E-TEC beats out Verado?

[JWTjr.]

Yellow...

I'm sorry, I forgot...as someone who frequents internet sites and poses as an "expert", and who counts on this...

"No when I and othrs got the same equipment that B&W is testing sittin out in the garage and we read about how it does that-this in a B&W test .. and we go no heck it don't!"

for his baseline in disproving B&WB tests, well---that trumps anything I've got!

Please...



Defensive? Not really...but I, as would anyone, take umbrage to your assumption that we somehow fake our test results. I take a lot of pride in my work at B&WB.

Bring up Hot Boat? Go ahead...I have nothing to hide there. Who were you trying to "mention--not mention"? Gene Treichel? Dean Engler? Does recommending Gene's work somehow discredit me because he took too long on engine jobs for his customers? Again, please...



Go back to your "K-mode"...it's clear you do your best work there.

JWTjr.

[E-tec1]

This is only the beginning guys. The ETEC absolutely rocks..........stay tuned!

[Wolverine]

Both of the local marinas near me have been running the smaller ETEC motors on the pontoons they sell. They claim that the performance is unsurpassed by any of the 4 strokes that they sell, they're quiet and smoke is almost non-existent. They can't keep them in stock. Which is better - 2 or 4 stroke - is a matter of preference and will be debated for some time to come. As far as I'm concerned, 225 hp is 225hp, whether it's produced by a 2 or 4 stroke. They should be directly compared.

[sosmerc]

