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09-27-2005, 09:28 PM #1
Any 1968 Camaro vin code guru's here?
I'm trying to get educated on ID tags on a Camaro I'm looking at buying.
It's a '68 RS/SS 396 TH400 ALL origional with 55,000 origional miles in mint condition. And it's in my town!! AND the owner is a friend!! AND he's getting divorced and needs the $$ for his lawyer.
He's 48 yrs old and is a 28 yr mechanic. He bought the car in 1980 and has driven it three times. He said all the numbers match but I want to make sure. If they do, I could have a $30K+ car for much less.
I'll post pictures soon. It's kinda like this except there isn't a stripe that runs down the door.
Ron Pratt
'91 Virage "The LAST Virage" 15" 280
26' Grady White "fish getter"
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09-27-2005, 10:19 PM #2
I'll have to do some research, but the numbers on the car itself won't tell you if it was a big block car. I can't remember if it'll differentiate between an RS, SS, and std Camaro. I'll try to find my book tomorrow.
Membership upgrade options: http://www.screamandfly.com/payments.php
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09-28-2005, 01:04 PM #3
Ron,
Your in luck, 68's have alot of data that you can verify.
Your block stamp pad should have the vin # of the car on it. They started that on Camaros in 68. The vin # is on the dash viewed thru the windshield.
After the vin on the block is a stamped suffix that tells the HP and body style the engine was assembled for, and before the vin is a stamped code that calculates the date.
On the bellhousing flange or side of the block by the starter is a date casting.
It will say something like B128, which would mean Feb 12, 1968. (A is Jan, etc...) This casting date should predate your stamp assembly date by anywhere from 2 weeks to a couple months, it depends on the factorys backlog at the time. Both engine dates should pre date the Trim Tag info on the firewall as the enginees were typically on a rack finished waiting for their car.
The intake and heads all have casting # and date codes like the block to help decifer origin.
The trim tag has alot of info on 68's.
The trans has a stamped code on the pass side of the oil pan showing date, plant and shift, but the code is different than the engine system of numbering.
The differential also has a casting date and a stamp for date and ratio on the top side of the axle tube on the pass side, between the center section and the spring perch. Hard to see, but use a wire brush and mirror.
Look up all these and post what you find, or go to the bookstore and get a Chevy numbers book. Google camaro numbers will prob help too!
Good luck, I hope it checks out because first gen Camaros are wonderful cars.
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09-28-2005, 01:19 PM #4
I've been surffing the web and found camaros.net (a Camaro site like S&F) and camaros.org which is camaro research group (kinda like IHR is to 'Streams). I've found very detailed vin decoding (and locations) info for this car. It even decodes the pulleys and motor mounts for authenticity. Just a TON of info. I need to be sure this is the real deal before we lock in a price. We're at 20-25k now. If it's as nice as he says (and I remember from 7 yrs ago) and all the #'s match, this will be a mid to upper 30k ride. Bad #'s can take it to the 18-23k range. A clone would be in the 15k range.
4 1/2 more hours to wait.
Thanks for the replies. I'll add the brush to my bag of stuff.
These two cars look 99% exactly like the two that are in his garage. Drool!!!Last edited by AlaskaStreamin; 09-28-2005 at 01:27 PM.
Ron Pratt
'91 Virage "The LAST Virage" 15" 280
26' Grady White "fish getter"
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09-28-2005, 02:55 PM #56000 RPM
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It's amazing how much info is now available for the buyer/restorer via books and the internet. Back in the early 80's, my Dad had a 68 Camaro with 30K miles. All original down to what we thought were the original sparkplugs. Even had old double line whitewalls. Many Chicago area restorers used it as a reference regarding proper hardware, etc. to use. That was before all the resources available today. Good luck on your buy. Was the car always in Alaska??? How did cars hold up in that environment?? In the midwest, the early Camaro's didn't do well. Even the dashboards rotted out where they met the windshield.
