) operated within this state for a period not
exceeding 90 consecutive days and is covered by a number in full
force and effect which has been awarded under federal law or a
federally approved numbering system of another state

this is about the id # on the motor:

(c) No person may intentionally or knowingly destroy,
remove, alter, cover, or deface an outboard motor[0] serial number,
the manufacturer's hull identification number or plate bearing the
hull identification number, or the hull identification number or
serial number issued by the department. No person may possess a
vessel with a hull identification number or an outboard motor[0] with a
serial number that has been altered, defaced, mutilated, or
removed.
(d) A person who has a vessel with an altered, defaced,
mutilated, or removed hull identification number or an outboard
motor[0] with an altered, defaced, mutilated, or removed serial number
shall file a sworn statement with the department describing the
vessel or outboard motor[0], proving legal ownership, and, if known,
stating the reason for the destruction, removal, or defacement of
the number. The statement must be accompanied by a fee of $25 and a
certificate from a game warden commissioned by the department that
the vessel or outboard motor[0] has been inspected by the officer and
appears to be as applied for. On receipt of the statement in
approved form, the department shall enter the information on
records of its office and shall issue to the applicant a hull
identification number or outboard motor[0] serial number.
(e) This section does not apply to vessels with a valid
marine document issued by the United States Coast Guard's National
Vessel Documentation Center or a federal agency that is a successor
to the National Vessel Documentation Center.

hope this helps.

[150aintenuff]

NEGITIVE!!!!!! information isnt needed he had to replace the clamp bracket, thus causing the removal of original SN , was a REPLACEMENT there for not stamped, and then blew up the powehead so he had to buy a replacement block casting..

or atleast that is what you tell them.. hwever that is also not aplicable due to the Maryland registration

[barr151]

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/cgi-bin/cqcgi?CQ_SESSION_KEY=VOBLFPOJYPFQ&CQ_QUERY_HANDLE=125067&CQ_CUR_DOCUMENT=6&CQ_TLO_DOC_TEXT=YES#HIT0003

[GelcoatJoe]

you need numbers on ya motor, bottom line...or be ready to relive this mess your in over again .....ride your car wit no vin plate , same thing.....it was made wit a number, now it gone.....wats the cop know? do you think he belives you built if from parts? he heard that before....get a laywer.....

[150aintenuff]

all he has to do is show a reciept for a midsection he bought and he can say he had to replace an original piece that broke, last i checked it waasnt unlawfull to replace a broken PART , it just so happened that it was the placement where the SN plate was mounted, also the serial number is only valid with the STOCK grouping of parts and pieces,(block, mid, lower) any deviation of the combination and the SN is no longer valid anyhow if you want to really push the issue, just like if you were to swap a body of a pickup to a different frame and motor, the VIN doesnt match between the body and frame, I have a old truck that was rolled and it has 4 different VIN numbers attached to it if you do a physical VIN check of all the locations that it is posted, Drivers door has different VIN than dash, dash has different VIN than frame, VIN plate attached to motor id different yet again, title VIN doesnt match any one of the ones attached to the truck in a physical check, the only place the VINS match is in the paper work.. all due to parts being replaced upon repair... no legal issues EVER in over 35 years.. and I got my fair shair of legal trouble with it as well

[david martin]

how long did you think you can ride wit no numbers? i bought a mid used, and if the # was missin, i would not buyit, i heard of this often in new york, the cop dont know whe the hell you got that motor, dude you need numbers....how does he know someone is not lookin for that motor?...some people pull off the tag and go boating wit a hotski motor......you will need a lawyer to prove thats your stuff, good luck.....
OK,so you are telling me if I stole a motor and buy a mid section with title and numbers I am good to run it?Man you are out of the loop!!
You are telling me if I steal a motor and replace the mid section with numbers I am good in the courts and law.You are crazy and if you think this is right I am going to steal every motor in your area and get rich.Mid sections with a title have to be cheaper than buying a new motor!
You are in good shape if that is the law where you live!Steal every motor you can and replace the mid section,you will never run out of motors.*******.
David

[GelcoatJoe]

ok, your right, go to police station wit ya bill, they will give it back.....i went throu this before, my transom had a plate covering 2 digets, guess wat, impound....and i bought it new......but i guess you know it all....good by

[The Big Al]

Ok, First! They can not take the boat or the trailer. Unless the engine can not be removed. Once engine is removed it can be seized.

Thier is a serial number on the engine block. They can look at that number. Now, if serial number are requiered, mercury has been using stickers for years on the mid-section.

Are you sure you brother is not playing April Fools on you??
Things are not adding up.

AL

[SERIOUS]

Get A Good Lawyer Look Up Old Cases That Match Your Situation Go From There If Legit You Should Come Out A Winner If Not Happy Trails To Your Toy Just My 02

[150aintenuff]

HIN is totally a differnt subject than an out of state motor, boat and trailer COMBINATION traveling THROUGH texas MAryland (as far as I know) doesnot requre title of motors there for david has EVERY RIGHT to say what ever he wants because he doesnt have to meet TEXAS law, just Maryland law.. for all the cop knows is the boat belongs to person A and person B was moving it out of state..

[david martin]

ok, your right, go to police station wit ya bill, they will give it back.....i went throu this before, my transom had a plate covering 2 digets, guess wat, impound....and i bought it new......but i guess you know it all....good by
No I dont know it all!! They took my boat and I am mad all becouse the mid section had no serial number mounted on it! The boat is legal and I called the warden in texas and they are willing to work with me,I am flying there tomarrow to speak with him in person.I will have my lawyer come Monday.If I dont get my boat back I will take this to court.
I am not trying to be an ass with you,I am just confused on this whole matter!Sorry if I made you mad.
David

[150aintenuff]

al is correct, and last I checked an outboard was not a permanant installation on ANY boat.. they are ALL removable

[SportJ-US-1]

you need numbers on ya motor, bottom line...or be ready to relive this mess your in over again .....ride your car wit no vin plate , same thing.....it was made wit a number, now it gone.....wats the cop know? do you think he belives you built if from parts? he heard that before....get a laywer.....

If Maryland doesn't require the motor to be registered then the Texas law can not apply. In Washington we register boats. Motors don't count because they can be removed. I have had several motors that I have created over the years and either they didn't have SN# or they sure as he!! didn't match. It's crap if his boat is legally registered in Maryland. Texas law can not apply. Hell, I don't have to obey Oregon or Idaho law and they are next door.

[Sharkey-Images]

Isn't this the same state that is arresting people for allegedly being drunk inside bars? :confused:

What they hell are they smoking down there lately???:rolleyes:

Sorry to hear of this David....:(

Good Luck!

[Scream And Fly]

David, we're here to help!

[150aintenuff]

Hell, I don't have to obey Oregon or Idaho law and they are next door.
NO****... you dont have to have that GOD DAMMED boaters card, lucky bastard

[The Big Al]

This is off the Texas Wildlife registration web site.
Now if they will let you purchase a boat with these rules then I see no cause for what they have done.

