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View Full Version : got to run a 200 H.O. etec today



Skittles
03-22-2006, 05:21 PM
It was set up on a seachaser 20ft flats boat w/ hydraulic jackplate and Evinrude's new "high performance" gearcase. I wish I could tell you I was impressed..........but IMO a 200 H.O. should be able to turn more than a 19p on a 20' flats boat........it turned a 14 x 19p 3 blade stainless viper about 58-5900 @roughly 50 mph......... I just wasnt impressed..........it was no less quiet than any other direct injected 2-stroke on the market.


As an interesting comparison for you verado haters.........


I also ran a 22' bayboat today rigged with a 200 VERADO..........no jackplate, with a hardtop, and it turned a 14 3/4 x 19p stainless powertech 6400..............showing 54-55 mph on the smartcraft speedo.....this boat is 2' longer and probably a foot wider than the other and it has a hardtop........both boats had 35 gals of fuel and that was it.........no gear, no passengers, just my 145lb arse and thats it.

The VERADO is one hell of a motor.

BarryStrawn
03-22-2006, 07:01 PM
The VERADO is one hell of a motor.

You should buy one and hang it on the T1. Let us know how well it screams and flys.

Skittles
03-22-2006, 07:45 PM
You should buy one and hang it on the T1. Let us know how well it screams and flys.

I'd like to try a 4 cyl Verado........if I still had the T1.........and I bet it would be VERY competative in SuperSport.:)

Scream And Fly
03-22-2006, 07:50 PM
The VERADO is one hell of a motor.

I try to tell people to get a ride in a Verado-powered boat all the time. Nothing beats that boosted torque. I've been in and driven both E-Tec and Verado powered boats many times. Yet most people that are for/against the Verado and E-Tec have been in or driven neither.

At Miami 2005, I was in a twin-250 E-Tec powered center console as we raced it against the same boat with twin 175 Verado engines. The Verados beat us, and I have the photos to prove it.

Greg

150aintenuff
03-22-2006, 08:12 PM
200 ho was unimpressive to me as well.. 225 ho is a different story...

BarryStrawn
03-22-2006, 08:12 PM
I'd like to try a 4 cyl Verado........if I still had the T1.........and I bet it would be VERY competative in SuperSport.:)

All kidding aside, I wish someone would.

msm
03-23-2006, 11:36 AM
Even Mercury isn't foolish enough to make claims like this:



At Miami 2005, I was in a twin-250 E-Tec powered center console as we raced it against the same boat with twin 175 Verado engines. The Verados beat us, and I have the photos to prove it.

Greg

Good "reporting" Greg.

Skittles
03-23-2006, 12:02 PM
Even Mercury isn't foolish enough to make claims like this:



Good "reporting" Greg.

I cant agree or not with Greg since I didnt see it...........but I certainly think it is possible. I run these motors every day, and so far the results are almost always the same. Bottom line...........Verado is in a class by itself right now. I am constantly running Suzuki's, Honda's, Yamaha's, and now Etec and the verado usually walks away in almost every area. It is BY FAR the quietest and smoothest running engine out right now, it almost always (especially on bigger boats) out performs the other motors........the digital throttle/shift is awesome,and the electric hydraulic steering is just as nice. I just dont see the other motor's comparing right now.

Now as far as the regular 4-stroke, and direct injected 2-strokes go.......I think the competition is pretty fair and even right now...........and you really cant go wrong with any of them.........

:)

Scream And Fly
03-23-2006, 01:15 PM
Even Mercury isn't foolish enough to make claims like this:Good "reporting" Greg.

I don't recall seeing you in either of the boats. Better yet, how many 250 E-Tecs and Verados have you run? Why don't you "report" on your experiences before you question my ethics? The funny thing is, I have no reason to ever not tell it like it is.

Inline-Six - reality check: The Verado was not designed for an Allison, STV, Mirage, or Hydrostream.

Mercury Verado-powered boat see us going out:


http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4104/1619uv.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9683/1628to.jpg

The driver of the BRP boat sent the throttles home. The Verado powered boat passed us and kept going. I have more frames of the boat passing us. Both drivers in the boats were having a good time, but I thought it was interesting.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7683/1670uz.jpg

msm, I'll make you a deal - how about you join me at Miami next year and you can come aboard as many E-Tec and Verado rides with me as you want.

Both are great engines, but you need to understand some facts before questioning my reports on them.

Greg

blkmtrfan
03-23-2006, 02:06 PM
msm, I'll make you a deal - how about you join me at Miami next year and you can come aboard as many E-Tec and Verado rides with me as you want.

