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View Full Version : Keep hearing (RUMORS) that Hydrostream(JIM) is CLOSEDUP!!



yellowallison
03-03-2006, 09:56 AM
Keep hearing rumors and not so good stories that Hydrostream is closed and (JIM) has moved back to California!!

Jus curious if anyone had any FACTual information on the situation to see if the rumors are TRUE???????????????????

jphii
03-03-2006, 10:01 AM
Say it ain't so!

RBT
03-03-2006, 10:08 AM
heard the same thing........... I wouldn't be surprised.

RT

Inline Six
03-03-2006, 10:28 AM
Hey lets ask his buddy Clyde he always has good things to say about him!

Maybe he temporarily closed shop to help homeless orphans....we shouldn't be jumping to any conclusions here guys.

Slider
03-03-2006, 10:41 AM
Heard the same thing... Somethinig about Andy's Comp being the last boat built...

RBT
03-03-2006, 11:08 AM
Hey we should start a post to see who he either screwed the worst or owes the most amount of money two...... I know the list will be impressive!

RT

Riverratt
03-03-2006, 11:11 AM
I knew it had to be someone else on RBT's computer yesterday. RBT the bastard is back today.:p

blkmtrfan
03-03-2006, 11:12 AM
If it is true I think that it is unfortunate :mad:

RBT
03-03-2006, 11:13 AM
I am hung over..... I will be better once my second coffee sets in.

Riverratt, I am not trying to be a dick, ( though I think it comes naturally to me ) but I have very little sympathy for Jim. He has left a trail of distruction behind him. Has screwed most of his dealers, owes at least 3 people I know a significant amount of money...... 10's of thousands. That is not to mention some other problems.

mikesufka
03-03-2006, 11:38 AM
Heard from a very good source that Hydrostream is done. Too bad, they were
making a nice comeback.

Mike Sufka
St. Cloud, MN
American Offshore/Twin 300X's

350cavi
03-03-2006, 11:48 AM
GOOD!!! serves him right for screwing people!

Riverratt
03-03-2006, 11:58 AM
Riverratt, I am not trying to be a dick, ( though I think it comes naturally to me ) but I have very little sympathy for Jim. He has left a trail of distruction behind him. Has screwed most of his dealers, owes at least 3 people I know a significant amount of money...... 10's of thousands. That is not to mention some other problems.
I know this was your hot button for a long time and rightfully so. I just had to bust on you for acting like you had a heart yesterday. You were not fooling us.:p

1BadAction
03-03-2006, 12:20 PM
maybe LPB will get one, splash it, and call it a Lightning Hydrostream Venom. http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2504/wank4xg.gif

Inline Six
03-03-2006, 12:22 PM
maybe LPB will get one, splash it, and call it a Lightning Hydrostream Venom. http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2504/wank4xg.gif

LMFAO

blkmtrfan
03-03-2006, 12:48 PM
maybe LPB will get one, splash it, and call it a Lightning Hydrostream Venom. http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2504/wank4xg.gif

OK that was pretty funny :D

RBT
03-03-2006, 12:49 PM
Agreed, best comment I have seen in a long while :D

Scream And Fly
03-03-2006, 01:15 PM
Jim never responded to our registered invoice.

jphii
03-03-2006, 01:17 PM
maybe LPB will get one, splash it, and call it a Lightning Hydrostream Venom. http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2504/wank4xg.gif

I wanna see raceman top that one!

Hydrovector
03-03-2006, 01:20 PM
Hate to see this happen, :(

LPB
03-03-2006, 01:39 PM
Talk $hit about a GUY ,that has done nothing to you !!

RBT
03-03-2006, 01:42 PM
actually, I am just not a fan of people who steal ( like you ), or don't pay there bills ( like Jim ).
I don't need people that lack integrity.

good day

RT

LPB
03-03-2006, 01:44 PM
Dose jim owe you money ????

Liqui-Fly
03-03-2006, 01:55 PM
Dose jim owe you money ????

We shouldn't judge rapists unless we are the one that got raped:confused:

yellowallison
03-03-2006, 01:57 PM
Sad News.. I was looking forward to seeing one of the new 127MPH Venom edition BASSBOATS! :p :p :p

LPB
03-03-2006, 02:03 PM
YOU should know first hand that he has done something wrong befor $hitting on him in public !Not just some bunch of guys wanting to talk $hit about every body !This web site needs a new name SCREAM AND CRY !! I have never seen such big MEN behind a computer ,that turn out to be LITTLE GIRLS in person !!

jimmyj
03-03-2006, 02:05 PM
The sad truth , there is NO money in making small boats 26ft and up is where it is at.

msethsmile
03-03-2006, 02:10 PM
I don't know Jim from Adam. Met him once at his shop and at the allison rally.
The models seemed well built, good looking and fast. If the closing is true my advice is to put the best construction on everything. I doubt he set out from the git go to screw people. A fact of life is businesses close and some of the creditors get to eat it. That's the risk taken by everybody. I assume he did his best to offer the hi-perf industry (common man section) another choice and simply fell short. It is very difficult (impossible?) to make a go in the 20 foot hi-perf arena. Point the finger at merc. Prices and offerings are a joke. The boat builders and the customers get to suffer. EPA didn't help either.

Inline Six
03-03-2006, 02:12 PM
YOU should know first hand that he has done something wrong befor $hitting on him in public !

I do know first hand. Give Hot Boat a call. He still hasn't paid for ads years ago. Heck, give half the people he has delt with a call and you'll hear the same.

Inline Six
03-03-2006, 02:15 PM
Point the finger at merc. Prices and offerings are a joke. The boat builders and the customers get to suffer. EPA didn't help either.

Mercury and the EPA aren't the ones that ordered boats, received them and never paid for them. I would rather deal with Mercury any day over Jim. Mercury may rape you when it comes to prices, but at least if you make a deal with them THEY FOLLOW THROUGH. You don't order motors, pay for them, and then never receive them.

Mercury doesn't sell SEIZED motors either....I know some of you know what I'm referring to.

RBT
03-03-2006, 02:17 PM
Greg posted he is owed........ how is that for first hand.
Inline six is owed A LOT of money, not first hand, but he is a good friend of mine, and I protect my friends.