E N G I N E P E R F O R M A N C E T E S T
210 Outrage: Mercury 175 OptiMax
Model: 210 Outrage
Hull #: BWCE0501G102
Engine: Mercury 175 OptiMax
Horsepower: 175
Gear Ratio: 1.87:1
Prop: 15-1/2 x 17 Mirage
Fuel Capacity: 95 gallons
Notable Options: none
Test Date: July 23, 2001
Weight Summary
Dry Weight: 3,130 lbs
Fuel: 95 gallons
Water: 20 gallons
Test Gear: 0 lbs
Personnel: 370 lbs
Test Weight: 4,251 lbs
Water Conditions: N/A
Weather Conditions: N/A
Notes: 1) Speed determined by GPS, Fuel consumption based on total usage by the engines. MPG computed from MPH & GPH. Range based on 90% of total fuel capacity.
2) The performance data shown above should be considered valid only for the specific boat whose serial number is shown and on the date this test was performed. Many factors may
affect actual performance of this boat or of similar boats. Such factors include, but are not limited to, installation of certain options such as tuna towers and hard tops, vessel loading
and trim, weather and sea conditions, engine condition, propeller condition, and hull bottom condition. Boston Whaler makes no guarantee whatsoever that this performance will be
repeated on this boat at a later date or at any time on a similarly equipped boat.
Testing
Information
Noise
RPM mph knots gph mpg nmpg range (mi) dB(A)
Idle 600 3.3 2.9 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
1000 5.6 4.9 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
1500 6.8 5.9 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
2000 8.2 7.1 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
2500 8.8 7.6 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
2750 9.8 8.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
3000 15.3 13.3 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
3250 23.2 20.1 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
3500 26.6 23.1 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
4000 29.9 26.0 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
4500 34.5 30.0 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
5000 38.3 33.3 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
5500 43.7 37.9 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
WOT 5500 43.7 37.9 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
Acceleration: time to plane 6.0 secs
Idle - 30 mph 7.8 secs
Speed Fuel Consumption
0
10
20
30
40
50
60
0 500 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500
RPM
MPH,GPH
0.00
1.00
2.00
3.00
4.00
5.00
6.00
MPG
mph
gph
mpg
® ® ®
E N G I N E P E R F O R M A N C E T E S T
210 Outrage: Mercury 225 FourStroke
Model: 210 Outrage
Hull #: BWCE1761L102
Engine: Mercury 225 FourStroke
Horsepower: 225
Gear Ratio: 2.00:1
Prop: 14-1/2 x 19 Vengeance
Fuel Capacity: 95 gallons
Notable Options: none
Test Date: June 12, 2002
Weight Summary
Dry Weight: 3,300 lbs
Fuel: 95 gallons
Water: 0 gallons
Test Gear: 0 lbs
Personnel: 370 lbs
Test Weight: 4,254 lbs
Water Conditions: 80ºF
Weather Conditions: 89ºF
Notes: 1) Speed determined by GPS, Fuel consumption based on total usage by the engines. MPG computed from MPH & GPH. Range based on 90% of total fuel capacity.
2) The performance data shown above should be considered valid only for the specific boat whose serial number is shown and on the date this test was performed. Many factors may
affect actual performance of this boat or of similar boats. Such factors include, but are not limited to, installation of certain options such as tuna towers and hard tops, vessel loading
and trim, weather and sea conditions, engine condition, propeller condition, and hull bottom condition. Boston Whaler makes no guarantee whatsoever that this performance will be
repeated on this boat at a later date or at any time on a similarly equipped boat.
Testing
Information
Noise
RPM mph knots gph mpg nmpg range (mi) dB(A)
Idle 600 3.0 2.6 N/A N/A N/A N/A 56
1000 4.4 3.8 N/A N/A N/A N/A 61
1500 6.5 5.6 N/A N/A N/A N/A 66
2000 7.8 6.8 N/A N/A N/A N/A 72
2500 8.7 7.6 N/A N/A N/A N/A 74
2750 10.3 8.9 N/A N/A N/A N/A 79
3000 18.1 15.7 N/A N/A N/A N/A 83
3250 22.2 19.3 N/A N/A N/A N/A 85
3500 26.0 22.6 N/A N/A N/A N/A 86
4000 31.3 27.2 N/A N/A N/A N/A 88
4500 36.9 32.0 N/A N/A N/A N/A 92
5000 40.8 35.4 N/A N/A N/A N/A 93
5500 44.8 38.9 N/A N/A N/A N/A 95
WOT 6000 49.5 43.0 N/A N/A N/A N/A 98
Acceleration: time to plane 5.1 secs
Idle - 30 mph 9.3 secs
Speed Fuel Consumption
0
10
20
30
40
50
60
0 500 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500
RPM
MPH,GPH
0.00
1.00
2.00
3.00
4.00
5.00
6.00
MPG
mph
gph
mpg
® ®
E N G I N E P E R F O R M A N C E T E S T
210 Outrage: Mercury 200 OptiMax
Model: 210 Outrage
Hull #: BWCE0501G102
Engine: Mercury 200 OptiMax
Horsepower: 200
Gear Ratio: 1.75:1
Prop: 15-1/2 x 17 Mirage
Fuel Capacity: 95 gallons
Notable Options: none
Test Date: Sept. 18, 2001
Weight Summary
Dry Weight: 3,200 lbs
Fuel: 71 gallons
Water: 10 gallons
