New 4 stroke race engines?

[Brabender]

Who cares about fuel economy

Oil is at 55 bucks a barrel again

[powerabout]

so remind me the reason for having a 4 stroke in the first place?
not better on fuel
not better on emissions
but if you make then expensive and heavy they can make more power, have I got it right?

[aeneas]

I don't get it! Is a supercharged four stroke better on emissions than an Optimax (dfi)? I would have thought weight is a fuel saver but everything seems to get bigger and heavier... Don't get me wrong here, I like power and the more the merrier but this is just wrong! If four stroke was the way to go (I don't think so) then they should have gone with the Hartley V8!



http://youtu.be/RUKMnl6Hqw8

http://youtu.be/PM80wUW6oxY

V8 Cylinder Engine
Designed and built in partnership with John Hartley. This engine is one of the smallest and lightest V8's available weighing only 90kg. It uses 2 x modified Suzuki hayabusa top ends, billet crank, Carrillo rods, CP pistons, Kent camshafts, 4 stage dry sump pump, 7075 billet crankcases, etc. Built and tested in house at Holeshot Racing.

Available in naturally aspirated 2800cc (400hp), 2900cc (450hp), 3000cc (500hp) and 2800cc twin turbocharged versions in 3 stages of 600hp, 800hp, 1000hp.
Intrestning how they skipped the 600hp version in the pricing and "only" offer stage 1 up to 800hp and stage 2 up to 1000hp.
Prices and info: http://www.holeshot-racing.co.uk/ind...nes/h1-v8-busa

From Wikipedia: Scott Gillman was initially entered into the [2012] Abu Dhabi GP as driving a BaBa hull, powered by a Hartley V8 four stroke engine based on a Suzuki Hayabusa motorcycle engine. He switched just before qualifying however to a Mercury 2.5 litre two stroke after feeling that the V8 was too powerful for the BaBa hull.

That's more racing!!!

[powerabout]

forget HP compare torque at an rpm and you can see why the hartley is useless on a champ boat until they get a 6 speed gearbox

[aeneas]

If they use superchargers on a Verado they could use turbos on a Hartley and map it to give torque where it is needed and still save a couple of hundred pounds in weight..?

[xb03fs]

phone put on wrong thread

[Double Rigged]

I watched the race on the computer and have more of a cynical take. Anyone that has run boats for a long time knows that is there is NO way that motor was faster than the 280's weighing 600lbs making 300hp. I think it was set for 300hp during qualifying and it did not fair well. I think for the race they turned up the boost to make at least 350hp or more and that is why the boat was so fast even if negative trim. I know for a fact that when Johnny from TNT was running the 1350's in the Gasse boat they were also experimenting with the now new race 1650hp motors and there were teams running them with others having no knowledge. I think this motor is over a year away in a HP version but you will see a production version of 350hp on 89 octance this feb at the boat show.
I also agree with Rayzor the fuel MPG will not be as good I personally hope that come up with something that is not heavy!

[timmc6]

I read on the xcat site that they give the fazza team team a weight break to balance out,

[2jz]

The 280 motor is at a clear disadvantage even to a detuned forced induction verado making the same 280hp. IMO its not a fair race running normally aspirated motor against forced induction. Where the NA motor lacks in power and torque the force induction supercharger motor in there with instant power and torque. If this keeps up teams with 2stroke motor will have no choice but to get four stroke motor keep up with the competition. Or have motor regulations set in place like nhra or NASCAR keep everyone on same playing field

[powerabout]

I wonder when a stock outboard will be heavier than a similar HP sterndrive, cant be far away? ( Seven of course)
I guess it will open the market up for V8 etec marketed as a lightweight product.lol

PS Best way to kill a class is change the engine ( or stop supply of race only blocks that that class used)

[powerabout]

I thought that class was running emission compliant 200xs engines?

[Toffen]

Hi,

Regarding Verado and fuel. The first edition pre 2009 used lots of fuel. However, due to new internals, the second edition use much less fuel. Whatever people say, my 350 sci use 4,67 mpg at 4,000 rpms and 50 mph on a 2,800 lbs 25 feet hull. At 3,500 rpms and 45 mph it runs 5,2 mpg. My 1999 model Promax 300 SVS used 50% more and was 6 mph slower on wot. Thats the fact on my hull.

Cheers Toffen

[2Fast2Pass]

No matter the why or why not's, 2 strokes are a dying breed. Just like the MX bikes. Was hilarious when a few weeks ago I was sitting with Mike Mullins and the conversation came up about the NLA 2.5 parts from Mercury. He wanted to see for himself so he called Merc HP and asked about getting a replacement S3000 block. The person on the phone said " ummm do you have a serial # for that?" Mike said no, its a 2.5 block for a S3000, 280, etc. The guy then says " are you talking about an outboard? I laughed and said did you call Advance Auto??? He then puts Mike on hold and came back with " no I am sorry but those are NLA " That's the short version but it was a very entertaining conversation!!! Hard to believe that the person didn't know what a 2.5 was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[powerabout]

Sleds seem to be happy with their 2 strokes...
Japs dont dictate in that business

[Rayzor]

Hi,

Regarding Verado and fuel. The first edition pre 2009 used lots of fuel. However, due to new internals, the second edition use much less fuel. Whatever people say, my 350 sci use 4,67 mpg at 4,000 rpms and 50 mph on a 2,800 lbs 25 feet hull. At 3,500 rpms and 45 mph it runs 5,2 mpg. My 1999 model Promax 300 SVS used 50% more and was 6 mph slower on wot. Thats the fact on my hull.

Cheers Toffen

That would make perfect sense, as my friend bought his 275 Verado when they were first released. From the data you provided, it sounds as though you're Verado is still burning more fuel than a 300XS though, as a standard PM300 burns almost double the fuel of a 300XS, not 50% more.