RT

FLMIRAGE
03-03-2006, 02:26 PM
Regardless of who makes it guys we need to hurry up and and find that VENOM mold. Before some one ruins that plug. See LPB you thought your stocks were down after yesterday's b.s.:eek: :eek:
I think Andy stiffed him on the deal thats why he closed or Andy wrote a check and bought him out.:D :D

Corona Mike
03-03-2006, 02:30 PM
I heard he gave the boat just so he could nave D.C.I. 2005 HI-Points Champ on the boat!!:D :D

rmh77
03-03-2006, 02:48 PM
actually, I am just not a fan of people who steal ( like you ), or don't pay there bills ( like Jim ).
I don't need people that lack integrity.

good day

RT

There isnt anyone thats gonna top LPB in that department:D

Rusrog
03-03-2006, 02:49 PM
although it is apparent that several of you have... Damn shame. I think he was building some really nice boats and I was looking forward to getting one in a few years.

He wrote ODBA a check to be an Associate Sponsor at Jasper the last 2 years and they were good. If he is in trouble; I hope he makes good as I figure that willl be the last straw for Hydrostream....

Russ

RBT
03-03-2006, 02:52 PM
I like(d) his boat too, just not his business practacies.

BTW, Hydrostream has been avaliable in Canada all a long.... and continues to be. Just not the new models, although they did develop a new Voo Doo.

RT

jphii
03-03-2006, 02:55 PM
RBT, where is info on the new Voo Doo? Webpage?

luvgoing fast
03-03-2006, 02:55 PM
Do your have any pictures of the new finshed voo doo? i didnt get to see the final product.

RBT
03-03-2006, 02:57 PM
Ask inline six.

I will look to see if I have any...... don't think so.

but they are BADDASS.

built with infusion!........

RT

voo-doo_child
03-03-2006, 02:57 PM
Spaeth and Hydrostream Canada could acquire the molds for the venom and or the other re-tooled Vegas, Voyager boat moulds?

I think it would be great to see Hydrostream become a completely Canadian Company. I know the build quality would be second to none.

luvgoing fast
03-03-2006, 03:00 PM
Thx RBT, i will just wait for him to see this or i will PM him.

voo-doo_child
03-03-2006, 03:03 PM
of the new voo doo

jphii
03-03-2006, 03:07 PM
That's a good lookin boat. Any in the States? If Hydrostream (Jim) has crapped out can they be brought down?

Inline Six
03-03-2006, 03:08 PM
Ya thats it. that one is a base model, with wood and full interior. Now you can get complete composite, or an infused boat. I think that was the third out of the mould, second went to Fred Bonehead at Baysville. First one is top secret, if you see it I will have to kill you. lol

Inline Six
03-03-2006, 03:10 PM
That's a good lookin boat. Any in the States? If Hydrostream (Jim) has crapped out can they be brought down?

Of course they can be brought down, by the truckload if you wish. He only owns the name in the USA, not the rights to our products.

voo-doo_child
03-03-2006, 03:17 PM
Might this secret be leaked at the upcoming Fomula V races?

Can these be rigged with 15" motors?

voo-doo_child
03-03-2006, 03:17 PM
What is the weight on the new voo doos?

Hot Shot Merc
03-03-2006, 03:23 PM
Not that it matters much anymore but he stiffed me out of two Hydrostream decals back in 2000.I ordered rubrail fro my V-king resto and two stickers at $20.00 each.I never got them and he never returned my calls about them either.Theres your first hand knoledge.:)

350cavi
03-03-2006, 03:24 PM
Hey Inline, I think I saw the "first" one,I think you were putting foam core in the top deck:) . and the transom looked to be very very thick too.....like thick enough for a 2.5 maybe.....

Pro300x24LD
03-03-2006, 03:28 PM
how much is a Voo Doo ?

RBT
03-03-2006, 03:30 PM
Inlines is about 120 lbs..... cannot build a better boat. It is badass....... but I doubt people would pay for all the upgrades.

RT

Pro300x24LD
03-03-2006, 03:31 PM
I meant $$$ :D

Inline Six
03-03-2006, 03:46 PM
Might this secret be leaked at the upcoming Fomula V races?

Can these be rigged with 15" motors?

Yup its for 15 inch motors....if I get the 650XS on it and running in time I'll bring it to the races...in the process of motor switching.

They can be infused, composite, light weight layup, or whatever you want.

Inline Six
03-03-2006, 03:48 PM
Hey Inline, I think I saw the "first" one,I think you were putting foam core in the top deck:) . and the transom looked to be very very thick too.....like thick enough for a 2.5 maybe.....


Ya that was the boat...how fast that one you guys got from us end up going and with what power? It looks like its aired out pretty good there.

350cavi
03-03-2006, 03:56 PM
The boat goes 48.6 with me in it witht he motor spinning at around 6400rpm :eek: . Chris sent the prop out to add about 2 pitch, dropped the motor down to about 6000 rpm and he said he gained approximately 2 more mph, so with me driving it it would probably do 50 on gps. the boat was built awsome, the thing is as hard as a rock, I have never felt the thing flex when I go over wakes at high speeds. You guys do awsome work!:cool:

Pro300x24LD
03-03-2006, 04:20 PM
is that US or Canadian funds?

Trikki1010
03-03-2006, 04:24 PM
maybe LPB will get one, splash it, and call it a Lightning Hydrostream Venom. http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2504/wank4xg.gif

Jim,

That thar is some funny chit:eek: :eek:

Trikki1010
03-03-2006, 04:31 PM
Yup its for 15 inch motors....if I get the 650XS on it and running in time I'll bring it to the races...in the process of motor switching.

The stock models like you see in the above photos without the motor, control box and trailer are $5000. They can be infused, composite, light weight layup, or whatever you want.

The boats are MINT, and I mean MINT

I want one from Chris, all I gotta do is scrape up some money. Then it'll be the ole Delta w/ the 70 Merc Shorty vs. Voo-Doo w/ Shorty Stinger:D

It WILL happen soon. It has too. I gotta get a 14 yo & 15 yo on the water at the same time;)

yellowallison
03-03-2006, 04:33 PM
Regardless of who makes it guys we need to hurry up and and find that VENOM mold. Before some one ruins that plug.

RUMORs I've heard is tha VENOM MOLDS are in CAlifornia already ??????????????