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09-28-2005, 03:30 PM #6
Camaro
One thing that needs to be checked is the rear diff. I'm 99.99% sure that all SS Camaros came with a factory 12 bolt posi. rear. This could give it away if its a clone, they're hard to find and one with the correct date code is even more difficult. Also I'm pretty sure that disc brakes where standard with the SS's also but I"m not 100% sure. I'm just curious what options the car has. Things like a factory a/c or tic/tach guage or factory 8 track player etc.... could add alot to the value of the car. I had a chance years ago to buy a 68 rs/ss 396 375 hp Camaro CONVERTABLE with factory aluminum heads that was disassembled but complete. I passed on it and have been regretting it ever since....What an a$$ I was!!!!
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09-28-2005, 06:52 PM #7
Here it is: The owner forgot the keys at his shop so we couldn't look in the trunk or start the motor. I got the #'s off the motor, cowl tag, and vin for starters. The owner said we can jack it up this weekend and get the trans and rear axle #'s. He said , You can check all you want, the #'s WILL match. .
Ron Pratt
'91 Virage "The LAST Virage" 15" 280
26' Grady White "fish getter"
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09-28-2005, 06:58 PM #8
It's pouring down rain and blowing 35 mph. It's supposed to stay wet and windy thru Sat so there's not much of a rush to deal. It does have a 12 bolt posi and thick aluminum hub caps which he says are HEAVY!
Ron Pratt
'91 Virage "The LAST Virage" 15" 280
26' Grady White "fish getter"
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09-28-2005, 07:02 PM #9
Hubcap and door panel
Ron Pratt
'91 Virage "The LAST Virage" 15" 280
26' Grady White "fish getter"
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09-28-2005, 07:04 PM #10
The motor is a 396 325 hp. The VIN is: 124378L319124
The engine assembly stamp (code) is T1128MY and the engine VIN is: 18L319124.Last edited by AlaskaStreamin; 09-28-2005 at 07:09 PM.
Ron Pratt
'91 Virage "The LAST Virage" 15" 280
26' Grady White "fish getter"
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09-28-2005, 07:17 PM #11
Cool car, but isn't 30 grand a little rich? http://www.motorcities.com/contents/05FLM483722409.html
Last edited by 10.5' Tunnel; 09-28-2005 at 07:20 PM.
89' Hydrostream Vista 200XP
Delta 3cyl FORCE
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09-28-2005, 07:50 PM #12
I don't know,...it looks like that 68 is at $28k and still has 6 days. This car will be in the super low $20k range or I'll walk. It's nice but not THAT nice. A clone would be more fun to play with and the value would still hold for alot less initial cost.
Ron Pratt
'91 Virage "The LAST Virage" 15" 280
26' Grady White "fish getter"
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09-28-2005, 08:53 PM #13Screaming And Flying!
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Old Cars
If you can buy one in your area it will save you $$2,000-$5,000 +/- so it is a thing to keep in mind.... I passed up a real nice car in my area and have been sick thinking about it.
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09-28-2005, 09:33 PM #14
just a thought
Looking at the pictures makes we curious about a few things. I could be wrong but the are a couple of things that seem a little strange. It is a nice car and its a 68 Super Sport with the Rally Sport option. The R/S option gives you the hideaway headlights and the different tail light setup setup along with the little rear bumperetts and a few other cosmetic things. Its has the delux interior with the full factory guage package which is real nice. But the wheels (hubcaps) don't look like any I've seen on a Super Sport or Rally Sport. Also I think a rear and front spoiler where standard with these options. Also the front stripe was changed in 68 from the just nose stripe in 67 to the one that goes down the doors. BUT!!! When these cars where ordered new some people had them optioned in strange ways. So I guess anything is possible. But the bottom line is you have a factory big block car (if the #'s match) and that is rare in itself. The 396/325 isn't as rare as the 396/350 or 396/375 so that may be something to consider when trying to come up with a price.