Test Gear: 0 lbs
Personnel: 370 lbs
Test Weight: 4,090 lbs
Water Conditions: 80ºF
Weather Conditions: 85ºF
Notes: 1) Speed determined by GPS, Fuel consumption based on total usage by the engines. MPG computed from MPH & GPH. Range based on 90% of total fuel capacity.
2) The performance data shown above should be considered valid only for the specific boat whose serial number is shown and on the date this test was performed. Many factors may
affect actual performance of this boat or of similar boats. Such factors include, but are not limited to, installation of certain options such as tuna towers and hard tops, vessel loading
and trim, weather and sea conditions, engine condition, propeller condition, and hull bottom condition. Boston Whaler makes no guarantee whatsoever that this performance will be
repeated on this boat at a later date or at any time on a similarly equipped boat.
Testing
Information
Noise
RPM mph knots gph mpg nmpg range (mi) dB(A)
Idle 600 2.8 2.4 0.3 9.33 8.11 798 68
1000 5.0 4.3 0.7 7.14 6.20 611 77
1500 7.2 6.3 1.6 4.50 3.91 385 76
2000 8.3 7.2 3.0 2.77 2.40 237 82
2500 9.4 8.2 5.2 1.81 1.57 155 80
2750 10.4 9.0 6.0 1.73 1.51 148 83
3000 13.5 11.7 6.2 2.18 1.89 186 83
3250 19.0 16.5 6.3 3.02 2.62 258 84
3500 25.4 22.1 7.0 3.63 3.15 310 89
4000 32.0 27.8 9.4 3.40 2.96 291 90
4500 36.1 31.3 12.0 3.01 2.61 257 90
5000 40.1 34.8 15.5 2.59 2.25 221 93
5500 44.6 38.7 19.3 2.31 2.01 198 95
WOT 5700 48.1 41.8 18.6 2.59 2.25 221 95
Acceleration: time to plane 4.4 secs
Idle - 30 mph 6.9 secs
Speed Fuel Consumption
0
10
20
30
40
50
60
0 500 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500
RPM
MPH,GPH
0.00
1.00
2.00
3.00
4.00
5.00
6.00
MPG
mph
gph
mpg
® ® ®
E N G I N E P E R F O R M A N C E T E S T
210 Outrage: Mercury 200 Verado
Model: 210 Outrage
Hull #: BWCE8039D404
Engine: Mercury 200 Verado
Horsepower: 200
Gear Ratio: 1.846:1
Prop: 14-5/8 x 17 Rev 4
Fuel Capacity: 95 gallons
Notable Options: none
Test Date: May 17, 2004
Weight Summary
Dry Weight: 3,400 lbs
Fuel: 34 gallons
Water: 0 gallons
Test Gear: 0 lbs
Personnel: 370 lbs
Test Weight: 3,979 lbs
Water Conditions: 80ºF
Weather Conditions: 82ºF
Notes: 1) Speed determined by GPS, Fuel consumption based on total usage by the engines. MPG computed from MPH & GPH. Range based on 90% of total fuel capacity.
2) The performance data shown above should be considered valid only for the specific boat whose serial number is shown and on the date this test was performed. Many factors may
affect actual performance of this boat or of similar boats. Such factors include, but are not limited to, installation of certain options such as tuna towers and hard tops, vessel loading
and trim, weather and sea conditions, engine condition, propeller condition, and hull bottom condition. Boston Whaler makes no guarantee whatsoever that this performance will be
repeated on this boat at a later date or at any time on a similarly equipped boat.
Testing
Information
Noise
RPM mph knots gph mpg nmpg range (mi) dB(A)
Idle 600 2.5 2.2 0.3 8.33 7.24 713 62
1000 4.8 4.2 0.8 6.00 5.21 513 64
1500 6.7 5.8 1.5 4.47 3.88 382 67
2000 8.0 6.9 2.5 3.20 2.78 274 72
2500 9.3 8.1 4.4 2.11 1.84 181 76
2750 14.2 12.3 5.1 2.78 2.42 238 78
3000 19.5 16.9 4.8 4.06 3.53 347 79
3250 23.0 20.0 5.9 3.90 3.39 333 79
3500 25.9 22.5 6.8 3.81 3.31 326 80
4000 30.3 26.3 8.5 3.56 3.10 305 81
4500 35.4 30.7 10.4 3.40 2.96 291 82
5000 40.0 34.7 14.0 2.86 2.48 244 84
5500 44.6 38.7 17.7 2.52 2.19 215 86
6000 48.0 41.7 21.5 2.23 1.94 191 90
WOT 6100 48.4 42.0 21.6 2.24 1.95 192 91
Acceleration: time to plane 3.3 secs
Idle - 30 mph 8 0 secs
Speed Fuel Consumption
0
10
20
30
40
50
60
0 500 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500
RPM
MPH,GPH
0.00
1.00
2.00
3.00
4.00
5.00
6.00
MPG
mph
gph
mpg
®
E N G I N E P E R F O R M A N C E T E S T
210 Outrage: Engine Comparison Graph
210 Outrage - Engine Comparison Graph
0
10
20
30
40
50
60
0 500 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500
RPM
MPH
Mercury 175 Optimax
Mercury 200 Optimax
Mercury 200 Verado
Mercury 225 4-stroke
®
Notes: 1) Speed determined by GPS, Fuel consumption based on total usage by the engines. MPG computed from MPH & GPH. Range based on 90% of total fuel capacity.
2) The performance data shown above should be considered valid only for the specific boat whose serial number is shown and on the date this test was performed. Many factors may
affect actual performance of this boat or of similar boats. Such factors include, but are not limited to, installation of certain options such as tuna towers and hard tops, vessel loading
and trim, weather and sea conditions, engine condition, propeller condition, and hull bottom condition. Boston Whaler makes no guarantee whatsoever that this performance will be
repeated on this boat at a later date or at any time on a similarly equipped boat.