Greg, I don't believe anything you say either :p :eek: :D :o

So can I come down to Miami next year and get some boat rides too :D

jphii
03-23-2006, 02:11 PM
Greg, I don't believe anything you say either :p :eek: :D :o

So can I come down to Miami next year and get some boat rides too :D

Me too!

150aintenuff
03-23-2006, 02:45 PM
hummm interesting.... but no shots of the Etech boat were they an apples to apples comparo... ie same hull???? i am alittle leary to give them 175s that much credit... i could see a 225 or somethig closer in power doin that but that is interesting for sure...

msm
03-23-2006, 03:30 PM
you need to understand some facts before questioning my reports on them.

Greg

Here are the facts I took the time to understand before questioning your report.

If outboard manufactures are required by law to be within plus or minus 10% of rated power, then in YOUR best case scenario (((.9 x 250) - (1.1 x 175)) x 2) there is still a 65 horsepower advantage on the slower boat. Explain that!

Now do you understand why I, and I'm sure many others, question your report? Surely, an unbiased and intelligent reporter wouldn't have reported what you did without offering up an explanation for what they saw.

By the way, I'd like to hang out with you in Miami next year, but not if you're pissed at me. :eek:

blkmtrfan
03-23-2006, 03:43 PM
Chris can you add to this thread:

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?p=858238&posted=1#post858238

Thanks

msm
03-23-2006, 03:47 PM
Inline Six: we need you to start working for Mercury soon!

msm
03-23-2006, 03:56 PM
Money isn't everything, and you've got the passion.

Hydrovector
03-23-2006, 04:08 PM
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/1647/broch268vw.th.jpg (http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=broch268vw.jpg)


This looks better that a Verado!!

Lockjaw
03-23-2006, 04:20 PM
I would love to try one of the 175 Verado's on my bassboat. I think it would be interesting, and I bet very soon someone will figure out how to chip one of the Verado's, and then you better look out, they will make a lot more power.

So far I have been less then impressed with the Etec. I haven't seen a case yet where it was vastly superior to a Merc or a Yammie. And their little blurb about "factory tuned for high performance" well that tells me NOTHING.

After all, some people think riding around with to much trim and porposing is high performance.

If it werent for California, and the greenie's we wouldn't even be having to deal with this mess. They suck!!!!!!!!!!

Scream And Fly
03-23-2006, 04:31 PM
The Verado is a piece of junk. Period. You guys are just biased towards the Verdao because you have this idea that mercury makes the best motors on the market. They don't anymore.

I can't speak for others, but I base my opinions on experience. I think the above statement by you shows nothing but bias. Myself, I never said the Verado was the greatest outboard ever made. Time will tell, but it IS the world's most advanced outboard.

I think E-Tec, Verado, and Optimax will all find applications where they can really be taken advantage of... Applications in which they were designed. I am excited about all three platforms. The fact that Mercury has given Scream And Fly more in the way of product releases and access to these products does not indicate a bias.

As a matter of fact, I'm heading to Key Largo next month to test E-Tec engines.

Making statements like "The Verado is a piece of junk. Period." is just nonsense. I think you should take a step back and think before you gear up to make misinformed statements like that. :)

Greg

Scream And Fly
03-23-2006, 04:41 PM
Now do you understand why I, and I'm sure many others, question your report? Surely, an unbiased and intelligent reporter wouldn't have reported what you did without offering up an explanation for what they saw.

By the way, I'd like to hang out with you in Miami next year, but not if you're pissed at me. :eek:


Of course I'm not pissed - these discussion forums are for this very purpose!:) Discussions on technology and outboards are what we're all about.

My observation was just that - an observation. It was not an official test or a controlled environment. Am I stating that the twin Verado 175 package will produce greater top speeds than twin 250 E-Tecs? Not at all. But In this particular case, the Verado-powered boat had an advantage. They were however, identical hulls. It was fun at the time, but again, the results were surprising. My post is not by any means an official test report.

There is something to be said for the torque of those boosted Verados though. Something you have to feel to believe.

I stated back then and I'll state again that the E-Tec should be pitted against an Optimax - not a Verado. But, new technology outboards like the E-Tec and Verado will be what's in the dealer showroom along with the Optimax, so I can see that side of things as well.

That's really it - we'll be running some tests soon, so that's when I can report official results.

Anyone that wants to meet up with me at Miami in 2007 has an invitation. Experiencing all of these engines is something you should all do!

Greg

Skittles
03-23-2006, 05:04 PM
I really think all you merc guys need to start admitting that mercury is going downhill.




That has to be the dumbest statement I have heard in a while..............

