E-TEC beats out Verado?

[Massbasser]

I've read in B&WB magazines before that those L&S propshaft field dyno's aren't always accurate and results can vary greatly depending on set up and conditions. Is this the type of dyno you were using? What is the accuracy of this machine? Suspect...

[blkmtrfan]

Regardless of the accuracy of the numbers reached on the dyno (maybe they were low) I find it very interesting that the 300x and 300HPDI were so close to the same number assuming they were tested on the same dyno, there realative difference in results would show womething much different than what HERB saw by trying both a 300x and 300 HPDI on the same boat (Intimidator 21) In fact HERB got a merc 250 efi to run beter than the Yammi

[us1ss]

The Dyno readings used are good and match everything I know of for the HPDI. Maybe that particular 300x just wasn't up to par? Or maybe Herb had a HPDI that wasn't up to par?

[DarthVMAX]

motors not been completely out of "break-in" mode perhaps?

[us1ss]

I think that is what the Mercury boys thought or at least hoped. That would make sense but who knows?

[blkmtrfan]

motors not been completely out of "break-in" mode perhaps?

Interesting question, but JTJr said they got it up into the operating range

[sosmerc]

Straight from Mercury's High Performance Brochure:
"Every engine is tested on a dynomometer before it leaves the factory. Vital signs recorded include horsepower, throughout the RPM range, fuel consumption and peak power".

Wouldn't it be nice to receive a factory sheet on your engine when you uncrate it??!!

(not sure I want them running "my" engine at wide open throttle before I've had a chance to break it in properly)

[msm]

npartin, the gallons per hour = 10% of horsepower at wide-open throttle, stated in JWTjr's post, only applies to carbureted and EFI 2-strokes. Typically, 4-strokes and DFI 2-strokes are closer to 9%. Its only a rule-of-thumb though, so don't use it to go splittin' hairs.

[150aintenuff]

did i ever say that the 10% rule was for something other than carb two strokes... i dont think i did, i was repeating JWTJr's words on 10% rule... In another post on the discussion i posted SEVERAL examples of DFI and 4stk engines around 8% and a 300X that was around 8.6%, none of the newer motors use 10% most barily if at all over 9%

also most production engines are ran at least for a while to test and shake down the assembly so that Lemons can be caught in the production process. Also even though breakin periods are still recomended and should be followed I was taught on the school of thought that if an engine wont run the way it is going to be ran everytime its ran it isnt going to last long.. I wont clame to have the fasted boat here, as a matter of fact i am willing to bet that both of my boats speeds adderd to gether wont even come close to MOST of the hulls owned by the people here but driving an engine like it is normally used it will break in to that type of use and run its best in that aplication.

I have engines that are over 15yrs old , run better than they did out of the box(AFTER BREAKIN) and show no signs of giving up now, also i have one engine that is nearly 46 years old and it runs as strong as new as well. as long as you keep them in tune treat them right and maintain them to run good MOST of them do.

[JWTjr.]

Npartin, the 10% is a guideline, not a hard and fast rule. You are correct to note that many of the newer engines burn a bit less than 10% of their rated power as compared to traditional carbureted or EFI two-strokes which usually burn right around 10%.

In the 300 shootout dyno pulls, both engines were out of break-in mode. We know this for sure because we initially hith the break-in limiter with the Merc, and had to take it back to the lake for an additional hour of run time. It would then rev freely to 7000 rpm (where it hit the regular limiter).

The dyno used was indeed a Land & Sea operated by Gordon Montague of Monty Racing. It's an older model L&S but has always given consistent results. It records numbers very close to those that the OEMs see, but of course not on that 300 test! Yamaha seemed quite satisfied with the 275 hp results though. They had no problem with them. Merc on the other hand was quite upset. We recently ran a Merc 250xs on the same dyno and it produced 264 hp, which Merc says is right in line with their results up in Fond Du Lac.

