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  1. #1
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    Balsa core lamination

    I'm in the process of rebuilding my hydrostream viper and am having trouble getting the core to stick. I am soaking the balsa with resin then soaking the hull then putting more on the balsa then set it on the soaked hull. The next day I go out and I can press on it and see it moving. With a little pry bar action it will pop out and I can see where it was actually adhered. I've been reading and I think I should get some cabosil to thicken the resin. What I think is happening is the balsa is soaking it all in leaving nothing left to bond with. I'm using about 5oz of resin per sq foot, is that about right?

  2. #2
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    Ok sound to me if its still moves next day you do not have enough catalyst in the resin !
    What percentage of catalyst are you using ??
    next really important question is how old is your catalyst ?? if it any more than 3 months old get rid of it and get some new stuff
    soaking and dribbling resin every where is not the answer just makes a simple job and huge big mess !!
    so you are setting the balsa down onto what ??
    Just resin onto a hard surface ??
    need answers first before we determine the rest of this post !!
    Messing round with boats is fun !! the learning never stops ,even after more than 30 years there's always something new happening somewhere ! BUT somethings never change and some problems never go away and just keep reoccurring !!so moved into Composite Forensics , Now that something completely new !!

  3. #3
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    I am mixing 6ml catalyst per 16oz resin, as the directions asks. The resin and catalyst are 2 weeks old. I am setting the balsa down on the bare hull That is soaked in resin, as is the balsa.

  4. #4
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    You need a core adhesive.

  5. #5
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    You need to vacuum bag it down

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmcviper View Post
    I am mixing 6ml catalyst per 16oz resin, as the directions asks. The resin and catalyst are 2 weeks old. I am setting the balsa down on the bare hull That is soaked in resin, as is the balsa.
    When you say bare hull that's the inner skin !! is best to use a 450 gram csm and wet it to the point of satuirated and then lay your sealed balsa onto that ! if it was possible vacuum bagging is the way to go as it pulls the balsa down , brings the resin up from under and the resin seals the top part of the balsa all at the same time !! I hope the hulls skin has been thoroughly ground all over with a really coarse sand paper disc ,16 grit if possible !!need to get all the surface back to raw glass so the core will adhere to it properly !
    oz and pounds and the ancient imperial weights and measures I gave the bums rush in 1972 so can only think metrics from then on ! one liter of resin close to 1 kilogram you should use 12 mils of catalyst = 1.2 % so it should give you plenty of time to work !! The mixing of catalyst into the resin is really important as well , a battery drill with a paint stirrer is the ideal thing to use, no need to beat it just a good couple of minutes and wash the stirrer as well of you could get lumps if it gels before you use it again !!.what's the thickness of the balsa you using ?? its possible to get pre-sealed balsa as well that saves a few head aches !! 9mm is easy to work with 12 mm a little more difficult and 18 mm is harder still .so what the laminate you using to cover the balsa when you eventually get it all stuck down ground and smooth that's the time after you cleaned up ready to glass is to roll a coat of resin over it and totally seal it so theres no soaking taking place with the tip laminate also in the case if small pockets of air that will expand when the top layers are going hard and get warm and make bubbles if you do get any just poke a sharp chisel into and let the air escape??
    Core bond is another product that can be used to stick balsa , don't need the 450 csm matt under it but still have to grind the surface of the glass first .In this case you'd need to use sealed balsa and wet it with resin as well to help with the adhesion to the core bond !!.

  7. #7
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    The "Bare hull" is skin and old core removed and ground to the strand in the glass.

  8. #8
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    Thank you for the extensive reply. I really appreciate it!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmcviper View Post
    Thank you for the extensive reply. I really appreciate it!
    One of the biggest problems you will find on any of these sites usually comes back to guys not being accurate enough with weights a measure's of products , second is the she'll be right attitude !! and not forgetting mixing of catalyst into resin I have just finished a long and informative account on that very subject in a work shop where I was QA not so long ago . This place was out of control
    Weather is another factor no many people think to much about!, wet, cold, hot and wet, and HUMIDITY !!
    Humidity can be the hidden killer and the thing that slows things down and guys end up scratching there heads wondering what has happening !!Humidity not only affects the resin and what it comes in contact with but its in the glass you have as well it absorbs moisture and when you wet out your glass the unseen moisture slows the gel time and prevents it from Curing properly .
    I asked before but what is the glass layup you going to put over the top of the new balsa ??!!
    Messing round with boats is fun !! the learning never stops ,even after more than 30 years there's always something new happening somewhere ! BUT somethings never change and some problems never go away and just keep reoccurring !!so moved into Composite Forensics , Now that something completely new !!

  10. #10
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    I Have chop stand to put over the core.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmcviper View Post
    I Have chop stand to put over the core.
    And that's all ??

    wow this is what id recommend because the hull bottom will take come pounding and id say you have a 9 mm core just guessing !
    Over the balsa a layer of csm + a layer of triaxle fabric that will have a 225 gram csm on one side !! looking at the glass layers it needs look like this csm + ( 45/45/90 + 225 csm) , The 90 degree runs from over the keel to the chine across the hull and needs to be to top most layer with the light 225 csm over it ,The 2x 45 degree glasses make it very strong and will take a lot of pounding and short sharp shock loads such as hitting wakes at speed ,BUT the 90 is the one that gives you rigidity! and keeps the hulls shape in shape and with a small hull you shouldn't need any stringers inside at all ,The 90 degree glass is there to replace them !!
    Now thats going to raise a few eye brows and shake a few heads!!, the inside glass is doing lots more work than the outside layers of chopped strand and woven roving like everything is and was Made from in the US since dinosaur's played in your back yard !
    The wee boat on my avatar was built 1975 and had a tired 70 omc , is solid glass with a glass top hat , I chopped off the transom and replaces it and there is no wood any where in the boat the out board is stepped 450mm back and with a 25 inch 115 Yamaha 2 stroke does 125 kilometer's per hour and it was just my hobby fishing boat !it would jump on the plane like a jet ski !!. The guy that bought it scared the pants off him with the 115 so he fitted a 25 inch 90 hp mariner but didn't slow it down much !
    Good luck
    Last edited by tunnels; 06-09-2016 at 08:08 AM.
    Messing round with boats is fun !! the learning never stops ,even after more than 30 years there's always something new happening somewhere ! BUT somethings never change and some problems never go away and just keep reoccurring !!so moved into Composite Forensics , Now that something completely new !!

  12. #12
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    I have 13mm core (1/2"). I will ask the guy at the supply store about triaxial mat. If I don't put full stringers in can I get away without putting a plywood floor in? I want to put a knee in braving the transom to the floor.

  13. #13
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    Use aerosol and use a 1/4 x 1/4 u notch trowel. Activate the resin and use on bottom side of balsa ans set it in the activated aerosol mix use a little weight but also push it into the aerosol. Will be rock hard. Make sure your are not getting an upward sag from bunks, make sure the bottom is relaxed.
    2004 DYNA T/C 95 dyno 90hp
    1976 Ventura 200 Prostock

  14. #14
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    where are you located in MN? Who is your supplier of resin and glass?
    1973 Viper - sold
    1978 Viking - sold
    1995 XB02

  15. #15
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    Express composits in North Minneapolis, I picked up some supplies today and got some advice from the guy working there. I am removing all the core I put in and laying csm then placing balsa on that. I live near Cambridge. Rj my wife and I met you last fall on hydrostream run, we had the red and black viper with the tower of power.

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