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  1. #46
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    Well I hope I am wrong about the spectator interest. I've only been to a handful of Supersport races but the conversations I had with some casual fans in the stands suggests the OPC race engine classes were a lot more interesting to them. Maybe it is as simple as the lack of noise.

  2. #47
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    There is nothing wrong with the SS class as it is. Yes it could probably use a little more noise but that is secondary. We can argue about class rules and which spectators like which class. I have yet to ever meet a SST 45 driver that told me the spectators liked Formula V better. Conversely I have never met a Formula V driver that said the spectators liked SST 60 better, and on and on.
    As I stated many times before what is hurting OPC is a lack of new drivers to replace retiring drivers and a lack of drivers showing at the races.
    I go back to the NORA races, the only paying races in the SE US. The majority of boats that couls have shown up the last few years didn't. So the net result is we have lost or are losing all of the NORA races. Gone, over and out! Barring a miracle there will be 3 less paying races in R5 next year.
    Sorry Jeff but where was the Blackbird team the last few years? No calls, no reasons just not showing, I don't mean to pick on you but it is the same way for a lot of drivers.
    What will change driver participation? Hell if 80% of the drivers in each class showed we would have a hell of a race.
    No excuses, we have met the enemy, and we are he.
    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

    3 X APBA Formula V Nat'l Champion
    APBA Formula V US-1
    It took me 29 years to become an overnight success.

  3. #48
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    to all

    As I stated many times before what is hurting OPC is a lack of new drivers to replace retiring drivers and a lack of drivers showing at the races.
    I couldn't agree more!! I think that SS and all those participating have done more than any other class to recrute new drivers. Countless occations we have told other drivers and non drivers alike to simply take the boat for a spin. We have passed out free equiptment. Jack tried to lease his boats for a rather resonable deal. I myself considered building and leasing. I told a driver that was uncertain of himself in his 120 boat to drive the 2 hrs south here and we will let you drive it untill your arms fall off. Knowing that I was going to be taking a time out I told him just to come down and pick it up and take it to a couple of races. These boats are forgiving and are not prone to blowing over, they can take a bump without damage and the controls feel like a river racer. How much simpler can you get???? We are simply missing the boat somehow on what it takes to get more drivers in to the sport.
    That is why I preach that the venue needs to change.

    as far as my participation goes,,,,, I will be back as soon as my bussiness and finacials are at the next level. And why not pic on one of the FT camp. When there were 8-9 of us there, you didn't notice one of them missing.

    And how about the other classes??? 60, 120, FV, Inflatables, 45, mod u, fomula 150, tri hull , champ,(f1) mini gp, sst 70, sport c. Where were all of these drivers when SS numbers were up? Where is the discussion about the dieing of these classes???

    we need more "new " drivers lets all brain power how to attract them

    New venues,, New future my thoughts

  4. #49
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    Lowering the weights? I have to admit, when I saw the weights for ss I almost fell over. I realize those engines are ehavy, but lowering the weights is a step in the right direction for any class.
    What constitutes a dying class? The numbers across the board are down, except in 120.
    Brian Tabara
    Tabara Racing
    Brian@TabaraRacing.com
    (612) 424-1201

  5. #50
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    We've been known to shut down the pits; for a promotional break. All the drivers and teams talk to spectators about the racing. Usually we can get a few new leads on drivers with some good sales. But we need this on a larger scale... The sport C website has brought alot of sport c drivers into the class, but many of them move up quite quickly after that class. SO how about individual class websites? I realize it makes it a pain for keeping an eye on all these websites, but isn't that good? LOTS of information out there?
    Maybe get more people involved in advertising boats for sale on websites like this. These are just ideas. I know there are alot of potential racers on this website, afterall I think i heard somwhere this is the largest performance boating board on the web?
    Brian
    Brian Tabara
    Tabara Racing
    Brian@TabaraRacing.com
    (612) 424-1201

  6. #51
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    Re: to all

    Originally posted by BLACKBIRD
    And how about the other classes??? 60, 120, FV, Inflatables, 45, mod u, fomula 150, tri hull , champ,(f1) mini gp, sst 70, sport c. Where were all of these drivers when SS numbers were up? Where is the discussion about the dieing of these classes???
    First of all SST-120; Mod-U; Formula-150; and Champ are NOT dieing classes

    Originally posted by BLACKBIRD
    we need more "new " drivers lets all brain power how to attract them

    New venues,, New future my thoughts
    Second; I don’t know how to attract new drivers but I’ll bet ya you won’t get them by making races in Lake Alfred; Eustus; Crescent City; Lakeland and other “middle of nowhere” sites.
    We need some major City races like Miami, Daytona, Tampa/St Pete, Orlando, West Palm, and Jacksonville, that’s where sponsors and crowds are.
    We are hiding from view of potential new drivers and sponsors by making races in those cities.

