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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipper View Post
    I would think useing a cnc to machine a block would be less than half the cost of casting one? Foundry costs are what's expensive i was told. Of course the cnc isnt cheep but Aluminium crate engines are and the 2.5 is much less material than a BB v8. ?
    The cost of billet is way more than cast in my experience. The expensive part about casting is the molds.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCSmile View Post
    A little off topic, but what do ya'll think about a high performance 4-stroke. The fourstrokes are taking over dirtbikes and just about everything else. I heard that merc's current 115's are lighter than the 2 stroke opti's? Those new 150's are supposed to be torque monsters. Would like to see one go on a diet down to 430#, add a super charger, and let her rip. F1 cars and street bikes are spinning 12000, maybe merc will start playing with that.
    They have it's called a verado except the weight is unacceptable. The old 350 and the new 400 are pretty good power plants. Mercury and the Dubai based Victory team built a 15" version of the 350 but the cost for Xcat race teams was $70,000 for a pair. Buy one and sell it at consumer price equals $40k easily......

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    Last edited by Todd D; 10-23-2015 at 03:14 PM.

  3. #48
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    As soon as I try a 250XS on a 15" with 2.5 Sportmaster I am going to look hard at the 115 HP 2.1 liter 4-stroke. Need to adapt it to a 15" or 12" 2.5 mid so the only development work is on the powerhead. Spray it first to see if there is potential. One thing Mercury has done over the years is over engineer rods and cranks. I have heard the powerhead is actually a Yamaha. If it takes a 100-150 shot of nitrous then start looking at porting, polishing, compression, exhaust mods, cam regrind. Probably have to adapt a different ECM as I have no idea if anyone out there is messing with whatever comes on them stock. That side of it is where I will need help. The rest of it is just old school hot rodder stuff. A valve train without valve springs would allow a little motor like that to buzz 15,000 to 16,000 rpms.

    The new 150 HP 4-stroke is 3.0 Liters!! The price for the motor is right at $10K!!! And a 3-year warranty. Pump the brakes and make a U-turn?? I use my XTB 21 for cruising and fishing. 455 pounds is not much heavier than the ProMax I have on it now and if I went to lithium batteries instead of the 70 pound monsters I have in it now I am lighter than I am now. Wondering if these motors take flo-torq props? If I could bolt this on the XTB and run 70 mph I would get one just to get familiar with the 4-stroke. Anybody familiar with what propshaft they used in these?
    Last edited by LongShot; 10-25-2015 at 10:41 AM.
    Dave Hensley


    1986 XR2002 /12" Mariner and string steering
    18' Pugh Hydro
    1992 XTB-21/225 ProMax

    The barn is emptying out!!!

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipper View Post
    I would think useing a cnc to machine a block would be less than half the cost of casting one? Foundry costs are what's expensive i was told. Of course the cnc isnt cheep but Aluminium crate engines are and the 2.5 is much less material than a BB v8. ?
    Why bother with this billet nonsense? Merc has all of it done and the tooling paid for on the 2.5. You just have to convince them that $19,900 is worth two years of warranty. I think that if they put that together they would sell 439lb 245hp motors (for $20k) like proverbial hot cakes. They MUST give the warranty for two years though.

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  6. #50
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    Here in Europe, we Race a 23ft Batboat and have used both a Stock 2013 200XS Gen 2 15" with 2:1 Sportmaster and a Stock Mercury 250 XS 20" with a 1.75:1 Sportmaster. The boat weighs 2120 lbs fueled and ready to race excluding driver/co-driver. The 250XS is about 10 MPH faster top end with the same 30" Propeller (this prop was fastest on both motors so I'm comparing apples to apples) We found that the 200XS makes maximum power at around 6700 rpm whilst the 250 XS at around the 6k mark. We tried spinning the 200XS at 7000rpm with an identical make prop with a lower pitch but the boat will loose about 2-3 mph top end. We concluded that the torque of the 3.0L 250XS is noticeably greater than that of the 200XS. Also the 200XS is VERY weight sensitive as opposed to the 250XS. I also know of another two identical 22ft boats with a 200XS and the other with a 250XS. The 200XS boat weighs 400 lbs less then the 250 XS boat and their top speeds are nearly identical..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 10428141_10153213201279993_5935627565961112497_n.jpg  