From the web site:

Out-of-state Title/Registration

Vessels and/or outboard motors coming from title states must surrender the title. Vessels coming from non-titling states, must surrender the registration certificate. Note out of state purchase rule!
Sales

The seller must:

Complete the tax affidavit portion of the Vessel Application form PWD 143 (http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdforms/media/pwd_143_a0900_vessel_boat_application.pdf) http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/images/media.gif(PDF (http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/site/software/#adobe) 347.9 <ABBR class=help title=kilobytes>KB</ABBR>) and/or Outboard Motor Application form PWD 144 (http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdforms/media/pwd_144_a0900_outboard_motor_application.pdf) http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/images/media.gif(PDF (http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/site/software/#adobe) 286.5 <ABBR class=help title=kilobytes>KB</ABBR>), sign and date each form; and
The seller must sign, date, and show the name of the purchaser on:
MSO (if brand new); or
The back of the Texas title; or
Out of state title/registration (which ever is required by the previous state)

[david martin]

Guys,I really appreciate your posts.My brother is not playing a joke on me!
I am flying there tomarrow.This boat was an inboard out board to start out with.I changed it over to an out board.My brother took it to texas and the boat got stripped on the side of the road.I bought all new parts for the boat including the motor over the internet.This boat has been peiced together.I have no receipts.
David

[Dave S]

going after REAL thives and thugs. Lets not stop 342,000,000,000,000 Mexicans from crossing in TEXAS.:rolleyes:

[david martin]

going after REAL thives and thugs. Lets not stop 342,000,000,000,000 Mexicans from crossing in TEXAS.:rolleyes:
I bet if I abload I would have the government on my side!**** them all!!
David

[Raceman]

Quote:''HIN is totally a different subject than an out of state motor, boat and trailer COMBINATION traveling THROUGH Texas. Maryland (as far as I know) does not require title of motors "

150, I think you're missing some important details with some assumptions that you're making. I don't believe that the requirement to title motors, or the lack of it is the same as having normally serial numbered items with the serial number removed. As an example, in Georgia off road four wheelers ARE NOT titled, but it's a felony to possess one with the serial number removed or to remove the serial number yourself. I believe that this same principle would apply to possessing an outboard motor without a serial number. I also know that someone coming through Ga. with a four wheeler (requiring no title) or a motor vehicle or trailer which does require a title would have it confiscated if there was no vin number.

One other comment: If you go before law enforcement "telling them" about these parts you replaced without documentation it's likely going to set their BS meter off. Personally, I believe that with no serial number there are some questions as to ownership and origin that are gonna have to be answered with more than just an oral explanation to resolve it.

Not trying to be negative, but just hoping you make the trip with realistic expectations and a reasonable chance of a positive outcome.

[Lockjaw]

That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I basically blew the sticker off my mid this morning with the pressure washer. Best I can tell, my motor is all original. I don't suppose it ever dawned on super genius security guard reject that stickers eventually come off metal objects that spend part of their life submerged in water. :rolleyes:


Oh and texas uses capital punishment, so don't do anything crazy.

[The Big Al]

My engine is from a 1996, 200 mid section,I replaced the complete powertrim unit this year, a replaced sportmaster lowerunit, and a new 2003 200 efi power head. No serial number at all, except the decal for the repower decal on the engine.
Now I live in NC, and we do not title engines. But this traveling has got me worried.

I have one of those hillbilly southern engines.

Al

[david martin]

I will set this **** straight! I am mad and All I want is my boat back.
Yes,I have no recipts for the motor and I dont care.I lost everything on this boat once.I will not loose the whole boat this time!:mad:
I have talked with my father and he says they are in the wrong to have my brother put the boat back on the trailer on private property and seize it from private property.I have a good lawyer to fight this one!:D
My father is helping me,got to love family!!!!:p
David

[Greg Moss]

the problem is the serial number not that you don't have the title. It's against the law to remove the serial number,period. without that number on there they have no way to tell if the motor was stolen or not. You may very well be screwed and not getting your motor back. You will get the boat back with a lawyer but I doubt very much you will ever see that motor again. The title is just a peice of paper so they can track who needs to pay a sales tax on it every time it's sold.

[Slider]

The boat is registered in MD. What the H*LL does TX have to do with this. {Reminder... never go to tx with boat}

Yay Team Member 2003!!!

[Raceman]

I will set this **** straight! I am mad and All I want is my boat back.
Yes,I have no recipts for the motor and I dont care.I lost everything on this boat once.I will not loose the whole boat this time!:mad:
I have talked with my father and he says they are in the wrong to have my brother put the boat back on the trailer on private property and seize it from private property.I have a good lawyer to fight this one!:D
My father is helping me,got to love family!!!!:p
David

David, first of all, we're on YOUR side, BUT, let's be realistic. The police aren't gonna care if you're mad OR what YOU want. They're going to enforce the law in their state, or at least what their interpretation of it is. Questions: Is your Dad an attorney? Is your "good attorney" familiar with Texas law? I'm tellin' you, if you don't have any documentation, I believe you've got an uphill battle. I think you need sound advice from somebody familiar with Texas law before you confront law enforcement and lay all your cards on the table. You may eliminate some of your options if you go into it unprepared and pissed off.

[barr151]

was he pulled over and checked or what? am i missing something.

1) "DNR pulled my brother over and took the boat becouse I removed the serial number plate on the mid section."

2) "I have talked with my father and he says they are in the wrong to have my brother put the boat back on the trailer on private property and seize it from private property"

[david martin]

the problem is the serial number not that you don't have the title. It's against the law to remove the serial number,period. without that number on there they have no way to tell if the motor was stolen or not. You may very well be screwed and not getting your motor back. You will get the boat back with a lawyer but I doubt very much you will ever see that motor again. The title is just a peice of paper so they can track who needs to pay a sales tax on it every time it's sold.
You are probably right,I want my boat back though!
I will hit this at every angle I can.They seized a boat on private property and took it from private property with no written statement from a judge.
I have 2 good lawyers now,one is my moms in Texas and one is my fathers in Virginia.All I want is my boat back!
Seizer under the wrong sircumstances can result in loosing the whole battle.I love the loop holes in the laws!!
David

[Slider]

I sure hope this works out well. I do think that there is more to this. Water Nazis suck. A buddy of mine got a $50 sitation for throwing a beer can at a water maccusan last weekend. Cops are pussies.

[The Big Al]

What were they doing there to start with?

Al

[barr151]

You are probably right,I want my boat back though!
I will hit this at every angle I can.They seized a boat on private property and took it from private property with no written statement from a judge.
I have 2 good lawyers now,one is my moms in Texas and one is my fathers in Virginia.All I want is my boat back!
Seizer under the wrong sircumstances can result in loosing the whole battle.I love the loop holes in the laws!!
David


if texas law is anything like florida they don't have to have anything from a judge. all they have to have is probable cause. but yes if they screwed up that can kick the whole thing out. follow raceman's suggestion and make sure you know what you are going to say. if you screw up and give up some info it could bite you in the ass. i hope it works out for ya!

[david martin]

was he pulled over and checked or what? am i missing something.

1) "DNR pulled my brother over and took the boat becouse I removed the serial number plate on the mid section."

2) "I have talked with my father and he says they are in the wrong to have my brother put the boat back on the trailer on private property and seize it from private property"
My brother was checked for life vest while sitting in the water (lake conroe)Texas.The officer noticed the serial number missing from the mid section and took it from there.Dudes an ass, I tryed to talk to him on the phone and he hung up on me!(I was not that nice to him)I cant blame him!
I was totally wrong,with talking to him the way I did.
The boat was in the water while they determined it needed to be seized.They had no right to have it brought to private property to seize it just so they got a trailer with it!
I will let you know how I make out.
David

[Slider]

The sad part about it is we all run a lot of mismatched stuff and for this reason you will NEVER see me with a boat at an event out of my province.

