'RUDE awakening...

[jimmyb]

hopefully this will help set the record straight!

http://www.thenextbite.com/site_images/final1561ComprBro.pdf

[Raceman]

That's interesting material, the part that I could read. I hope somebody computer smarter than me can reformat it so we can read the fine print.

Thanks for posting it.

[BarryStrawn]

Anyone know who the "two unbiased, third-party head-to-head competitions" were run by?:)

[1BadAction]

Anyone know who the "two unbiased, third-party head-to-head competitions" were run by?:)

bass & walleye :)


I like how the rude guys take BRP (mis)infomercial as teh gospel, but merc comes up with something thats not their own test, but quoted from an unbiased source and they doubt it. LOL

[SUPERBASH]

[i]"EVINRUDE. YOU HAVE BEEN OFFICIALLY OWNED !!!"http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/203/bash0zi.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Tony Montana]

bass & walleye :)


I like how the rude guys take BRP (mis)infomercial as teh gospel, but merc comes up with something thats not their own test, but quoted from an unbiased source and they doubt it. LOL

I guess a guy in a pink thong bass fishing does it for some guys:p

[jphii]

That's interesting material, the part that I could read. I hope somebody computer smarter than me can reformat it so we can read the fine print.

Thanks for posting it.

All you have to do is enlarge the .pdf file. On my cp it starts at 37%, and I couldn't see crap. Run it up to 100% and it should be fine.

[1BadAction]

LOL... I've instigated this argument enuff, I think I'll bow out.

[BarryStrawn]

bass & walleye :)


I like how the rude guys take BRP (mis)infomercial as teh gospel, but merc comes up with something thats not their own test, but quoted from an unbiased source and they doubt it. LOL

Well I saw the Bass&Walleye reference but Mercury employees participated in those.:) I guess you can define that as third party. And I have no less or more confidence in this Mercury brochure material than I would in the Bombardier infomercial. Both are just advertising.

[jphii]

LOL... I've instigated this argument enuff, I think I'll bow out.

You feelin ok?:rolleyes:

[Scream And Fly]

Here's the horsepower graph:

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/67/300xspowergraph2ra.jpg

[jimmyb]

Well I saw the Bass&Walleye reference but Mercury employees participated in those.:) I guess you can define that as third party. And I have no less or more confidence in this Mercury brochure material than I would in the Bombardier infomercial. Both are just advertising.

FYI... all the info was from B&WB tests (the 225 shootout and 200 shoot out) and BRP employees participated in the same capacity as the Merc employees :)

[BarryStrawn]

Exactly, I was just curious if tests had been conducted without factory participation. No flames intended.:)

[msm]

That Bass & Walleye info is soooooooooooooo old.:rolleyes:

I'm sensing panic in the Merc camp.:D

[Scream And Fly]

Did you happen to notice the price of the 250 E-Tec? It's more than a 275 Verado or a 300 Drag. Evinrude wins as having the most expensive outboard now. :)

[jimmyb]

panic in the merc camp???

hehe... i think not!!!

merc had record sales in 2005, TWO JD power awards for DFI outboard and stern drives in 2005, and lot's of new product for 2007...

read all about it here:
http://www.boating-industry.com/output.cfm?id=1064755

and more here:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97828&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=809005&

Perhaps Mercury just smells BLOOD in the water... :)

[David]

Despite a sentimental attachment to what was OMC, the B&W results were pretty clear. Except for price. BRP has high list prices, but per B&W the real prices are lower. Sort of like the big 3 with their list prices. No one pays list.

Having said that, Jaco's advertises a better price for a 200XS than I was quoted for a 60 degree 200 Rude at the Detroit boat show on Sunday. And the 200XS has solid mounts and a high performance gearcase.

[DarthVMAX]

All 3 are running neck and neck.....AND THEY KNOW IT!
This other stuff is just advertising fluff and spin plain and simple. We the consumer are sitting pretty good right now with excellent choices and offerings from the 'big' 3. The only guys left out looking in are the HIPO guys with the Allison, STV, Mirage etc. They are limited to two choices of 200 hp concumer small displacement motors (ie. light weight) 2.6L 200 ETEC and the 200xs Merc of course unless they want to go down to a 175 or 150. :(

JD. Power....B&WB....these guys were a joke to the Merc camp when ever Yamaha won JD POWER (how many years in a row?) and whenever a Hammer or Evinrude outshines a Merc. All I read on the different forums is that B&WB is "just playing to the advertisers in the magazine" and the sort or "their numbers are BS!"