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09-28-2005, 09:41 PM #15
maybe this will help
<DL><DT>Items not available from the factory on any 1968 model included: <DD>
- Rear sway bar
- Radius rod/traction bar
- Rear axle disc brakes
- Small bumper guards (as used in 1967 and 1969)
- Fuel return line
- Cowl induction hood
<DT>Items provided by the factory with every 1968 model included: <DD>
- Bucket seats (except bench seat option)
<DT>Items available from the factory on any 1968 model included: <DD>
- Bench seats
- Air conditioning (except Z28 and L78)
<DT>Items not required from the factory for any 1968 model included: <DD>
- Disk brakes/Rally wheels (except Z28)
- Console (not available on SS-350 with M15 3-speed)
- Gauges (not available on SS-350 with M15 3-speed, or 6-cylinder)
- Large bumper guards (except Z28 rear bumper)
</DD></DL>
Click here to go to temporary table (to be improved in the future) showing engine codes for remaining models not currently in Visual ID table.
Notes on directions: Forward/Aft, Right/Left, Inboard/Outboard - as is customary, unless otherwise noted in a given discussion, all directions are referenced to the seated position of the driver, such that forward is towards the front of the car, aft or rear is towards the back of the car, left is to the driver's left, and right to the driver's right. Similarly, inboard is towards the centerline of the car, and outboard is away from the centerline of the car.
<TABLE summary="This table provides some guidance on how to distinguish between different models of high-performance 1968 Camaros." border=1><CAPTION>1968 Camaro Visible Differences<SUP>1</SUP></CAPTION><TBODY><TR><TH></TH><TH align=middle>Z28</TH><TH align=middle>L30/M20</TH><TH align=middle>SS
L48
</TH><TH align=middle>SS
L35
</TH><TH align=middle>SS
L34
</TH><TH align=middle>SS
L78
</TH></TR><TR><TH align=left>Body Style </TH><TD align=middle>coupe only </TD><TD align=middle>coupe,
convertible
</TD><TD align=middle>coupe,
convertible
</TD><TD align=middle>coupe,
convertible
</TD><TD align=middle>coupe,
convertible
</TD><TD align=middle>coupe,
convertible
</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>VIN Style Code </TH><TD align=middle><TT>12437</TT></TD><TD align=middle><TT>12437
or
12467</TT>
</TD><TD align=middle><TT>12437
or
12467</TT>
</TD><TD align=middle><TT>12437
or
12467</TT>
</TD><TD align=middle><TT>12437
or
12467</TT>
</TD><TD align=middle><TT>12437
or
12467</TT>
</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Cowl Tag Codes</TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH></TR><TR><TH align=right>style code </TH><TD align=middle><TT>12i37</TT></TD><TD align=middle><TT>12ib7</TT></TD><TD align=middle><TT>12ib7</TT></TD><TD align=middle><TT>12ib7</TT></TD><TD align=middle><TT>12ib7</TT></TD><TD align=middle><TT>12ib7</TT></TD></TR><TR><TH noWrap align=right>Fisher option code</TH><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Engine Details </TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH></TR><TR><TH align=right>engine type </TH><TD align=middle>302ci/290HP V8</TD><TD align=middle>327ci/275HP V8</TD><TD align=middle>350ci/295HP V8 </TD><TD align=middle>396ci/325HP V8</TD><TD align=middle>396ci/350HP V8</TD><TD align=middle>396ci/375HP V8</TD></TR><TR><TH align=right>engine code:<SUP>2</SUP>
S/T
A/T or L89
</TH><TD align=middle>
<TT>MO</TT>
N/A
</TD><TD align=middle>
<TT>EA
EE</TT>
</TD><TD align=middle>
<TT>MS
MU</TT>
</TD><TD align=middle>
<TT>MW
MY</TT>
</TD><TD align=middle>
<TT>MX
MR</TT>
</TD><TD align=middle>
<TT>MQ
MT (L89)</TT>
</TD></TR><TR><TH align=right>partial VIN</TH><TD align=middle colSpan=5><TT>18Lxxxxxx or 18Nxxxxxx</TT>
where the <TT>x</TT>'s are serial number portion of the VIN
</TD></TR><TR><TH align=right>block casting</TH><TD align=middle><TT>3914678</TT></TD><TD align=middle><TT>3914660
or
3914678</TT>
</TD><TD align=middle><TT>3914660
or
3914678</TT>
</TD><TD align=middle><TT>3916323
or
3935440</TT>
</TD><TD align=middle><TT>3916323
or
3935440</TT>
</TD><TD align=middle><TT>3916323
or
3935440</TT>
</TD></TR><TR><TH align=right>block dates </TH><TD align=left colSpan=5>
- Block casting date must always be before engine assembly date.