Unlike many other Land & Sea marine products of the past which were questionable at best, their dynos seem to work quite well if you have adequate water supply and have worked with the unit and are familiar with it. It is a very sophisticated unit and I am certain that in the right hands can challenge any high-buck dyno for accuracy and repeatability.

JWTjr.

[JWTjr.]

Interestingly, that Merc we ran came in the box with no gearcase and no evidence of ever having been run, let alone on a dyno.

JWTjr.

[Instigator]

#1. JWTjr states that Merc lists the Verado's weight as 630 lbs but when they weighed it, it was substantially more.
To this I ask, how much???, and to all the 4 stroke fans that have been saying how lite this thing will be for the last 3 years I say

#2. on the up coming 225 shoot out, are you allowing the teams to change props only???
Big improvement if so but why not let them completely dial in the rig if they have the time and personel to do it??
The Bass/Walleye tests are great as is but why not more closely test as we the consumer would test??
I have a P.Boat (I believe) issue around here some where that way back when they took two identical boats (19' Eliminators I think) and allowed the factories to rig a 3.4 Merc against a V-8 Johnny.
Any wheel, and set up etc.
Was an awesome test and the only one I remember seeing and it was probably 20 yrs ago???

Gary

P.S., 630+ lbs

[Capt.Insane-o]

#1. JWTjr states that Merc lists the Verado's weight as 630 lbs but when they weighed it, it was substantially more.
To this I ask, how much???, and to all the 4 stroke fans that have been saying how lite this thing will be for the last 3 years I say

Well let see, 636 pounds PLUS a say 15-20 lb stainless prop, PLUS 8 quarts of oil,PLUS the hydraulic steering set up......So I'd say 700 ish is'nt a stretch. which eliminates me owning one for any boat I'll have. If I have to have a 700lb lump it will be a car engine under a hatch that I don't have to fish around. As far as technology goes it's an awsome piece, for practicality, meh, not for me. Now if it weighed 450 or so pounds............that's another story.

[sosmerc]

I look at the Verado as a total system...and it is surely most appropriate for NEW boats built around the "system". At the present time, that's mostly offshore fishing boats and maybe some "larger" bass boats.
No doubt more appropriate performance versions will be introduced before too long. I'm in the same situation as you, no way could my present boat (LaveyCraft 20ft. Sebring) handle the weight. I may soon try a 3.0 litre on my hull, but you can bet I will try and make it as light as possible. (wish Merc would come out with a 15inch setup for these 3.0 litres).

[The Big Al]

1) Yellowallison, if you don't like the results printed in B&WB, then don't read it....

Yea i did ... many many folks I know did about 2-3 yrs ago!

I can't make you believe the results................. No .. but B&W did provide me with quite a few good yrs of sittin on the K-mode laughs.

But as I have stated on the record and off, many many times, the results are real, and as-recorded, the day of the subject test. No bull, no baloney................ Question? Is B&W owned by John Keerry?? Just curious?


I'm sorry that you ( many many others) don't believe them.

That's your opinion, unlike the test results which are facts................... No when I and othrs got the same equipment that B&W is testing sittin out in the garage and we read about how it does that-this in a B&W test .. and we go no heck it don't! Thaz when B&W makes for sum good K-mode sittin laughs...

As you know, opinions are a lot like a$$hole$---everyone has the... irs, and they all stink......

Wow! seems to me you be really defensive.. Maybe you heard some this same stuff before!!!!!!

I be nice and not mention HotBOAT!!! and how long yu told people to send their stuff to ole so so(yu knwo who) when the guy was crook and nuthin but a parts swapper!

Have a nice day!

I YeallarAllsion approve of this message!

No YELLOWALLISON! we all are calling you the A--hole!

Just like the crapp you started on the Allison site!

I guess when they have a shootout with the Allison boat and it's on top, You will be the B&WB rep!

Bet ya change hats to what team is winning that week!