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  1. #121
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    Reggies #76, what beautiful boat.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old fiberglass View Post
    Almost everyone who was a racer or into old race boats of this era knows the name and has seen or raced one. It must be the most copied tunnel boat of the era and a standard that folks tried to meet or beat.
    Scotti, Velden and Seebold all drove Molinaris before building their own tunnel hulls.
    While I may not go as far as to say they copied Molinari, it would be quite apparent that their Molinari experience obviously influenced them towards what worked well so that they were not starting from scratch. Here in Canada Lorne Pinel made a couple a boats in the early 70's that were very Molinari like - as in the picture below of Tom Wood driving The Wasp #S-7 in 1971.
    While it would pretty difficult to put a number on just how many outboard tunnel hulls Molinari made, I wonder how many were identical.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by peterse90; 02-18-2013 at 06:50 PM.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterse90 View Post
    Scotti, Velden and Seebold all drove Molinaris before building their own tunnel hulls.

    While it would pretty difficult to put a number on just how many outboard tunnel hulls Molinari made, I wonder how many were identical.
    The first comment is a very good point !! The bet very few hulls were identical. Racers of the day have said they were all a little different handling wise.

  4. #124
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    None of the builders i ever met had the ability or wish to build two alike. They were always two steps in front on the thinking level and three steps behind on the ability------------really was a hit and miss affair with all of them.
    You could give anyone you care to mention----any boat----- and say ---"copy that" -----five will get you five hundred that it couldn't be done.
    Put it down to how a chippy [carpenter--boatbuilder--joiner whatever you want to call him] was feeling that particular morning or afternoon.
    If his good lady had been kind to him a short while earlier, you could get one hell of a good boat that day-----if she had been a stone bitch ----then you would have work to do.
    But in any event-----there is no way !!!!!! it would even be close to the last one he built----sure as God made those oft talked about little green apples.
    I is now waiting for the excreta to smite the whirlygig [fan to you]. Have a nice day !!!!!!!!!

  5. #125
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    Oh yes ---just don't any one even mention the fact they had jigs to work from------these were purely for decoration purposes, hung on the workshop walls, but not under any circumstance were they to be taken down and actually used. they were purely for "medicinal use" and to lull prospective buyers into a false sense of security.
    None of them actually knew for certain what was coming next----in show business it's called 'HOOFING'------ improvise as you go along and hope you get some applause at the end.
    In a nutshell----------there never were two identical boats----EVER--ANYWHERE------FACT.

  6. #126
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    Talk about "HOOFING" .....

    Quote Originally Posted by jackie wilson View Post
    t----in show business it's called 'HOOFING'------ improvise as you go along and hope you get some applause at the end.
    In a nutshell----------there never were two identical boats----EVER--ANYWHERE------FACT.
    ..... there is so much "HOOFING" in the last two posts it sounded like a stampede!

    I ain't buyin' into your theory Mr. Wilson. I say that because I had the opportunity to drive (maybe dive is a better word) a number of the 18'ers and don't recall feeling any real difference between them. They all handled the same and ran the same speeds. You could jump from one to another and not know you were in a different boat. Seems to me like that's about as identical as you can get in terms of results achieved from cutting down a bunch of trees and trying to make similar things from the wood.

    Another example are the 17' sprints. The first two went to Stickle & Hering. They were painted the same, rigged the same and powered the same. Stickle set all new four hour records for a single on Saturday at Havasu in 1970. Hering bested all of them by a tad on Sunday (fewer boats, slightly better water) ..... they ran the same.

    Of course there were attempts to build two identical boats that didn't work at all. A pair of 9 x 22 triple Jones tunnels we got in 1969 come to mind. Again I had the opportunity to test both of them ..... Jekyll & Hyde! You could run the blue one as hard as you wanted on any kind of water and it thanked you for the excercise. If you tried that with the yelllow one, it would spit your arse out and try to run you over!

    We ran a number of the same style Molinari's on the course at Lake X getting ready for Miami races. Even with different drivers, the boats had times around the course within a few seconds of one another. That makes me think they were pretty damn identical. I can't speak for the Scotti's or Seebolds, but I think that Molinari did a very good job duplicating what was expected in terms of performance.
    Last edited by willabee; 02-21-2013 at 11:16 AM.

  7. #127
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    It's good to see Jackie and Willabee back contributing on this thread.

    Identical was not a good word to use...after all are identical twins really identical???
    Better phrase-oligy would have been intent to build more than one hull the same like Seebold did with the 17 SE hulls he built for the Race of Champions.
    Last edited by peterse90; 02-21-2013 at 12:22 PM.

