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08-13-2015, 05:55 PM #1Junior Member
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Help with 2002 Mercury Optimax 225hp!!! PLEASE ANYONE.
We have twin Merc Optimax 225hp 2002. The port motor is idling rough. To 1200 RPM.s. Stalls intermittently. Some surging at idle. Problem gets worse over time after cold start.
Here is what we have already checked:
- Only Fault code on DDT..."Sea Tmp Ckt Hi" 104
- Reed valves good...visually inspected with mirror.
- Fuel Rails cleaned.
- Tracker Valve, Fuel regulator Valve, Air Regulator Valve all changed.
- Injectors Cleaned and Tested
- Air compressor disassembled and cleaned
- Schader Valve air pressure Mid 70's
- Fuel Pressure Mid 80's
- New Low Pressure Fuel pump
- All Fuel and Direct injectors Tested by DDT
- Spark Plug Coil Test...all cylinders firing.
- Main Power Relay Good
- All Fuses Good
- Crank Position Sensor Good
- Battery New and 1000 mca rated
Engine will start with throttle out of gear and some throttle applied.
If anyone out there can help we would really appreciate it. Called Mercury Techs and they were also at a loss.
Thanks.
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08-13-2015, 07:02 PM #25000 RPM
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Not a tech by no meens. But are the motors on separate tanks. If so have you tried fresh gas for that motor. The only reason I mentioned it is because you seem to have tried a lot of things but that.
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08-13-2015, 08:48 PM #3
You can scan the engine with the DDT. Otherwise you are just guessing.
Go Time
2003XS GS 225 Promax/ 260 / 280
26 Regulator twin 250 EFI
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08-13-2015, 08:49 PM #4
have you checked that all sensors are reading the proper values that they should at any given point? Sensors will not throw a code unless they are out of range. For example; You can have an ect showing 32 degrees when the temp is actually 100 degrees....... the sensor will be within range but showing incorrect and cause problems running.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors". Plato .
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08-14-2015, 05:24 AM #5Junior Member
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Thanks for the replies guys, Yes we did connect a side saddle tank and no help. In addition boat has been run 150hours with plenty of fresh fuel. Has 600 hours on it. We did run the DDT...no fault codes. As for the sensors, yesterday we started to swap out sensors from the starboard engine (as it is running well) to the port to see if it made a difference. So far no luck. Today we are going to swap out the TPS and try that and we are also thinking maybe high pressure fuel pump. Does that make sense? Will post later.
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08-14-2015, 02:49 PM #6Screaming And Flying!
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Spark plugs changed? Not on list. Just a guess...Those iridium plugs will lose the electrode easily if ran too long w/o replacement
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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08-14-2015, 06:05 PM #7Junior Member
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Yup, sorry forgot to mention spark plugs have 50 hours on them. Changed the TPS with the Starboard motor no luck. No change on Port, Starboard still running fine.
This morning, motor is starting but only after numerous start attempts and some manipulation of Schrader valves on fuel and air side. Seems like motor is warming itself with starter. Once motor is warm she will restart one shot.
Once running she was idling rough. I pulled the injector leads one by one to see if there was a change. Cylinders 3&5 when pulled caused the rough idle to go away.
Gave it time to cool off (lunch, tool run and a cold tasty beverage to take the edge off).
Went through the prolonged starting ritual (would sacrifice a chicken if I thought it would help at this point) once running rough idle went away for no apparent rhyme or reason. Took her out for a bay and ocean test. Initial shift into gear at idle caused stall unless I jammed throttle good to get the RPMs to around 1000. Like a passing kidney stone, the rough running RPM range migrated from idle to the 1100 to 1600 range. Over that she ran like a scalded dog. I did not push her beyond 4500 to 4700 RPMs due to sea conditions. There was also a noticeable stiffness in the throttle and shifter. It became very difficult to get the boat in and out of gear, stalling at dockage. Yet when motor was off, shifter/throttle moved flawlessly.
I am speculating here but I feel there may be an issue with the throttle cable, shifter or lower as it jumped several times in the test run accelerating wildly as i slowly pushed the throttle forward. If the shifter/throttle cables are binding somewhere this could explain a lot. If the binding is causing a different signal to the TPS or other sensor than what was mechanically going on from cable movement it would explain a lot.