Because water Nazis are MORONS!!! BARR151 GTH!

[Raceman]

The boat is registered in MD. What the H*LL does TX have to do with this. {Reminder... never go to tx with boat}

Yay Team Member 2003!!!

If it's illegal in Texas to possess an engine with the serial number removed, it doesn't matter where the boat is registered. Like I said above, SERIAL NUMBERS AND TITLES ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS.

Again, I don't know Texas law, but I do know a fair amount about Ga. law. Here, the private property detail would have no relevance whatsoever UNLESS the boat/vehicle was enclosed in an area/building making it impossible to view and an illegal search was performed without a search warrant. Something that's in plane view would be fair game. It's the same as a routine traffic stop where some illegal substance or item is in plane view. It doesn't require a warrant to make an arrest. I'm pretty sure you're gonna find the private property detail is a NON-ISSUE in Texas also, unless the boat was in an enclosed garage or building that was illegally searched without a warrant. Again, using Georgia as an example, law enforcement can follow a person onto private property for a variety of reasons and is almost NEVER restricted from making an arrest because of property lines.

I am aware of a boat being seized here after a routine random "safety check" by DNR (which I've always thought illegal, but the courts have supported it) The boat was alledged to have been stolen. The DNR accompanied the person in possession of the boat to the ramp (privately owned marina open for business to the public) where they radio'd the county sheriff and had the person arrested and the boat confiscated. The person was charged with posession of stolen property. I don't know the outcome of the case, but third hand information was that he didn't get the boat back, but didn't do any time. I don't know any other details of whether it was really stolen, etc.

[The Big Al]

Remember 2 years ago when Nascar Busch series went to Mexico.
Texas and Mexico stoped all the trucks and said the cars must have serial nimbers are the would impound them.
They had to put serial numbers on the cars.
Can you believe that ****! RACECARS!!!!

[Slider]

Remember 2 years ago when Nascar Busch series went to Mexico.
Texas and Mexico stoped all the trucks and said the cars must have serial nimbers are the would impound them.
They had to put serial numbers on the cars.
Can you believe that ****! RACECARS!!!!

LOL, because law enforcment doesnt' have a clue.

[barr151]

what does "BARR151 GTH!" mean?

[david martin]

I fly out in the morning,I will keep you posted.I have to keep an open mind.I will let you guys and gals know how I make out!Wish me luck,I think I will need it!!:D
David

[Slider]

what does "BARR151 GTH!" mean?
Sorry, didn't think it took a rocket scientist to figure that one out. I guess I need to sspppeeeaak slllowwerrrr nneeexxxxtttt ttttiiiimmmeeee.

[Raceman]

LOL, because law enforcment doesnt' have a clue.

So you think the guys just make up their own laws? In the case of the guy that got his four wheeler taken here because he had one with the serial number ground off, who should he be pissed off with: the law and the people who wrote it.......... the cop who enforced it......... or himself for having an illegal 4 wheeler?

[150aintenuff]

my general thought for GTH is go to hell but i could be mistaken

[david martin]

Ok,no reason to argue guys.Lets be freinds.;) :D
David

[Raceman]

I fly out in the morning,I will keep you posted.I have to keep an open mind.I will let you guys and gals know how I make out!Wish me luck,I think I will need it!!:D
David

Good luck David. I hope it goes well. Can you document ownership of any part of the engine, like the powerhead? If so I'd take that along. Again, good luck.

[barr151]

just wanted to make sure. i don't know whats got your panties all balled up. i have been trying to help. other than just seeing you rant and complain about what you think is right or wrong i have not seen anything constructive from you.

[150aintenuff]

**** even with all the SN and VIN and HIN they Still cant find boats so who gives a Faq if it is missing a SN plate, sticker or whatever... also just because it isnt on the mid doesnt mean it doesnt have a SN.. isnt there a law some where that states the SN must be on atleast 3 locations on a motor

[Slider]

just wanted to make sure. i don't know whats got your panties all balled up. i have been trying to help. other than just seeing you rant and complain about what you think is right or wrong i have not seen anything constructive from you.

Not sure.. did he say something???

[150aintenuff]

ACutally in texas he could argue he was protecting personal property and he would be innocent so no charges could be imposed

[Slider]

Why yes mr. 2004 team member, I do like watching swine sweating..

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif Re: whats the deal
<HR style="COLOR: #72a5d8" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->so what your saying is you like watching grown men sweating?

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Slider
<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by barr151
whatever. i guess i will come to your job and throw rocks at you while your mowing.


<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Slider
<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by barr151
i hope he gets his boat back also. i agree its BS about siezing over a sticker. but to try and bust my balls over my job? come on. i never said all cops were perfect, far from it.


<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Slider
<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by barr151
thats fine but how is that helping martin?

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Slider
<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by barr151
whats got you pissed off?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->
Cop lover vs cop hater.. what is so hard to figure out?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->
I think he has it figured out so far. Not much anyone can do on this board to help. If this is a legitimate boat in an unordinary circumstance, my only hope is for the cops to lose credibility, which isn't too hard these days. And for him to get his boat back. Nothing more than some idiot,
pretentious water Nazi to take his boat away.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->
Cop = Enemy

Maybe that will clear things up?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->
ROFL... You keep wearing that dark green, polyester uniform with the bullet proof vest through June and July. That is what make me smile:)
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________
Patrick
Excuses only please the person telling them!
http://www.screamandfly.com/images/team2004.gif
<!-- / sig -->

[barr151]

EDIT: decided to be nice

just because we disagree about something doesn’t mean you have to be an ass about it. this is part of the problem. you are taking over another post because of your likes/dislikes. martin is dealing with a problem and people on here are trying to help and here you come. great you don't like cops. so what. your a real man typing all that behind a computer. everyone is entitled to that. but why bring that crap to this post? i tried talking to you about it in private and yet you put it on this post for everyone to see your an idiot.

[barr151]

that was my thought also. thats why i sent him a pm instead of putting it on this post. some people just like to keep things stired up.
slider, if you have anything else to say either pm or start another thread.

martin, i hope it works out for you.

[stylishskier]

wow, this sounds like major BS... I know you've got some good lawyers going into this but I am taking some law classes this semester in college, send me a PM or email and lemme know if you need me to look up anything specific in my law book! I would be more than happy to extend my reading to help out a friend in need

[INXS]

Here in PA we only have titles for hulls & trailers and not the engine. If you were just visiting TX I don't think they can enforce TX laws for registration as long as it's legal in NJ?

Yep, get a lawyer... but it sux

I would think the cop is in error? Since when can another state, maybe a boarder state, Inpound your boat for what is legal in your state. If NY, across the bay, said I needed a regs. for my motor I couldn't supply one. Are you sure that it's not just do to the missing plate? Even if it was you got to say that's crazzy if it's not a newer motor.

[Rickracer]

....it sounds like he's going to have to aquire/fill out the proper forms and documentation, but should eventually get his boat and motor back. Apparently, in Texas, (probably a lot of other states too), it is illegal to posess a motor (or just about anything else that comes with a serial number) with no serial number. Once he goes to the trouble to "get" serial number documentation on the motor, he should be good to go, and safe from a reoccurance if this extremely aggravating turn of events.