  7. #52
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    IOGP

    Back in the 80's at the IOGP races the town sponsering the race would get local businesses to come up with $750-$1000 to be used as tow money for the drivers and names would be drawn out of a hat on who they sponsered, you all know that most of our sport hindges around finances. Damn there were racers who did not have a chance in hell finishing high enough to win a good chunk of change but got tow money and they went racing. I really don't think noise makes a race , but good competition does

  8. #53
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    Florida is DEAD for OPC racing unless it is on lakes! The Manatee problem has killed it! There are not many big cities with lakes big enough to accomadate a race with spectators in Florida. If there is a big lake they tend to build houses around it. That leaves the small towns like Ocoee, Eustis, etc...

    SPN, I've never seen more than 2 real mod-U boats at a race this millenium in region 5 until Crescent City this year. Hell my SS boat could have out run a few of them. Mod-U died in the 90's. How many true Mod-U boats are there in the country right now that race regularly. I would wager no more than 5

    A lot of boats can race the under the class rules including F1,F2,SS, and formula 150 but how many are the true definition of Mod-U.

    The Mod-U worlds at Kankakee should be great but how many of those boats will you see at normal events? 120 as a regional class is dead in Florida, no formula 150 in the region, no champ in the region, 60 averages about 4 boats per race in the last 3 years, 45 is not any better in the region on average.

    SPN, we racers are a minority. We actually take our boats and race them and when we lose we try to make them better for the next race.
    The majority want to keep their egos in tact by not facing competition. It is easier to be on the internet and at the bar talking about your fast boat but NEVER proving it. That is what is wrong with racing today. The majority of boat owners are as soft as white bread! That is why you aren't seeing many new racers.

    Supersport should be a feeder class getting inexperienced boaters involved in racing without needing to be a mechanic. Some will never move up but many will. Instead it is constantly compared to the other classes and put down when it is there to build the exact classes that a lot of criticism comes from.

  9. #54
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    Not very many spectators are capable of starting to race in a 120 or champ boat. But a lot could start in a SS boat, they would have a learning curve but they would be competitive in a short time. That is how you get spectators to become racers: you show them a fun, relatively fast, inexpensive to maintain, boat that they can race on the weekends and play with the other 3 weekends of the month. What class can you do that with? SUPERSPORT

    Then you have a SS Pro class with more horsepower to keep a place for the green motors to be and keep the EPA happy by showing that the boat racing world wants to help the problem. " Look at our completely EPA compliant race classes"

    You have to stop doing things the way they have been done because it isn't working. Start thinking outside the box!

  10. #55
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    Last race I attended was Altamonte Springs last October. Supersport was missing. But they seemed to be doing well with 120, 60 and 45 although maybe not quite as many boats as the summer races in previous years. My 6 year old daughter certainly enjoyed it and wants to go again. But that venue is probably lost to development forever.

    Has anyone ever tried to promote a boat race at Barnett Park next to the Orange County fairgrounds? Looks like it could work and I think they used to have water ski tournaments there. Lake Eola east of downtown would be perfect but politically impossible.

  11. #56
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    Barry, I love racing at Altamonte in the Ditch. That was a series race with APR and they do have a decent turnout, but they draw all the series participants. APR only runs 120 and 60 they do invite 45 to a few events. The normal region race is lucky to have all 3 of those classes with a 3 boat minimum!
    APR use to have the Supersport class but didn't want to support the class. Mercury wanted to support the class monitarily in APR but somebody dropped the ball and it wasn't Mercury!

    It is a very frustrating situation from the racers view point and from the few organizers that want what is best for boat racing!

  12. #57
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    Mike,

    You’re nice guy and all, but man…I’m not trying to pick a fight or anything but I have to correct you on some issues.

    Originally posted by Mike Muldrow
    SPN, I've never seen more than 2 real mod-U boats at a race this millenium in region 5 until Crescent City this year..
    Remember Ocoee last year???

    Originally posted by Mike Muldrow
    Hell my SS boat could have out run a few of them.

