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  1. #301
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    Well now that sounds interesting!

    DB

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLIMAX View Post
    I will start a new thread shortly with all the concept computer work along with photos of the actual process. I along with Doug Wright are designing and building an all new pleasure design that will be capable of running either a single or twins. I personally will be running it with the Big 8.I have waited a long time to do this boat. The boat looks fantastic. The computer work is done. The bed is made and the foam is being set into place. This is set to be a new mark for an outboard pleasure boat. Special thanks to Doug and his son, and to Gordon for the power . I will post shortly . Thanks Rick
    Has this happened yet? Any updates available?

  3. #303
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    Thanks for asking. Doug has moved to a new building and CNC was being set up. The bed for the hull was made and the foam has been set. All of the computer work is complete except for the dash area. I have been at this boat building thing for a long time and it takes a lot to get me really excited but this boat does. We have a lot going on right now with the record attempt, the new Top Fuel boat and now this. It will be Avery busy new year to say the least, Thanks Rick

  4. #304
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    After going through couple cnc setups of our own I could only imagine how exciting it must be to set one up of this caliber. I wish you guys much success and can't wait to see something new of this size! Any chance there could be a video of it being cut? That would be awesome!

  5. #305
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    well back to uim and Bob W i spoke with him today for about 2 hours on engineering , liabilities , legalities , designs , study's proven. study's wished for . who,s helping.. who,s not.. who can. about on all capsules and canopy,s lawsuits won and lost
    the best thing to do is not complicate and communicate Bob is easy to talk to
    the main thing we all want to see is improvement !!!
    any fatality's slow progress across the board
    and no one was grandfathered in,, that option was never on the table
    a lot a money is being spent in research to protect everyone on both sides but any lawyer can work the angles he is being paid to represent
    Last edited by afr; 11-24-2014 at 07:16 PM.

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  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by afr View Post
    well back to uim and Bob W i spoke with him today for about 2 hours on engineering , liabilities , legalities , designs , study's proven. study's wished for . who,s helping.. who,s not.. who can. about on all capsules and canopy,s lawsuits won and lost
    the best thing to do is not complicate and communicate Bob is easy to talk to
    the main thing we all want to see is improvement !!!
    any fatality's slow progress across the board
    and no one was grandfathered in,, that option was never on the table
    a lot a money is being spent in research to protect everyone on both sides but any lawyer can work the angles he is being paid to represent
    We have been dealing with Bob Wartinger and this issue for years, on the phone, years of emails, and we are done with it, Sure he's easy to talk with, he's a "motivational speaker"... that's his job!!

    Boat's Have been grandfathered,..,. yes... of course he's going to say "there was NO grandfathering"..we can prove that, boats have set records , won UIM world championships with NO UIM registered cockpits...for decades.., .. its in black and white,... there's a mile of examples... he can word up the UIM lawyer with his motivational talk

    Bob will shortly get his chance to explain, Grandfathering and boats running without a UIM registered cell etc to a judge ... let's see if the judge buys it

    he couldn't even be bothered to reply to an British engineer ( former Donald Campbell , Bluebird K7 engineer)who wrote an engineering paper on this issue, that was run past an engineering university first, explaining the new rules are untenable... no reply AT ALL, Head of H1 Hydroplane Safety and Engineering doesn't agree with Bob and has written a paper and presented to Bob,

    I know another guy chasing a water speed record .. he has emailed Bob many times,,.. but now Bob can't even be bothered to reply to his questions on this issue,.....nice work from somebody who holds a position on the sports world governing body...excellent communication skills...

    When you have wasted decades of your time and hundreds of thousands of your OWN money, and Know the FULL story....you might have a VERY a different opinion...

    We have built 2 unlimited hydroplanes to the UIM rules twice over the past decade to, Bob has changed the rules twice with no consideration to our time, money and efforts to meet the UIM rules that Bob set out. We know only to well who's "NOT helping"

    We could start building another boat tomorrow... to the current rules..... and guess what..... Bob could change them a week before we run, to make it illegal... and give NO consideration to the fact we have made a boat to the rules... he's done it twice to our team now.... would you like to gamble at least 250 thousand dollars and 5 years work he won't do it again????

    Time he spent some of his time and money
    Last edited by Warby Motorsport; 11-27-2014 at 12:36 PM.