- Block casting date usually very close to engine assembly date.
- Engine assembly date must always be before vehicle (not body) assembly date.
- Engine assembly date almost always is before the Fisher Body cowl tag date. In the unusual case it is later, it should be within a week of the body.
- Engine assembly date most often less than 30 days before vehicle build.
- Engine assembly date less often 30-90 days before vehicle build.
- Odd exceptions of older blocks can occur.
</TD></TR><TR><TH align=right>engine mounting</TH><TD align=middle>small-block type</TD><TD align=middle>small-block type</TD><TD align=middle>small-block type</TD><TD align=middle>big-block type</TD><TD align=middle>big-block type</TD><TD align=middle>big-block type</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Carburetor</TH><TD align=middle>Holley</TD><TD align=middle>Quadra-Jet</TD><TD align=middle>Quadra-Jet</TD><TD align=middle>Quadra-Jet</TD><TD align=middle>Quadra-Jet</TD><TD align=middle>Holley</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Radiator<SUP>3</SUP></TH><TD align=middle>21-inch
3-row core
</TD><TD align=middle>21-inch
2-row core
</TD><TD align=middle>21-inch
2-row core
</TD><TD align=middle>23-inch
3-row core
</TD><TD align=middle>23-inch
3-row core
</TD><TD align=middle>23-inch
3-row core
</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Fan Control<SUP>4</SUP> </TH><TD align=middle>clutched </TD><TD align=middle>fixed </TD><TD align=middle>fixed </TD><TD align=middle>fixed </TD><TD align=middle>fixed </TD><TD align=middle>clutched </TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Pulleys<SUP>5</SUP> </TH><TD align=middle>deep </TD><TD align=middle>base </TD><TD align=middle>base </TD><TD align=middle>base </TD><TD align=middle>base </TD><TD align=middle>deep </TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Optional Tachometer<SUP>6</SUP> </TH><TD align=middle>6K/7K </TD><TD align=middle>5K/7K </TD><TD align=middle>5K/7K </TD><TD align=middle>5.5K/7K </TD><TD align=middle>5.5K/7K </TD><TD align=middle>6K/7K </TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Heater Box
Connections<SUP>7</SUP>
</TH><TD align=middle>end of cover</TD><TD align=middle>end of cover</TD><TD align=middle>end of cover</TD><TD align=middle>middle of cover</TD><TD align=middle>middle of cover</TD><TD align=middle>middle of cover</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Optional A/C Box</TH><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD align=middle>small-block type</TD><TD align=middle>small-block type</TD><TD align=middle>big-block type</TD><TD align=middle>big-block type</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Transmissions<SUP>8</SUP>
</TH><TD colSpan=6>(all transmissions below came as floor-shifters except M15, M35, and M40; bold-faced column-shifters could optionally be moved to the floor)</TD></TR><TR><TH align=right>3-speed
4-speed
automatic
</TH><TD align=middle>N/A
M21, M22
N/A
</TD><TD align=middle>N/A
M20S
N/A
</TD><TD align=middle>M15, M13
M20
M35
</TD><TD align=middle>M13
M20
M40
</TD><TD align=middle>M13
M20, M21
M40
</TD><TD align=middle>M13
M21, M22
N/A
</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Transmission Crossmember</TH><TD align=middle>L6/SBC type</TD><TD align=middle>L6/SBC type</TD><TD align=middle>L6/SBC type</TD><TD align=middle>BBC type</TD><TD align=middle>BBC type</TD><TD align=middle>BBC type</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Speedometer Cable
Firewall Penetration
</TH><TD align=middle>right
of steering
column
</TD><TD align=middle>left
of steering
column
</TD><TD align=middle>right (M20) or
