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  1. #3031
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    Quote Originally Posted by willabee View Post
    Lars, first let me thank you for adding all of those pictures and articles to Hot Singles, perfect additions to the thread!

    Now, let me see if I can stir the pot and create a little conversation on this "good guy/bad guy", OMC vs. Merc subject. I see it as follows:

    In 1971, boat racing was probably more popular than it had ever been. The multi engine rigs were pretty exotic, put on quite a show and attracted fans and participants. The singles were becoming more sophisticated also. Havasu was offering fifty grand in prize money, outboards were starting to dominate the inboards, more than one hundred entries were showing up at a number of events. All appeared to be well, but apparently the folks in Waukegan weren't happy. They said they would stop participating in these events if the format between the factories wasn't changed to single engine only, 100 cubic inch maximum. They liked the 225 type races and demanded that Havasu be limited to single engine entrants only. They said reducing the cost of racing was behind these demands, they were spending too much with the multi engine program.

    Merc agrees and, just like that, the whole landscape changes! Boat builders, racing participants and the fan base weren't considered at all ..... presto, magically a whole new product is put out there and it is pretty much "like it or leave it" for those people.

    So 1972 begins the single engine only era. The first place the teams meet is Morgan City, LA. OMC gets decked and they quit racing for a few months saying they need to go back to the drawing board! No one knew that they had put the rotary on that drawing board. They finish the year with an improved version of their four bangers, even win Havasu, but they have already decided that they are going to change the landscape again in 1973. In February they introduce the RC and that sets off a year full of arguing and manipulating and just making life miserable for everyone connected with racing. Less than a year after they had gotten their way on a racing format "to save money", they are spending millions on a bigger engine that has no place to run!

    Lars (and others) contend that Merc did everything it could to ban that motor. I (and others) contend that OMC did everything it could to have an unfair advantage in all the single engine races. They insisted on singles, they agreed to 100" limits and then they just threw that out the window and said they should be allowed to run this much bigger motor anywhere. They were willing to run it in a class different than what the 100" motors ran, but quite frankly, if they win a race in a "special event" class, the fans watching and the press will know that an OMC won, they won't know about the special class it ran in or it's size advantage. To prove my point that OMC demanded it should be allowed to run in the single engine format for 1973, they insisted that Havasu let it run. Ultimately, the Outboard World Championship, the biggest, best paying boat race on the planet, is cancelled. Everyone lost when that happened, but it didn't happen because Merc wouldn't agree to let it run, it happened because OMC insisted they be allowed to run it.

    This isn't about the RC, this is about who really did what to cause those debates back in the day.
    I find it interesting a 20 something year old kid was privy to all the internal business and political happenings at Merc let alone OMC. Story I read said McCulloch quit Havasu because he had sold most of his lot and couldn't justify the cost any more. Multi engine racing did nothing to improve engine development that the singles couldn't do for less money. So that part of the story is correct if you buy the argument racing was to improve the breed and advertise. If Merc won, it didn't matter if the boat had 1 or 2 engines from the PR perspective.. But to blame the rotary for the demise of boat raceing is nothing more than sour grapes.
    Got to go to work, more later.

  2. #3032
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    Let me wade in here....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotary John View Post
    I find it interesting a 20 something year old kid was privy to all the internal business and political happenings at Merc let alone OMC. Story I read said McCulloch quit Havasu because he had sold most of his lot and couldn't justify the cost any more. Multi engine racing did nothing to improve engine development that the singles couldn't do for less money. So that part of the story is correct if you buy the argument racing was to improve the breed and advertise. If Merc won, it didn't matter if the boat had 1 or 2 engines from the PR perspective.. But to blame the rotary for the demise of boat raceing is nothing more than sour grapes.
    Got to go to work, more later.
    RJ you are partially correct. The Rotary did not kill boat racing. Escalating costs did and the Rotary was part of that. From the time the factories created higher cost specialty OB's...(both Merc and OMC) the cost of power to the consumer increased. Add to that the increased value of imported one-off tunnel boats and a large core of part time racers were eliminated from the sport. The 1965 Hudson River Marathon had about 150 entries, most of whom traveled less than 300 miles to attend, and all of whom ran production pleasure hulls. By 1970 , not only did the boats and motors cost more, but there were now new "development" motors that no one could purchase or compete with as an independent. This got so bad that even the so called factory drivers had a pecking order of power plants and politics ran rampant at that level (mind you I am not complaining as I got way more than my share...but pthers didn't do so well)....By the time things began to even out (FONDA, IOGP, etc) all of the indpendent development and back yard R&D had been taken out of the sport and the hulls and engines were so advanced that only minor sponson tweaks and prop work separated the racers.....Gone were the production showroom classes, and well set up fishing motors. Gone also were the point to point marathons and the ability to race at non lethal speeds. With death and danger came more and more safety requirements and again more cost (Oxygen, safety cells, 5 point harnesses, specially trained rescue teams). While none of this was bad..and time marches on as we say....all of the "magic" was gone. All of the legendary raw boned characters who made their reputations for being rogues (Pruett, Bakos, Odell,Eis, et al) were driven away in favor of compact, light weight drivers cut from the Jeff Gordon mold.