  7. #307
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    yes i understand we did discuss the British engineers work as well as the rest of the teams
    i wish i had the answer the only thing i really took away from our conversation ,, was he was not the only one making the decisions theres a team of 16 people who call the shots
    i hope it all works out for u guys and everyone can come to a compromise that works for all sides involved
    when i was going to try my attempt on the electric record i didnt have the red tape at all the competition was helping in my design development,s i did find out later they( my competitors) where sand bagging and more speed ready to re-claim the record
    then i never got the funding to go forward
    maybe a court case will open some doors

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  8. #308
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    I did notice that farcical international race in australia where only one builder had a uim cert for cells
    What a fudge
    That put the uim is in bad place

  9. #309
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    In 2003 I shipped my boat “Aussie Spirit” form the USA to Australia with a cockpit that conformed to the UIM rules of the day, however a few weeks later the Australian Power Boat council, led by Tony Walsh, (now a UIM contractor,"Fastwater") ran to the UIM asking for reinforced cockpit rules to be introduced for WWSR boats.
    At the meeting in Singapore the UIM agreed and in their haste they adopted the 3000 Newton Meter rule as used by outboard tunnel boats and similar and as a result, even though my molly chrome steel cockpit was stronger and safer by far, it did not comply with the layup schedule in the rules and the boat was “Outlawed” by the UIM.
    Hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of work was sent down the drain by a rule that may have been OK for a tunnel boat but would have done little in the way of protection for a WWSR boat. The boat was shipped back to the USA to rot in my garage.
    We at Warby Motor sport decided to build another boat for my son David to run for the record and a 3000 Newton Meter cockpit was und construction and rear completion when the IUM again changed the rules and required a 5000 Newton Meter cockpit. Our 3000 N.M. cockpit was scrapped and another new one was built in excess of the rules.
    David built his test sample and had it checked out and the results were around 8000 Newton Meter, a figure above that required by the UIM at that time.
    The actual cockpit was constructed, using additional layups and we estimated that we had constructed a 10,000 Newton Meter cockpit , double that required by the UIM.
    The cockpit was registered and numbered with the APBA in 2011 and we were told at the time that it was also registered with the UIM, the latter being not so due to no fault of ours.
    Then came the change for 2014, Whartinger and Stanleys “Engineered” cockpits for boats doing kilo speed runs over 150 mph.
    All you now have to do is find an engineer that is not worried risking his business and associated liabilities , who will come up with calculations for a cockpit that will survive a crash 15% above the speed you are aiming for and have UIM “Reviewers” approve it. So far , engineers that have been approached will not touch the subject because of the danger associated with a WWSR run as they fear lawsuits if their figures prove incorrect in a crash. My legal advisors point out that not only could the engineers be on the wrong end of a law suit but the “Reviewer/s” who approve the engineers calculations, on behalf of the UIM, probably would facing a law suit also.

    Is the UIM ready to pay out millions in a case of a failure of a reinforced cockpit that they reviewed and approved, it appears that Engineers are not.

    We note that the “Engineered” reinforced cockpit rules only apply to UIM speed record attempts by boats running in excess of 150mph.
    When Bob Whartinger was asked why the rules did not apply to boats running in circuit races the answer was “We just did not discuss it”…. an amazing statement by the UIM safety expert.
    So as the rule applies, you can run a boat at any speed in excess if 150mph in a race with a “Non Engineered” cockpit, but enter that same boat in a record attempt and you WILL need an “Engineered” cockpit.
    The facts are Unlimited Hydros, Grand Prix Hydros and Blown Alcohol Displacement boats are already exceeding the 150mph mark in circuit races and the UIM and the reviewers know that and will not touch them because those boats would cease to exist as UIM classes and UIM makes money off them even though they know that circuit races are more dangerous than speed runs where you do not have other competitors or chopped up water to contend with. The rule is a farce. “Rules for some and not for others”.

    A short history of the UIM reinforced cockpit rules.

    Unlimited hydros run for their World Championships in Doha each year, NO registered UIM cockpit builder in sight for the class, results homologated by the UIM.
    Peters and May Unlimited Hydro sets a World record a Coniston, UK, recently, NO registered UIM cockpit builder in sight, record homologated by the UIM.
    Grand Prix Hydros have run UIM World Championships for over ten years, NO registered UIM cockpit builders in sight, results homologated by the UIM.
    UIM contractor, Fastwater, ran World Championships for Blown Alcohol Displacement boats and six liter boats in Australia for years without their cockpit builders being on the UIM approved list and when I, with my legal advisers help, pointed this out to the APBA, the UIM grand fathered all the cockpits competing, virtually overnight {I guess they had to protect their Contractor).
    The only problem was that the cockpit in the boat that won, was not on the approved list that was hurriedly grand fathered, still the UIM homologated the results.

    The bottom line is, the UIM makes lots of rules and does not enforce them, does not check their approved cockpit records and homologates the event results regardless and the can “Grand Father” boats and builders when it suits them. ………..Just rules for some but not for others.
    We are also aware of many other rules that have not been enforced on some other classes of boats but the results have still been homologated.
    There are those that wonder why the 150mph mark was set for "Engineered" cockpits by Wartinger and his "Yes Men" but look at the speed he set in an outboard (176+mph) then figure how hard he just made it for someone to beat that record and the mind will figure it out.
    Did I tell you that word is that he will review all your figures and say yes or ho to them.