Any thoughts out there? Yes including what color chicken? (No animals were actually or will actually be harmed in the repair of this motor.)
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08-14-2015, 08:07 PM #8
There is a shift switch on the shift slide under where the cable hooks up..... that can cause what you're describing...it's basically a cylinder cut-out switch to aid in shifting in and out of gear.....
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors". Plato .
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08-14-2015, 09:04 PM #9Junior Member
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flabum1017
Thanks sounds promising but I have no idea where the shift slide is. Control end or motor end. Sorry better versed in Yamaha than merc parts...last boat had Yammies
thanks again!
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08-14-2015, 09:26 PM #10
on the motor, similar to a yamaha
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors". Plato .
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08-15-2015, 06:35 PM #11Junior Member
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OK another day baking in the sun, this time with a mechanic. Checked the following:
Swap of VST tanks, fuel pumps filters - no help
Checked all remaining sensors Temp, Shift interrupter and oil all OK or at least not contributing to starting issues. Cool trick learned you can unplug those sensors and if they are bad motor will start anyway correctly. Not a good way to run them because they keep stuff from happening but great for trouble shooting.
Swap of ECM units no help.
Per the mechanic if I had compression issues or a bad air compressor, in addition to testing already done I would never get the motors up to the 4000 RPM let alone 4700 RPM.
He called a friend who is a Mercury master mechanic and his parts supplier. Apparently the injectors may just need some run time to seat properly and rails to break in (the point I was at yesterday). This makes sense as I was thinking yesterday, if the motor runs great hot, something is heating to close an open seal. I also know sometimes fuel seals take a while to pick up enough fuel to become engorged and seal up tight. Going to take her out for a run tomorrow, they recommended at least 3-4 hours at 4K RPM my boats optimum cruising speed.
Or I could be all wet, need to forgo the chicken and find at least a goat.
Any thoughts?
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08-16-2015, 06:51 PM #12Junior Member
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Closing in I hope. Took her out today noticed an interesting anomaly:
Block PSI 33% lower than starboard running.
Running temp off 10 + Degrees at 4000k RPM. Both engines pinned running RPM for RPM but PSI/Temp anomolies remain consistent through the RPM range.
While I was watching the Tach, should have been watching the temp. Apparently these should be at least 130 degree stats (allegedly).
Noted that while tach position varied by RPM the real culprit was the Temp. Anything above 114 ran great anything below like whale poo.
Tested the stats at home by old boil test. 1 opened at 105 the other still temp unknown however clearly substantially higher. To that end new stats will be installed tomorrow. Gonna swap the operation temp sensor just in case (31 bucks not even worth the time). Apparently temp conditions greatly influence ECM decisions on air, fuel and timing which would explain a lot of issues.
I think it's time to put the machete back in the sheath and spare the live stock. Please guys and gals feel free to chime in.
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08-16-2015, 08:52 PM #13
no such thing as break-in time for the injectors..... either they spray perfect out of the box or something is wrong with them..... Idling like poo and runs better on top.....I'd take a closer look at the reeds if everything else checks out.... and I would do a compression and leakdown test.....
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors". Plato .
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08-17-2015, 03:00 AM #14Junior Member
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Thanks again! Will do tomorrow! I have to tell you, very disturbing to find out that there is a retired marine mechanic (come to find out an "outboard guru") has been driving past
me in my marina for three weeks now watching me wrestle with this thing (cowlings off tools everywhere) and not offered a single hint. As a " canyon jockey" who runs 90+ miles into the N. Atlantic and stops to help everyone, I am greatly dissappointed in the lack of altruism in this guy. Yet a complete stranger on the Internet has been more help. I wonder if I retire from my job I get to step over an old timer, laying on the ground clutching his chest, on my way out to fish because I am "retired". I couldn't! SAD!
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08-17-2015, 01:03 PM #15
Take your reed blocks and swap them and see if the problem follows the reeds...you can't inspect them because you can't see where the rubber is missing in the corners of the blocks with the reeds installed.
Go Time
2003XS GS 225 Promax/ 260 / 280
26 Regulator twin 250 EFI
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