This whole post was not about the top speed being so great on either boat........but, rather the fact that a 200 verado was faster, quieter, and better overall running IMO than a 200 etec.........AND THE VERADO WAS PUSHING ALOT MORE BOAT.....without the help of a "high performance" gearcase like the etec used......nor the hydraulic jackplate that the etec had. We are not talking about BIG boats here .........this is a 22 bayboat and a 20 flats boat.........neither of which was designed for sterndrives.


Fact is............ETEC IS NOTHING MORE THAN A DIRECT INJECTED 2-stroke.......you know, like the one MERCURY has been doing for a decade.

Skittles
03-23-2006, 05:09 PM
The Verado is a piece of junk. Period. You guys are just biased towards the Verdao because you have this idea that mercury makes the best motors on the market. They don't anymore.

and yet another uninformed statement....................they have been EXCELLENT motors so far.........granted it is still early in the game, but we have sold a ton of them and have had very few minor problems.

Skittles
03-23-2006, 05:18 PM
:rolleyes:

The new johnnyrude stuff is just lightyears ahead of the mercs.




WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??????? THE ETEC IS NOTHING MORE THAN A DIRECT-INJECTED 2-STROKE..........MERCURY HAS BEEN DOING THIS FOR A DECADE........This is not any cutting edge new technology, it has just taken johnson/evinrude this long to catch up.:rolleyes:

bigbore
03-23-2006, 05:25 PM
225 H.O. against a 225 verado,same boat same setup and a (performance boat)i was kinda thinking we talked about this already:cool: so set it up greg,i'll drive the rude powered rig.very well i might add.it'd just be nice to know the flat out truth.:cool:

SUPAJAY
03-23-2006, 05:44 PM
The verado was designed for heavy hulls. Period. Its a heavy mota. It produces the torque like a sterndrive.

My uncle just replaced his 250 yamaha Ox66 DIRECT INJECTED motor with a 250 verado. On a 23 grady white... everyone knows that this boat is a tank. Before the swap his best top speed was 26mph and a cruise around 18-20. The verado pushes the boat to a top speed of 38mph and cruises around 30. Just a little improvement.... dont you think ? EVERY OUTBOARD HAS AN APPLICATION. Dont hate on the verado because it doesent fit your boat artinerary. :D

Stinky
03-23-2006, 06:03 PM
225 H.O. against a 225 verado,same boat same setup and a (performance boat)i was kinda thinking we talked about this already:cool: so set it up greg,i'll drive the rude powered rig.very well i might add.it'd just be nice to know the flat out truth.:cool:

If you wwant the truth, you better add the 225 Pro XS to the test.:cool:

:)

Skittles
03-23-2006, 07:27 PM
If you wwant the truth, you better add the 225 Pro XS to the test.:cool:

:)

That was my thinking........a 225 etec H.O. which is the slightly warmed over sporty 225 VS. a 225 pro xs which is Mercury's warmed over 225. Sounds like a fair match to me.......if memory serves me correctly they had a test like this............I cant remember the results ;)

150aintenuff
03-23-2006, 07:51 PM
didnt B&WB do a 225 ho ,225 sport xs, yamaha Vmax hpdi test with the only real advantage being the sporty gearcase allowin the motor to be ran high enough to yeild top speed honors wasnt everything else prety much identical

voo-doo_child
03-23-2006, 08:12 PM
[INDENT]:rolleyes:


WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??????? THE ETEC IS NOTHING MORE THAN A DIRECT-INJECTED 2-STROKE..........MERCURY HAS BEEN DOING THIS FOR A DECADE........This is not any cutting edge new technology, it has just taken johnson/evinrude this long to catch up.:rolleyes:

I'm not too sure its a time thing that kept OMC from going to Direct Injection, but more of an administration thing. Until BRP took hold of the reins there was no initiative by OMC to go to direct injection. Why sink another dime into a sinking ship.

I do believe the E-TEC is loosely based upon the DFI Rotax engines found in BRP's personal watercraft. Thus not necessarily saying OMC was playing catch up, but more along the lines of its new owners bringing already existant technology to the for front of their production line.

I really dislike the idea of BRP "catching" up.

I am striving to be "unbiased" as that seems to be the word of the day. I own a Mercruiser, or shall I say my father owns a MercCruiser. However I run OMC 9.9, and a Yamaha 70 almost daily 4-6 months of the year, and have run 2 stroke Mercs for many years. But honestly the Merc guys round here seem to think they are the be all end all.

I think for certain applications Mercs are the right choice, for other boats, maybe a BRP, Yammie, even a Honda.

In any event, I don't think BRP is way behind in terms on innovation, as compared to its compettitors. Good things come to those who wait.