left (M15, M13, M35)
of steering
column
</TD><TD align=middle>right (M20) or
left (M13, M40)
of steering
column
</TD><TD align=middle>right (M20, M21) or
left (M13, M40)
of steering
column
</TD><TD align=middle>right (M21, M22) or
left (M13)
of steering
column
</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Cruise Control</TH><TD align=middle>no </TD><TD align=middle>no </TD><TD align=middle>opt with M35 </TD><TD align=middle>opt with M40 </TD><TD align=middle>opt with M40 </TD><TD align=middle>no </TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Rear Axle</TH><TD align=middle>12-bolt</TD><TD align=middle>12-bolt</TD><TD align=middle>12-bolt</TD><TD align=middle>12-bolt</TD><TD align=middle>12-bolt</TD><TD align=middle>12-bolt</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Rear Springs<SUP>9</SUP></TH><TD align=middle>multi-leaf</TD><TD align=middle>multi-leaf</TD><TD align=middle>multi-leaf</TD><TD align=middle>multi-leaf</TD><TD align=middle>multi-leaf</TD><TD align=middle>multi-leaf</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Radius Rod</TH><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD><TD align=middle>N/A</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Front Sway Bar</TH><TD align=middle>11/16 inch </TD><TD align=middle>11/16 inch </TD><TD align=middle>11/16 inch </TD><TD align=middle>11/16 inch </TD><TD align=middle>11/16 inch </TD><TD align=middle>11/16 inch </TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Brakes</TH></TR><TR><TH align=right>front type</TH><TD align=middle>disc only</TD><TD align=middle>drum
or
opt disc
</TD><TD align=middle>drum
or
opt disc
</TD><TD align=middle>drum
or
opt disc
</TD><TD align=middle>drum
or
opt disc
</TD><TD align=middle>drum
or
opt disc
</TD></TR><TR><TH align=right>rear type</TH><TD align=middle>drum</TD><TD align=middle>drum</TD><TD align=middle>drum</TD><TD align=middle>drum</TD><TD align=middle>drum</TD><TD align=middle>drum</TD></TR><TR><TH align=right>rear brake line pressure regulator valve</TH><TD align=middle>yes</TD><TD align=middle>yes</TD><TD align=middle>yes</TD><TD align=middle>yes</TD><TD align=middle>yes</TD><TD align=middle>yes</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Exhaust System</TH><TD align=middle>Dual 2-1/4-inch</TD><TD align=middle>single 2-1/2 inch
or
opt dual 2-inch
</TD><TD align=middle>Dual 2-inch</TD><TD align=middle>Dual 2-1/4-inch</TD><TD align=middle>Dual 2-1/4-inch</TD><TD align=middle>Dual 2-1/4-inch</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Emblems<SUP>10</SUP></TH><TD align=middle>base with
302 or Z/28 emblem
</TD><TD align=middle>327</TD><TD align=middle>SS (350)</TD><TD align=middle>SS (396)</TD><TD align=middle>SS (396)</TD><TD align=middle>SS (396)</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Paint<SUP>11</SUP></TH><TD align=middle>Rally stripe</TD><TD align=middle>base
or
optional stripes
</TD><TD align=middle>D91 (early)
or
D90 (late)
stripe
</TD><TD align=middle>D91 (early)
or
D90 (late)
stripe and
blacked-out tail
</TD><TD align=middle>D91 (early)
or
D90 (late)
stripe and
blacked-out tail
</TD><TD align=middle>D91 (early)
or
D90 (late)
stripe and
blacked-out tail
</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Hood</TH><TD align=middle>flat</TD><TD align=middle>flat</TD><TD align=middle>SS (finned-type) </TD><TD align=middle>SS (venturi-type) </TD><TD align=middle>SS (venturi-type) </TD><TD align=middle>SS (venturi-type) </TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Hood Insulation</TH><TD align=middle>optional (Z87)</TD><TD align=middle>optional (Z87)</TD><TD align=middle>yes</TD><TD align=middle>yes</TD><TD align=middle>yes</TD><TD align=middle>yes</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Wheel Size</TH><TD align=middle>15x6</TD><TD align=middle>14x6</TD><TD align=middle>14x6</TD><TD align=middle>14x6</TD><TD align=middle>14x6</TD><TD align=middle>14x6</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Tire Series<SUP>12</SUP></TH><TD align=middle>E70x15 RL</TD><TD align=middle>7.35x14 BW std