[Fish]

I am sorry to hear about your boat David. You have gotten some good advice above... and some "too much judge judy time" advice too, but at the end of the day, a texas attorney will steer you best. Get the form done, mention to your attorney about having a number stamped on the block and have paperwork for the block, and let him/her advise you from there. We are here for you if you need it, just some times well meaning advice is not as helpful with actual jurisdictional legal experience. Your attorney will tell you what rights you have. I am sorry you have to hire some scum sucker to get this undone, but sometimes cops make mistakes and you will be much better off with one than without.

fish

PS as mad as you are, try to bite your tongue with the judge, cops...etc, emotion will not help you get your motor back as much as they deserve it.

[vic peters]

If i'm not mistaken it's illegal to posses anything w/serial number obviously removed. There is a number stamped on the block. What I/m sayin is if there's evidence of intentional removal you mite be screwed. I bought my Ally outa Fla. still had not transfer to Tx. yet. got stopped & they didn't even wanna see nuthin the bote registration.. Ya musta got one o them real dichead Frog Marshalls... Sorry Pal!!!! Good luck

[david martin]

talk to you guys later,wish me luck
David

[Largemouthlou]

Good Luck David, and take Fish's advice!!! Louis




I am sorry to hear about your boat David. You have gotten some good advice above... and some "too much judge judy time" advice too, but at the end of the day, a texas attorney will steer you best. Get the form done, mention to your attorney about having a number stamped on the block and have paperwork for the block, and let him/her advise you from there. We are here for you if you need it, just some times well meaning advice is not as helpful with actual jurisdictional legal experience. Your attorney will tell you what rights you have. I am sorry you have to hire some scum sucker to get this undone, but sometimes cops make mistakes and you will be much better off with one than without.

fish

PS as mad as you are, try to bite your tongue with the judge, cops...etc, emotion will not help you get your motor back as much as they deserve it.

[David]

1. Be calm
2. Get a local lawyer with experience in this area of the law
3. The lawyer does all the communication with the courts and the police
4. You take a vow of silence. Only say what your lawyer says to say.

My Texa legal experiences are different from yours, but the above rules apply.

[hydroholic]

Talked to my mom's friend who is a Lawyer in the state of Florida. He said it doesn't matter what state you are from,if an item comes with a serial number and it is against the law in the state you are in(no matter whether you live in said state or are just visiting or passing through)to have possesion of an item that does not have a serial number,you are screwed.He said even if you have a bill of sale ,without that serial number it could still be stolen.As he said unfortunately the burden lies with you to prove it is yours,not for them to prove it isn't yours. But he did say that as long as there is a serial number somewhere on it other than that spot you will be able to get it back without having anything other than what your home state requires for registration.He said there is no particular location that it is required to be at on the item as long as where ever it is located,it was origanally placed there by the manufacturer.He also said that as long as the boat belongs to you ( you have paper work with serial numbers to prove it) that they have to give that back.They can only keep the motor, unless they can prove that the motor was stolen( by maybe finding another serial number some where else on the motor and running it and it comming back stolen)and then they can keep the boat ,motor,trailer and even the vehicle you were towing this with because it was all used to transport stolen merchandise and then you would be incarcerated and never get any of it back!So find that serial number on the powerhead and you will get your stuff back! Don't find it and you can kiss that motor by!Oh yeah,take Fish's advice and be nice,they are ass holes, they are incharge and they don't mind showing you they are in charge.Remember it's pretty shiittty,but the burden to prove you are the owner lies with you!Don't piss em off or they can make it very hard for you. My advise stay out of Texas,it's a desolate shiitt hole thats filled with trouble and invaders if you know what I mean!

[Ray Neudecker]

Good Luck. Let the lawyer do the talking. That is what they are for. As Raceman and others have pointed out, the laws on serial number removal really have nothing to do with the registration laws of the different states. Many states ban the removal of serial numbers of any product that comes with one. The manufactors have taken the easy cheap way out with glue on stickers instead of something more permanent such as engraving the number into the midsection and powerhead.

[T-REX]

The term "Doin my job" is a widely used term...That officer iz basically doin hiz job, even tho "In my opinion", he didn't use common sense, or evaluate tha situation!!...

I have had questions about the "Tampering" of the serial numbers, remove'in ov serial numbers, and re-installing numbers on diffrent mids...I bought a clamp bracket after a car run into a guyz mota, and broke it...if I took the serial number off the old one, it's TAMPERING!!...SO, I called the LAW&F for quidence...I wuz actually safer to produce a recipt for the unstamped mid, than to put the serial number on the new piece!!...My '91 mid haz original serial plate, but is totally unreadable!!...So, What do U do??...Which came first, the chicken or the egg??.........Cover your ass....

I have been standing on the side ov tha interstate, in handcuffs, In Texas, because I had a pistol in the door ov my truck...A loaded pistol....I wuz pulled over because I wuz drive'in Irratic!!!...Yea Rite...My truck wuz searched, every thang in it emptied along side the road, hastled for an hour(Yes, HASTLED)...then when they had thier fill, and thier BIG BUST planz wus shot, They throwed my pistol into the back of my truck, and left...Left me to re-load my truck, and boat(wuz pull'in the lil rex, before I rebuilt it)...I wuz pissed, and made several calls, and payed tha Sherriff a call...I am an X cop, and in La. U kan carry your pistol in plain site, and consealed if U have a permit(which I do!!)...I texas, U kan't carry a LOADED gun, UNLESS U have a TEXAS permit!!!...SO, each state haz thier own variation ov the law, and CAN inforce it how they so pleese!!!...In other words, before U go visit anuther state, LEERN THE LAWS THAT MAY APPLY TO U!!!...Save yaself sum greef!!!.............JMO...REX

[Liqui-Fly]

April fools:D

[delawarerick]

I bought my boat and motor and trailor from a dealer in De. The motor has no numbers on it at all does this mean I cant go to a title state. I am in the process of relocating to Fl does this mean I cant take this engine? I was told the powerhead was a replacement so the number is not on the block and the mid looks like it was put through he!!. What do I do junk the motor. David good luck. Rick

[diamond-back]

talk to you guys later,wish me luck
David

Good luck man..... I sure hope you can take care of everything.

[Ron V]

I would definitely get a lawyer, there is too much of this mentality in the law enforcement community.

The reason it is illegal to be in possession of a motor on which the serial number has been removed is obviously because of a concern of stolen goods. But, I agree they should have to PROVE it was stolen. The burden should not be on you to prove you didn't steal it, if precedents exist to the contrary, that is un-American B.S.!!! If the motor is from another state where the rules are different, then they should give full faith and credit to that and work with you so that you can register it as home-built or whatever.

A few years back, when I was living in Louisiana, I ran into a fish & wildlife officer in the local marina and he was running his mouth about how if the serial numbers on the powerhead don't match the midsection then you'd better have good documentation on where you bought the parts. This of course is now on a whole different level than "removal" of serial nubmers. He is of course spouting off all of this crap in a state where you didn't even have to register the motors, and what he was basically saying was that you can't replace a powerhead if you run a rod through the block, unless all of the transactions for the replacement are in writing. So it was like saying you couldn't buy a 350 Chevy from someone for cash and install it in your Buick Regal. I swear that if it weren't for jobs like that, most of those guys wouldn't be able to feed themselves.

[Raceman]

The motor has no numbers on it at all does this mean I cant go to a title state.

