225x questions

**LongShot** · 11-03-2015, 02:44 PM

Just got everything torn apart. Adapter off and separated in two pieces. Correct gasket. Poppet working fine as I could manipulate it from block side. I have yet to find anything that could be causing issue except......I put a long tuner on it and it has the inner exhaust can removed. I was having to idle the thing up around 3000 at times to keep it running. Very little water coming through the adapter plate without the poppet open. I think it was frying the water pump. Got to looking and the extra water for the exhaust loop in the two piece tuner is dependent on the poppet opening too. Possibly even the non-idle being caused by a pig rich condition of some nature and getting a flame front out the tuner right on the WP. If it was at the lake the water in the can might have been at a level sufficient to cool the pump until getting up on plane and the poppet opening. Just for a double check, how long is the copper tube for a 20" can? This whole thing might be, MIGHT be due to the really high idle. Dunno. Putting a one piece adapter on it now. Still need to blow air through block and head dumps from bottom side of water plenum but this might be it. Remember I said the thing would start and have all kinds of water pressure until it had ran for several minutes fighting the idle issue. It was throwing high idle faults.

Modified the one piece adapter to mirror the two piece under the poppet. made a channel there for water to dump from poppet straight through to can. Blocked four holes in the one piece and re-drilled to 1/8". Drilling holes in the can channel that dumps exhaust out the rubber boot at idle so the motor can breath at idle. HELLO?!?!? Where did everyone go? Waiting for me to crash and burn???

**Greg G** · 11-05-2015, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by LongShot

Just got everything torn apart. Modified the one piece adapter to mirror the two piece under the poppet. Made a channel there for water to dump from poppet straight through to the can. Blocked four holes in the one piece and re-drilled to 1/8". Drilling holes in the can channel that dumps exhaust out the rubber boot at idle so the motor can breath at idle.

HELLO?!?!? Where did everyone go? Waiting for me to crash and burn???

You are way above my pay grade with what you are doing Dave.

That said, I give you a ton of credit for trying it. Just to properly document the path, did you start with a stock 280 one piece adapter or is it something else?

**LongShot** · 11-05-2015, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Greg G

You are way above my pay grade with what you are doing Dave.

That said, I give you a ton of credit for trying it. Just to properly document the path, did you start with a stock 280 one piece adapter or is it something else?

Stock 260 adapter. Square tuner. The only thing I am doing is creating a chamber separate from the water plenum in the adapter plate to let the poppet dump to the can. Small block off plate that is welded in and seals at the top to the base plate and gasket. I filled the other 4 drain holes in the one piece adapter and re-sized them to 1/8".I left the ones next to the tuner and just restricted them for cooling of the tuner. I really believe now I was frying the water pump and that might have been due to the cheap sparkplugs not letting the motor idle if that motor is so sensitive to them. If I can get it to idle I think all will be well. I will dump the port tstat like the starboard. We will see!!!!

Length of 20" water tube? Just to double check.
I also modified the adapter to accept 7/16" studs for the tiller arm so I didn't have to drill the existing tiller arm out for the 1/2" bolts.

**Greg G** · 11-05-2015, 09:31 AM

Post the pictures

**Go Time** · 11-05-2015, 01:36 PM

Dave, what size is the hole you drilled at the bottom of the poppet discharge chamber? I like this is mod to the one pc for use with steel bore motors. Are you using a bass or offshore can, cause I think there was an interference directly below that area where the poppet discharges into the can on the offshore can.
The water tube is 18 3/4" ... I checked one when I got home.

**Go Time** · 11-05-2015, 04:22 PM

Dave 18 3/4" tube length

**LongShot** · 11-05-2015, 08:08 PM

Just got back from fishing and read the posts. The water tube I have is on the money. Just wanted to make sure. I am using a bass mid. No obstruction there. I drilled two 21/64" holes through the poppet chamber out the bottom of the adapter plate. That is tap drill size for 3/8"-16 bolt so if need be I will thread them and block them off with aluminum bolts and tack/mill them back down. I welded the divider and sealed it with Kop Kote which is like JB weld on steroids. They use it to build up water turbine wheels and it will stay there. I am still thinking the poppet housing could be used to dump extra water after the poppet opens if you attached a hose to the fitting that now has the hose coming off the divider plate but I am going to leave everything just as it is except dumping the port t-stat the same as starboard. Looking at the two piece adapter I can only find one very small hole that dumps water to the can until the poppet opens or block, heads and divider housing start to drain. it is very small, maybe 3/16"? The water that is routed around the base of the exhaust tuner base dumps out the fitting that goes to the poppet housing. That's why I am thinking that the motor running on the hose for a long period of time at 2500-3000 rpms may have fried the water pump. Does that make sense? This would apply if the motor was at high idle before the water had a chance to fill the block, heads and divider so that those drains would start dumping water. The long tuner aimed right at the WP was like a torch i am guessing. Maybe not.