Trikki1010
03-03-2006, 04:34 PM
Greg posted he is owed........ how is that for first hand.
Inline six is owed A LOT of money, not first hand, but he is a good friend of mine, and I protect my friends. RT

DITTO

I know Chris and his dad John Spaeth very well also. GREAT people...I know first-hand from them what the deal is. Money is but only one grinding issue:mad:

The other issue was dealt in a previous thread, about importing Hydrstreams into Canada and using John's logo without consent.

This is a small community. You don't screw people and keep playing the game:cool:

SCT
03-03-2006, 05:58 PM
"The sad truth , there is NO money in making small boats 26ft and up is where it is at"......Jimmy

Jimmy, I think you hit the nail on the head. There is just no money in the 16-21ft OB performance market for a middle to large boat company. Except for Allison (I'm guessing are making most of their money from their bass boat line.), name a manufacturer that is making money on this market?

I'm not making excuses for Jim at H stream but this a fact in the boating industry.

jmg944t
03-03-2006, 06:23 PM
It will be a shame if that venom hull is lost forever. That is a pretty boat. If this guy is hurting now would be a good time for one of you builders to pick it up.. I promise I will buy one in a couple of years.

CUDA
03-03-2006, 06:38 PM
Well three years ago I was talking to another boat builder and I told him that Jim had two investors, his reply was they just lost their money and Jim will be out of business in three years! I asked why do you say that and he said they would have to sell LOTS of boats every year and that is not going to happen -- the market is not there and the overhead is to high. So I kind of stoped my boat project did a refinance on my house and invested in real estate , and I am VERY glad I did Thanks _____;)

Instigator
03-03-2006, 06:48 PM
get what ever is left. Have heard many, many great things about him for years and seems as if he has it togethr enough "Up North" that he won't need to sell a bunch of boats per yr to survive.
Also remember my Canadian buddies not having anything good to say about Jim C.
Ever
Gary

David
03-03-2006, 07:11 PM
Inline 6 - same as last year, I bet my Voo Doo is faster than yours.

(Although yours is way more cool)

350cavi
03-03-2006, 07:47 PM
alright, I've been hearing all this stuff about Inline 6's boat, someone's gotta get me some pics of it, I wanna see what all the hype is about it :D :D :cool:

pyro
03-03-2006, 08:10 PM
Well three years ago I was talking to another boat builder and I told him that Jim had two investors, his reply was they just lost their money and Jim will be out of business in three years! I asked why do you say that and he said they would have to sell LOTS of boats every year and that is not going to happen -- the market is not there and the overhead is to high. So I kind of stoped my boat project did a refinance on my house and invested in real estate , and I am VERY glad I did Thanks _____;)

Michigan, one of the two largest boat-owning states in the country, has not been home to any performance outboard dealers in many years. You cannot buy an Allison, STV, Triad, or Hydrostream "new" anywhere in this state, to my knowledge. Most people around here have never seen one, much less given the chance to own one. There were quite a few Checkmate, Baja and a couple Hydrostream dealers here in the 1980's, but now, an entire generation of potential boat owners is being denied the basic existence of fast boats. I gave new Stream photos to a local dealer and told him that it's an un-tapped market around here, but he blew me off, and I'm guess I'm glad he did. I hate to be wrong.

The outboard market now seems to be limited to Canada, Northern Illinois/Wisconsin, New York and Florida. Hate to say it boys, but it's fading away into history. We're the odd ones out...

Trikki1010
03-03-2006, 09:06 PM
Hate to say it boys, but it's fading away into history. We're the odd ones out...

Maybe YOU'RE fading and odd:eek: ;)

Speak for yourself:p

at100plus
03-03-2006, 10:51 PM
Mercury and the EPA aren't the ones that ordered boats, received them and never paid for them. I would rather deal with Mercury any day over Jim. Mercury may rape you when it comes to prices, but at least if you make a deal with them THEY FOLLOW THROUGH. You don't order motors, pay for them, and then never receive them.

Mercury doesn't sell SEIZED motors either....I know some of you know what I'm referring to.
Just to add fuel to the fire, I bought a Mariner Super Mag for my Virage from Brad Collins (former owner of Mirage Boats), in 2004...

To make a long story short, Brad told me the motor was being stored at his friend Jim Contzen's shop, spoke with Jim, he told me what a peachy clean beauty this motor was and that he just ran it. Told me he didn't know if he could make time to do a compression test for me, and he was very slow to ship it lots of excuses etc.....

Brad said it got very little use except Jim used it a couple times to test a boat. Brad assured me it only had 30 or so hours on it.

When I finally received it, shipped from Jim's shop in a crate, first thing I did was put a leakdown on it. To my shock and awe, one of the cyls. was detonated. It was a nice clean DETONATED engine. I wasn't sure if it was Brad or Jim trying to pull the ole wool over my eyes.

I put it back in the box and sent it back after a number of heated conversations with Brad, and demanded of a full refund. Brad did come through in the end refunding my costs and shipping too, so I would say it's very fair to say Jim blew that motor unbeknownst to Brad. Jim knew he was sending me an anchor with hopes that I would try to run it before compression testing it. Then he could blame me. Thank god I documented everything and testing that thing IMMEDIATELY. I was on the phone with Brad before there was even time to rig it and run it, so he knew I didn't do it.

That was the first of two boat builders I've dealt with thinking I should be able to trust a known boat builder. I won't mention any other names, TODD SCUMBAG LOWLIFE LAMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Needless to say, I'll never ever buy anything from a boat builder again!

I

at100plus
03-03-2006, 11:18 PM
Here it is in Jims dusty shop.

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/2421/shop2ms.jpg (http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/%5BURL=http://imageshack.us%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img464.imageshack.us/img464/2421/shop2ms.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D)

at100plus
03-03-2006, 11:25 PM
Coming out of the crate onto the transom.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9307/crate0qg.jpg
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9307/crate0qg.jpg)

at100plus
03-03-2006, 11:27 PM
Called Brad told him the leakdown and asked him if he want's me to pull the head to confirm. This is what I found.http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/4563/what8er.jpg

at100plus
03-03-2006, 11:29 PM
Closeup

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/3137/scored5cd.jpg

Liqui-Fly
03-03-2006, 11:50 PM
It's funny that certain things in life are always true:

"What comes around goes around"

and

"It all comes out in the wash"

It's kind of fun watching it all unfold, especially when it's acrhived.