  8. #128
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    We must all remember that in the 70s boat building was still an art and most builders were craftsmen first and scientists second. Each builder had his own ideas about how to solve the twin problems of speed and drivabilty. Look at old footage from Havasu and you will see many designs being tried. I only raced tunnell boats a few times but I tested a number of others. Some of those boats were built by builders with long reputations. On two ocasions after a couple of passes in these boats I advised the builders to promptly burn them before someone got killed in them. It looked to me like Molinari and a couple of others hit on a working design first and kept evolving it.

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  10. #129
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    Look out folks Willasttilltskin has joined the fray with the usual laconic 1920's laid back attitude he is infamous for.
    A-----i said it ---so he won't agree on principle---rightly or wrongly---he's got the bloody "HUMP" ---------AGAIN!!!!!!!!
    B------he can be wrong from ass---e to breakfast time----but remember 'twas me that drove him from slumber so he's coming out snarling !!!
    C-----like it or not Willa old fruit-----deep down you know i'm right.
    E------the only Moliy's that were remotely alike came out of a bucket and labelled "Glastron" by Bob Hammond.
    There was never a pause in the evolution of "RACING" so why build yesterdays boat ???
    I rest my case old chap !!!!!!!

  11. #130
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    Deep down .....

    Quote Originally Posted by jackie wilson View Post
    C-----like it or not Willa old fruit-----deep down you know i'm right.
    There was never a pause in the evolution of "RACING" so why build yesterdays boat ???
    I rest my case old chap !!!!!!!
    Jackie me lad, deep down I've always thought you were all right. Not always right, but always all right just the same.

    You build them all the same because you had an order for six that have to be in the states by a certain date in order to be readied and tested in time for the Miami 225. Since you are invited to participate in the event, you build one for yourself that is a little different than the others (the beginning of the next evolution). At the event you gain first hand knowledge about the newest stuff from Oshkosh and go home with ideas on more changes you want to try on the next one in the jig.

    I think the building and the changing went something like that.

  12. #131
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    Willa me boy---you are not naive enough to think Renato sent you 6 identical boats that had never touched the murky waters of downtown Como, including one for him himself.
    Bet you a pound to a pincha he could tell you ----barring accidents which order they would finish in.
    Renato had the edge before the order was placed-----he laid out the playing field---planted the grass---and installed the groundsman, and owned the T shirt franchise!!!!!!!!! one smart cookie that boy !!!!!!!!
    He was one step ahead of the rest-------to be up before him meant ,"don't even go to bed".
    And another thing-----WHY YOU BEING NICE----------WHADDYA WANT ??????

  13. #132
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    1974 amsterdam 3hr grand prix

    Quote Originally Posted by peterse90 View Post
    When the V6's appeared the boats changed again.
    The first generation V6 Molinaris; circa 1975, were pickle forks with full rear cowlings then followed by what I called the LCG (low centre of gravity) low rear cowling boats that dominated in St. Louis - August 1976 and in many races in Europe.
    Attachment 272344Attachment 272345Attachment 272342Attachment 272343
    1974 August Mercury entered 5 or 6 new Molinari boats with the new Dyhedral tunnel bottom all T3 powered in the Amsterdam 3 hr Grand Prix i am sure it was the first time it was held in the docks i can tell you there were plenty of wrecked boats in that race i had a good ride in a boat nearly 19ft long with a V4 Johnson .When they cruised past me they got really out of shape and some times had to slow down`thinking about this now what a big jump in power they had i think only two Molinari boats finished 1st and 2nd the rest were driftwood and from where i was i had a good view of all this happening i finished 1st private entry and around 4th overall.Garbrecht had Molinari to the airport before the race finished he had 6 weeks to build some more boats?Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #133
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    What did you break?

  15. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by STEVERINO View Post
    1974 August Mercury entered 5 or 6 new Molinari boats with the new Dyhedral tunnel bottom all T3 powered in the Amsterdam 3 hr Grand Prix i am sure it was the first time it was held in the docks i can tell you there were plenty of wrecked boats in that race i had a good ride in a boat nearly 19ft long with a V4 Johnson .When they cruised past me they got really out of shape and some times had to slow down`thinking about this now what a big jump in power they had i think only two Molinari boats finished 1st and 2nd the rest were driftwood and from where i was i had a good view of all this happening i finished 1st private entry and around 4th

    Ioverall.Garbrecht had Molinari to the airport before the race finished he had 6 weeks to build some more boats?Click image for larger version. 

