E-TEC beats out Verado?

**Markus** · 10-13-2004, 02:03 PM

Ghind, that is precisely my point.

I have discussed it on these forums with JWTjr, but he thinks the current policy of only using props sold by the company is the correct one. I tend to disagree...

**INXS** · 10-14-2004, 02:41 AM

Someone, I believe, said on the Checkmate site that they were able to test allot of props on their Starflite and that the chopper was the fastest, though it didn't handle as well as others. I called Merc and asked if the chopper would be a good choice for my Starflite and they said the trophy would be the first choice followed by the tempest. I just wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that I mentioned that i also was interested in getting the prop blueprinted? I believe the chopper blades come allready thinned???

**1BadAction** · 10-14-2004, 02:48 AM

i have always had EXCELLENT results with full blade choppers on heavy bass boats. My 17' logans run basser ran 72mph with a 26 chopper and a 79 2.0 150. AND the holeshot was quicker than a 25 laser... the through hubs on that particular setup always seemed slow out of the hole, but to make them bite right the motor had to be 3" lower than with the chopper. chopper pulled 12 psi at WFO and was about 2" below pad with no nosecone

**INXS** · 10-14-2004, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by 1BadStream
i have always had EXCELLENT results with full blade choppers on heavy bass boats. My 17' logans run basser ran 72mph with a 26 chopper and a 79 2.0 150. AND the holeshot was quicker than a 25 laser... the through hubs on that particular setup always seemed slow out of the hole, but to make them bite right the motor had to be 3" lower than with the chopper. chopper pulled 12 psi at WFO and was about 2" below pad with no nosecone

I found the post: http://checkmate-boats.com/eve/ubb.x...61&m=713108887

Read what Heavy Duty posted. I Also heard some people on Bass Boat Central say they find them to work the best!

**skip merck** · 10-19-2004, 10:11 AM

Back to the E-tec test in Bass and Walleye something doesnt add up. 5600 rpm with a 26 Raker and a 1.85 gear ratio = 73.7 mph? Thats like 1% slip, not possible. It must have turned more rpm than that. What they list at 5500 rpm seems about right though 67.9 mph. Really the E-tec's numbers (speed and fuel) look just like a direct inj 2 stroke eng should, nothing really special. All the direct inj engs beat out the Verado. Same thing with the smaller E-tecs the numbers just look average. I think it comes down to which eng is going to have the least problems.

**sosmerc** · 10-19-2004, 10:26 AM

"I think it comes down to which eng is going to have the least problems."

That's a very significant statement and I agree completely. While I have not been particularly impressed with the 4 strokes from the standpoint of speed and performance, I rarely hear about any problems and my customers that have 4 strokes really like them.

I will be watching with great interest the progress of Verado.
But in the meantime, I hope Merc continues to incorporate more Optimax models into the line.

**JWTjr.** · 10-19-2004, 11:22 AM

To answer:

1) In B&WB tests, prop choice is not mine. The manufacturers choose the propeller they wish to run in the final test. I can make recommendations, but in the end it's the manufacturers' choice. It is their engine, their boat, I simply record the numbers and drive the boat. If the manufacturer chooses to run a big-blade Chopper because they feel it runs best then that's what they run.

1Badstream, we're running a 225 Shoot-Out in November on Bullet boats. I'll be sure to advise all three engine builders, as well as the hull manufacturer, that they should all run Choppers because you--an expert who has spent a lot of time and money unsuccessfully trying to make a HydroStream run--say so.

2) In our engine shootouts, we have the engine manufacturers stick to a propeller of their own manufacture because it shows what the entire package can do, not the engine alone. The prop is part of the engine builder's arsenal, and showing the best engine/prop combo available from each builder is part of the test. It also points out who can build propellers as well as engines. Sticking to one prop would not be exactly "equal" either, as gearcase differences can make one prop work better or worse as well.
I would love to have each engine builder run any and every prop they choose as long as it is readily available to the public--but that is not always the case, and there is nver enough time to accomplish that. So we stick to the manufacturer's propellers.

3) As for the "legend in my own mind" comment, I'll take that for what it is--the rantings of a frustrated "performance boater" who's clearly more at home with a keyboard than behind the wheel of a performance boat. 1Bad, good luck with your next project boat. I'm sure it can't go any worse than your last.

JWTjr.