    So, no, the Rotary didn't kill outboard boat racing....it simply helped...

    T2x
    Last edited by T2x; 04-26-2014 at 02:33 PM.
    20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
    !6 foot Wood Eltro Vee (2X Merc 1500's) (Dust'n the Wind IV)
    15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
    (Single engine boats are lacking something)
    15’ Wooden Switzer Shooting Star...
    16 foot Lee Craft Merc S 3000-(Gold Dust II)
    (The exception proves the rule)
    Obsolete and Proud of it

  3. #3033
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    All this compounded with a generally sinking economy, independents became very far and few. Late 60's early 70's was a boom time for nearly everything ... look at cars at the same time ... the peak of Mustangs & Vettes - later 70's saw a serious decline in performance. Increased cost of fuel put a major hurting on everyone's expendable income, whether directly or by increased costs of all other goods. The price of housing in the US skyrocketed as many women entered the full time workforce and single earner households went from prosperous to just barely getting by paycheck to paycheck.

  4. #3034
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    T2x: I have to agree that the factory wars pretty much excluded the independents. They should have kept and promoted stock classes to keep that part of boat racing alive. Factory involvement and money though, continued long after the rotaries were put away. As you said, it continued to escalate. Other forms of racing however, have continued to be successful with factory dominance; NASCAR. F1, LaManns. Boat racing never caught on in the US; outside of boat racers themselves. The rotaries did create a lot of excitement in the sport and crowds were significantly larger where they ran.

  5. #3035
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    From the 20 something kid .....

    Quote Originally Posted by willabee View Post
    ..... Now, let me see if I can stir the pot and create a little conversation on this "good guy/bad guy", OMC vs. Merc subject.

    ....... This isn't about the RC, this is about who really did what to cause those debates back in the day.
    Jeepers, creepers ..... I tried to make it clear that this isn't about the rotary. I don't give a damn if the RC won a race or a hundred races, what I was trying to point out was that Mercury wasn't the only company trying to bully their way across the playground.

    What I (not a 20 something kid) tried to say was that OMC tried to bully it's way in the racing game back then and that it had some very negative results. I used the example of the single engine only demand and the demand to allow the rotary to run at Havasu because I thought most everyone already knew those things happened and they did have a major impact on the future of OPC racing. I thought it might be new information for Lars and that he might look at the political BS a little differently.....he doesn't, that's fine.

    I know Merc played some dirty pool, but I also know OMC wasn't always wearing a white hat.
    Last edited by willabee; 04-30-2014 at 07:26 AM.

  6. #3036
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    Quote Originally Posted by T2x View Post
    -----.all of the "magic" was gone. All of the legendary raw boned characters who made their reputations for being rogues (Pruett, Bakos, Odell,Eis, et al) were driven away in favor of compact, light weight drivers cut from the Jeff Gordon mold.

    So, no, the Rotary didn't kill outboard boat racing....it simply helped...

    T2x
    No one mentioned---at the end of November, 1969---ECK was GONE. Do you think Mr. Kiekhaefer would agree to any kind of pact with OMC???

  7. #3037
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    Quote Originally Posted by GENE LANHAM View Post
    No one mentioned---at the end of November, 1969---ECK was GONE. Do you think Mr. Kiekhaefer would agree to any kind of pact with OMC???
    only when pigs fly

  8. #3038
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    Quote Originally Posted by GENE LANHAM View Post
    No one mentioned---at the end of November, 1969---ECK was GONE. Do you think Mr. Kiekhaefer would agree to any kind of pact with OMC???
    absolutely not.....and we would have gotten a LOT more free stuff.....