Am I wrong?

BTW Congrats the Mercury for winning JD Power:)

[Scream And Fly]

Maybe we should test them. ;)

[msm]

Greg, that would be a HUGE leap forward for Scream & Fly.

But don't get me wrong, this place is pretty good the way it is. :)

[JWTjr.]

exactly...dead-on-the-money.

JWTjr.

[E-tec1]

I like that idea!!!!!!! what should we test???? If the playing field was even( out of box VS out of box it would be fun.) maybe we could incite some playtime from the top secret depts....................

[DarthVMAX]

:confused:








A Scream & Fly test......how about a SOB like a TUFF21 for the test-bed? Get the set-up GURUS's from the White, Gray and Black camp and go for it!

[Scream And Fly]

We're already working on a new test boat. :)

[DarthVMAX]

To get a true test of whats under the cowl you need to ensure the same thing that happened in the 225 shoot-out doesn't happen. The Bullet boat allowed the Sporty to run so much higher (due to the very low intakes and Bullets run at very high propshaft heights) that the other motors couldn't show their stuff in a sense. Remember, the ETEC, Vmax are BASS Boat motors/lower unit designs.....not really a STV type of motor. UNLESS you are going to allow for lower unit mods (LWP nose-cones) then that will set things even as far as that goes. If you use something that the propshafts are ran about the same height, then and only then can we get a true sense of the the muscle under the cowl....and let THAT be the deciding factor.:cool:

[Fish]

To get a true test of whats under the cowl you need to ensure the same thing that happened in the 225 shoot-out doesn't happen. The Bullet boat allowed the Sporty to run so much higher (due to the very low intakes and Bullets run at very high propshaft heights) that the other motors couldn't show their stuff in a sense. Remember, the ETEC, Vmax are BASS Boat motors/lower unit designs.....not really a STV type of motor. UNLESS you are going to allow for lower unit mods (LWP nose-cones) then that will set things even as far as that goes. If you use something that the propshafts are ran about the same height, then and only then can we get a true sense of the the muscle under the cowl....and let THAT be the deciding factor.:cool:

Darth,
I totally understand where you are coming from, but the fact that mercury offers the sporty in a production motor should not caused them to be penalized; yamaha or Bomb could offer similar low water pickups but do not (licensing issues I believe). I believe each has a low water pickup design, they should each use what the factory offers to the consumers. IMHO, the only fair thing is for the motors out of the box to be set up in the best way possible on the test boat by the best people available to do it to maximize each motors performance. Penalizing one, or allowing others to modify theirs so they can be competitive kinda defeats the purpose of comparing production motors head to head. just my $.02.

[David]

I think any shoot out should allow the Yamaha and Rude to have nose cones added. That is what most of us would do if the motors were ours. Some work with prop and engine height optimization should be done with each motor as well.

You can use my Ally for a lightweight 200 shoot out any time, but I guess I have to get in line for that.

[DarthVMAX]

What I was trying to say...LOL Dang straight! Everyone with a HIPO boat that would buy a 225HO ETEC or VMAX would put an aftermarket LWP nose-cone on so the MOTOR can shine. Heck, even some of the Merc camp opt to run a aftermarket LWP as opposed to the stock Sporty.

We all know who makes the best stock HIPO gearcase. NO one and I mean NO ONE will argue. But lets see what the MOTORS are capable of not the gearcase.

[jimmyb]

What I was trying to say...LOL Dang straight! Everyone with a HIPO boat that would buy a 225HO ETEC or VMAX would put an aftermarket LWP nose-cone on so the MOTOR can shine. Heck, even some of the Merc camp opt to run a aftermarket LWP as opposed to the stock Sporty.

We all know who makes the best stock HIPO gearcase. NO one and I mean NO ONE will argue. But lets see what the MOTORS are capable of not the gearcase.

hmmm...i thought the test would be for a COMPLETE motor and package. If you just want to test motors, that is simple, find a GOOD dyno and run them. Whoever has the fattest curve wins... done!!!

The fact of the matter is that people want tests of the COMPLETE package and only merc offers a complete package to the performance boaters... A customer shouldnt have to worry about messing around with a lowwater pickup for a gearcase (that will most likely void the manufacturer warranty).