[sosmerc]

Sorry, I thought this was going to show up as a graph, like it does on the Boston Whaler website. There you can pick a model, and then see how various different "Merc" engines performed on that hull.

I am surprised at how close these engines perform in some cases.

(the Verado is sure a thirsty beast at Wide Open!! )

[MercNuts]

I have not been able to use the computer for a time because I had to go up to Birmingham and have my back done wiht those titanium plates and screws and I cannot sit for long these days but I have kept up with reading here with my granddaughters laptop computer.

All of this magazine comments has got me to where I want to say some things. I red Hotboat for a lot of years and at one time I counted I think 18 out of 20 months strate that the G Force people were mentioned in the outboard technical column. There was only 3 or 4 letters each month and I always thought it was strange that so many people who wrote in always had etiher G Force parts or engine work done by them at least one every month. I also saw that during this entire time that G Force was running a small ad in the back of the book. Some time later that ad quit running and all of those G Force questions and comments disappeared from the techical column. I figured from this group of events that either some of those questions was just made up by the magazine to fill space and give their advertiser a bump or the person doing the writting had some kind of relationship with the G Force people or maybe they gave some preferred treatment to people who wrote with a questoin and had G Force in it. It always seemed odd that they would mention them every month and now it seems odder that with all of the outboard people here that the name almost does not ever come up.

I have also come to the opinion that most magazine test articles are not much more than paid advertising for the sponsors. Modification type parts do always seem to have good results in the magazines that are not the same when somebody gets thme home. That is one thing that is a lot better about this website and some others as well. When a part does not do what it is claimed to do there is quick criticism from a lot of people who have tried it already and know what it will and will not do and there is no preassure from people buying ads. There have been cases right here where someone furnished something that did not help anything and that is what was said about it. I do not think I ever saw that in a magazine.

[sho305]

Thirsty? I wondered. I knew two guys with the same 28' boat with twin BBCs. They ran the same top speed on most days. One had stock Merc 525 blowers and the other cams/heads/headers/intake/etc. The blowers had more mid range punch, and they certainly took more gas on trips they took together...running side by side.

[1BadAction]

if you are trying to get good gas mileage out of a motor, you dont run the thing WFO besides, more power means more air/fuel going into the engine.

[Markus]

Actually, any textbook on combustion engine design will tell you that a smaller, overcharged engine will consume more fuel at wide-open throttle than a bigger engine that is naturally aspirated, so the Verado's fuel consumption at WOT is not surprising.

However, the smaller, overcharged engine will consume less fuel at lower loads.

[1BadAction]

Originally posted by Markus
Actually, any textbook on combustion engine design will tell you that a smaller, overcharged engine will consume more fuel at wide-open throttle than a bigger engine that is naturally aspirated, so the Verado's fuel consumption at WOT is not surprising.

However, the smaller, overcharged engine will consume less fuel at lower loads.

thats what i said... like the honduh s2000 with its 24 mpg highway, where a zo6 gets 28mpg highway, with an engine that is more than 2 times the displacement AND HP.

[Markus]

Going back to the original topic of this thread:

I just wasted some time at one of the bass boards. Someone there had spoken the Merc rep who drove the boat in question. The Merc guy claimed that they were 2 people in the boat, the other was weighing 300+ lbs, that there were some big waves, etc.

I.e. it was not an apples to apples comparison

[Massbasser]

Waves maybe, but they report all their numbers with two in the boat, so that don't mean much.

[1BadAction]

Originally posted by Markus
Going back to the original topic of this thread:

I just wasted some time at one of the bass boards. Someone there had spoken the Merc rep who drove the boat in question. The Merc guy claimed that they were 2 people in the boat, the other was weighing 300+ lbs, that there were some big waves, etc.

I.e. it was not an apples to apples comparison

its not an apples to apples unless its done on the same day, with the same hull, and the same 2 people in the boat...

[Markus]

its not an apples to apples unless its done on the same day, with the same hull, and the same 2 people in the boat...

... and the same prop

[ghind]

It is all well and good to keep most conditions the same eg
water, temperature, boat, crew weight etc but the setup should be optomised for testing.

I know this is a lot harder but we want to know what a motor will really do.

If you are comparing top speed, the rule should be the best available setup including prop. I'd probably say that custom props shouldn't be used as most people might not have easy access to the best prop guys but prop choice can make more difference than the top end differences noted in these tests.

I have read some of these tests and where they make direct comparisons on fuel consumption, plaining revs, speed at revs etc and you can easily see that some of it can be accounted for in prop choice. For example, the 250hp DI two stroke test.

I'd love to see some dyno testing. With fuel consumption figures for each point included.

This may help show how much of the difference is setup and how much is really HP.