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  1. #121
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    Whewwww ... just got back from the South of France . Thanks daddy Goerge ... Mikey and I had a great time on the French Riviera ...

    Next time we need to invite Uncle BBQ . Cuz I like's me some Ribs ~n~Fries from Sonny's ....

    I just cant like that .. Su-su-fu-flay-la-vuu they tried to feed us over there ...

    Got Okra ....

    Hey ... pass me a napkin and one of them kiddie crayon packs please ....

  2. #122
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    There ya go typing in your sleep again. Youre wake up time is still 45 minutes away

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Whewwww ... just got back from the South of France . Thanks daddy Goerge ... Mikey and I had a great time on the French Riviera ...

    Next time we need to invite Uncle BBQ . Cuz I like's me some Ribs ~n~Fries from Sonny's ....

    I just cant like that .. Su-su-fu-flay-la-vuu they tried to feed us over there ...

    Got Okra ....

    Hey ... pass me a napkin and one of them kiddie crayon packs please ....
    Bud Conner "Heathen" "Defending Our Constitution"

    FOR ALL ENGINE APPLICATIONS
    DRY Film Lubricant for Piston Skirts & Cranks + Thermal Barrier Ceramic Coatings for Piston Tops, Combustion Chambers, Valves etc !!

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerabout View Post
    I'm talking outboards so its megaphone exhaust and not expansion chambers

    Positive is exhaust out
    Negative is reflected wave back into the cylinder
    Chaz = thinking , I promised myself I would not do this again .
    I will try to keep this brief but there are a few key points that need to be made .

    #1 ) Your mentor and FuMP are basically idiots . Nothing personal , just the truth based on false facts of the "short little read" . So try and not let that cloud your vision .

    #2 ) Talking outboard's and only straight pipe / megaphone ... so there should be no confusion of a "RETURNING POSITIVE PRESSURE WAVE".

    #3 ) Positive wave out ... Lets call that a SHOCK WAVE . The "shock" part of it is a high pressure area . The "wave" part is a movement containing "peaks and valleys"

    #4 ) Negative ( that alone should tell you there is no pressure ) is not "reflective" . Reflective would mean it would be a positive .
    It is actually a RAREFACTION wave ( self similar ) that will always follow a shock wave . If you look at the GIF below you will be able to see that none of the lines leave the picture on the left side wall . If you were to add a ( divergent ) megaphone shape to the right side you would see that the lines would bend at the same angle as the megaphone . That action would be , sweep , pull , scavenge , vacuum , evacuate.
    As mentioned in Jennings text , the greater the angle the more intense but shorter lived the signal will become .





    Post 88 I said the farmer has to maintain the same pressure at each sprinkler to ensure spray is the same
    Which will spray first will depend on the pressure created by the line resistance at the volume being sent down it versus the pressure required to make the sprinkler spray so could be either depending on the size/resistance of that connecting pipe
    The water will follow the path of least resistance . Which would be to go to the end of the line and build pressure back to the source. Basic hydraulics ...

    #5 ) The only way to keep pressure over the long span is to reduce the conduit's diameter as you move away from the source .
    Just as the only way to lower the pressure is to open up the pipe .. err .. conduit as you move away from the shockwave ... err ... pump .

    That's about as simple as I know how to explain it .

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  5. #124
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    Name:  scribble-napkin-table-pen-5310409.jpg
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  6. #125
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    So my mentor ( an OMC/BRP Engineer) that was explaining the Etec 2 cyl and v4 showing a ton of engineering was spent on getting the reverse pulse/wave to work ( are we calling that positive pressure wave?) was all wasted money as they should have come to your workshop with your in cylinder pressure monitoring equipment on your dyno to become educated as you did?
    Your mentor Jennings and his equipment (what was that) learnt what he could and that was cutting edge but that was 30 years ago and never looked at an outboard as far I can see?
    I learnt a bit from Phil Irving but that was a while ago too.

    What do those MSD water flow valves kits do to the exhaust on 2 stroke jet skis?

    #5 ) The only way to keep pressure over the long span is to reduce the conduit's diameter as you move away from the source .
    Just as the only way to lower the pressure is to open up the pipe .. err .. conduit as you move away from the shockwave ... err ... pump .

    Two ways to skin a cat, if the pipe is big ( so line speed and resistance is not a factor) you can have the same pressure at each nozzle, basic hydraulics. ( just like the fuel manifold on most EFI engines is trying to achieve, are they tapered?)
    Last edited by powerabout; 12-20-2017 at 10:02 AM.