[Fish]

I would like to see a comparison of "what they could be" too. SInce cases are pretty easy to change out, maybe there could be two tests (provided there are the gearcase participants); one with stock factoery offerings and one with improvements to the yamaha and the etech to put it on an even playing field with the merc gearcase.

I still think a head to head comparison should be out of the box to out of the box with the best set up possible for each motor. However, i think it would also be enlightening from a performance perspective to also do a comparison that does the modifications that any of us would do to an etech or yamaha that their respective factories do not offer. Again, just my opinion.

fish

[DarthVMAX]

You sound a little nervous....LOL

That whole "complete package" and not having to mess with aftermarket stuff is CRAP and you know it. Good grief, look at the supporters of this website! How many of them are geared towards "aftermarket" stuff? I could see your point if you were back on Bass Fishing homepage forum. But on sites such as this and the Allison Owners....how many run EVERYTHING stock?
Not much.....not much at all.

Lets see a poll of how many people run stock gearcases ESPECIALLY the OMC/BRP, Yamaha camp.

I for one run an aftermarket on my Mercury.

[Scream And Fly]

We run a totally stock Sportmaster at 130. When we tested the OpitMax 2.5XS (http://www.screamandfly.com/home/evaluations/mercury_2.5xs/1.htm) on an STV Euro, that engine was perfect the way it is. Goes fast, reliable, and gets amazing fuel ecomomy. I don't think Mercury is nervous about anything. Darth, I think you need to stop measurbating too and experience these engines. We plan to, and will report on it. :)

http://www.screamandfly.com/home/evaluations/alisyn_progear21/images/0006.jpg

http://www.screamandfly.com/home/evaluations/mercury_2.5xs/images/010.jpg

[DarthVMAX]

But I would LOVE to and hope to some time this season. I guess you don't see what I am geting at. B&WB already tests the motors completely stock. We already have those results. A Bass-boat is not the same animal as a HP boat....different boats require different parameters if you going to use a motor DESIGNED for bass boats.

Scream & Fly has an oppritunity to do a more realistic "real world" test of these motors. I am sure I am not the only one that would like to see what a VMAX or HO ETEC could do on a HP boat (not a bass-boat). But You won't get a true reading of the MOTORS potential by running one on a HP boat but still have to run the Lower-Unit burried to keep water pressure. You would only be fooling yourselves if you think that would give an accurate reading of how the MOTOR is performing. If thats the case why run them? Everyone knows you can run a Sporty alot higher than the Yammie or BRP units...Gee what are the results of that gonna be? But hey, if that will make the merc lovers feel beter than go for it:rolleyes:

Y'all sound scared to me...LOL:D

[Scream And Fly]

Testing engines is something we plan on doing more of this year. :)

I do understand your point, and I see what you're saying. But it is indeed the package that makes the engine. Yes, many will modify them, but most will not. The engine represents a package that's engineered to perform as just that - a unit. If you modify any engine in a test, it's just not valid.

That's like testing two cars - a turbo Porsche 911 and a twin turbo Dodge Stealth - and adding a second turbocharger to the 911 to "make it fair."

Testing a modified against a stock engine does not represent what is available to the public as a product. And modifying an engine could make it unsafe and will definitely void its warrantee (which is also a selling point).

Just how I see it...

Greg

[DarthVMAX]

I see I am not going to convince you...LOL (Hey, I tried;) ) Please at least tell me your not going to use a tunnel...please say its an SOB type boat. That would be closer to the type of boat the ETEC HO and VMAX were DESIGNED for.

And your analogy is wrong....its more like testing the cars with different tires as opposed to modding the actual motors. Nothing like going to a drag race with mudders on...LOL:D All I can say don't say I didn't try when that "non Merc" DFI goes flying by because someone decided to put a LWP on her and let her EAT!!!:D ;)

BTW, does a LWP actually void the motor warranty? Seems like I see it alot on motors still under warranty.