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    Before i start here---i have to tell you---i could be in big trouble----Steve ----either you or me may have the year wrong !!!!!!!!
    Took a totally untried VIRGIN Scimitar that i had bought for daft money from Roger Hooks widow [she was so damn good looking i didn't have the heart to beat her down in price].
    Chas Shooter and i set about fitting her out with a brand fire new BDG 2 Litre Cosworth, Arrived in Amsterdam, Too late for testing after working 24/7 for 6 days nonstop and no sleep.
    One minute before the off the clock starts running and i am dangling 60' up in the air on a crane hook, at 30 seconds the boat is in the line up between Percival and Spalding but facing the wall.
    Yelled at Chas ---if you don't turn me round in the next 10 seconds i will kill you stone dead _____he signalled the crane driver, who lifted me 2' above Tom and Bob and doused them with a goodly load of dock juice and dropped me back in the water with 10 seconds on the clock .
    Chas then "DANCED" on the deck----untied the slings and "DANCED" back onto the dock wall-------stuck the jack in and the gun went!!!!!!
    hit the starter and the damned thing reached for the skies------we were God bound-----it came out like Challenger----straight up and leapt clear of the liquid-------we were AIRBORNE.
    Struggled valiantly with the trim before it settled into a nice easy lope and had a look around-------nobody even close!!!!!!! rounded the first bouy and looked back, and there i was leading the pack.
    First time i had sat in the boat and was surprised how low and level she ran----like on rails, Renato came by in a hurry and out of shape-----hit a roller and flew------totalled the boat.
    Saw Bill Brown up front who used to be my partner until the fall out so i lapped him on the 5th lap.
    The race was two one and a half hour heats with a 2 hr break in the middle.
    Does any of this sound familiar Steve?????
    if you are interested ----i will tell you the rest of the story.
    Hans Pelster was the winner ----ask me if you want to know the rest.


    Just hope i got the year right---i still think it was 1974.

  16. #135
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    ROTTERDAM 3HR Grand Prix 1974

    RAND
    Quote Originally Posted by jackie wilson View Post
    Before i start here---i have to tell you---i could be in big trouble----Steve ----either you or me may have the year wrong !!!!!!!!
    Took a totally untried VIRGIN Scimitar that i had bought for daft money from Roger Hooks widow [she was so damn good looking i didn't have the heart to beat her down in price].
    Chas Shooter and i set about fitting her out with a brand fire new BDG 2 Litre Cosworth, Arrived in Amsterdam, Too late for testing after working 24/7 for 6 days nonstop and no sleep.
    One minute before the off the clock starts running and i am dangling 60' up in the air on a crane hook, at 30 seconds the boat is in the line up between Percival and Spalding but facing the wall.
    Yelled at Chas ---if you don't turn me round in the next 10 seconds i will kill you stone dead _____he signalled the crane driver, who lifted me 2' above Tom and Bob and doused them with a goodly load of dock juice and dropped me back in the water with 10 seconds on the clock .
    Chas then "DANCED" on the deck----untied the slings and "DANCED" back onto the dock wall-------stuck the jack in and the gun went!!!!!!
    hit the starter and the damned thing reached for the skies------we were God bound-----it came out like Challenger----straight up and leapt clear of the liquid-------we were AIRBORNE.
    Struggled valiantly with the trim before it settled into a nice easy lope and had a look around-------nobody even close!!!!!!! rounded the first bouy and looked back, and there i was leading the pack.
    First time i had sat in the boat and was surprised how low and level she ran----like on rails, Renato came by in a hurry and out of shape-----hit a roller and flew------totalled the boat.
    Saw Bill Brown up front who used to be my partner until the fall out so i lapped him on the 5th lap.
    The race was two one and a half hour heats with a 2 hr break in the middle.
    Does any of this sound familiar Steve?????
    if you are interested ----i will tell you the rest of the story.
    Hans Pelster was the winner ----ask me if you want to know the rest.


    Just hope i got the year right---i still think it was 1974.
    Jackie i can remember this race well i think it was just before Amsterdam` the Scimiter Hull you ran was the same as mine but adopted for inboard power thats the boat( i still have the drawings for 19ft long) built by Desi Roberts of Scimiter Boats Bideford Devon UK.The water boiled that day i think the top boats went out early i can remember Tom Percival passing me in his Molinari T11x he got really out of shape but looked like he was enjoying himself i can remember you passing me your boat looked well suited for this kind of water.Now Hans Pelster was Factory Omc can`t remember him in this race but i do remember passing a Factory boat a Couger V6 Omc powered that didn`t like the rough water and i can remember a full fronted Factory Scotti V4 powered boat going well i think it was the Jeausome boys driving i managed to finish and win first place for a private outboard entry got a really nice solid silver trophy.

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