Man, this is a simple concept, but seems like everybody keeps stumbling over it. TITLE STATE AND REMOVED SERIAL NUMBERS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. If you don't believe me, call someone who knows IN YOUR STATE and ask them. Georgia is NOT a title state. In Georgia if you're caught runnin' around with an outboard motor with no serial numbers on it ANYWHERE, you've got problems. I just ran into a Game Warden at Subway several hours ago and asked him. He said that they don't routinely look for serial number plates on outboard motors, but if they happen to notice that the motor has no number, or if the boat has no number or the number appears to have been tampered with, the whole thing is going to impound until it can be resolved. (Georgia DOES NOT title boats OR motors) He also said that DNR would be more likely to closely scrutinize a boat with out of state registration if the registration didn't match the operator's ID.



The reason it is illegal to be in possession of a motor on which the serial number has been removed is obviously because of a concern of stolen goods. But, I agree they should have to PROVE it was stolen. The burden should not be on you to prove you didn't steal it, if precedents exist to the contrary, that is un-American B.S.!!!

Ron, that seems like a contradiction to me. So if the serial number is gone, how is someone 8 states away going to "prove" that it's stolen. Isn't that one of the primary reasons for serial numbering anyway? That almost sounds like giving anybody with a grinder a free pass to possess stolen merchandise. There's got to be a line somewhere................ where can it be drawn? Surely it's easy enough to document replacement parts with bills of sale, whether it's from a business or an individual. If an individual gives someone a bill of sale, then at least there's a paper trail to go back through if there's a problem.

[B.Mac]

All you need to do is prepare a notorized sworn affidavit that you purchased the midsection as "salvage" from a non-titling state and add any true relevant supporting information (shipping reciepts, S&F posting, whatever) anything to support your affidavit. If all else fails, the affidavit should be legally sufficient on it's face even without supporting information as the burden is on the state to prove that the midsection is anything other than what you have sworn to. Anything that shifts the burden of proof from the state to the owner is unconstitutional particularly if the state of origin/ registration is a non- titling state. Pay the $25 fine and take your boat home. The lawyers will have a field day with you otherwise......the whole system is set up for one purpose...... maximum financial extraction for legal fees.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdforms/media/pwd_144_a0900_outboard_motor_application.pdf

See page 3 Section "C" regarding the location of the ID#'s according to Texas own regulations.....
"typically found under the cowling on the powerhead"
B.MAC

[triple dude]

It's kinda like dirtbikes. In many states, you don't need a title but ya still have to have serial numbers on the motor. Probably your best bet is to show some proof of ownership of the numbers on the powerhead. Maybe that will help??? Not a pleasant thought but at least you'd possibly get boat, trailer and motor back minus the mid?? Another unpleasant thought--the guys at the impound lot have probably already stripped it. Better have pics of the whole rig just in case...

[Raceman]

All you need to do is prepare a notorized sworn affidavit that you purchased the midsection as "salvage" from a non-titling state and add any true relevant supporting information (shipping reciepts, S&F posting, whatever) anything to support your affidavit. If all else fails, the affidavit should be legally sufficient on it's face even without supporting information as the burden is on the state to prove that the midsection is anything other than what you have sworn to. Anything that shifts the burden of proof from the state to the owner is unconstitutional particularly if the state of origin/ registration is a non- titling state. Pay the $25 fine and take your boat home. The lawyers will have a field day with you otherwise......the whole system is set up for one purpose...... maximum financial extraction for legal fees.

B.MAC

B.Mac, I'm sorry, but that's TOTALLY false, not only legally, but it defies common sense logic. Like I said earlier, find a DNR ranger in YOUR state and run that theory by him and he's gonna die laughing. If you've got something with a serial number removed or tampered, you're NEVER going to shift the burden of proof to the state. AGAIN, FOR THE 10TH TIME, TITLE STATE AND REMOVED SERIAL NUMBERS ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ISSUES. Your affidavit idea MIGHT be helpful if it is documentable, and includes the notorized signature of the seller which can be verified, but just to prepare a page saying "I bought" and have your signature notorized is about as worthless as having nothing. If what you're saying were true, every theif in the world would just grind the numbers off, go prepare one of your documents, then tell the cops to prove it's all a charade. It ain't gonna happen that way in the real world. If it's a serial numbered item and the serial number has been removed, there's a problem if it's detected, title state or not.

[Raceman]

SR, I think you must mean paragraph C:

No person may possess a vessel
3-5 with a hull identification number or an outboard motor with a
3-6 serial number that has been altered, defaced, mutilated, or
3-7 removed. A person who has a vessel with an altered, defaced,
3-8 mutilated, or removed hull identification [<S>or missing serial</S>]
3-9 number or an outboard motor with an altered, defaced, mutilated, or
3-10 removed serial number shall file a sworn statement with the
3-11 department describing the vessel or outboard motor, proving legal
3-12 ownership, and, if known, stating the reason for the destruction,
3-13 removal, or defacement of the [<S>serial</S>] number.

I believe the problem here, based on what David has already posted is "proving ownership". I've said all along that if he can document the origin, then he can probably get somewhere, and I think that's the lesson everybody could learn from all this: If there's no serial number, the boat oughta have documentation of the origin of the parts in the dash. The laws are set up to make it difficult to use and transfer stolen parts and whole assemblies. It may make it inconvenient for the honest people who switch stuff around, but without it there's nothing in place to keep the theives from takin' our stuff, grinding the numbers (or in the case of a Merc mid, pulling off a sticky label) and givin' the guy who got robbed the middle finger.

If the engine and components are serial numbered, then I think the burden WOULD in fact shift to law enforcement to prove it's stolen, but in the case of removed numbers I think it's the owner's burden to prove it isn't, and I'll bet every state supports that position, whether a title state or not. Georgia doesn't title dirtbikes, 4 wheelers, boats, outboard motors, and probably other stuff that I'm not thinkin' of, but I know that it's a felony here to posess a 4 wheeler, dirtbike, or any motor vehicle with the serial number removed, and although I haven't seen it in print, suspect it applies to boats here too. (and the game warden said it does also, with the exception of some older pre-number stuff and some home builts)

[The Big Al]

I am neither an attorney or law enforcement officer, (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night) .

NOW THAT A GREAT COMEBACK! LMAO!!!

[The Big Al]

OK, after checking here is the problem.

David's brother who at the time was using the boat in Texas, and lives in Texas. So he is the one using the boat without proper registation. He lives in Texas and must have the boat meat Texas rules. If he had a writen permission slip from David then things might have been differant.

Now David does not live in Texas, if he had been with the boat visiting and letting his brother use the boat. The boat would fall under the requirements of a Maryland registration. No problem with engine.

I called a Texas wildlife officer and talked about this problem, acted like I wanted to go to texas with my NC registaered boat and it's hillbilly engine.
He told me the rules. If you are a Texas resident you are not allowed to operate a boat without all the requirements of the state.
Texas has the extream increase in stolen boats and engines for the last 3 years. They are inforcing the rules.

If I was with my boat, and i have a NC drivers lincence and NC registaered boat it falls under NC laws.

Now thats my .05 cents!

I just hope David goes with a good attitude. Things should be simple.

Al

[Raceman]

Now David does not live in Texas, if he had been with the boat visiting and letting his brother use the boat. The boat would fall under the requirements of a Maryland registration. No problem with engine.
Al

And the broken record plays again: It's not legal to have an engine with the serial numbers removed registration state or NOT. They may not check as close for removed numbers in Maryland, but that doesn't make it legal. It's ABSOLUTELY illegal in Georgia, a NON-registration state.

