15 400R news

[Scream And Fly]

Testing number 2

[noli]

.

I think that CRT will have a 2-stroke 530HP motor sooner than a Verado 4 strokes will

[BUZZIN' DOZEN]

if you really want to go fast, for only about $15k per motor more, you can supercharge them and get another 20mph!

In a quiet little dusty old shop, this one's gettin' it's twenty and then some!

[AZMIDLYF]

Yes, that's my 30. It has a pair of Sterling 588s/800hp on 91 octane. The motors were $42k apiece, plus $7k apiece for CMI exhaust. So basically the cost is $50k per complete motor, plus $35k per complete ASD7 (I think that's what Rik is getting for them now, includes trans. and steering). So the total cost for engines and drives is $170k. The only thing that doesn't include is the tie-bar. Though that cost is a lot more than a pair of 400Rs, when you look at the total boat price, including trailer, the extra $120k is well worth it imo. I know that the brand new 318 w/ 400Rs cost somewhere around the $350k mark, so if you're already spending that much money, isn't it worth spending $470k instead to have another 45mph? The difference in performance isn't even comparable. And, if you really want to go fast, for only about $15k per motor more, you can supercharge them and get another 20mph!

I can see your point when building a brand new boat. But if it is a re-rig like this 308, then I think putting these 4 stroke 400Rs on is a no brainer. They will push that thing along at a very solid number even when full of gear and bodies. Don't take this the wrong way either but, an extra 120K or even 30K isn't even in my zip code.

[Chaz]

As anyone who has spent a summer here can tell you , it can be 101 in the shade . With the humidity in the upper 80's during the day and when the dew falls at night , it can get to 98 % . Just about as wet as it can be without raining. Two things the on line calculators leave out is barometric pressure and water grains in the air.
Back when E.T. predictors became the 'tool to have" at the race track , people were walking around spinning the sling psychrometer , reading barometric pressure from an antique aircraft barometer and a mercury ( no relation ) thermometer and then feed all that into a scientific calculator to get corrected density altitude . Today's units are sophisticated quick reading sensors mounted on an antenna at the trailer . There is a beeper sized receiver that guys wear on their belt or keep in their pocket where they can monitor the weather in real time.
I have a Perform Air unit I kept in the boat. Not the best not the worst , just a pretty good indicator of what to expect that day.
Being 1800' or 5000'+ feet in Denver inherently brings along certain conditions with the altitude. But I cant help but think that when your real world density altitude is corrected to say 2100' and our's here in Florida is 2100' that a given motor will put out exactly the same power.
Now , New Joyzee .... I think it's like -800' year round ...

[Rayzor]

In a quiet little dusty old shop, this one's gettin' it's twenty and then some!

I don't doubt for a minute that rig is capable of 180+. I know it ran 177 or 178 at LOTO, so 180+ legged out over a distance seems completely logical. I have no desire to go any faster than I'm already going in my 30, and I honestly rarely run mine over 140 any more. I've seen way to many guys killed through the years to want to keep pushing my luck with big #s. That's why I say I'd be happy now with a boat that topped out at 140 or so.......

[Rayzor]

I can see your point when building a brand new boat. But if it is a re-rig like this 308, then I think putting these 4 stroke 400Rs on is a no brainer. They will push that thing along at a very solid number even when full of gear and bodies. Don't take this the wrong way either but, an extra 120K or even 30K isn't even in my zip code.

Yes, I agree with you. Purchasing a used 30 outboard and repowering with 400Rs is the way to go. But if building a new boat, I think it's well worth the extra $$$ for the inboard power.

[Rayzor]

As anyone who has spent a summer here can tell you , it can be 101 in the shade . With the humidity in the upper 80's during the day and when the dew falls at night , it can get to 98 % . Just about as wet as it can be without raining. Two things the on line calculators leave out is barometric pressure and water grains in the air.
Back when E.T. predictors became the 'tool to have" at the race track , people were walking around spinning the sling psychrometer , reading barometric pressure from an antique aircraft barometer and a mercury ( no relation ) thermometer and then feed all that into a scientific calculator to get corrected density altitude . Today's units are sophisticated quick reading sensors mounted on an antenna at the trailer . There is a beeper sized receiver that guys wear on their belt or keep in their pocket where they can monitor the weather in real time.
I have a Perform Air unit I kept in the boat. Not the best not the worst , just a pretty good indicator of what to expect that day.
Being 1800' or 5000'+ feet in Denver inherently brings along certain conditions with the altitude. But I cant help but think that when your real world density altitude is corrected to say 2100' and our's here in Florida is 2100' that a given motor will put out exactly the same power.
Now , New Joyzee .... I think it's like -800' year round ...