[302Sport]

I think that no matter how the tests are conducted and no matter how many tests are done this is going to be argued for years......I also think that comparing the merc high performance motors to the yammis and BRP's is just not good comparison. they are all built to be good at what they do. I dont see too many VMax's on STV's and you dont see too many 2.5XS on skeeters or tritons if you understand what im getting at. It would be like bringing a bone stock F350 diesel and a bone stock F350 V10 to the drag strip the V10 gasser is gonna win..... now put a load on them and its a different story.....i think comparing these different motors is like comparing two different breeds all together

[bigbore]

with the money spent to buy a new outboard people are definitly gonna be looking to keep the warrenty in tact.
now most of you know this but its manditory to keep the water pressure set at the same # on the guage as the motor was at transom level when running a jackplate.
im going through this right now (no l.w.p.u. yet)i was able to run the motor an 1 1/2 from transom level and maintain the same water pressure.
it ended up being an 1 1/4 from where the motor was that had the l.w.p.u.
i saw a 3 m.p.h. gain from raising the motor 1 1/2.theres probably another 2 m.p.h. raising it another 1 1/4.:cool:

[1BadAction]

hell while we are at it just put a coned XR case on the merc, because the motor isnt running to its full potential with the fatass sportmaster, better yet a speedmaster would be even faster...

[Trikki1010]

Jim,

True, the nose cone is good to 80-85 +/-....

Many a time I was in the low teens and Helmut SMOKED by me with his Sportmaster:rolleyes:

I've even lost power at over triple digits, and she even slowed down like it was on rails:cool:

I run a sporty and except for the titus mods, there really isn't much out there to experiment with.....

[jimmyb]

hell while we are at it just put a coned XR case on the merc, ... better yet a speedmaster would be even faster...

exactly my point... as soon as you start bolting on performance stuff, where do you stop?

I do agree that there will probably never be a test sequence that will please everyone or that wont have some debate. And if there was a test that would satisify everyone and no one would question the results... then life would be pretty boring!

[JWTjr.]

Jimmy, you got that right.

JWTjr.

[Tony Montana]

Affirmative action in performance boating, now I have seen everyting.:rolleyes:

[blkmtrfan]

I must be missing something :confused:

What is wrong with testing what the manufactures are selling. The stock outboards that any of us can buy. When a car rag test one car against another they are bone stock, sure there my be an article on what hop ups you can do and perhaps even a "tuner" comparo, but the only compition that tells weather the Chevy is better than the Ford is the "Stock" comparo.

When an OEM manufacture is trying to pit its product against thier competition, it should be the stock stuff that matters. Just my .02

[1BadAction]

What is wrong with testing what the manufactures are selling. The stock outboards that any of us can buy. When a car rag test one car against another they are bone stock,

like dropping half a second in the 1/4 by switching to high performance tires instead of the hard compound all-season touring tires. while your switching for the test, might as well put drag radials on it, better yet full blown slicks! where does it end?

[Markus]

panic in the merc camp???

hehe... i think not!!!

merc had record sales in 2005, TWO JD power awards for DFI outboard and stern drives in 2005, and lot's of new product for 2007...

read all about it here:
http://www.boating-industry.com/output.cfm?id=1064755

and more here:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97828&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=809005&

Perhaps Mercury just smells BLOOD in the water... :)

Well, the investor relations press release says this:

"Our domestic outboard engine business, which continues to face the strongest competition, reported sales up 1 percent to $480 million. Sales of Mercury's domestic parts and services were up 7 percent to $352 million. "

I interpret that as:

"Do to strong competition, US engine sales growth at 1% did not even keep up with inflation. However, we were able to more than compensate for that by jacking up spare parts prices by 7%."

Btw, note that Merc sells parts and services for almost as much as it sells outboards every year...

[Scream And Fly]

LOL, Markus, how would you "interpret" BRP's $21,000 price tag on the 250 E-Tec? Yes, it costs more than a complete Mercury Drag engine did.

-- Greg

[Trikki1010]

Well, the investor relations press release says this:.


Just those words together ought to make ya bend over and grab ur ankles:eek: :eek: ;)

[Checkmate-Chris]

Perhaps to make it fair, 'Rude should be able to use a JSRE powerhead. :D

J/K

It is nice to see Merc setting the record straight though. :)

[David]

I think the 200XS would be faster on my SS2000 (or an STV) than a Rude 2.6L 200, even if the Rude got to use a nosecone. If nothing else, the broader rev range should let the XS accelerate better.

"I think" is not as cool as "I have data". A test would be great.

