1973 Evinrude 135 hp deiseling

[racer]

If you have the wire grounded to the block the spark has no place to jump, at least put the plug in the wire and ground the plug.

[powerabout]

I'd like to see a video of it retarding the ignition as you advance it.
Timer base going anticlockwise and flywheel going clockwise how can the result be opposite?

[racer]

Powerabout my thought exactly.

[geichelman]

Powerabout, I wish that I could send you that video, but I'm having trouble getting photos on line at the moment. I know that it all sounds screwy, but that is what it has been doing and so far, I don't know why.
Thank you.

[geichelman]

I'd like to see a video of it retarding the ignition as you advance it.
Timer base going anticlockwise and flywheel going clockwise how can the result be opposite?

Powerabout and "all", I can't do videos, but here are the photos of the engine and the parts as they now are. The new parts are all at CDI, however these parts: a new/used stator, the old timer base, power pack and coils turn out the same "wayout" advance I know that the power pack wires aren't too great to identify, but they are in their proper places. The flywheel on the left has a crack in the head, but the crack doesn't extend through to the magnets. Both flywheels perform the same. If anyone sees anything in these photos that looks wrong, please tell me. I believe that all are connected as they should. The red wires are the ones that I have grounding the plug wires. This is it. Comments are quite welcome.

[geichelman]

I'd like to see a video of it retarding the ignition as you advance it.
Timer base going anticlockwise and flywheel going clockwise how can the result be opposite?

Powerabout and "all", I can't do videos, but here are the photos of the engine and the parts as they now are. The new parts are all at CDI, however these parts: a new/used stator, the old timer base, power pack and coils turn out the same "wayout" advance I know that the power pack wires aren't too great to identify, but they are in their proper places. The flywheel on the left has a crack in the head, but the crack doesn't extend through to the magnets. Both flywheels perform the same. If anyone sees anything in these photos that looks wrong, please tell me. I believe that all are connected as they should. The red wires are the ones that I have grounding the plug wires. This is it. Comments are quite welcome.

[King Dad]

Two items I see, tho neither have a bearing on your ignition issue. 1) port cylinder head has overheated previously. It's discolored enough that I would wonder about the history of the engine.....ie: water pump, vernatherm/thermostat.. compression. and 2) your cam pick-up is off. Or, at least your picking up the carbs too soon. There-fore the motor would be "rich". I suspect your initial timing may be retarded/incorrect also from where it should be (2 to 4 degrees before TDC?? Is that correct?). Anyways, re-do the sync and link. It's off!!
One thing that just came back to mind is this. Mercury has always stated that servicing mechanics crank the engine over and make basic timings checks, both initial and advance timing and adjustments while just cranking the engine over. . OMC however never liked the idea of "cranking" to reading the timing as they stated that at WOT, the timing would/could/may be off by a few degrees. As far as running on a flusher, unhooking the link between the throttle arm and the timer base would allow you to check the advance timing as the engine was running, if you were "quick enough and accurate enough" to shoot and read advance timing as the timer base bumped up against the rubber stop. But, you had to realize , IF you did it this way on a flusher, the engine was gunna rev pretty good. Doing it with that link connected and running up the carbs at the same time was scary. Too much rpms with no load on the engine. Yikes!!! That I wouldn't do!! The best way, according to OMC was always lake test it to test max timimg advance. "In the real world" , mechanics do what they gotta do, as far as fact-finding and troubleshooting, but I would have no problems cranking the engine over trying to find timing marks as you've been doing. I am coming to believe that I don't believe the timing is that far off AND, that those replacement parts are no better.

As to your pictures, I see (and I will continue to look at them) not much else than an engine that's begging to get wet. ...... Get rid of your timing light and hook the next one to the primary coil wires, not the secondary wires. I am getting as bewildered as you.

[geichelman]

Two items I see, tho neither have a bearing on your ignition issue. 1) port cylinder head has overheated previously. It's discolored enough that I would wonder about the history of the engine.....ie: water pump, vernatherm/thermostat.. compression. and 2) your cam pick-up is off. Or, at least your picking up the carbs too soon. There-fore the motor would be "rich". I suspect your initial timing may be retarded/incorrect also from where it should be (2 to 4 degrees before TDC?? Is that correct?). Anyways, re-do the sync and link. It's off!!
One thing that just came back to mind is this. Mercury has always stated that servicing mechanics crank the engine over and make basic timings checks, both initial and advance timing and adjustments while just cranking the engine over. . OMC however never liked the idea of "cranking" to reading the timing as they stated that at WOT, the timing would/could/may be off by a few degrees. As far as running on a flusher, unhooking the link between the throttle arm and the timer base would allow you to check the advance timing as the engine was running, if you were "quick enough and accurate enough" to shoot and read advance timing as the timer base bumped up against the rubber stop. But, you had to realize , IF you did it this way on a flusher, the engine was gunna rev pretty good. Doing it with that link connected and running up the carbs at the same time was scary. Too much rpms with no load on the engine. Yikes!!! That I wouldn't do!! The best way, according to OMC was always lake test it to test max timimg advance. "In the real world" , mechanics do what they gotta do, as far as fact-finding and troubleshooting, but I would have no problems cranking the engine over trying to find timing marks as you've been doing. I am coming to believe that I don't believe the timing is that far off AND, that those replacement parts are no better.