7.35x14 WS opt
F70x14 RL opt
</TD><TD align=middle>F70x14 RL std
7.35x14 WS opt
</TD><TD align=middle>F70x14 RL std
7.35x14 WS opt
</TD><TD align=middle>F70x14 RL std
7.35x14 WS opt
</TD><TD align=middle>F70x14 RL std
7.35x14 WS opt
</TD></TR><TR><TH align=left>Wheels/Covers</TH></TR><TR><TH align=right>base hubcaps
full wheel covers
rally wheels
</TH><TD align=middle>N/A
N/A
included
</TD><TD align=middle>std
opt
opt
</TD><TD align=middle>std
opt
opt
</TD><TD align=middle>std
opt
opt
</TD><TD align=middle>std
opt
opt
</TD><TD align=middle>std
opt
opt
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Footnotes:
- Doesn't cover non-factory, dealer-modified, or special-build cars like Yenko, Baldwin-Motion, Dana, Nickey, etc.
- "S/T" is standard transmission. "A/T" is automatic transmission.
- HD and A/C radiators were all 23-inch, 3-row core models, except for SS-396 and Z28, which had no HD radiator.
- Temperature controlled fans would be present for A/C car, in place of fixed fans. Temperature controlled fan was available as RPO K02.
- Solid lifter cars have deep groove pulleys to retain the accessory belts at high rpms.
- Some variation in tachometer red-line versus engine have been observed, perhaps due to factory shortages. For example, some L35s have been seen with 5k red-lines, and some L48s have been seen with 5.5k red-lines. The values shown are the norm, but, by themselves, are not reliable indicators of a model.
- When heater delete credit was not applied.
- A very few late 1968 model SS-350s and L30s received early 1969 THM350s as part of the 1969 production shakedown program for this new transmission.
- Generally, Z28's used 4 leaf springs and the other multi-leaf spring applications used 5 leaf springs. However, contrary to popular belief, the use of 4-leaf springs only on 68-69 Z28 and 5-leaf springs only on SS, L30/M20, and COPO car, is not a given. Spring sizing was assigned as a function of weight and option - and this was especially fine-tuned in 1969. Z28s with five-leaf springs and SS, L30/M20, COPO cars with 4-leaf springs are possible according to factory documentation and they have been observed (Z28, SS, L30/M20) on original cars. We have not yet observed a COPO car with 4-leaf springs, but believe it to be a possible outcome, depending on ordering options.
- Early Z28 emblem was a 302 engine size emblem. Later changed to a "Z/28" emblem.
- In early models the D91 "Bumble-Bee" stripe was standard on SS and available on any other non-Z28 model. In Jan '68 the D90 stripe became available and replaced the D91 stripe as standard on SS. 396 had tailpan blackout except certain colors.
- Tire size noted on glovebox (inside glovebox door) sticker.
<TABLE cellPadding=3 bgColor=silver border=5><CAPTION>1968 Camaro L6 and 327 Engine Codes</CAPTION><TBODY><TR align=left><TD>
PowerGlide 3- or 4-speed A/C no-A/C A/C no-A/C ------ ------ ------ ------230ci/140HP base L6 BF BF BD BA250ci/155HP L22 L6 CR CQ CN CM327ci/210HP base V8 ME ME MA MA327ci/275HP L30 V8 EE EE EA EA
</PRE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></P><!-- trailerx.html --><!-- --><!-- XHTML version of trailer --><!-- for CSS pages --><!-- --><!-- 22-Apr-2000 REF -->