[hydroholic]

Line em up! Merc opti and E-Crap,excuse me ,I mean E-Tech.Put them on same two boats,same weight,same prop and same setup.Merc wins out of the hole ,mid range and top end hands down!Know two guys both from Alabama,Jeffrey Lloyd,and Steven Thayer.Both have exact same year, length and model Blazer bass boats. Both have same setback and both have experimented with different motor heights.Jeff has 225 E-Tech and Steve has 225 xs.Anyway you run em,close out of the hole and then it's over,the merc hands it it's ass.It's not even close from the time the bow drops untill the gas mashin stops. They even swaped and drove each others,with the same outcome. I was thinkin it might be a decent run.The E-Tech is no competition.I was a bit dissapointed in the E-Tech after hearing all the hype,but thats just what it is, HYPE! It can't hang with the Merc opti.Thats why on their little infomercial the pitted it against the Merc 4 stroke and not the 2 stroke Opti.They were not stupid,Im sure they had already done that test(even though you did not see it) and new the outcome so they opted for the 4 stroke instead.Go to the river with another guy who has a Hydrostream Valero with an E-Tech on the back and swore his new E-Tech was the S H I T . I handed him his ass with my Vector with bone stock 2.4 200 every time we ran.Make any excuse you want,the Merc turns more rpm's,there is a weight difference or anything else you can think of. Fact is Mercury is faster,always has been and for the time being still is. In the performance world speed is what counts and Merc has it.Who cares if you have to re-ring it more or re-whatever it more. When it's running it's hell on the water and aint no damn E-Tech or anything else of the same size gonna catch it! Merc , GIT U SOME!

[DarthVMAX]

I agree with you, the 200xs is the last of the high winding of the 2.5's and would be the hottest ticket for a boat such as your (ours).

Greg, look out in the real world, you won't see anyone selling a 250 ETEC for NEAR that amount.


Fluff and Spin:rolleyes:

BTW, Honestly I could care less how the outboards would place in the S&F motor test, I am just really curious to see what a non Merc would do on some of these tunnel type boats. You can't feasably run one with a non LWP on it though and a test without one.....well you won't see what its capable of period. :rolleyes:

[stokernick]

'holic,sounds reasonable to me.

[bigbore]

Perhaps to make it fair, 'Rude should be able to use a JSRE powerhead. :D

J/K

It is nice to see Merc setting the record straight though. :)
you know we started taliking with testing a stock for stock.
the epa already killed mercs.production of the drags,so whats left?
the opti and the xs.
i would be all about seeing the results of a head to head race,a 225 e-tech vrs.a opti,xs. or verado.
i'll even pilot the e-tech powered rig (got no fear in running as hard as possible)
set it up greg-same boat,same setup on the rigs head for head.
im exited to know the results of that one.:cool:

[Scream And Fly]

Greg, look out in the real world, you won't see anyone selling a 250 ETEC for NEAR that amount.
Fluff and Spin:rolleyes:


I have BRP's retail price list.

[DarthVMAX]

http://www.edsmarinesuperstore.com/evinrude.htm

[DarthVMAX]

Hydrohaulic has already done the test.....no need to do one now.:rolleyes:

[Scream And Fly]

http://www.edsmarinesuperstore.com/evinrude.htm

LOL! Did you look at Ed's pricing on Mercury engines last year? Man, you're a funny guy. :)

Greg

[hydroholic]

Hydrohaulic has already done the test.....no need to do one now.:rolleyes:Most people will probably say thats not a test (mostly E-Tech fans) and It wasn't.Just to guys with the same boats (exactly,even same color) who wanted to race (numerous times). As I said ,with the same outcome every time.Guy who has the E-Tech says he got screwed by believing all the hype.Says it's the first and last Evinrude he will own.Said he paid a lot more for a slower motor. So not really a test but I witnessed it first hand and it's test enough for me. I don't need to see any more. So let em keep talkin SMACK. I know the truth no matter what an infomercial or flier from either one says.

[bigbore]

hell while we are at it just put a coned XR case on the merc, because the motor isnt running to its full potential with the fatass sportmaster, better yet a speedmaster would be even faster...
first of all why are we looking for loopholes already?what happened to stock for stock?anyway use the mercury performance case,
use brp's new lightning case also.

[bigbore]

im serious about piloting the rig,i'll fricken max it out.preferably the e-tech but im always in the mood to run anything.
i'll even run it in the river here in ill. right now theres ice out there but,not to much,just haft to do a little weaving.:D
i aint scared,i got insurence now ;) (boy woulnt the local medical groups be happy to see me again,especially with another accident being the cause)oh well their gettin pain from aflac so its cool.
hell i might as well go get a drink before hand:cool:

[Fish]

first of all why are we looking for loopholes already?what happened to stock for stock?anyway use the mercury performance case,
use brp's new lightning case also.

bigbore, he was kidding. Did you read any of the posts above? the only people looking for loopholes are the yamaha and BRP folks; the merc people as well as the unbiased information seekers just want a stock for stock, that is what 1 bad was saying.