  7. #126
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    Charlie you owe me 42 mins of my life back. That is how long a stared at the lines waiting for something to happen.

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  9. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerabout View Post
    So my mentor ( an OMC/BRP Engineer) that was explaining the Etec 2 cyl and v4 showing a ton of engineering was spent on getting the reverse pulse/wave to work ( are we calling that positive pressure wave?) was all wasted money as they should have come to your workshop with your in cylinder pressure monitoring equipment on your dyno to become educated as you did?
    Your mentor Jennings and his equipment (what was that) learnt what he could and that was cutting edge but that was 30 years ago and never looked at an outboard as far I can see?
    I learnt a bit from Phil Irving but that was a while ago too.

    What do those MSD water flow valves kits do to the exhaust on 2 stroke jet skis?

    #5 ) The only way to keep pressure over the long span is to reduce the conduit's diameter as you move away from the source .
    Just as the only way to lower the pressure is to open up the pipe .. err .. conduit as you move away from the shockwave ... err ... pump .

    Two ways to skin a cat, if the pipe is big ( so line speed and resistance is not a factor) you can have the same pressure at each nozzle, basic hydraulics. ( just like the fuel manifold on most EFI engines is trying to achieve, are they tapered?)

    Couldn't make it past #1 ) I see .

    E-Tec .... ???? I was hoping you would get a grasp on the correct terminology , it's meaning and the affects on 1 single cylinder before diving into multi cylinders , lay-outs and the different ways they interact ....

    Ohh well , I tried ...


    Charlie you owe me 42 mins of my life back. That is how long a stared at the lines waiting for something to happen.
    I know your time away from Burger King is worth way more ... but can I get you a large "boiled peanuts" @ Lil-Jim's and we call it even ... ???

    BTW ... That map that vnemous posted is the directions to Gilligan's Island .. you'll see I didn't let him get your parking spot ...

  10. #128
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    So with the gobs of torque that your strokers already have, are you just tuning your Blunderbuss for the high end?
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it...

  11. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemvegas View Post
    Charlie you owe me 42 mins of my life back. That is how long a stared at the lines waiting for something to happen.
    Awwww Dave so close, you wont believe what happens at 45 minutes

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  13. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Couldn't make it past #1 ) I see .

    E-Tec .... ???? I was hoping you would get a grasp on the correct terminology , it's meaning and the affects on 1 single cylinder before diving into multi cylinders , lay-outs and the different ways they interact ....

    Ohh well , I tried ...
    This being an outboard engine web site and mainly v6 how about we keep the conversation to 3 cyl connected exhausts and I dont see any of the non outboard 2 stroke experts having experience with that so hypotheticals on single cylinder expansion chamber engines ( where there are millions of articles) are as useful as a chocolate tea pot in this conversation.
    I do see you are keen for correct terminology but wasted 100 posts with the price is right question time just to get there.
    How about you list the actions and the terms so we can all be on the same page?

  14. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF View Post
    So with the gobs of torque that your strokers already have, are you just tuning your Blunderbuss for the high end?


    Blunderbuss .... LMAO , That's such an accurate descriptive ...
    I have always looked at this as my "family" boat . And even though every single part and piece has been rubbed on , none of it was done to shorten it's fuse .
    And unless I "riding" with Davie ( keep in mind , he'll quit racing ya , turn around and chase someone down to race them , then come back after ya again ) then I just want something that is reliable , pulls hard down low and thru the middle and will run 100 mph for as long as I want . If you think about it , none of us run with the tounge hanging out of them all the time .
    I have had cars with too much cam for the converter , just miserable to drive . If anything now , I err on the side of being to conservative .
    These two powerheads are 3462 cc and use regular 3.0L cranks . My dad ( LOL ) Fuller Sr. did make me a great on a pair of 3.2 cranks a while back . They are going in the next set that I am doing that will be 180+ cc bigger .
    I have another one to do that is just a mild port job , clean-up bore the "dreaded towel trick" to the block . I spent pretty good money on parts to make that whole thing happen , so naturally I anxious to see if that's something I want to put out there .. or put in the scrap bin ...
    BTW , don't know if you were aware , Bob Glidden passed away Monday . The world lost a really sharp dude when we lost him .