    We at Warby Motorsport only want the same treatment as those that were grandfathered, that built cockpits to the rule of the day at the time of construction.

    I hope that we can achieve the results that we seek and further legal steps by us will not be necessary, to achieve parity and sanity.
    Cheers,
    Ken
    Ken W


  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by afr View Post
    yes i understand we did discuss the British engineers work as well as the rest of the teams
    i wish i had the answer the only thing i really took away from our conversation ,, was he was not the only one making the decisions theres a team of 16 people who call the shots
    i hope it all works out for u guys and everyone can come to a compromise that works for all sides involved
    when i was going to try my attempt on the electric record i didnt have the red tape at all the competition was helping in my design development,s i did find out later they( my competitors) where sand bagging and more speed ready to re-claim the record
    then i never got the funding to go forward
    maybe a court case will open some doors
    Yeah... 16 people, All Bob Wartingers lap dog's.....like the nodding dogs you see in the back of a car, Now he wants to hide behind 15 others.... ALL do what Bob wants... One is a Jetski rider, NONE have ANY experience with crashes over 200MPH, including Bob,.. just "theories".... the head of H1 Unlimited Hydroplane Safety and Engineering Doug Ford ( who has experience in this field) quite rightly pointed this out to Bob Wartinger

    What engineering company is going to give you a piece of paper to say "yes this will be ok at 150 to 500MPH"...???, Even then it has to pass Bob's and his nodding dog's, are they qualified to be questioning other engineers????,.... so why even go to an engineer in the first place

    if safety was the REAL issue, he would of placed the same rules to circuit racing boats that run at speeds above 150MPH, when you have 6 to 8 boats side by side, in less than perfect water after a few laps,... yet in Bob's words "was not discussed"..... you would think having more boats on the water racing at speed above 150MPH would be more far more dangerous...I mean they ARE exceeding the speeds he considers you need a newly engineered cockpit right??..... Not in Bob's eyes,... if he brought these rules into circuit racing, it could affect the $$$$ the UIM get's off their Promoters, , so that was nicely brushed aside in the name of safety right..


    Their are clearly been rules for some, and not for others, it's BLACK and WHITE...we are sure a judge will soon see this,

    The UIM have made a absolute dogs breakfast of the UIM cockpit rules, and rules in General.... they will be held accountable for their incompetence this time

    I feel sorry for any team trying to break Bob Wartingers outboard record via the UIM... I really do....and good luck to you!!..........it might be hard to sell "motivational lectures" if you can't say your " the worlds fastest" right.... and rules could be fixed to suit your personal agenda.... a clear conflict of interest
    Last edited by Warby Motorsport; 11-28-2014 at 01:23 AM.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerabout View Post
    I did notice that farcical international race in australia where only one builder had a uim cert for cells
    What a fudge
    That put the uim is in bad place
    Yes, we brought this to the UIM attention, While UIM were busy preaching their rules to our team , everyone else were breaking these rules at the same time, right in front of us.... we only wanted the same treatment everyone else was getting, if we didn't it raise the issue at the time, it would of been Business as usual for the UIM, solid proof they don't follow their own rules, and don't enforce them when it suits, as per every other UIM event ever held in Australia in the past,
    Last edited by Warby Motorsport; 11-28-2014 at 02:40 AM.

  12. #312
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    yes we touched on that as well the fact that no engineer is going to give a safety rating but they should be able to use the term survival rate

    one more item for food for thought
    back in 99/2000 when i was working on my sudden stop device / ssd , i was working with nascar and we where doing crash study,s
    i brought in a neurosurgeon and he squashed all the head and neck devices as it only took 5 g,s to cause internal injures yet nascar was able to sign off on all them as safe for use because the good out weighed the bad
    Last edited by afr; 11-28-2014 at 09:34 AM.

    https://www.facebook.com/scott.steffe


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  13. #313
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    Dave/Ken,
    I got your email and will follow through next week. Just been busy with the holiday and company.
    Thanks,
    Chris
    13' Biel tunnel AKA "Flight Risk"
    13" Modified Yamaha V4 - 101 mph

    21' Paramount
    Mercury 300 Promax

  14. #314
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    Man this whole Cockpit thing makes me tired just reading it. I have had the privilege to wrk on and lay up on some craft that are on the cutting edge. No I was not the brilliant one that came up with the layup schedule for something that flys this high and goes to speeds I truly can not conceive , but my layup was good enough for them.

  15. #315
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    It just seems to me that if we are exceeding the total requirements for IHBA who has definitely seen there fair share of violent crashes, and the actual cage meets Nhra specs who have had a few crashes too we ought to be able to run this outboard without any question. There is always a risk and we know it. I think everyone will know if a record falls.as I have stated before it may be time for something new. Thanks Rick George

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