Al, I'll betcha' a beer it ain't legal in N. Carolina OR Maryland. The DNR ranger here said "in all 50" and when I asked if he was sure, he didn't exactly answer.

[david martin]

I am here guys and waiting for tomarrow.I love the warm weather.
I have a Texas lawyer(my mother)and I have a lawyer from maryland also.I think I will have my boat back.I am being told once the boat is back in my possesion,its time to counter sue!
I have the serial number on the mid section.My brother removed it so he could paint the mid and replaced it with new pop rivets.The rivets are made of copper not stainless steel!That flagged quick.
I really appreciate all your guys help,I am sorry if I angered anyone,I was very mad last knight and I do appolagize.I will let you guys know the outcome.
Oh! by the way,they will have to prove to me the boat has been in Texas as long as it has been.Got to love loop holes in the law!
Thanks everyone.
David

[Largemouthlou]

Good Luck David!! Louis

[david martin]

The officers involved in this seizer had my brother load the boat on the trailer that was parked on private property behind a locked fence.(Ramp and parking are in a private community)Once the boat was loaded they had my brother unlock the gate and they drove in and hooked the boat to their truck and seized it.If they had a problem with the boat in puplic water then I feel they need their own trailer to seize it.Am I right?
David

[GelcoatJoe]

you know nothing about the law ,keep your day job, for starters keep ya mouth shut, ita felony to remove a vin plate , and reinstall after paint....so now you nhave one felony comin.....fool

[david martin]

you know nothing about the law ,keep your day job, for starters keep ya mouth shut, ita felony to remove a vin plate , and reinstall after paint....so now you nhave one felony comin.....fool
I dont think so!Prove I removed it! Yes its been tampered with,take the motor so what! I will buy a new one.Still dont give them the right to take a trailer that did not belong to them, now does it!!I dont need to know the law I pay lawyers for that.I will keep my day job,it pays 3 times the pay of police officers.
David

[Fish]

David, I really think you should talk to a texas attorney. He/she will know what the law is in the jurisdiction where the crime supposedly took place. That really is your best bet for good sound advice on what the cops there can and cannot do, and what your rights are. I wish you luck man, and i hope this story has a happy ending. Keep us updated.

fish

[david martin]

I will let you all know the out come for sure.
David

[GelcoatJoe]

you dont get it do you?....they dont give a flyin @uck who took the plate off, it GONE,.....thats all they know, now you have to prove its belongs to you, and convince the police.....do you relize how much stealing and insurance fraud claims go on?....the cop i am sure sucks, be he dont know from nothin, you have no serial no. on ya motor and thats all the cop sees....ps dont be telling the police you or ya brother removed the plate wit the numbers, that would not help you....its missin leave it at that.....

[SportJ-US-1]

OK, after checking here is the problem.

David's brother who at the time was using the boat in Texas, and lives in Texas. So he is the one using the boat without proper registation. He lives in Texas and must have the boat meat Texas rules. If he had a writen permission slip from David then things might have been differant.

Now David does not live in Texas, if he had been with the boat visiting and letting his brother use the boat. The boat would fall under the requirements of a Maryland registration. No problem with engine.

I called a Texas wildlife officer and talked about this problem, acted like I wanted to go to texas with my NC registaered boat and it's hillbilly engine.
He told me the rules. If you are a Texas resident you are not allowed to operate a boat without all the requirements of the state.
Texas has the extream increase in stolen boats and engines for the last 3 years. They are inforcing the rules.

If I was with my boat, and i have a NC drivers lincence and NC registaered boat it falls under NC laws.

Now thats my .05 cents!

I just hope David goes with a good attitude. Things should be simple.

Al

That's BS. You are telling me I can't take my boat to Texas and let my brother use it. It still isn't his boat and they can't make a resident of another state register his boat in their state. And no one from Texas can operate the boat. Not gonna stand up in court as this forces a resident of another state to register in Texas when he isn't a resident, which I'm sure violates another law (at least it does here and would violate the law here as we aren't allowed to register our cars or toys other than here), then again Texas has proven quite often they have their collective heads up their a$$es.

[GelcoatJoe]

i am sure if the boat had all the numbers on the motor, i would be ok, sounds like the numbers on the motor missin started the problem.....

[The Big Al]

Al, I'll betcha' a beer it ain't legal in N. Carolina OR Maryland. The DNR ranger here said "in all 50" and when I asked if he was sure, he didn't exactly answer.

Well I taked with a Texas DNR officer! Not a Clay eating dumass Ga Officer!

And for the record! I don't drink bear! I drink Johnny Walker Black Label Scotch!

And by the way! You can drink bear in NC and operate a boat! As long as you do not go over the legal .08 blood content.
Web site for your enjoyment: http://www.ncwildlife.org/fs_index_05_boating.htm

More info for your search! http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/Nasbla_Ref_Guide_6.pdf
Page 48 for your exploration!

And maybe you need to read the post again! I TALKED TO A TEXAS!!!!!! DNR officer!

[david martin]

you dont get it do you?....they dont give a flyin @uck who took the plate off, it GONE,.....thats all they know, now you have to prove its belongs to you, and convince the police.....do you relize how much stealing and insurance fraud claims go on?....the cop i am sure sucks, be he dont know from nothin, you have no serial no. on ya motor and thats all the cop sees....ps dont be telling the police you or ya brother removed the plate wit the numbers, that would not help you....its missin leave it at that.....
I understand what you are telling me,I appreciate your help.The plate was removed but reinstalled.My brother already told them he removed it and reinstalled the same plate.It a crime and I know that now.They dont care about who tampered with the plate.They just said that the plate had been tampered with and that is the reason for seizer.No serial numbers came back as stolen property so they could care less other than the mid section plate being tampered with.I will let you know how I make out.
Thanks for the advise.
David

Dont call me a fool!! You dont know me.I am sure you dont know everything either.:p Take care.

[Raceman]

Well I taked with a Texas DNR officer! Not a Clay eating dumass Ga Officer!

And for the record! I don't drink bear! I drink Johnny Walker Black Label Scotch!

And by the way! You can drink bear in NC and operate a boat! As long as you do not go over the legal .08 blood content.
Web site for your enjoyment: http://www.ncwildlife.org/fs_index_05_boating.htm

More info for your search! http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/Nasbla_Ref_Guide_6.pdf
Page 48 for your exploration!

And maybe you need to read the post again! I TALKED TO A TEXAS!!!!!! DNR officer!





Ah, Black Label.............. a cheap scotch drinker.:D Let's make the bet a shot of JWalker Blue.

How in the world did we spin off on a BUI tangent anyhow? I thought we were debating serial numbers. I went down to page 48 lookin' for serial number regs. One thing that did surprise me was how many states on that chart lump BUI and DUI together for driver's liscense hassles. Luckily Ga. doesn't and hopefully they never will. Around here, you pay the fine for BUI and it's over with, but they're tough as hell on DUI.

Al, you're referring to your motor as "hillbilly", so should we assume that it's numerically challenged also???? I'd be interested in hearing what a NC DNR ranger would tell you if you asked SPECIFICALLY if you were stopped and the officer noticed that the serial number had been removed from your engine what the outcome would be. I think if most people here asked the question they might be surprised at the answer.

[barr151]

If i remember corectly, in florida your first BUI does not effect your D.L., but if you get a second one it does. also if you blow over a 0.2 it goes to a felony.
martin, i hope your next post is your bringing your boat home.