Question? What were the sales numbers of Verado's as compared to the direct injected 250 xs mercs?

150aintenuff
03-23-2006, 08:21 PM
oh so the ficht wasnt DFI?????? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: boy I guess I was taught totally wrong....

150aintenuff
03-23-2006, 08:22 PM
and excuse me... but didnt the ficht come out first??? then mercs orbital

Skittles
03-23-2006, 08:31 PM
oh so the ficht wasnt DFI?????? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: boy I guess I was taught totally wrong....

Yes ficht was DFI...........The Etec is basically the new and improved ficht (for lack of a better description).

Voo-doo, I agree.......perhaps catch up was not the right way to word that. Given the company termoil, and ownership changes I cant imagine there was much time left for r&d.

I just find it funny when I see these Info-mercials about it being so "cutting-edge" and ahead of the comptetition. It is great to see them playing the game, but I still think they have a long way to go.

In terms of sales..........I am not in the sales side of it, but as a tech we are certainly seeing alot of fourstrokes going out, probably close to 50% are 4-strokes..........Verados are really starting to catch on .........this week alone we have sent 5 Verado's out the door. I really think it shows promise.........and I think the 4 cyl's have a ton of performance potiential.

1BadAction
03-23-2006, 08:41 PM
not to get into your "who can piss on merc the most" replys, but optis have consistently gotten better MPG in independent testing. (b&wb) so get your head outta your ass and stop believing everything those BS infomercials tell you.

other than that, trying to sort out all you twos bullchit is giving me a migrane.

Skittles
03-23-2006, 08:41 PM
Actually that was not what I said..........and if it came across that way, it was not my intention.

What I meant was simply the Etec is a direct injected 2 stroke..........just like the opti, or the yammi HPDI, or tohatsu lpdi........it is not really new technology, just a new and improved FICHT


Secondly the 225 pro xs IS NOT on a 15" mid........it is on a 3.0 L mid. And I guess you are telling me that it is fair to run a lightning gearcase.......but not a sportmaster:confused: :rolleyes: ........... Besides I remember the test against the REGULAR runn of the mill 225 opti......what is the excuse for that, Etec didnt shine there either

Skittles
03-23-2006, 08:44 PM
Just curious...........how many Verados and etecs have you run??

Skittles
03-23-2006, 08:51 PM
I am referring to the dealership I work for............I am part of the team.

And so you know.........I get paid by the hour to fix boats. I do not sell anything and I make the same no matter what kind of motor is on it.:)

Stinky
03-23-2006, 09:00 PM
Then how come the Etec has better gas mileage and better emissions than any Optimax merc out there?

The Etec is BETTER ON GAS and has LESS EMISSIONS than ANY merc. PERIOD.

I have never seen a published , independant test where an E-tec had better fuel consumtion than an Opti or even a Yamaha HPDI. Its always dead last.:confused:

bigbore
03-23-2006, 11:34 PM
If you wwant the truth, you better add the 225 Pro XS to the test.:cool:

:)
thats fine lets set it up,common greg,we can do it at my house even(i live on the river)plenty of room actually,i live on the biggest widest straight stretch of the river,plus we can film here in the back yard.There'd be a few camera's recording for this one-the e-tech somoking anything mercs. got.:D

bigbore
03-24-2006, 05:17 AM
yea i know im about to get killed from that thread so ALRIGHT BRING IT ON GUYS.
AND GREG BRING ON THE TEST,OH YEA,LEAVE THE CHAMP AT HOME-THATS CHEATIN.
BRP'S GOT NO RACING DIVISION-YET:D
SITTIN DUCK:cool: :cool:

Fish
03-24-2006, 07:50 AM
a test would be nice but remember with the etech over 20k and the mercs and the yams in the high teens, someone has to pay for them... so who is going to pony up $60,000 worth of motors?? I just checked, nothing but old stuff in my garage, anyone else have some new motors sitting around or an extra 60k??? if so, I am sure greg will give the generous contributor a killer monicer like "blingmaster team member", "trumpish team member" maybe even "mac-daddy team member" :D :D :D

Skittles
03-24-2006, 11:57 AM
I walk in the door this morning and the ETEC is back...........seems it ran decent for about 2 hours.......then on the idle back into the dock it starting revving up on its own and then stalling.......I want one:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

natzx7
03-24-2006, 12:46 PM
OMG you mean the glorious FICHT technology is problematic? thought I'd never see the day..:rolleyes:

Lockjaw
03-24-2006, 04:28 PM
That is one of the reasons I would stay away from an Etec. Its like buying the first year of a total re-design on a car or something. Let the die hard Johnny Rude people buy them, and let them work the bugs out, and then talk to me.