  15. #132
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    No I hadn't heard that Chaz(losing Bob) as he was one of my Drag racing heros. Didn't he hold the record for round wins(Pro that is) in NHRA?
    Quite a feat considering how they had to drive those PS cars back then!
    Gary
    "12" Super Lite Tunnel (11') "88" 25 Yammy twin carb "BANANA SPLIT"
    "77" Hydrostream Viper "87" 140 Rude heavy modded w/15" mid, Bobs nose and lwp (in progress)
    "Too much is never enough" Keith Richards " Dreams become reality via hard work and perseverance" G.A.Carbonneau

    "This coming from an old man that strapped two bananas together, hung a motor on it and calls it a boat" XstreamVking

  16. #133
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    And unless I "riding" with Davie ( keep in mind , he'll quit racing ya , turn around and chase someone down to race them , then come back after ya again ) then I just want something that is reliable , pulls hard down low and thru the middle and will run 100 mph for as long as I want . If you think about it , none of us run with the tongue hanging out of them all the time
    Charlie. I do remember a day that you went under the Jensen causeway a few boat lengths in front of me. You did the old Billy Burnrubber move on me and stole the wiggle. About 18 miles later when you let off early i had already closed the gap from 3 boat lengths to 2 1/2 lengths. I think i would have caught you if you run the full race to the Vero beach bridge. I think your 7000 rpm 300x motors were giving you a big advantage. Every 10 miles we ran. You burned 3 times the gas that my Opti-Turds burn. Thinking back. I should have tossed Lisa at the 10 mile mark to even the load.

  17. #134
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    Yes Chaz I knew we had lost another Icon from our era.

    http://www.dragzine.com/news/breakin...es-away-at-73/

    Always loved the brake creep with the big cams. Funny you say how you are more conservative. The warden, as you say, keeps asking me if I'm going to get a sports car when my 10yr old daily driver needs replacing. Ehhh, I'm more into comfort and ease of entry these days.
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it...

  18. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by vnemous View Post
    Awwww Dave so close, you wont believe what happens at 45 minutes
    I gotta admit , that was a pretty good one ... right there ...

    Power :
    This being an outboard engine web site and mainly v6 how about we keep the conversation to 3 cyl connected exhausts and I dont see any of the non outboard 2 stroke experts having experience with that so hypotheticals on single cylinder expansion chamber engines ( where there are millions of articles) are as useful as a chocolate tea pot in this conversation.
    I do see you are keen for correct terminology but wasted 100 posts with the price is right question time just to get there.
    How about you list the actions and the terms so we can all be on the same page?
    Pow-pow ,
    Just as you can't change your fingerprints or a zebra can't change it's stripes , a two strokes basic principals will remain the same .
    One must know the proper terminology and it's definition in order to communicate .
    I have went out of my to eliminate the "holding tank back to the stinger" portion of the workings of an expansion chamber . Which only leaves the header (log) pipe and divergent (tuner) cone and you tell me , expansion chambers and those who build / write about them don't count .
    Soooo ,
    I go outside the box to use parables such as , sound , air , water , all of which use the same fluid dynamic principals in movement . Also , to no avail .
    At this point , I have no idea what you are looking for . But if you want to skip the basics and go off the cliff of lumping all V- 6 outboards with different log / tuner / 60*-90* split configurations , their interactions and effects on each other , into one set in stone pat answer . I think your going to be disappointed with the results .

    Davie sez :
    Charlie. I do remember a day that you went under the Jensen causeway a few boat lengths in front of me. You did the old Billy Burnrubber move on me and stole the wiggle. About 18 miles later when you let off early i had already closed the gap from 3 boat lengths to 2 1/2 lengths. I think i would have caught you if you run the full race to the Vero beach bridge. I think your 7000 rpm 300x motors were giving you a big advantage. Every 10 miles we ran. You burned 3 times the gas that my Opti-Turds burn. Thinking back. I should have tossed Lisa at the 10 mile mark to even the load.
    Billy Burnrubber also taught me to just hold ya by a fender ...

    Ya know , after about 5 miles ... I started thinkin - I hope Mama Lisa don't throw his big azz out ... cuz then my ol 100,000 mile 225's wouldn't have nuttin for her .

    Brandon and I never laughed so ******* hard as when the warden was introducing our new daughter-in-law to your wife ... and a I/O Donzi rode past and in the middle of introductions you fired up and chased him down with that ol Vegas you had ..

    OlBoat / MidLife ,
    That's why I split my time being too old and tryin to be young again ... cuz we never know what tomorrow brings ...




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