    What the hell are you taking about???
    I’ll give any SS boat two laps advantage on a five lap race


    Originally posted by Mike Muldrow
    How many true Mod-U boats are there in the country right now that race regularly. I would wager no more than 5
    You’ll see for your self in Kankakee later this year

    Originally posted by Mike Muldrow
    A lot of boats can race the under the class rules including F1,F2,SS, and formula 150 but how many are the true definition of Mod-U.

    F1 is a Mod-U, Champ is not.
    Champ has to run stock 36cc heads; stock intake; stock exhaust; 8600 rev limiter in ECU…etc,
    Anything other than that is a true Mod-U or F1 in Europe
    When you see Champ boat racing in a Mod-U class be sure that those are NOT Champ engines in the back.

    Originally posted by Mike Muldrow

    no champ in the region
    Currently there are 4 active Champ boats in region 5 with at least 1 more to come next year.

    Originally posted by Mike Muldrow
    SPN, we racers are a minority. We actually take our boats and race them and when we lose we try to make them better for the next race.
    The majority want to keep their egos in tact by not facing competition. It is easier to be on the internet and at the bar talking about your fast boat but NEVER proving it. That is what is wrong with racing today. The majority of boat owners are as soft as white bread! That is why you aren't seeing many new racers
    You’re absolutely right about that.




  13. #58
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    We did race at Barnett Park a few years ago. We have raced in many lakes, rivers etc in major cities all over the country. In most of these we are faced with restrictions due to water runoff, drinking water issues, noise abatement and finally the cost of conducting a race in a major metropolitan area.
    We used to race either inboards or OPC boats every month in the Miami Marine Stadium. The changing demographics, political consequences and cost drove us out.

    Look at Augusta, Ga. the locals ran into some very big money issues now it would be almost impossible to put on a race there. In addition very few major cities have facilities that are condusive to racing. APR still races in Pittsburg.

    In order to survive we need a few things. adequate supplies of affordable equipment. More races within a easily traveled radius of the participants. More areas open to us, more participation by existing drivers and finally a lot more people dedicating themselves to the officiating and administrating the sites and races. MORE HELP!

    As far as the EPA I would suggest that everyone go read the Federal Regulations. Boat racing is specifically exempt from EPA regulations as either an individual boat or a class of boats. Just like NASCAR.

    While we are at it let me point out one gripe I have. The disparity of prize money/ tow money at some of the races. For instance at the Nationals this year the 45's are getting $5,000 with a $150 entry fee. Formula V is getting $1500 with a $100 entry fee. The vast majority of the prize money goes to 3 classes, SST 45, SST 120 and Champ. This year they are giving more to Mod U. What does that tell the other classes? How does that foster participation? I'm tired of it!

    Last year I won my class at the Nationals, I received a check for the prize money a few weeks later. $300 !!!
    It cost me and most others about a grand to go to Kankakee, 4 days there and 4 days on the road. And this year they are cutting the tow money to $100, if you qualify. Ridiculous!

    We want to know why drivers don't want to go to the Nationals? or participate in this sport? These are the same problems that have existed for 30 years.
    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

    3 X APBA Formula V Nat'l Champion
    APBA Formula V US-1
    It took me 29 years to become an overnight success.

  14. #59
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    SPN we are all on the same side here. My point is all the OPC classes are all in trouble in Region 5.

    In Eustis a couple of years ago 2 SS boats ran in Mod-U to make the class and neither of them got last.

    You are right about Ocoee I wasn't there but that is the first race in a long time that there was a full class in the Region. I believe the chance for a World Record helped a lot. Mike

  15. #60
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    Jeff,
    I just came back from Champ race in Toledo Ohio, and the race was held in downtown of Toledo. There was every local TV station, every local Radio station covering the event, reporters were fighting for drivers to get an interview, crowds were on both sides of the river, I was sponsored by one local Radio station my brother by another one plus five other drivers by other five stations, we were even approached by local contractor (fan) for a next year sponsorship, that’s what boat racing needs EXPOSURE. Hell, I rolled my boat after only 5 laps so I finished 15th and I still walked away with $1300 from Champ + sponsorship money from radio station.
    My point is get some racing in major City’s and you’ll see fans, you’ll see sponsors; you’ll even see new drivers.
    What we have now is not racing its gathering and hiding from the public eye, and I know it’s hard to put on the race and get all proper licenses, but if we want to race in the future we got to fight.

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