    Seriously though, I don't think that the delopment could have happened much faster as Mr K's engineering minions accounted fpr most of the upgrades anyway....other than that he might have countered the Rotary with a turbine or diesel variant. On the other hand he did take a lot of boat racing's magic with him when he left....kind of like Guy Lombardo took New Years Eve's....
    Last edited by T2x; 04-26-2014 at 02:41 PM.
    20 Foot Switzer Wing 2 X S3000 (Dust'n the Wind II)
    !6 foot Wood Eltro Vee (2X Merc 1500's) (Dust'n the Wind IV)
    15 foot Powercat 15C (2 X Merc 1500) (Dust'n the Wind III)
    (Single engine boats are lacking something)
    15’ Wooden Switzer Shooting Star...
    16 foot Lee Craft Merc S 3000-(Gold Dust II)
    (The exception proves the rule)
    Obsolete and Proud of it

  9. #3039
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    Mr. K .....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Smyth View Post
    only when pigs fly
    Last edited by willabee; 04-26-2014 at 07:52 PM.

  10. #3040
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    Quote Originally Posted by willabee View Post
    I totally agree with you. EC would have stacked 2 inline 6's on top of each other if that's what he thought he could beat OMC with. Seems to me Freddy did something similar except they were side by side.

  11. #3041
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    Speaking from the point of view of a privateer racer who ran production based Sport and Production boats you have got it just about right.
    Quote Originally Posted by T2x View Post
    RJ you are partially correct. The Rotary did not kill boat racing. Escalating costs did and the Rotary was part of that. From the time the factories created higher cost specialty OB's...(both Merc and OMC) the cost of power to the consumer increased. Add to that the increased value of imported one-off tunnel boats and a large core of part time racers were eliminated from the sport. The 1965 Hudson River Marathon had about 150 entries, most of whom traveled less than 300 miles to attend, and all of whom ran production pleasure hulls. By 1970 , not only did the boats and motors cost more, but there were now new "development" motors that no one could purchase or compete with as an independent. This got so bad that even the so called factory drivers had a pecking order of power plants and politics ran rampant at that level (mind you I am not complaining as I got way more than my share...but pthers didn't do so well)....By the time things began to even out (FONDA, IOGP, etc) all of the indpendent development and back yard R&D had been taken out of the sport and the hulls and engines were so advanced that only minor sponson tweaks and prop work separated the racers.....Gone were the production showroom classes, and well set up fishing motors. Gone also were the point to point marathons and the ability to race at non lethal speeds. With death and danger came more and more safety requirements and again more cost (Oxygen, safety cells, 5 point harnesses, specially trained rescue teams). While none of this was bad..and time marches on as we say....all of the "magic" was gone. All of the legendary raw boned characters who made their reputations for being rogues (Pruett, Bakos, Odell,Eis, et al) were driven away in favor of compact, light weight drivers cut from the Jeff Gordon mold.

    So, no, the Rotary didn't kill outboard boat racing....it simply helped...

    T2x

  12. #3042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotary John View Post
    They were so unreliable Jackie that they beat Merc and won Paris on their first outing.
    But you didn't have any 2 litres (so I have been told)?? Just how many two liters did you enter, bet your sweet bippy it wasn't just the one Fonda started either 79 or 80, I forget which, we had 2.4 and 2 liter motors available Johno, but 2.4 went into the OZ class------as you know, that's unlimited infinity, didn't take a genius to see that route would not work
    Thats the reason we capped it at 2 liters, nothing would have pleased me more than to see shed loads of Suzi ----Yami ----OMC----Carniti and Tom Cobleys competing in FONDA .
    If you come to the OFF meeting this year, I will give you a copy of the four FONDA news letters, it will give you an idea of what I was trying to achieve .
    Coulda worked------

  13. #3043
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    Jackie, Fonda worked very well, Oh yeah Cees told me he had 2 liter motors , and if I remember correct he did show up once with one.

  14. #3044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulture27 View Post
    Jackie, Fonda worked very well, Oh yeah Cees told me he had 2 liter motors , and if I remember correct he did show up once with one.
    Cees turned up in Munich , wiped the floor with the field in the first heat, putting the Sh- ts up Mercury, but failed to show for the second heat. So the Merc hierarchy breathed again. When that thing ran , it was like sh- t off a Teflon coated shovel, but as I said before to R/J it was unreliable.

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    Two of my Favorite People


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