Nowadays, for $350 you can buy a Kestrel race weather monitor that tells you everything in real time - including water grains, which is what the top guys are really tuning off of. With my antique mechanical injected BA deal, I just go off of cda.

[Chaz]

Don't take this the wrong way either but, an extra 120K or even 30K isn't even in my zip code.

Me either , I never let money get in the way of what I wanted to do ..... Peanut butter and jelly sammich's ain't so bad ...

Moroso Motorsports Park Q-16 Track Champion
1994 , 1996 , 1999 , 2005 , 2007

632 Marine Big Block Chevy		Price
See dyno sheet here Complete ready to run 720 HP on pump gas, over 900 ft lb of torque at 3500 rpm, great idle, smooth operation	Merlin heads, JE pistons Comp Cams hydraulic roller Ohio Crankshaft 4340 crank and rods Holley, MSD ignition	$12,095.00

[Chaz]

The top guys just hire "Ace" Manzo ...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KehE8T73x3s

[Double Rigged]

Video looks familiar.

[Double Rigged]

I ran that boat the first day on the water. Has a lot of set up left to do.
Ran good for out of the box. Conditions were not great and we had to run close to the houses and would run out room.
It is a nice package.

[Chaz]

I ran that boat the first day on the water. Has a lot of set up left to do.
Ran good for out of the box. Conditions were not great and we had to run close to the houses and would run out room.
It is a nice package.

Ron , I'm sure you have enough seat time in your 30' cat that you can put your finger on issue's both good and bad a little closer than basic generalized statements ...
If the guy is your friend and you don't want to hurt his feelings , you gave that one up by saying it needs "a lot of setup" .
Were the guys who rigged the motors rookie's and missed the set-up by a mile ?
Since most guys are limited to a prop change and maybe moving the motors up or down and adding a little ballast in the nose , are you saying that it's going to take more than just those basic's ?
Since you didn't post any numbers , "running good out of the box" can we take that to mean it's at least as fast as your 300X motor's ?
Poor condition's ? I hope the guy hanging off the front of that little V hull without a life jacket , don't fall in the water ....
Nice package ? Since no one run's WFO 100% of the time , more realistically would be 10% . I have no doubt that it's a more user friendly package than it's two stroke counterpart the other 90% . Most will learn to accept them over time.

Ohh BTW , the 15" mid section package we started on last week is taking some fixture set-up time. But with three air conditioners blasting in the shop , the condition's are just right ...
I would post picture's , but my customer confidentiality policy prevent's me from doing so ....
See , honesty is the best policy ...

[Double Rigged]

Chaz,
I am not trying to hide anything. Out of respect for the owner of the boat who has yet to drive it I have left it up to him to discuss his boat. He was unable to come down when they ran it. I did post the videos for him to see over on OSO. That is how it made it over here. As you know by posting any numbers all everyone will do is come up with a preconception of what they think of them. There are very few who have had first hand cat set up with them. I know Todd and his guys did not have good luck with their experience. Not sure why but here is what I will share with you guys.

1) The initial runs were made with John Tomlinson and Mike Griffths from Mercury Racing. Mike had brought 3 sets of 33p props.
2) The boat has hydraulic jack plates with no indicators installed yet.
3) Boat has NO water ramps so motor height was not ideal due to getting max height.
4) There was about a 20mph cross wind off the houses and the boat had over 60 gallons of fuel per side.
5) I can tell you "Out of the Box" with normal everyday loads and same motor heights as the previous 300xs package he had it was 15mph faster.
6) When I look at my set up versus what they ran it is not a fair comparison as I have hull pick ups and my motors are very high. I can run a solid 108-109 with 2 people and 60 gallons of fuel in S. FL.

I can also tell you this. It will take more than a stock 300x package to out run what I have driven. They can hold there own but those motors seem to just keep pulling even with a lot of weight in the boat.

The customer is picking up the boat this coming week and it is going up to NY where they will begin there own testing and they have Dewalds coming also. For anyone with a big cat and 300xs power it is a no brainier if you want to go faster and not mess with anything.

I apologize if it looks like we are hiding something. Just trying to post only facts and not speculation.

[JPEROG]

Charlie, if the TNT boys had their hands on then it was set up as good as could be for what they had to deal with. It all boils down to what Dale has said in the past, if you have a big cat and want to go faster, save your money and buy one with inboards. A 32 Doug Wright with 700s will run in the high 130s and a skater isn't that much slower.

Its a big inve$tment to upgrade to 400s and still get whooped by something that cost about the same. I bought a new 30 ft. cat with triple outboards (260s at the time) which was considerably less expensive then buying an inboard version that would perform the same so it made sense. If you were building a new one today with 400s, your budget offers better options for all out performance IMO.

Joe