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  1. #1
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    Bottom pick ups Merc 400 verados

    My speedster is still at least a month from completion. I am considering running bottom mount water pick ups from the get go and having eliminator do the rigging.

    The only 28 speedster with 400's I have been in was the fast, fairly lite one that you have seen all over the forums. It is silver with blacks and greys and ran a best of 127mph.

    When I rode in and drove it, the temp alarms come on once and we had to slow down. The engines were as high as they could go and the water pressure was too low if any trim was used. Above 100, the trim could be lowered to neutral or slightly negative. Then, there were no alarms and water pressure at about 25 psi was ok.

    Rather than go through tweaking the water path in the bottom and enlarging the cooling slots in the lowers, which was marginal at best, I am thinking of starting out with the bottom pick ups and not having to worry about water pressures.

    I don't think Merc likes this, but it might be better than frying a powerhead.

    What do you experts think?

  2. #2
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    Don't do it, Mercury will void your warranty. That's why none of the 400R boats have that setup on them. This was told to me explicitly, over and over again by Pete at Skater. Mercury is adamant that the motors stay completely stock, using the gearcase pickups to supply water to the motors. You can't even install your own wingplates on the motors - the 400Rs that are ordered for twins come with the wingplates already installed (you probably already know that). I've even heard rumor (which I don't believe to be true) that Mercury wants only their props run on the motors to maintain the warranty. They're very touchy when it comes to the warranty on these new motors.
    Last edited by Rayzor; 02-15-2017 at 07:23 PM.

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  4. #3
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    I hear you. There have been many posts saying this will void your warranty, which is a very valuable 3 years on the newest verados. It is ironic that doing something to prevent an engine from overheating, would not be supported by a manufacturer. I am sure that the real racers would not care and do whatever is necessary. I probably won't do it on a new boat and just keep the X a bit lower. The other thing that may help some is a thicker mount, allowing more setback. The brackets I have seen so far on DCB and Eliminator won't allow the motors to be trimmed up to the fullest extent without contacting the engine cover. There is no need to trim that high unless someone thought they were placing them in a "trailer position". Actually doing this may be harmful or at least cause some smoking on startup due to draining fuel into the intake tract.

    Since the hull has notches under the outboard mounting space, more setback may further help water pressure. For some reason, the fastest daytona built had the motors mounted as close to the transom as possible using a 2" bracket. Many hulls are faster with some setback, 14" on the Imco Scx-4. Outboards may be different. Also, more setback should provide better leverage getting on plane. Maybe I will ask for thicker brackets during the rigging. Wish I had more definitive information b4 making this decision. the riggers at eliminator
    seem unsure of help or harm of thicker brackets.

  5. #4
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    It has been done already. Now when and if the motor has a problem it may be fight for warranty depending on the failure. With all the guardian modes the motors have it would be hard to overheat one and blow a motor. I bet if the engine had a internal failure unrelated to temp or water flow they would have a hard time denying a claim. if there are any failures with the lower unit then you will be out of luck.
    I also Mercury has allowed cross-over tubes for high x dimensions and turning without voiding the warranty. So far the motors and lower units have been very reliable. I bet getting that big gear case out of the water will have big gains in speed. May be worth the gamble LOL.
    You have to ask yourself: DO YOU FEEL LUCKY!
    Double Rigged
    308 Skater w/ 300x's

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  7. #5
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    Carving some water passages in the running surface will work as well. I did this on a 32 with X motors and was able to raise the motors another 3/4 which was good for just over 4 mph. Sand paper and 1 1/4 inch pvc pipe forward to aft lined up with the nosecone.

    Joe

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  9. #6
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    Beautiful,
    most overnite successes usually take at least 10 years


    Certified turd polisher,

  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPEROG View Post
    Carving some water passages in the running surface will work as well. I did this on a 32 with X motors and was able to raise the motors another 3/4 which was good for just over 4 mph. Sand paper and 1 1/4 inch pvc pipe forward to aft lined up with the nosecone.

    Joe
    did you flare the sides to compensate for even slight turning at speed?

  11. #8
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    I used a 1 1/4 pipe and it worked great. I ran a go pro camera on the transom to watch the water spray and continued to grind until it looked optimum for the spray pattern to the bottom of the case. Like I said, it worked really well.

    Joe

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  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPEROG View Post
    I used a 1 1/4 pipe and it worked great. I ran a go pro camera on the transom to watch the water spray and continued to grind until it looked optimum for the spray pattern to the bottom of the case. Like I said, it worked really well.

    Joe
    Oh, come on Joe, don't go giving away all of our secrets! Lol I did basically the same thing on my first 28 when I re-rigged with 3.0 liters and mounted them to the transom. Having to jump a bolt hole to raise or lower my motors, at 1.5" above, water pressure was great, but didn't get the speed I wanted. One bolt hole up and I was at 2.25" above the bottom, and I got the speed I was looking for, but not enough water pressure. I ground some water ramps in the bottom and gave me the water I needed to keep the gearcases up at 2.25". If I were in a long, sweeping turn, the inside motor would drop pressure and get warm though - I had to watch for it!

  14. #10
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    Not really a secret, eliminator did this on dondels 126 mph boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by conmax View Post
    Not really a secret, eliminator did this on dondels 126 mph boat.
    It was a joke buddy, don't take things so seriously. Also don't take the #s the 28 Eliminators are running with 400s that seriously either - Skater 28s have been running mid teens with 300s for over a decade now. My buddy Jim Melly (RIP) was running mid teens at the LOTO Shootout back in the mid 2000s. Tom Kennedy just ran a 126 at the Shootout last year with his 28 Skater/300s. Hell, even my old 28 Skater with a rough water setup ran 120mph w/ 300s. Can't wait to see the 28 Eliminators with 400s run this year at LOTO - if any of them run the event. Even with a 25% advantage in HP, I doubt they will run the same #s as the 300 powered 28 Skaters. Oh, and I almost forgot, just wait to see the numbers we get out of my buddy's new RGR 28 with 300XSs! I will gladly make a video of your 28/400s vs Dan's 28/300s from any speed you would like to start from, if you would like to come up north to compare them. I've said it a many, many times, I never argue that the centerpod boats are better recreation boats (it's no comparison, centerpod boats do many things better for the average performance boater), but the centerpod boat guys have got to stop comparing pure performance to the true tunnel boats - because that is also no comparison.

  16. #12
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    Dale, How soon are you getting Dan's RGR 28 out on the water?!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidlake View Post
    Dale, How soon are you getting Dan's RGR 28 out on the water?!!
    Hey David, it should be in a few weeks. Not only do we not have the weather for it yet, but we've also got to get the water pressure relief system installed before we take it out. As I learned with my 28 w/ XSs, once you start running high teens/twenties, the XS can't bleed water fast enough, which leads to an overpressure problem. Even running quad-seal water pump caps, I was pushing water into the gearcases of my XSs until I installed the system I came up with. I will definitely post up pics and details once we get it out on the water!

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  19. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayzor View Post
    Hey David, it should be in a few weeks. Not only do we not have the weather for it yet, but we've also got to get the water pressure relief system installed before we take it out. As I learned with my 28 w/ XSs, once you start running high teens/twenties, the XS can't bleed water fast enough, which leads to an overpressure problem. Even running quad-seal water pump caps, I was pushing water into the gearcases of my XSs until I installed the system I came up with. I will definitely post up pics and details once we get it out on the water!
    Look forward to seeing what you came up with!

  20. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayzor View Post
    It was a joke buddy, don't take things so seriously. Also don't take the #s the 28 Eliminators are running with 400s that seriously either - Skater 28s have been running mid teens with 300s for over a decade now. My buddy Jim Melly (RIP) was running mid teens at the LOTO Shootout back in the mid 2000s. Tom Kennedy just ran a 126 at the Shootout last year with his 28 Skater/300s. Hell, even my old 28 Skater with a rough water setup ran 120mph w/ 300s. Can't wait to see the 28 Eliminators with 400s run this year at LOTO - if any of them run the event. Even with a 25% advantage in HP, I doubt they will run the same #s as the 300 powered 28 Skaters. Oh, and I almost forgot, just wait to see the numbers we get out of my buddy's new RGR 28 with 300XSs! I will gladly make a video of your 28/400s vs Dan's 28/300s from any speed you would like to start from, if you would like to come up north to compare them. I've said it a many, many times, I never argue that the centerpod boats are better recreation boats (it's no comparison, centerpod boats do many things better for the average performance boater), but the centerpod boat guys have got to stop comparing pure performance to the true tunnel boats - because that is also no comparison.
    I don't recommend that you take Dale up on his invite to play with Dan's new boat. It is very fast with 300XS motors...
    Joe

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