Inline Six
03-04-2006, 01:22 AM
Just to add fuel to the fire, I bought a Mariner Super Mag for my Virage from Brad Collins (former owner of Mirage Boats), in 2004...

To make a long story short, Brad told me the motor was being stored at his friend Jim Contzen's shop, spoke with Jim, he told me what a peachy clean beauty this motor was and that he just ran it. Told me he didn't know if he could make time to do a compression test for me, and he was very slow to ship it lots of excuses etc.....

Brad said it got very little use except Jim used it a couple times to test a boat. Brad assured me it only had 30 or so hours on it.

When I finally received it, shipped from Jim's shop in a crate, first thing I did was put a leakdown on it. To my shock and awe, one of the cyls. was detonated. It was a nice clean DETONATED engine. I wasn't sure if it was Brad or Jim trying to pull the ole wool over my eyes.

I put it back in the box and sent it back after a number of heated conversations with Brad, and demanded of a full refund. Brad did come through in the end refunding my costs and shipping too, so I would say it's very fair to say Jim blew that motor unbeknownst to Brad. Jim knew he was sending me an anchor with hopes that I would try to run it before compression testing it. Then he could blame me. Thank god I documented everything and testing that thing IMMEDIATELY. I was on the phone with Brad before there was even time to rig it and run it, so he knew I didn't do it.

That was the first of two boat builders I've dealt with thinking I should be able to trust a known boat builder. I won't mention any other names, TODD SCUMBAG LOWLIFE LAMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Needless to say, I'll never ever buy anything from a boat builder again!

I


Your motor incident was the one I was hinting at when I said he sold seized motors. Thanks for the pictures I appreciate it.

Inline Six
03-04-2006, 01:26 AM
Inline 6 - same as last year, I bet my Voo Doo is faster than yours.

(Although yours is way more cool)


I hope mine is faster I pretty much doubled my horsepower now. I bet that old motor was maybe 65 hp. The gear case was too low of a ratio to turn anything.

Instigator
03-04-2006, 05:54 AM
Your motor incident was the one I was hinting at when I said he sold seized motors. Thanks for the pictures I appreciate it.

Had no idea! So much gets swept under the rug around here that I stopped paying attention a while ago.
Hate to see you guys get screwed like this by people we should have been able to trust.

Gary

JW
03-04-2006, 07:39 AM
Jim never responded to our registered invoice.

But sorry it had to go down like this. I hate the fact that the performance OB market is slowly drying up.

And Pyro's post is so true of Michigan. Except, even the Checkmate dealers are drying up! Good luck finding high performance, or even mid performance boats here anymore. :(

With all the generic bow-rider brands of boats with 4.3 I/O's selling as full boat/motor/trailer packages for LESS than the cost of a new 200+ horsepower outboard, it's no wonder the outboard performance boat market is dead in most parts of the country.

In the last 4 years, I've purchased two different brands of 18-19' 'generic' brand bow-rider boats for my wife for around 17 grand. Full package, boat/motor/trailer. One with a 4.3 I/O and alpha, one with a carb 150 Johnson, hydraulic steering, bimini top, trailer with disk brakes, etc. BRAND NEW.

Take that same $17k cash and try to buy a new Merc 250 with controls, how much change do you have left over for the boat and trailer and rigging? Not much.

Maybe I can talk her into letting me sell the current tow-pig, and get an Allison GS or PST before we lose that option too :(

pyro
03-04-2006, 09:54 AM
But the thing is, a lot of these wealthy folks buy inboard ski boats, because they're going to do a lot of towing. The fancy Mastercraft and Malibu V-drives with the wakeboard towers and 1000 watt stereos are easily over $40,000, some over $50K. The people who buy these are the families (with the help of an adrenaline junkie father) that will consider buying something like a Voyager XT with outboard power as an all-purpose family boat.
Jet skis and small mud-sucker boats have taken the place of the economical outboard packages of the 1907's and 1980's.

The people who buy this stuff these days are simply not exposed to the outboard market at all. There's none at the Detroit Boat Show, there's no dealers here, you have to drive 300 miles or pay someone to drive 150 miles to get hends-on help with re-building. Most people who see my boat out here are shocked. They shower me with compliments. They ask how fast it goes. Once upon a time, this boat could have blended right into any weekend lake traffic. Now I'm at a 640 acre lake, and I'm the only 75+ mph outboard here.

The Big Al
03-04-2006, 10:35 AM
They just answered the phone!

Seems they are in Business.

You know this could be a very damaging rumor!

Call 11:00 am

Scream And Fly
03-04-2006, 11:28 AM
Had no idea! So much gets swept under the rug around here that I stopped paying attention a while ago.
Hate to see you guys get screwed like this by people we should have been able to trust.

Gary


Gary, cut the crap man. Nothing is "swept under the rug" here. You may not understand this, but the professional thing to do (especially when potential slander is involved) is to verify the information being posted. Most of what is posted in this thread came in bits and pieces and I did discuss it with some people involved (RBT can verify).

I guess it's easy for you to point fingers since it's not your head in the fryer when the you-know-what hits the fan. Not having a hair-trigger response to every bit of news is something I do not need to justify to anyone.

I'm really getting sick and tired of these little theories on how I run things here. Why the heck do I have to be the lowest common denominator for every friggin' problem around here?

Greg

WATERWINGS
03-04-2006, 11:34 AM
Good thing that I've already got mines:D

Trikki1010
03-04-2006, 11:42 AM
Why the heck do I have to be the lowest common denominator for every friggin' problem around here? Greg

You're not Greg, but it sure as hell sounds like you spend most of your time trying to create controversy. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If you guys only KNEW the time Greg spends TRYING TO STOP THE BS, you wouldn't want to run this site yourselves.....MOST of you wouldn't put up with the BS that comes up every day, but never makes it here. All the while, Greg is still trying to make the content the best it can be:mad:

One Day, someone will push too much, and you'll have to go elsewhere to bitch....:mad:

Anyone who doesn't like it, start up your own site:eek: ;)

scfireman
03-04-2006, 12:06 PM
Amen to that Trikki!!

jimmyj
03-04-2006, 12:16 PM
Well I have been self employed for over 20 years now and I have learned that no mater what happens it is MY problem ,you have to take the good with the bad and just keep on .:rolleyes:

Checkmate-Chris
03-04-2006, 12:22 PM
I hate to say it...