**Markus** · 10-19-2004, 12:24 PM

2) In our engine shootouts, we have the engine manufacturers stick to a propeller of their own manufacture because it shows what the entire package can do, not the engine alone. The prop is part of the engine builder's arsenal, and showing the best engine/prop combo available from each builder is part of the test. It also points out who can build propellers as well as engines. Sticking to one prop would not be exactly "equal" either, as gearcase differences can make one prop work better or worse as well.

John, I understand the logic, but the effect of that is that it is impossible to see what the engine's performance is since you cannot tell what is engine and what is propeller. And I think your readers are primarily interested in engine performance. Swapping propellers is a lot cheaper and easier than swapping engines.

In addition, I think that is an unnecessary constraint. Boaters are not forced to use OEM propellers. As a matter of fact, many do not. And V6 engines are sold without propellers anyway.

Therefore, I think you should use a standard set of common propellers that are used in all engine tests. If a particular gearcase design works poorly with those propellers, it is only fair that it is reflected in the test results, because after all, that is what buyers of that engine will experience.

Further, it is not necessary that engine manufacturers offer customers the ultimate propeller for every hull, since there are a number of small independent propeller manufacturers that already provide ample choice for boaters

In the long run, if the OEMs want to be on equal footing in the shoot-outs, everyone will have to create something equivalent to Mercury's so-called Lab and start competing with the specialist propeller companies. The result of that would be devastating for the small guys like Mazco and Hoss.

**sho305** · 10-19-2004, 12:55 PM

I agree Markus, they should have the best prop if even to show what the difference is. Maybe someone will try to include 1 or 2 alternate props that work well for speed/handling/etc. They can run with the stocker, then do a quicky with the alternate performance prop that the tester or manufacturer can choose. While a speed prop may be faster, maybe it holeshots poorly so you could not ski it; but then some buyers may want that setup. One speed test should not be that hard given todays gps/etc. I still understand the time issue, so I'm not counting on new tests to do that in all fairness. At least then you might know there is a 2mph or a 8mph difference in a stock to speed prop for example.

**1BadAction** · 10-19-2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by JWTjr.
1Badstream, we're running a 225 Shoot-Out in November on Bullet boats. I'll be sure to advise all three engine builders, as well as the hull manufacturer, that they should all run Choppers because you--an expert who has spent a lot of time and money unsuccessfully trying to make a HydroStream run--say so.

unsuccessful? i was faster with a regular EFI 150 horse merc than those 2 boats were. I just said they should TRY choppers.

I think someone just poked some holes in the numbers in your rag "5600 rpm with a 26 Raker and a 1.85 gear ratio = 73.7 mph? Thats like 1% slip, not possible." so is that the case? sounds like a damn efficient hull to have 1% slip.

Glad that a "frustrated performance boater" like me could make your day. Remember the "splash" comment you made before i said a word to you? yeah, have a nice day

**sosmerc** · 10-19-2004, 01:22 PM

Perhaps these tests should also include an independently conducted dyno test on each motor with accompanying rpm/torque graphs so we can get an idea how the engines stack up to each other....removing the variables such as hull differences, prop performance, setup, etc.

**us1ss** · 10-19-2004, 01:36 PM

I think that was done with the 300 test and the faithful damn sure didn't like that either! It's a no win test unless the Merc outshines all rivals!
I heard Mercury was so unhappy with the Verado vs ETEC test that they wanted it done again and the results were even further apart!

**1BadAction** · 10-19-2004, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by JWTjr.
What a great boat. The Ventura was always the best Stream, no other model even came close.

Wasn't cool to splash it, I guess in terms of splashing fast boats Action was way ahead of their time (they copied the Ventura in 1977, I think).

JWTjr.

oh, thats why i busted his balls, for those who didnt know...

**Ray Leach** · 10-19-2004, 02:24 PM

I'm just curious " one bad stream" why would Mercury not use the Chopper if they can use any prop that Mercury manufacters in the B@WB tests? You claim it would yeild the best results but yet the Merc reps choose not to run it.

**1BadAction** · 10-19-2004, 02:39 PM

i didnt claim it WOULD be the best, I just said It would be an excellent one to try. on my bassboats, and guys who run 35 miles to catch fish in a tournament, like the choppers and srx's better than through hubs because of the better performance.

dont get your panties in a twist, its just a website with opinions and dock racing.