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bep078 View Post
    Here in Europe, we Race a 23ft Batboat and have used both a Stock 2013 200XS Gen 2 15" with 2:1 Sportmaster and a Stock Mercury 250 XS 20" with a 1.75:1 Sportmaster. The boat weighs 2120 lbs fueled and ready to race excluding driver/co-driver. The 250XS is about 10 MPH faster top end with the same 30" Propeller (this prop was fastest on both motors so I'm comparing apples to apples) We found that the 200XS makes maximum power at around 6700 rpm whilst the 250 XS at around the 6k mark. We tried spinning the 200XS at 7000rpm with an identical make prop with a lower pitch but the boat will loose about 2-3 mph top end. We concluded that the torque of the 3.0L 250XS is noticeably greater than that of the 200XS. Also the 200XS is VERY weight sensitive as opposed to the 250XS. I also know of another two identical 22ft boats with a 200XS and the other with a 250XS. The 200XS boat weighs 400 lbs less then the 250 XS boat and their top speeds are nearly identical..
    Great information. Thanks for the post! Interesting that the 200XS Gen 2 is making max power at 6700 as compared to my Promax 225 making max power of 246hp at 6400rpm. I know that some of you guys in EMEA have dyno'd the Gen 2 motors. Do you happen to know any horsepower stats on it by chance?

  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShot View Post

    Wondering if these motors take flo-torq props? If I could bolt this on the XTB and run 70 mph I would get one just to get familiar with the 4-stroke. Anybody familiar with what propshaft they used in these?
    Couldn't tell ya if they are the same size as like sportmaster's and the like but I worked at a Lund dealership this summer and we sold probably 30 of those new 150's. Supposed to be torque monsters. We ran Flo torque hubs on all of them.

  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCSmile View Post
    Couldn't tell ya if they are the same size as like sportmaster's and the like but I worked at a Lund dealership this summer and we sold probably 30 of those new 150's. Supposed to be torque monsters. We ran Flo torque hubs on all of them.
    Any consistent problems with the 150's??
    Dave Hensley


    1986 XR2002 /12" Mariner and string steering
    18' Pugh Hydro
    1992 XTB-21/225 ProMax

    The barn is emptying out!!!

  10. #54
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    a lot to be said. the 200xs was't that more power full as compared to the 200efi or carb. they were very more fuel efficient then any 2.5 motors. the smart craft recored mpg was 7.4 max for either a allison or a hydrostream voyager. i have a 2004 200xs and the only issue was alenator. that's good value for a 11 yr old motor. i wish i had bought the 2.5sx [so it was avaliable in 2004], it was a 2.5 on a 3.0 lower unit.

    i fully support the re issuing of either motor sorry for spelling

  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg G View Post
    Great information. Thanks for the post! Interesting that the 200XS Gen 2 is making max power at 6700 as compared to my Promax 225 making max power of 246hp at 6400rpm. I know that some of you guys in EMEA have dyno'd the Gen 2 motors. Do you happen to know any horsepower stats on it by chance?
    Don't know actual power levels. But I have seen them rated at 225 hp by Mercury in the small decal on the saddle bracket next to the serial number. Regarding max power, it could be less at then 6700 rpm however the boat ran quickest at those rpm levels... The fuel efficiency is amazing tho.. About 25% less fuel consumption compared to the 3 liter 250XS.

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  13. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShot View Post
    Any consistent problems with the 150's??
    Unfortunately here in Iowa we don't see people run these motors a ton so the amount of high hour 150's in the shop was pretty low. We had a few come through with cooling troubles, but other than that I didn't see any major issues. Definitely would be helpful to find somebody who has seen them with high hours to see if them turn into time bombs. The 200xs really would be the ticket, but as I expect to see merc drift toward four strokes, I really would like to see their performance dept. fool around with these. Any idea what the torque curves are like on a 4-stoke and if you could spin them 10k plus on a boat? Seems to be working in other motor sports, but no gear box creates a little different situation.