But maybe it's time to adopt the policy that OSO seemingly has. That being, if you want to engage in defamatory communication type threads, it goes into a paid members only forum. That way when the lawyers start ringing there is no ambiguity as to who said what, and where they can be found. It's really easy to sit behind your keyboard taking pot shots at people and businesses, spreading rumors and gossiping all the while you comfortably hide behind an "internet alias". But it's quite a different story to engage in the same behavior when your real name, identity and location are known and signed on such postings. ;)

There's a big difference between sweeping things under the carpet and attempting to limit your exposure to a libel suit.

1BadAction
03-04-2006, 12:25 PM
will someone resize those pics to something less than 1 billion pixles wide. k-thanks.

Mike, Sorry to see you got a motor in that condition. Does bad luck follow you around?

Hot Shot Merc
03-04-2006, 03:31 PM
Maybe Jim just moved his factory to Cali?:confused:

The Big Al
03-04-2006, 03:58 PM
Why the heck do I have to be the lowest common denominator for every friggin' problem around here?

Greg

Your number one!!!! HA HA!

Greg, don't let this get to you.

It's March, weather is warming up.

Were boats now, and soon everyone will!

And then everyone starts busting stuff up!

Rebuilding, prop hunting, setup info needed, new boats to buy!

It's all good!


Al

My boat is hooked up and me and my new Camera are going to get wet!
(well hope the camera does not)

Instigator
03-04-2006, 04:00 PM
Gary, cut the crap man. Nothing is "swept under the rug" here. You may not understand this, but the professional thing to do (especially when potential slander is involved) is to verify the information being posted. Most of what is posted in this thread came in bits and pieces and I did discuss it with some people involved (RBT can verify).

I guess it's easy for you to point fingers since it's not your head in the fryer when the you-know-what hits the fan. Not having a hair-trigger response to every bit of news is something I do not need to justify to anyone.

I'm really getting sick and tired of these little theories on how I run things here. Why the heck do I have to be the lowest common denominator for every friggin' problem around here?

Greg

What ever dude. Remember I know and talk to some people too. Some people/businesses are protected (or ignored depending on issues) and some are not.
I try to not say much of anything on here any more because I'm always just starting trouble. (used to be called saying what other people wouldn't)
I've had no negative eperiences with Jim and only know (think) what I've read from other peoples experiences. Didn't you add to this post that he also owed you??
How long has all this gone on and never brought to light while people continue to give these guys money based on advertising??

I won't say any more but lets consider some inititials (and issues) I know about that may or may not have been addressed.

RR, LPB, HS, E1 etc, etc.

You are, of course correct about everything.

Regards,
Gary

The Big Al
03-04-2006, 04:08 PM
I know in business a seasonal business is normal to not have liquid assests untill the season picks up.

And the boat business, (performance boats) would very much be
a seasonal business!

Just my 2 cents. ( or 5 cents)

Scream And Fly
03-04-2006, 04:12 PM
Gary, this is the last time I'll debate with you on this issue, because it is you that thinks he knows it all. Funny, isn't it? I don't think so.

Exactly what do you know about my situation with Hydrostream? Nothing? That's what I thought.

Obviously, you must be secretly running Scream And Fly when I'm sleeping or something, since you always seem to have the answers. After all, you must be the only person that's 'talking to people', and therefore understand things from my vantage point perfectly. It's also clear to you that businesses and members must be dealing with you in the very same way they deal with me, right?

Gary, I'll tell you what - why don't you write out the rule book on how I should run things here, after all if you were running this board, you would have been able to prevent every_single_issue_that_has_occurred_here. Better yet, do what you always have done in the past - go on other boards and bitch about me and how I run things here.


The bottom line is:

You do not know this situation like you think you do.
You'll argue any point, no matter how lacking you are of real facts.
My patience has finally arrived at its limit. Congratulations. So take your conspiracy theories about how I run things here to another board if it's so bad here.It's always a friggin' issue with you. From counting the ratio of OMC-to-Mercury featured boats to this. I have news for you Gary, you better get to know the real facts before spouting this BS, because it is this that drives people away from the boards, not the actual issues.

Greg

Instigator
03-04-2006, 04:22 PM
Gary, this is the last time I'll debate with you on this issue, because it is you that thinks he knows it all. Funny, isn't it? I don't think so.

Exactly what do you know about my situation with Hydrostream? Nothing? That's what I thought.

Obviously, you must be secretly running Scream And Fly when I'm sleeping or something, since you always seem to have the answers. After all, you must be the only person that's 'talking to people', and therefore understand things from my vantage point perfectly. It's also clear to you that businesses and members must be dealing with you in the very same way they deal with me, right?

Gary, I'll tell you what - why don't you write out the rule book on how I should run things here, after all if you were running this board, you would have been able to prevent every_single_issue_that_has_occurred_here. Better yet, do what you always have done in the past - go on other boards and bitch about me and how I run things here.


The bottom line is:

You do not know this situation like you think you do.
You'll argue any point, no matter how lacking you are of real facts.
My patience has finally arrived at its limit. Congratulations. So take your conspiracy theories about how I run things here to another board if it's so bad here.It's always a friggin' issue with you. From counting the ratio of OMC-to-Mercury featured boats to this. I have news for you Gary, you better get to know the real facts before spouting this BS, because it is this that drives people away from the boards, not the actual issues.

Greg

Neglected to realize its been me running those people off all that time. My apoligies, won't happen again.

Scream And Fly
03-04-2006, 04:28 PM
No Gary, I never said it was you that was running people off the board - I said it's the layer of BS posts that always seem to cover up the real issue being discussed.

It's posts like yours that make me never want to cover any boating events. I come back from an event, and you'll count how many photos of Mercury, OMC, Yamaha, etc., and conclude that it's all part of some master plan we have here. I can never win.

You never call, yet judge my actions purely by what you see on the forums here. Guess what? You're getting about 20% of what's really going on in that case.

Really, I think I should start cataloging my photos by manufacturer, product type, etc.

Unreal. Yeah, I'm annoyed right now. I bust my ass to make things right here and what does it cost you? Zilch!

What do I get for my efforts? These little snipes that question my ethics. Thanks, that always feel great.