**Greg G** · 11-05-2015, 08:15 PM

I could have sworn when I went through all my cooling troubles with my X that I ran across a guy who WAS using the poppet in some way as a jury rigged restrictor/dump of some sorts. I'll try and remember more when I'm out on the boat tomorrow. It's supposed to be 70 degrees up here!

**LongShot** · 11-05-2015, 08:22 PM

Nice here today. 76 degrees. We fished to well after dark in tee shirts. Bad juju coming though. I dread winter. Was looking at the opening in the block that the poppet drains into and it is not very big. The pressure on the open side of the poppet and the fitting coming off the adapter should be the same?? Has anyone ever seen what the water pump should pump in gallons per minute at say 4500 RPM?

**Greg G** · 11-05-2015, 09:15 PM

I found my random collection of notes in no particular order..............and probably of no use

If anyone is interested ……I found a picture of my modified poppet valve thatstill functions as it should when using a one pieceplate. I don't have a picture of the internals but basically it has thevalve extended by the same amount as the body is extended, and has thetriangular passage that originally went down into the mid blocked so the waterexits via the barb<o

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With this you can stillrun the thermostats.Inside the poppet is pretty simple,everything is extended about an inch. Aspacer, a longer screw that goes through the diaphram, and a collar for thespring to sit on. All simple if youhave access to a lathe.<o

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Poppet covers can sometimes bedifferent. You probably have a poppet cover made up of a large and smalldiameter, like a “figure eight”. If so there is nothing behind the smalldiameter area and it also has a connection going to a hose at the top of the block.I am sure (but willing to be corrected) that this connection going to the topof the block is there to bleed away any air. You could still keep thishose from the top of the block and feed out the cowl via a pilot sizedrestrictor. If you remove the poppet cover you will see there is a tiny channelbridging the small and large diameters together, therefor dumping the air/waterfrom the top of the block directly into the mid even when the poppet is closed.So the small diameter can be cut off.<o

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Possibly a bit difficult tofollow from my written word, but take the poppet off and have a look inside.<o

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Karl<o

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**LongShot** · 11-05-2015, 09:56 PM

I think I get what he is saying. Will read it again while I sit and look at parts and pieces tomorrow. Sounds like he was doing the same thing just different. I think what I have done mirrors the two piece pretty close. You just have to be willing to modify the one piece adapter. He might be thinking about keeping the water out of the can, like dry stacking. He reinforces what I was saying about using the barb on the poppet cover as a pisser.

**Go Time** · 11-06-2015, 07:50 AM

Its sounds like the same thing as the Simon poppet diverter used to re-direct the poppet discharge out of a hose instead into the can, for dry exhaust on the 3.0L promax and X motas. But this setup doesn't help you as it discharges water outside the can, which ain't gonna cool the waterpump.

**Greg G** · 11-06-2015, 08:13 AM

I dug up the picture from my archive ..........

**LongShot** · 11-06-2015, 09:26 AM

Working on it now. Have to run to town, ugh, to pick up some hardware to bolt the tuner on it. ready to put everything back together. I have got more exit cross sectional area for the poppet exit than the poppet can flow so I think I am OK there. I think biggest issue now will be venting the can of exhaust at idle so I am looking at the "boot" that sits up behind the skirt. It is fed by a channel in the mid that is sealed to the bottom of the adapter. I think I need to open that channel up to allow it to vent can pressure through the boot. No big deal. My can has no holes drilled in it and everything must go through lower unit and out. I will get some pics up later. Got to run.....

**Go Time** · 11-06-2015, 09:36 AM

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Simon version. Both of these extensions discharge outside the mid can and this won't help the waterpump burn-up problem.

Dave, why are you using the "long tuner"? The 225 Promax (again not the X) and 200 EFI use the same short square tuner the 150 use a long tuner. The X mota has a different tuner and I have not seen one, so no help there. The long tuner and no liner would definitely direct a lot of heat to the water pump.