Affirmative action in performance boating, now I have seen everyting.:rolleyes:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!:D :D :D

[Trikki1010]

right now theres ice out there but,not to much,just

We get like that up here in the Northeast;)

It starts with winter withdrawals, and elevates with the site of clear water and the ice moving out:eek:

Next thing ya know, your puttin' in apps with the Post Office;) :D :D

[Markus]

LOL, Markus, how would you "interpret" BRP's $21,000 price tag on the 250 E-Tec? Yes, it costs more than a complete Mercury Drag engine did.

-- Greg

A big part of that is that there is more room for dealer discounting on Evinrudes. No-one pays list.

[E-tec1]

on the 225 e vs the opti was it a 225 ho or a standard????? I have an Idea, lets petition the NMMA to only alow mercury to make outbards and then most of the people here could be happy.I have a friend that used to bass fish, he was never happy with the way his 300 x would accelerate. He went to merc many times to have his ecu reprogrammed. how would anyone know what ecu was used in any test????There is so much more to these tests than you could imagine. Maybe this is a merc only sight anymore.

[Scream And Fly]

A big part of that is that there is more room for dealer discounting on Evinrudes. No-one pays list.

Markus - you win. LOL!

MTS1, I think some of the debate is interesting, but sometimes it gets carried away. Speculative posts are just going to fuel that debate. :)

I also don't think any test will satisfy everyone - especially with brand loyalists. Sort of like the AMD vs. Intel thing. That's human nature though, but as long as we see it for what it is.

Greg

[Paul Nichols]

Greg hit the nail on the head with his last post...brand loyalist. The only people on this site who were at the 225 HP shootout was JWTjr. and myself. I hear and read a lot of crap from people who were not at the 225 shootout or any other boat test for that matter. People hear crap about boat tests from their dealers and they assume it's true. There will always be excuses when a shootout takes place, but that's how it is and that's how it will always be. One of the biggest advantages Mercury has is being able to offer options with their engines such as the Sportmaster, different gear ratios and soild motor mounts. Just becasue the other manufacturers don't offer the options or their options don't perform as well should not make a difference when testing.

Paul

[David]

For sure Merc offers the best out the door performance package. Solid mounts and low water pick ups right from the factory.

What is BRP thinking offering a light weight 200 without those features? Anyone who needs a lighter 200 is looking for speed.

Run the 200 comparo on my boat and I'll buy the winning engine:) It will be the Merc, but I'd let the BRP have a nosecone.

[hydroholic]

on the 225 e vs the opti was it a 225 ho or a standard????? I have an Idea, lets petition the NMMA to only alow mercury to make outbards and then most of the people here could be happy.I have a friend that used to bass fish, he was never happy with the way his 300 x would accelerate. He went to merc many times to have his ecu reprogrammed. how would anyone know what ecu was used in any test????There is so much more to these tests than you could imagine. Maybe this is a merc only sight anymore.As I said someone would make some excuse.It was the ugly ass blue Evinrude 225 H.O. E-Tech with the american flag on the side rated at I think about 5800rpm's and he has a standard gear case ,not coned. The Merc is a 225 Optimax not a 225 pro xs or any thing built by Merc performance.I think it is rated at 5700 rpm's and has a standard gear case,not coned either. Both running regular fishin props,26 pitch,through hub exhaust three blades. Both on same boats that were bought from Northwest Florida marine,motors were bought from different places. I personally watched them make 4 passes ,2 in their own and two in each others.Merc whipped that ass all 4 times.How muchg more specific can you get.Face it ,Merc is faster!

[aerj]

the most expensive etec is a 30" 250.they sell for $16,500.00.




allen

[Action Dave]

O.K. so E-tec vs. Verado is unfair. Optimax w/spotmaster vs. E-tec is unfair. What about the dude w/a 280 efi who thinks he's Billy badass when he dusts my 200 carb OMC? I mean who cares?? The bottom line is mercury builds a true performance outboard right out of the box. Untill BRP and Yamaha get serious about factory performance, none of this really matters. All the infomercial/brochure b.s. is just baised advertising. Besides, how many HIPO guys out there are really running optis or e-tecs on their STVs, Hydrostreams, etc.??:confused: