hard start problem. have spark and fuel. flooded? carb issue?

[redemn93]

hi guys. so i have a good running 2.0L 150...when it starts. once it starts, its good for the day or even a couple days. are these needle and seat carbs? never had them apart if so. my experience with skis points me straight to needles and seats. any other suggestions?

i also pulled the top 4 plugs after trying to start it for a few minutes. am i getting water in the cylinders? i recently replaced the head gaskets. used OE gaskets, shaved the heads flat removing as little material as possible, and cleaned the block surface well before reinstalling. i very lightly coated the gaskets with non hardening gasket sealant as a few guys here suggested. everything torqued to spec.

thanks for any help guys.

edit: last time i ran the motor i lightly cleaned the plugs real quick sandpaper to see if it helped the situation. haven't had it on the water since i did that.

[j_martin]

Looks like you're getting fuel, at least in some of them. The "choke" system on these actually just dribbles extra fuel into the bottom 4 carb bases, so those plugs are probably normal in appearance.

Have you changed anything in your starting "dance"? Engine level, primer squeeze, enricher time before and during cranking. engine level, etc.

Another possibility. A slight drag in the starter will be hard to detect by ear, but may cause a weak spark. That could be caused by the starter itself, cables, connections, or battery.

[redemn93]

im doing everything the same as i always have. motor used to fire right up with just a few primer ball squeezes. ive tried opening the throttle, pulling the plugs and letting the cylinders "air out", etc.

starter spins nice and fast but i have a spare i can throw on to check out.

[redemn93]

after some light reading i decided to go out and remove the idle stabalizer. fired right up almost instantly. make sense?

is it safe to use the boat without it a couple times before i set the timing? i dont own a timing light and dont know how to do it. ive never had to set timing before. id have to read up on it and buy a light before i can do it. no time today but want to go out for a ride. hasnt been run in a few months except on the hose. new baby almost here and thatll really dampen my boat time.

[j_martin]

Yep, makes sense. Throw it in the chit can. That module is supposed to advance the timing a bit if idle speed falls below a thresh hold, I think 600 rpm. If it has a high speed advance, it would advance the timing from 23° to 26° at 5000 rpm, then drop it back to 20° at 5500. None of that is important, or even useful.

You can safely run it as is if it was reasonably in time to start with. Now, set it up your link-n-sync max timing to 25°, and all else by the book. (idle timing, throttle pickup, etc.)

Sorry I didn't see this earlier, or someone else picked up on it. Hope you didn't miss out on a day of boating.

[redemn93]

no problem and thanks for the help. i've been fighting this for months but it would eventually start and then be good for a few days. now it just wouldnt start at all since friday. i ending up going out anyway to try it out. i saw where others have. i did notice the top end power wasnt quite what it used to be but would still crawl up to the rpm.

i also finally got ahold of a good water cooled regulator and my max rpm is 5400 trimmed out just before cavitation with just me and 1/3 tank of fuel. id like to see 56-5700 with those conditions. would setting the timing help that or time to play with props? running a 20 pitch with a cup. don't know what series prop. came off my dads old formula that he had tweaked just right for his setup. this is a fishing boat so not looking for all out. i just want it to be right and perform as well as it can in its stock form. get the cup removed?

so if stabilizer was flaking out it could cause a hard starting problem?

ive never set timing or done the link and sink. i have the seloc manual and the steps are in there. i guess time to buy a timing light and go at this slowly. would hate to screw it up. so follow the manual except for max timing is to be set at 25 deg. ive seen some people say 23.

thanks again j.

[something2do]

My 2.0 150 is an '84 and it always gave me a hard time starting, even without the idle stabilizer. I now have the process down to what seems to work most of the time. Mine won't begin to start if it is not trimmed down at least level with the boat. (our ramps around here in Texas make that a bit risky with the low water levels right now- so sometimes I have to float off the trailer a ways to start it up to deal with the skeg clearance)

I trim the motor down, squeeze the priming bulb until hard, then push in my enricher for about 15 seconds. I found that this works better if I hit the enricher while holding open the throttle, not sure why. Then, it usually will fire for me within 2-3 tries.

Sent you a PM with the timing documentation I used to set my timing, but if it runs good once you are started, I would let it be.

[wellcraft17]

I have a 85 2.0 150 that has always had the timing set at 18 deg. At cranking speed with all the stock electronics on it. I removed the idle stab about 6 mo ago per some recommendations and what I'm reading here I can up the timing to 23-25 deg. Without any problems, am I correct in thinking this?

[j_martin]

no problem and thanks for the help. i've been fighting this for months but it would eventually start and then be good for a few days. now it just wouldnt start at all since friday. i ending up going out anyway to try it out. i saw where others have. i did notice the top end power wasnt quite what it used to be but would still crawl up to the rpm.

i also finally got ahold of a good water cooled regulator and my max rpm is 5400 trimmed out just before cavitation with just me and 1/3 tank of fuel. id like to see 56-5700 with those conditions. would setting the timing help that or time to play with props? running a 20 pitch with a cup. don't know what series prop. came off my dads old formula that he had tweaked just right for his setup. this is a fishing boat so not looking for all out. i just want it to be right and perform as well as it can in its stock form. get the cup removed?

so if stabilizer was flaking out it could cause a hard starting problem?

ive never set timing or done the link and sink. i have the seloc manual and the steps are in there. i guess time to buy a timing light and go at this slowly. would hate to screw it up. so follow the manual except for max timing is to be set at 25 deg. ive seen some people say 23.

thanks again j.

Props are a whole new topic. There's way more to it than you understand, judging from your comments.

Yes, the idle stabilizer can cause all kinds of problems, including WOT grenade if it should accidentally ground the bias line.

I mis-quoted slightly on the timing. On my XR-4, stock timing is 22° and the module moves it to 25° at 5000 rpm, then to 19° st 5500 rpm, effectually stone walling it. My timing it set to 25° without it. Just glancing at the book, a 2.0L 150 should probably be initially set to about 22° and tune from there.

Throw the Seloc manual in the same chit can the idle stabilizer went to. Get the Mercury/Mariner manual for your engine. (eBay is a good source)
Link and sync involves a depth gauge setup in #1 cylinder to establish the timing indicator location. There are dial indicator setups. I did it with a digital caliper/depth gauge and a home made adapter made from a scrap spark plug.

On a vertical reed engine, torque rapidly falls off after 5500-6000 rpm, so you don't gain anything by going for more rpms.

[redemn93]

well, issue is still there. thought it was fixed after removing the idle stabilizer.

i think its loading up. primer bulb pumps nice and hard, fuel is clean, i have spark. compression is an even 120 across the board. i turn the key and sometimes it'll cough once or twice and that's it. time to pull the carbs? when it runs, it runs great and will start up fine for a few days. is it possible its a reed issue?