Greg

Instigator
03-04-2006, 04:40 PM
No Gary, I never said it was you that was running people off the board - I said it's the layer of BS posts that always seem to cover up the real issue being discussed.

It's posts like yours that make me never want to cover any boating events. I come back from an event, and you'll count how many photos of Mercury, OMC, Yamaha, etc., and conclude that it's all part of some master plan we have here. I can never win.

You never call, yet judge my actions purely by what you see on the forums here. Guess what? You're getting about 20% of what's really going on in that case.

Really, I think I should start cataloging my photos by manufacturer, product type, etc.

Unreal. Yeah, I'm annoyed right now. I bust my ass to make things right here and what does it cost you? Zilch!

What do I get for my efforts? These little snipes that question my ethics. Thanks, that always feel great.


Greg

We won't go into history here Greg and some of the things that have gone on and the freagin number of times I've preached this board to everyone that will listen even when they're the ones bitching!
How many times have I told you and freagin every one that will listen that the Rumble would not have happened if it were'nt for you !!
The Stream, the FrankenRude everything!! Un-believable!
I count pixs? Compare white to black??
Why?
Whats the last positive thing you posted (advertsied) about anything non black??
Go back through your Miami post and look at my my reply to the one picture (that I saw) on a JohnRude.
You rode on a boat powered by twin 60* 200's that are lighter than almost anything out there (especially Johnny) and I asked if those were the motors and you never even respond? These are the motors they are rumored to be tuning to HO's.

As far as starting crap after the show????? I didn't start the "wheres the 400 HP 4 stroke" thread. I did reply but knew better than to post it.

I have told you over and over and over and over and over (how great you and your site are), and defended you over and over and over and over again for YEARS!!

Again, we won't go into history OK?

Lastly and as I've I've told you several times over the phone, if you think every one you talk to on the phone about "issues" is going to tell you what they really think??????
When the waiter asks how your meal is and it really aint perfect, do you tell them the truth? Every time?

Again, was only responding to this thread and what I "know". You were the one that said Jim owed you money. All I know about your situtaion with Jim is what you just freagin posted and thats all I EVER said.

G

Scream And Fly
03-04-2006, 04:51 PM
You rode on a boat powered by twin 60* 200's that are lighter than almost anything out there (especially Johnny) and I asked if those were the motors and you never even respond?

Do you mean this response (yes, I did respond): http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showpost.php?p=839113&postcount=14


Whats the last positive thing you posted (advertsied) about anything non black??

Gary, I report on what I have available to me, not rumors. When BRP gives me material to report on, I do it - just like anyone else. The truth is that Mercury has been releasing a lot more products every year I've been covering Miami.

That's a fact. If you would like the number of my contact at BRP, they will tell you how much I bug them for more product news and clarification on rumors discussed here. You would be surprised.


Gary, this is not personal. I consider you a friend, and I know we had our disagreements, but that's how it goes. I feel strongly about my point of view because it is me that is usually in the driver's seat of the issues - especially if they unfold on this site.


Lastly and as I've I've told you several times over the phone, if you think every one you talk to on the phone about "issues" is going to tell you what they really think??????

They sure do - because like you, others know that they can tell me how they feel. Haven't you been able to do that here and on the phone?

Greg

beer30
03-04-2006, 04:54 PM
We won't go into history here Greg and some of the things that have gone on and the freagin number of times I've preached this board to everyone that will listen even when they're the ones bitching!
How many times have I told you and freagin every one that will listen that the Rumble would not have happened if it were'nt for you !!
The Stream, the FrankenRude everything!! Un-believable!
I count pixs? Compare white to black??
Why?
Whats the last positive thing you posted (advertsied) about anything non black??
Go back through your Miami post and look at my my reply to the one picture (that I saw) on a JohnRude.
You rode on a boat powered by twin 60* 200's that are lighter than almost anything out there (especially Johnny) and I asked if those were the motors and you never even respond? These are the motors they are rumored to be tuning to HO's.

As far as starting crap after the show????? I didn't start the "wheres the 400 HP 4 stroke" thread. I did reply but knew better than to post it.

I have told you over and over and over and over and over (how great you and your site are), and defended you over and over and over and over again for YEARS!!

Again, we won't go into history OK?

Lastly and as I've I've told you several times over the phone, if you think every one you talk to on the phone about "issues" is going to tell you what they really think??????
When the waiter asks how your meal is and it really aint perfect, do you tell them the truth? Every time?

Again, was only responding to this thread and what I "know". You were the one that said Jim owed you money. All I know about your situtaion with Jim is what you just freagin posted and thats all I EVER said.

G
5853 posts!!!!!! But haven't given the web-site a dime for 2 years!!!!!:rolleyes: Chuck.

Instigator
03-04-2006, 05:13 PM
5853 posts!!!!!! But haven't given the web-site a dime for 2 years!!!!!:rolleyes: Chuck.

Greg, my mistake on your responce. I watched that thread for several days and didn't see it.


Chuck , you have no freagin clue of which you speak.

beer30
03-04-2006, 05:29 PM
It looks like to me that the facts speak for themselves. 2004 at the bottom of your posts kind of gives it away!!!!!:rolleyes: Chuck.

Stream 1
03-04-2006, 05:46 PM
As usual something that could be verified by a simple telephone call, turns into a negitive bashing, that leads to other people being bashed for whatever reason. The web and ALL messageboards appear to be just the perfect opening for tabloid electronic press. Like the tabloids not verified just post for effect.

The rumor that really got me, resently came to a head when a friend called my wife from the LA boat show to find out how long I had to live. He apparently ran into someone from a TN boat manufacturer at the show and got discussing that he knew me. This guy tells him he heard I was very sick and in the hospital on my death bed. In trying to work the info backwards, It comes out this guy read I was sick on some messageboard. . . .


Facts:
1) I do have some health issues, they are serious by are not going to kill me tomorrow. They have made me a more absenttee owner and will continue to keep me out of the plant for another 6 months or so.

2) Hydro Stream is not closing, much like the rumor of Wally's closing, I am making a lot of changes. The market for performance outboards does not exist. Some of you know we started working on an I/O that is now done. It hopefully will put some volume into Hydro Stream.