All manufacturers have lemons, I had a lemon silverado, which I really liked for alot of different reasons, and hated because they never could fix it right.

But if I had to have a 4 stroke, it would be verado all the way, simply because I believe you can take one of the 4 cylinder one's, and do some work to it, and get substantially more power from it.

And I got a news flash for you, none of the new outboards are going to be cheap to work on, they all have stuff crammed in there everywhere.

David
03-24-2006, 09:16 PM
B&W ran test of 250XS vs 250 Verado, the Verado won.
21' Procraft, 1790 lb hull (more than twice the weight of my Ally)
Verado 79.7 mph, 4.8 mpg, 712 lb measured (more than my Voo Doo + motor)
250XS 77.9 mph, 5.0 mpg, 545 lb measured

B&W 225 DFI shoot out was won by Merc.
20' Bullet, 1590 lb hull (maybe a little more weight than my SS2000)
top speed
Yam 87.8 (allowing the max rpm for 2006 engines)
Merc 90.0
Bomb 84.2 (limited by lack of low water pick ups, 86.7 w/alt gearcase)
acceleration
Yam 7.7 0-30 5.8 40-60
Merc 8.1 0-30 5.6 40-60
Bomb 7.4 0-30 5.1 40-60
peak fuel economy
Yam 5.8 mpg
Merc 6.2 mpg
Rude 5.0 mpg
measured weight
Yam 584 lb
Merc 520 lb
Rude 564 lb

Maybe the real story on top speed is that the sportmaster is the best gearcase. The Merc also got marks for the best handling thanks to solid mounts.

If anyone wants, I'll dig up the issue where the 200 Ficht was faster than the 200 Optimax.

The Verado may be a great engine, but for what boats of interest to me? Would it work on a Skater tunnel?

The Etech technology is the simplest mechanically of the DFIs out there. There is something to be said for that, but all new engines are scary to work on. Doubly so for the Verado. I've never seen a Verado wet.

Conclusions?
I'd like a 200XS for my SS2000.
I'd put a 225 Etec on a Tuff
An old Nissan would be great on a Voo Doo

The best engine depends upon intended use. S&F is a light weight high speed oriented place.

I'll still offer up my Ally for a lightweight V6 shootout, and I'd buy the winning motor.

JPQ
03-27-2006, 09:59 AM
I was curious about the different prices I see everyone is claiming on these engines, especially the 21K for a 250etec posted by greg. Two of my best friends work in the marine industry. One of them works for a dealership that sells BRB, Mercury, and Honda. The other works for a Yamaha dealership. The prices I was told was $16,500 for a 250etec and $21,000 for a 250 or 275 verado. :o The 21K includes the engine and the new mercury componets that is mandatory. They sold close to 40 etecs in the last year while only selling 2 verados. They are also replacing a supercharger on a 275 verado (less than 150 hours) this week. I asked about the price of the repair and was told $4,500 for the supercharger not included labor to replace! A verado computer will also set you back about $6,000.:o

Massbasser
03-29-2006, 12:53 PM
I have never seen a published , independant test where an E-tec had better fuel consumtion than an Opti or even a Yamaha HPDI. Its always dead last.:confused:

I've never seen this either. DUDE TURN OFF THAT ETEC INFOMERCIAL ON OLN, IT'S DESTROYING BRAIN CELLS!

David
03-29-2006, 07:30 PM
Never seen an Etech or Ficht anywhere but dead last?

B&W March 1999 200 shoot out

Johnny 68.8 mph 4.3 mpg
Rude 72.6 5.8 mpg
Yamaha 2.6L carb 68.7 4.3 mpg
Yamaha 3.1L EFI 70.3 4.3 mpg
Merc Carb 67.8 4.5 mpg
Merc EFI 69.6 4.5 mpg
Merc Opti 70.1 5.2 mpg

B&W Jan 2001 150 shoot out

Yamaha 53.2 mph 5.3 mpg
Merc 52.7 mph 5.8 mpg
Rude 53.4 mph 4.6 mpg

B&W Oct 2004 90 HP shoot out

Rude 49.9 mph 8.8 mpg
Honda 47.7 mph 9.2 mpg
Mercury 49.7 mph 7.1 mpg
Suzuki 44.4 mph 8.2 mpg (49.5 mph if allowed to over rev)
Tohatsu 48.0 mph 9.7 mpg

Interesting that Tohatsu and Merc both use Orbital technology.

My conclusion from all the B&W testing is that none of the DFI technologies show an obvious advantage in all cases. The Merc racing stuff is special, perhaps in part because of the gearcases.