Kid Drowns while in Police custody.

[vnemous]

Also since it's a Motor vehicle violation you have no rights, at least in NJ. Again I agree none of us here know what happened and can only speculate.

[Ron V]

Tony, it's been awhile since I got 100% on both the federal and state constitution tests in school, but help me with something. Is an arrest the same thing as a trial and conviction? Didn't think so. What you're implying is that they can be convicted based on observations without actual physical evidence (breath/blood test)? Never heard of anyone being tried and convicted of DUI without a BAC on record. I think there are some variations of "impaired" where it may not be an actual DUI but I don't know all the loopholes as they really don't concern me.

I think here in IL they can basically strap you down and force a blood sample now. Gotta be a reason why they felt it necessary to get that on their side.

[milkdud]

Ill repeat,

What he was arrested for is not really the problem. Not for us to judge honestly at this point. Thats between the state and the arrested. We all should agree we don't want dunk people driving cars/boats and possibly killing others. Your dumb to think its ok to get hammered and expect to get off when other peoples lives and yours are at stake. Was he drunk? We don't know. Honestly it does not matter. If they find out he was sober from the autopsy then he is still dead isn't he?

-------------
Now focus on this.

The manner in which this officer transported a person in handcuffs is very much open to public criticism if it comes out that policy or the officers oversight caused a death.

1. If the the department policy caused this then it needs to be addressed
2. If the officer caused this then he needs to be with accordingly by his superiors.
3. If it was an unforeseeable event then we there is nothing that can be done.

IMO its going to be 1 or 2. Or a combination of both.

C

[tony97gt]

Tony, it's been awhile since I got 100% on both the federal and state constitution tests in school, but help me with something. Is an arrest the same thing as a trial and conviction? Didn't think so. What you're implying is that they can be convicted based on observations without actual physical evidence (breath/blood test)? Never heard of anyone being tried and convicted of DUI without a BAC on record. I think there are some variations of "impaired" where it may not be an actual DUI but I don't know all the loopholes as they really don't concern me.

I think here in IL they can basically strap you down and force a blood sample now. Gotta be a reason why they felt it necessary to get that on their side.

Ron, yes that is what I'm saying. If you've never heard of anybody being tried and convicted on a DUI without breath results then you should go spend a day or two in your county courthouse. It happens all day everyday across the country. Again, the standard for probable cause on scene to make and arrest is lower than the standard for a conviction at a trial. So with regard to your statement above, no they are not the same. If Florida we can take blood by force (whatever means reasonably necessary) after a search warrant is secured.

[racerx]

So Tony if pulled over its best not to say nothing refuse FST and don't blow, so now you lose your license a year but you don't need to go to school pay a lawyer lose your license for 6 months anyways and its going to save you 5 plus grand is that how it works?

[tony97gt]

I'm not going to fall into the trap of giving legal advice on a public forum. Nor would a blanket statement be applicable to each scenario someone reading this thread might find themselves in. Best advice is if you're at the point you even have to consider any of your questions, find a ride home or toss out the anchor and sleep it off.

FYI- I've gotten a guilty verdict from a jury on someone who refused FSE and breath test.

[racerx]

That's what I thought1 its good to ask questions to someone who rights tickets for a living thanks for your input and hope that skaters running good, did you ever put the ramps in it when I did my 21 with twins it made a big difference on water pressure ..

[tony97gt]

That's what I thought1 its good to ask questions to someone who rights tickets for a living thanks for your input and hope that skaters running good, did you ever put the ramps in it when I did my 21 with twins it made a big difference on water pressure ..

Not writing too many tickets these days unless someone really needs it. Skater is in dry dock right now, had some delaminating on the bottom of a sponson and snapped/twisted the 5" extension that was on my 15" driveshaft. So...looking for a 20" shaft and boat is at glass shop getting repaired. Small spot where gel coat came off at high speed. Other than that, those diamond boys build some angry motors that run like raped apes. Ramps helped out quite a bit with more water.

[Mr. Demeanor]

In Illinois, unless the law has changed since I was an LEO there, your are arrested for DUI based on observations of the officer (driving, interview, sobriety tests). When you are back at the police station and you blow over the legal limit, you are charged with an additional crime of being over the legal BAC. If you blow under, your still under arrest and charged with DUI.
You can be under the legal BAC and still be arrested, charged, and convicted of DUI. I have seen young kids completely hammered with a very low BAC. It doesnt happen often . In Illinois, DUI and being over the legal limit are two separate charges.

I know some think it's all about the numbers and I agree. About 10,000 people die in drunk driving related crashes every year. Think about that number. Thats triple the number of our service members killed in Afghanistan since 2001! Over 100,000 American civilians have died from drunk driving during the same time period as the war. The good news is the numbers are down. I dont know if its enforcement, safer cars, better education, etc. probably all of the above.

[tony97gt]

In Illinois, unless the law has changed since I was an LEO there, your are arrested for DUI based on observations of the officer (driving, interview, sobriety tests). When you are back at the police station and you blow over the legal limit, you are charged with an additional crime of being over the legal BAC. If you blow under, your still under arrest and charged with DUI.
You can be under the legal BAC and still be arrested, charged, and convicted of DUI. I have seen young kids completely hammered with a very low BAC. It doesnt happen often . In Illinois, DUI and being over the legal limit are two separate charges.

I know some think it's all about the numbers and I agree. About 10,000 people die in drunk driving related crashes every year. Think about that number. Thats triple the number of our service members killed in Afghanistan since 2001! Over 100,000 American civilians have died from drunk driving during the same time period as the war. The good news is the numbers are down. I dont know if its enforcement, safer cars, better education, etc. probably all of the above.

Interesting info on Ill DUI law. To be exact, in Florida approximately 10,839 people will die each year from DUI crashes, or one every 50 minutes. Car crashes are the leading cause of death for teenagers, and one in three teenage car crashes are alcohol related. This isn't even bringing the boating aspect into play. I know people say that LEO's are screwing up people's lives by arresting them for DUI, but your life is much better off with a misdemeanor (no pun intended) DUI charge than a felony DUI Manslaughter charge. Pay an attorney, spend a night in jail, do your classes and community service, and move on with your life. Or the alternative, if you're lucky to survive an alcohol related crash, spend 10 years in prison. I've been hit by a drunk, had friends killed by drunks, had friends die drunk (one was decapitated, killed herself and an innocent driver on the highway), and taken lots of drunks to jail. Been on midnights for nearly 13 years so I'm probably a little biased from witnessing so much death and destruction at the hands of mostly good people who made bad decisions.

[milkdud]

Missouri has chosen to sweep it under the carpet. SHOCKER!!! :shock:


The family is looking for federal assistance to investigate at this point. The Gov of Iowa and Senator Grassley say they will help if possible to move this up the ladder.


http://whotv.com/2014/09/23/grassley...gson-drowning/


http://videos.venturebeat.com/family...eath-518411457


Officer on phone with supervisor seems like a winner. He lost the SD card for the camera recording as well!:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZTjM5ZGkOU

[olboatman]

This sounds more like law enforcement chose to sweep it under to CTA!!!! Gary

[pyro]

They protected and served the sh!+ out of him.

[milkdud]

Just a quick update on this case.


Special Prosecutor Grellner asked to step away from the investigation after 8 months on the case. IMO, I think she just didn't want to be the person coming down on the Missouri State Patrol and got out of the way...


http://m.newstribune.com/news/2015/m.../#.VQdhm8Y-CV4

[olboatman]

Thanks milkdud------ One f---ed up case! Gary