3) The new Ventura I/O is the direction I plan on taking Hydro Stream. It will soon be followed by a V-drive version, followed by a all new barefoot outboard tournament boat that will be awsa approved. Why because companies like Malibu, Mastercraft, and Supra can't build enough and we have the ability to design boats for the watersports market.

4) Will I stop building the performance boats we have, NO. In fact once the ski boats are up and running I hope to have both the time and money to go back and work on some new performance models. But those models will be limited to our success in the watersports market. They are what holds my passion for the marine industry, but they are not a profit center.

5) Are we building boats, YES. We are currently sold out on Voyager, Vegas, and Venom into May. We had the worst Dec and Jan we have every had, but in Feb things went crazy, we now also have orders for the Ventura I/O. I am working on some internal changes to help overcome being an absentee owner, but boats are being built.

6) Greg, after asking for an invoice for over a year I would think you could have called before blasting me on your forum. I think we got your invoice 2 weeks ago, I will call you Monday.

7) As I am no longer a supporting vendor, I have not been posting information here on our developing products. In fact, I rarely visit S&F or monitor what is said about me. I am going to post a few pictures taken today only to show we are in FACT still in business. I will not respond to those who prefer to push their own agenda, anyone who has questions is free to call me or send me an e-mail.

8) What do I think about messageboards? I tried for a long time to be part of some of the messageboards, and identify myself as who I am. I refused to discuss issues that don't belong in public and refused to tell facts I know to be true but would only inflame the situation. I no longer advertise on this or any other messageboard and took my direction to discontinue it from companies like Mercury who believe there is very little positive to be gained from money spent on them. I think they are a form of entertainment and advertising that has driven away much of what they seek.

9) at100. First I did drive Brads boat maybe three time when we were working on some bottom changes. The boat did feel under powered and I put that off to 225 hp on a big 23 foot mvp. It ran the same everytime we ran it. Second, I didn't ask to make a dime from Brad or you for de-rigging his boat, packaging the engine and arranging shipping. Third, I remember talking to you about shipping the engine, but do not remember you asking me to do any mechanical checks, or offering to pay for same. By the way we are in the Marine Business. Fourth, what did I have to benefit from screwing you. Lets see I make nothing on being helpful but get blamed if things are wrong, all for NO money. Makes sense to me??????

10) Greg, feel free to delete this if it is outside the paramiters of good taste.

Pictures that follow:
Ventura I/O working prototype
Ventura I/O working prototype
Ventura 01 production boat
Voyager just out of the mold
Vegas just out of the mold

Let the fun begin!

Stream 1
03-04-2006, 05:47 PM
Boat number 1, the Ventura is a ski/wakeboard/watersports boat that will run mid 70's with a small V-8. This boat will be rigged with a Mercruiser 350 MAG on a Alpha Drive. We are hoping to run high 70's to low 80's. The boat will be available with both a standard high windshield and a low plexi like the Voyager. We are also having a tower designed next week.

Stream 1
03-04-2006, 05:49 PM
These are the two boats completed in lamination this week and moving to rigging. We will be starting a Venom and Ventura in lamination next week. I am excited about the red Vegas, it will be rigged with a 06 225 E-Tec. We are also working with a new E-tec dealer who has Venom's on order. He plans to rig them with the new 200 E-Tec (419 lbs).

Maureen M
03-04-2006, 06:12 PM
Jim -

I hope everything goes well with your health issues. I know things like that can be very difficult to deal with.

It's my understanding that Greg's calls to you went unanswered for months. The registered invoice was mailed on 1/25, and you personally signed for it on 1/30. And we still hadn't heard anything from you until this thread.

I honestly don't understand how Greg posting that you didn't respond to a registered invoice is considered "blasting"?


Maureen

The Big Al
03-04-2006, 06:22 PM
They just answered the phone!

Seems they are in Business.

You know this could be a very damaging rumor!

Call 11:00 am

AU-HUH! AU-HUH!:eek: :eek: :eek:

TOLD YA !!TOLD YA!!!

AU-HUH! AU-HUH!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

The Big Al
03-04-2006, 06:24 PM
Today, 04:08 PM POST BEFORE I WAS IN THE LAKE!

15 GALS AND 80 MILES LATER!

NEW POST!!

Black Magic
03-04-2006, 10:24 PM
For everyone who was man enough to bust someone's ass in this public forum.....

Just how many will step up with an apology???:rolleyes:

If anything, Greg is right about one thing.... there's far too many members who have to throw 2 cents of gas onto every sign of smoke they see.... ( Nothin personal Pyro....we all know fire is your thing :D :D ) ....it must be so they can feel good about themselves in some maniacal way...

I spoke to Jim just over a week ago.... we are considering taking on the HydroStream line in Leesburg..... rest assuredly we will do our own research before dotted lines are signed ( just as we will with Chris Craft in the near future and as we already did with Avalon and Famous Craft and Mercury Marine ). I guess if all of everything I read on S&F was the gospel truth it would be a piece of cake to just flip on the ol internet and presto! I would have the answers to every question life has to offer......:rolleyes:

In the meantime, I think people who post here should think very hard about the impact they can have on the whole picture..... It's not like this segment of the industry is standing on solid ground as it is..... so if your frickin opinions cost us another hi performance builder.... ahhh what the hell.... you don't have any real intention of buying any new boat anyway, could care less what impact your second hand comments have...... and hey it just makes ya feel good to trash someone.....:mad: :mad:

Figure it out people..... if the crap keeps up.... we can ALL throw away the keys.....

That's my two cents.....

Best Regards... Magic :cool:

Slider
03-04-2006, 10:35 PM
For everyone who was man enough to bust someone's ass in this public forum.....

:cool:

I admitted that I was an A$$ on another forum. Does that count?

http://www.byuboyz.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9512&page=5

Black Magic
03-04-2006, 10:40 PM
:D Yeah..... you're allowed to man up on another forum...:D

Come over to Lake Harris tommorrow.... I'm gonna be prop tuning....:cool:

Slider
03-04-2006, 11:09 PM
My name is Mark... I have "foot in mouth" syndrome.

The Big Al
03-04-2006, 11:14 PM
Refer to post 103!!!!!

Can you believe this! Big Al was not on the negative!!!!