[The Big Al]

Ah, Black Label.............. a cheap scotch drinker.:D Let's make the bet a shot of JWalker Blue.

How in the world did we spin off on a BUI tangent anyhow? I thought we were debating serial numbers. I went down to page 48 lookin' for serial number regs. One thing that did surprise me was how many states on that chart lump BUI and DUI together for driver's liscense hassles. Luckily Ga. doesn't and hopefully they never will. Around here, you pay the fine for BUI and it's over with, but they're tough as hell on DUI.

Al, you're referring to your motor as "hillbilly", so should we assume that it's numerically challenged also???? I'd be interested in hearing what a NC DNR ranger would tell you if you asked SPECIFICALLY if you were stopped and the officer noticed that the serial number had been removed from your engine what the outcome would be. I think if most people here asked the question they might be surprised at the answer.

Well, let me tell you Raceman! I did not in anyway attack you!
And if I like Blue label I would drink it!
Second the most exspence wine or boose does not make it the best!
It's like your car collection! It's very important for you to have all this matching number **** becasue your not a driver! You a old man who likes to be in the game! But does not play!

I can not make a bet with you over any drink!
Because!
One If I lost I would have to pay for the drink! And as any drink bet goes you drink together!
Second If I won the bet! You would have to pay, and we would still have to drink together!

And that will never ever take place!
I drink with good people and friends!
You are not!
Get it?

[The Big Al]

If i remember corectly, in florida your first BUI does not effect your D.L., but if you get a second one it does. also if you blow over a 0.2 it goes to a felony.
martin, i hope your next post is your bringing your boat home.

http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/Nasbla_Ref_Guide_6.pdf
Page 50

.08 is the Florida limit/ .02 is under age! GO figure! But they have zero tolarance for underage! So i guess .01 is ok!:rolleyes:

[Raceman]

Well, let me tell you Raceman! I did not in anyway attack you!


Who said anything about attacks? You haven't said anything that I took as personal in all this, I just disagree with you on legal requirements for serial numbers. It ain't no big thing.

[The Big Al]

Who said anything about attacks? You haven't said anything that I took as personal in all this, I just disagree with you on legal requirements for serial numbers. It ain't no big thing.

Al, you're referring to your motor as "hillbilly", so should we assume that it's numerically challenged also????

[Raceman]

Al, you're referring to your motor as "hillbilly", so should we assume that it's numerically challenged also????

So I don't get it................ YOU (not me, YOU) referred to your engine as "hillbilly". I didn't understand exactly what point you were trying to make, so I asked the question ( in a humerous way, at least I thought) if by referring to it as hillbilly you meant that there were numbers issues with it also. (numerically challenged?) I'm at a total loss as to why that was offensive to you.

[The Big Al]

Ok! I took it as you were saying me and my engine were challanged!

And to answer!

My engine is very much number challanged!

First the sticker serial number from XR6 is gone. Powerhead is a 2003 200XRI powerhead, it has a repower decal from Mercury.
Lower unit is a 2003 Sportmaster, part replacement.
Came on the Boat with the 245hp engine.
Sold that engine and Midsection.

That's why I ask you for advice about mine!
I called Texas to ask, because David is a friend of mine about the rules.

NC does not give a crap!

But if the serial number plate has been removed we have a problem.
If a serial number has been ground off, we have a problem. Sign of serial number tampering.

From talking with David this is his problem. Serial number plate was removed. Old 2.0 litre engine that has a metal plate rivited on it.


Is thier a serial number on the midsection somewere else? When the decal type wear off, or in my case, painted over? The trim system with clamp system complete was a mariner, so I stripped it and repainted it.
But the midsection is still an 1992 XR6. It there a serial number on the midsection?

See! Hillbilly engine!

[Raceman]

It there a serial number on the midsection?

See! Hillbilly engine!

I don't know. I've got that old salty XR6 that I could look at. I think the old riveted on metal plates were a lot more secure than the stickers, but maybe a lot easier to tamper with.

By "challenged also" I was asking if your motor was challenged like his, NOT your motor and YOU. Even if I had meant it that way, it would've been intended as a friendly jab and not as an insult.

[The Big Al]

I think all the Mercury engine after 1990 had stickers.
But they must have the serial number on the midsection somewere.

Al

[Fish]

Al, I think bar151 said .2, not .02. .2 has enhancements on DUI's and BUI's. .02 refers to underage drinkers.

Bar, I am pretty sure over .2 blows are not a felony on BUI by themselves, but still not a good idea :)

[The Big Al]

Al, I think bar151 said .2, not .02. .2 has enhancements on DUI's and BUI's. .02 refers to underage drinkers.

Bar, I am pretty sure over .2 blows are not a felony on BUI by themselves, but still not a good idea :)

.2? How the hell could you still be awake? never mind, I know a few at .5 and they stand up!

[Ron V]

The biggest pile of crap about this whole thing is that if you call the state up and ask them if a given motor is stolen, they can't tell you. I went and looked at a 150 Evinrude that had the cut steering cables hanging from it. I got the serial number and called the DNR. They said they didn't have any of that kind of information and would rely on the State Police for that kind of information. So I called the State Police and their reply was that only the DNR would keep information on stolen outboard motors. You'd think in the era of computers a serial number would go into a central database and be reasonably, if not readily, accessible. Or you'd at least think that they would know who would have the information. So for them to come back and file charges against someone because a motor is missing a serial number is pointless anyway, they're too incompetent to solve the crime even when a number is on the motor!

Oh yeah, it was Sam Baker who finally helped me with that XP150 by running the number through the OMC database....the model number checked out okay but the serial number reverted to a 90 hp crossflow registered in Arizona.

I do have to agree with Raceman in the sense that you do have to ask why was a serial number tag removed. With all of my encounters with boats and with the collection of antique outboards, I've never had a serial number tag wear out. I guess it could happen. The whole thing of having to prove your innocence instead of them proving you guilty is a very dangerous proposition. The mere fact that a law that implies as such is on the books is frightening.

[barr151]

.2 on dui is a felony but not sure about bui. its not uncommon to see people between .2 to .35. anything above .3 have to go to the hospital to be cleared. i have seen a guy that was a 5'5" 150 mexican that blew a .39 and walked and talked just fine. you could tell he had been drinking but nothing like that.

[david martin]

You guys have lost me on this thread.I dont care though.I am partying tonight!
I get the boat back in the morning.The boat has been in Texas for 1 year!The boat was being painted and transom work done,the boat was out on a test drive to see if the transome held up.As far as the serial number on the mid section is concerned,Maryland does not register motors.As long as the mid has a number its good enough for Maryland.I told Maryland I removed and replaced the number plate with the same plate and that is not a problem with documentation.(I have photos and video of the plate being removed,mid painted,and reinstalation of the plate)NO problem in Maryland!
The warden says take it to court!We went over his head and spoke with the captain!(lawyer does wonders in person)Exsplained the situation on hand.Exsplained what our next approach was and everything changed.As long if the boat had proper registration that meets maryland law and no numbers where on the hot list,it was a done deal!I get my boat as soon as they verify Maryland doesnt require registration on motors!
I am getting the boat back and I love it!
Thanks guys and I really appreciate all your help and support!!!
David

What felony!! I have documentation!Did I leave that out?I am sorry,I cant tell all until nessasary.

Just for the records,I am donating the boat to purple heart!! I just wanted to prove a point!(princible)

Thanks again!