  14. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by hsbob View Post
    a lot to be said. the 200xs was't that more power full as compared to the 200efi or carb. they were very more fuel efficient then any 2.5 motors. the smart craft recored mpg was 7.4 max for either a allison or a hydrostream voyager. i have a 2004 200xs and the only issue was alenator. that's good value for a 11 yr old motor. i wish i had bought the 2.5sx [so it was avaliable in 2004], it was a 2.5 on a 3.0 lower unit.

    i fully support the re issuing of either motor sorry for spelling
    I may be mixing folks up but aren't you the guy who had identical boats, one with a Gen 1 200XS and one with a 200 EFI? I believe you are correct on the Gen 1 being a bit low on the power. Several guys over the years have had them and while they are/were great motors on many levels if I remember correctly they made 210hp.

  15. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCSmile View Post
    Unfortunately here in Iowa we don't see people run these motors a ton so the amount of high hour 150's in the shop was pretty low. We had a few come through with cooling troubles, but other than that I didn't see any major issues. Definitely would be helpful to find somebody who has seen them with high hours to see if them turn into time bombs. The 200xs really would be the ticket, but as I expect to see merc drift toward four strokes, I really would like to see their performance dept. fool around with these. Any idea what the torque curves are like on a 4-stoke and if you could spin them 10k plus on a boat? Seems to be working in other motor sports, but no gear box creates a little different situation.
    JC I like your thinking. I am just wondering what the limitations of the motor are. If you took one and went through all the experimental stuff that very first 150 HP V-6 two stroke went through I think the outcome would be jaw dropping. I am calling Jaco in the morning to find out a few details on driveshaft spline, motor mount configuration and propshaft size. I want one.
    Dave Hensley


    1986 XR2002 /12" Mariner and string steering
    18' Pugh Hydro
    1992 XTB-21/225 ProMax

    The barn is emptying out!!!

  16. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShot View Post
    JC I like your thinking. I am just wondering what the limitations of the motor are. If you took one and went through all the experimental stuff that very first 150 HP V-6 two stroke went through I think the outcome would be jaw dropping. I am calling Jaco in the morning to find out a few details on driveshaft spline, motor mount configuration and propshaft size. I want one.
    I'm sure you know better than I do, but from what I've seen mercury generally detunes their engines! Glad to hear you are interested in doing some research. Wouldn't surprise me if mercury left a lot of horsepower to be gained. I think the best part about them is their affordability. My brother is a senior at Iowa State in electrical engineering so I'm trying to get him into learning how these ECU's tick. In this day in age, a lot of performance can be tinkered with in that department. Like I said, I don't want to see the 2 stroke go away, but half the fun of high performance is trying new things. Seeing a 300 horse 450# four-stroke on the back of an Allison spinning 10k with a super charger whining would be pretty cool if you ask me. Maybe not practical at this point (merc probably has a lot of research to do), but if it's economical and can keep these boats around, I'm all for it.

  17. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCSmile View Post
    I'm sure you know better than I do, but from what I've seen mercury generally detunes their engines! Glad to hear you are interested in doing some research. Wouldn't surprise me if mercury left a lot of horsepower to be gained. I think the best part about them is their affordability. My brother is a senior at Iowa State in electrical engineering so I'm trying to get him into learning how these ECU's tick. In this day in age, a lot of performance can be tinkered with in that department. Like I said, I don't want to see the 2 stroke go away, but half the fun of high performance is trying new things. Seeing a 300 horse 450# four-stroke on the back of an Allison spinning 10k with a super charger whining would be pretty cool if you ask me. Maybe not practical at this point (merc probably has a lot of research to do), but if it's economical and can keep these boats around, I'm all for it.
    I'm old school, but I agree that would be cool.
    Dave

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