I tell you messing with a man's living is a ruthless!

rross
03-05-2006, 09:41 AM
I'm with Black Magic...you guys are unbelievable. Think we need to stick together to see the continued growth of our pass time, instead of kicking people based on hearsay...little growing up required by a few memebers I believe..:mad: Glad to see things are going well at HydroStream Jim!!

Trikki1010
03-05-2006, 10:39 AM
I am not withdrawing anything that I have said.;)

There are still issues that are not resolved or answered....;)

Black Magic
03-05-2006, 11:13 AM
But in my opinion ( and I rechecked the threads to see if I missed something )...... the only ones who should be posting negatives here should be the ones who have had one on one dealings directly with the individual..... beyond that..... keep your comments to yourself.

This much I know to be true..... if I have a bad experience with someone..... I don't need you or anyone else to fight my battles.... I prefer to take a more professional approach to matters. Since I am nowhere near perfect myself....and have made my share of dumb mistakes in life.... I find it far better to not cast stones.... they have a funny way of coming back at you when you least expect it.

This second hand bashing accomplishes NOTHING! It doesn't resolve any problem.... ya think every Merc customer is satisfied???...ya think Merc has stepped to the plate and resolved every problem to the customers satisfaction???.... if so, you are living in a dream world. Grow up! and for once, make an effort to turn a negative into a positive....

If dirty laundry needs to be aired.... it's a fair statement that the ones directly affected should post to protect other members...beyond that it's pure bullcrap ....end of story!

As always....my best regards.... Magic :cool:

JWS
03-05-2006, 12:56 PM
Jim, I hope your health issues are resolved soon. I own A Pipkorn built stream that was purchased new and havent bought a boat a boat from Jim. In spite of that he has been helpful in resolving some issues for me.

If you dont have personal experiences to share that are factual and verifiable you have absolutely no business expressing your opinion in a public forum. Someone needs to sue someones #*# and post the legal proceedings on the board.

HANGING A BODY ON THE FENCE KEEPS THE RIF RAF AWAY !!!!!

Just MY .02 cents

Hydropromax
03-05-2006, 02:24 PM
I knew this thread was a lie when i saw it. If HydroStream did go out of busines my boat would a collectors item. And i've never had a collectors item. ;)

hugetime1
03-05-2006, 05:12 PM
I didn't bother to read every post on this thread but I sent hydrostream a check about 3 weeks ago. I recieved what I payed for and I called the other day with questions about it and jim answered the phone and was quite helpful.

msethsmile
03-05-2006, 05:42 PM
If my post (page 2 or 3) did anything to increase Jim C's or Hydrostreams burden, I apologize for that. The intent was more of a critique of the outboard hi-perf industry as a whole.

rossi
03-05-2006, 09:39 PM
I think this is the most rediculous thread I've ever seen. No one had any actual proof of anything, yet it goes on forever with all the wrong answers. Very few here actually know what is going on as far as whats true and whats not. I've even seen a side of Greg that I didn't think existed. The crap he must deal with I'm sure is unreal...now I know why the IHR doesn't have message boards. We all have a great thing here with S&F and yet it gets treated like the Honda Import forums. The sad thing is I'm sure most of us are over 17.
When it comes to peoples livings and business, I don't think hearsay should be bought to these boards. We all know what we know and it should just be kept that way. Let it be dealt with the people who are involved. This board is way to big and alot of damage can be done, especially if facts are inacurate.
Lets just stick to our passion !!!!

Scream And Fly
03-05-2006, 10:30 PM
What side is that? ;)

And I agree - this thread is way, way out of control.

Greg

boatmanhp
03-06-2006, 09:19 AM
i agree with magic and others,and i agree with JIM that being a vender on this site or others is more damaging than good because of threads like this,now i have known jim for over a year now as a dealer i could not say one thing he has not done for me or my customers,he is doing a great job and he has a great boat.GREAT JOB JIM

allione1
03-06-2006, 10:40 AM
:confused: :confused: Reading this thread makes me sick to my stomach, its hard to believe that we can sit here on our a$$e$ and try to destroy a company we really know nothing about.Most of us on here dont have a company of any kind and have no idea what kind of hell one goes through to keep it running, but we want to trash somone who has tried to contribute good things to this COUNTRY!

The only information I have ever heard on canada stream has always came from the same few canadians that appear to be extreamly jealous of what Jim has done here in the USA.

I do not know how the vendor thing works here on s&f, but I thought somone said you would pay in advance for your privileges, how could anyone get into your pockets if that were so?

JMO.


USA ALL THE WAY:D :D

RBT
03-06-2006, 10:50 AM
allione, give your head a shake. Jealous Canadians...... ya that is it. I could give to *****s he is American. Fact is Jims first boats were Canadian, the ones built before the new models. They were not paid for, hence the problem.
Fact is I like Jims boats, just not his business practices.
You also might want to consider that the Canadian company does A LOT of business with members on this board, and you won't hear a negative thing about them. Yet your own "American" company has quite a few negatives attached.

BTW if you are going to only support "American" products you are going to suffer. There is a world economy now, the fit survive. You might want to side with the winning team... it isn't always American, but often funded by Americans, or Traded on American stock exchanges, just because it is offshore doesn't make it bad..... after all, corporate American often did that on purpose.

RT

Liqui-Fly
03-06-2006, 11:44 AM
Come on RBT it's none of your business. It's not like they stole from you...why should you care? You know there are two sides to every story. Ever consider that you very good friend is lying to you...I mean it's not like he's generous and lets you work in his shop and does things for lots of people. Not to mention they're trying hard...so you know sometimes you have to step on others for success.

Raceman
03-06-2006, 12:14 PM
I do not know how the vendor thing works here on s&f, but I thought somone said you would pay in advance for your privileges, how could anyone get into your pockets if that were so?

This is a general answer to your statement: It does not necessary work that simply, and just like other obligations bills can get VERY FAR BEHIND and when good hearted people try to work through it they can be taken advantage of.

PHISH
03-06-2006, 01:46 PM
We shouldn't judge rapists unless we are the one that got raped:confused:


Great point

Tony Montana
03-06-2006, 03:31 PM
I remeber a post a few months ago about stv closing that also turned out to be false. I could not find it in a search, but anyone rember who started that one? Something smells funny:rolleyes:

Scream And Fly
03-06-2006, 04:35 PM
Now that we all spoke our minds, this is getting locked. It's just not going anywhere constructive anymore.

-- Greg