[QUICKSILVER]

This is a little off subject, but I want to change the color on my boat, and the area where the SR# is will be effected. The SR# is scribed into the boat with a sharp object. If I try and mask that area, it will show the old color that I don't want there, and leave a step in the finish. What do you do if that area was damaged from use, or by accident?

All my engines have the SR# on the swivel bracket. I guess when you say midsection, you are reffering to anything below the powerhead, and above the lower unit. What do you do when replacing the part where the number is, when replacing a broken part, or upgrading to a different style trim unit? If the tag gets removed by a pressure washer, what do you do? If the damn things just falls off, are you still a felon?

The DNR can take your stuff, issue a state provided number, and sell it at an auction. The person that buys it is legal, but you weren't, even if you did own it, and it wasn't stolen, all because you used a pressure washer, or got in an accident.

[david martin]

To save yourself a real headache! Take it to your closest DNR and have them inspect it and tell them what you want to do and take it back to them and have them sign off on the work done.
I went through some hell and I am donating the boat to save myself some future headache and to show these guys the boat means nothing to me!
Good luck
David

[Raceman]

WTF Does That Mean? :confused:

He's giving it to a charitable organization.

[david martin]

I will give the documentation with the boat.You have no idea what went into this boat.Lots of money and time! The boat is totally legal and the motor! With documentation of the motor and boat under resteration the motor can be issued a title from the state being registered in with proper paperwork!(Motor comes back clean,nothing stolen)with a bill of sale from the auction they will have a title for the motor as well as the boat and trailer.
David

[david martin]

David, really sorry to hear the news, wish it had gone better today...
I got the boat back!Not yet,but in the morning when they verify Maryland dosnt register boat motors I get to pick it up.:D Everything came back clean.
Take care
David

[jbj]

David,
Just curious as to who the game wardens name that seized your boat, I've heard about this happening about ten years ago at Lake Sam Rayburn and Lake Livingston. I live in the Conroe area, but do not boat there, they have gone overboard with so called enforcement.

[david martin]

David,
Just curious as to who the game wardens name that seized your boat, I've heard about this happening about ten years ago at Lake Sam Rayburn and Lake Livingston. I live in the Conroe area, but do not boat there, they have gone overboard with so called enforcement.
I would love to tell you,but I cant.I am not finished with this yet.They seized 3 boats this weekend.(all speed boats)I see a real problem here!
I will personal e-mail you after this is a done deal and everything is in play!
Sorry,
David

[david martin]

Is it the 19' Nordic w/ 200Merc that your giving away, that caused the problem?
Glad ya beat them, I guess :confused: May I ask WHY, so we all know?
No way!!! Not the nordic!
This is an aristacrat tunnel hull!175hp.1977 model.I have had this boat for 5 years.Motor got stolen in texarkana a couple of years ago and I replaced it with parts from on line.Boat finally hits the water and boom they try to take it!Well it didnt hold up.
David

[barr151]

glad to see its going in your favor. i can ony imagine the damn rollercoaster ride it must have been. see ya on the water.

[hugetime1]

ok a brief over view of how this was resolved! I don't feel like reading 11 pages of post

[david martin]

Pretty simple really.Texas DNR seized my boat over the mid section serial number plate(Plate was removed and reinstalled after mid had been painted copper pop rivets where used instead of stainless)They wanted regisration for the motor,I dont have the motor registered.They take the boat.
Really all I had to do is documentation of the work performed on the boat and they ran all serial numbers.Every number came back clean.Captain is calling Maryland DNR this morning and when they tell him Maryland does not register motors,I get to go pick the boat up.
David

Damn,that sounds simple;) Thats why we have lawyers.:D

[Sid Vicious]

I hope this doesn't set you back much. I met you up at Palatka you were riding in Big Al boat. Was looking forward to meeting your family and having Sterling pal around with them. Hopefully this doesn't screw up River Ranch for you, what a pain in the a**, when I was getting my motor built last year I didn't save any reciepts and some of the items I purchased didn't come with reciepts, buying used parts off someone else. Well good luck getting the boat home and hopefully will see you at River Ranch.
Sid

[david martin]

I hope this doesn't set you back much. I met you up at Palatka you were riding in Big Al boat. Was looking forward to meeting your family and having Sterling pal around with them. Hopefully this doesn't screw up River Ranch for you, what a pain in the a**, when I was getting my motor built last year I didn't save any reciepts and some of the items I purchased didn't come with reciepts, buying used parts off someone else. Well good luck getting the boat home and hopefully will see you at River Ranch.
Sid
No,this did not set me back at all.;)
I will see you at the Ranch with all my kids.I have my nephew now so he will be there also.
David

[Lanceonthelake]

After all this, it sounds like an April fools joke after all:D
I guess after all this (11-12 pages) we have all learned the differance between serial numbers and registration numbers, what states register motors, which don't, and to stay away from Texas if you have a performance boat with mismatched parts. Law enforcement would have a field day if they showed up at a drag race.

[tunnelmike]

They would impound all of our boats !

David ,glad all seems to be working out. Look forward to running with you in Kissimmee. Al I hope you are still able to join us.


mike

[RNM018]

YA ,They would probly have to purchase more property to store all te seize equipent if they showed up to a good size gathering . Sure hope there not paying attention to this thread . Now where did I leave those rivets ? I think I'd better go out and take care of this while we're on this subject . ;) Rich Martin 018

[The Big Al]

They would impound all of our boats !

David ,glad all seems to be working out. Look forward to running with you in Kissimmee. Al I hope you are still able to join us.


mike
I will be there! If I'm breathing I'm boating at Kissemmie!

[QUICKSILVER]

I don't think the DNR would survive trying to take some ones boat at a S&F get together. There would be a missing body, and a DNR boat parted out real quick.

[STV Tunnel]

ow my fuggin head hurts...........

[riebie]

David, glad everything is turning out OK.Good lessons for the rest of us.
Looking forward to seeing you and the family in Kissimmee.

[Slider]

just wanted to make sure. i don't know whats got your panties all balled up. i have been trying to help. other than just seeing you rant and complain about what you think is right or wrong i have not seen anything constructive from you.

LOL.. cop trying to help like a thief trying to give you home security advice...

David, You get your boat back?

[david martin]

LOL.. cop trying to help like a thief trying to give you home security advice...

David, You get your boat back?
Yes I did,I donated it to cherity to show them I did not care about the boat.I got it back for princible.
Now I am in court over tampering with the mid section numbers.(No big deal)The other problem I am having is I replaced the transome and had to remove the original numbers in the process due to the boat being an inboard outboard to changing it over to an outboard.I replaced the whole transome.They gave the boat back over an illegal seizer!(Private property and the boat meets Maryland requirements.
They are trying to lock me up for tampering with the numbers.This is a crime to them.(I have it documented with photos and recipes)Personally I think they feel I will give up on a counter sue!! F-them,I will fight this until I am broke.My lawyer says they have no case.The bottom line is the boat meets maryland requirments.

David

[Slider]

Wow, I thought this was a done deal... At this point, I am willing to chip in a few bucks to show big brother they are all idiots... Do you have a PayPal account?

[david martin]

Wow, I thought this was a done deal... At this point, I am willing to chip in a few bucks to show big brother they are all idiots... Do you have a PayPal account?
Slider,I appreciate your willing to help! I have plenty of money to fight these idiots.(Mom and Dad are going to help now)
David