As to your pictures, I see (and I will continue to look at them) not much else than an engine that's begging to get wet. ...... Get rid of your timing light and hook the next one to the primary coil wires, not the secondary wires. I am getting as bewildered as you.

King, that pretty bronze color on the head is from a recommended copper containing gasket shellac that didn't work. That head is the one that got hot enough to warp slightly and I had to flatten it on a granite plate. I should have taken the bronze shellac off. The water pump has been replaced as has the thermostat. The cam roller is on the mark, isn't it? That is the cam "pick up" that you are mentioning - right? The compression is one low cylinder of 98 up to 108 -- I would like to have it better, but that is where it is with out a block rework. I still don't understand why I get such high advance timing marks when I crank it. It seems to me that it should be ok to go.

[geichelman]

King, that pretty bronze color on the head is from a recommended copper containing gasket shellac that didn't work. That head is the one that got hot enough to warp slightly and I had to flatten it on a granite plate. I should have taken the bronze shellac off. The water pump has been replaced as has the thermostat. The cam roller is on the mark, isn't it? That is the cam "pick up" that you are mentioning - right? The compression is one low cylinder of 98 up to 108 -- I would like to have it better, but that is where it is with out a block rework. I still don't understand why I get such high advance timing marks when I crank it. It seems to me that it should be ok to go.

Where did everyone go. I kept getting messages asking for photos. Finally I got them but only King Dad responded to my efforts. I had one "H" of a time getting photos and now everybody is hiding. Don't the photos show anything to answer questions that were "out there"??? I still have a timing issue and I was hoping that someone would see something in the photos that "they" asked for and help me resolve my problem. I still need help. Is anyone there?????

[racer]

Did you try with a plug instead of the wire you are using? Have you checked the timing light? Photo's don't show anything obvious. That engine should be up around 160 PSI for compression so either your gauge is off or its not cranking fast enough which could effect ignition.

[Steve2ManyBoats]

Been a while since I fooled with a motor that old. A coupe of things come to mind. Apologies if they were already covered since this is a long thread and I came in late.

1. Did you ever establish TDC for #1 cylinder and that the marker and flywheel mark are correct when the #1 piston is at TDC? If not, that's the first thing to do. If you already did that, great.

2. Any chance that the stator was installed 90 degrees out of alignment. On some motors you can make that mistake, others have asymmetric bolt holes that prevent this. Are you sure your stator isn't installed 90 degrees off?

3. The 135's have the tightest heads so your compression sounds really low. Your compression gauge might be off, or your rings might be worn. Won't affect timing, but might make the motor a little weak.

4. Your linkage seems OK. Nothing obviously wrong.

I'd still lean towards a mechanical ignition problem, i.e., the orientation of the flywheel, trigger, stator to each other is somehow off.

Steve2ManyBoats

[Steve2ManyBoats]

Quick question - Did the motor ever run correctly or has it always been over-revving for you. If it suddenly started acting up, I'd look for a single component fail. If it's been this way for as long as you've had it, I go back to my post immediately above. I think there is an orientation problem somewhere among the flywheel, stator and trigger.

Steve2ManyBoats

[geichelman]

Quick question - Did the motor ever run correctly or has it always been over-revving for you. If it suddenly started acting up, I'd look for a single component fail. If it's been this way for as long as you've had it, I go back to my post immediately above. I think there is an orientation problem somewhere among the flywheel, stator and trigger.

Steve2ManyBoats

Hi Steve,
Thanks for the comments. I have never had a problem with the motor and I got it new. There has never been a problem with it untiil I made one. I put in a new impeller and when I put the lower unit back I tore a gromlet that proceded to close of some of the flow to the heads. It got hot, surged to very high revs and didn't stop until I pulled the gas line. The key didn't stop it and disconnecting the battery didn't help either. Jump to "today". The "marks" all line up and the wiring is correct - I just came up from looking again. The stator has alignment that can't let it be put on incorrectly and the timing base is about the same. I just finished looking at the flywheel again and it's connection. The TDC mark is at piston top "full up" position. No error there. I have been looking for an orientation misplacement for some time and I can't find one. It has been the "same look" every day. My only hope is that as my new purchases of all components return from CDI this week, something will change when I put them back on. There was no change when they were installed before. Thanks again for the thoughts.

[geichelman]

HI racer,

No, I didn't check the timing with the plugs in. I will try that and see what I get. I wish that the engine was cranking at 160 psi. "Gosh", that would be great. I thought about pulling the block and having it bored oversize, but gave up that idea. I suppose that I will realize about 100 hp, assuming that I get it "going" again. Thanks for the thoughts.

[racervboat]

ok man someone has to say it.You bought it new you got 43yrs out of it now its time to buy a nother new one and quit wasting good money on that piece of old chit good lord man its 2016 already.Now you may go ahead and bust my balls now.LOL