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05-15-2011, 01:09 PM #106
Bernie For the Record, up off the transom is
irrelevant, propshaft to the bottom measurement
is how its done.
Dud you need to 86 that speedo pitot
its creating unnecessary, drag and turbulance to the prop
From the way the water breaks off your motor at speed, in the video
you attached, I would say you are very deep. Setup looks off
a bit, by the way it carries as well, if of course you are looking
to improve handling and top end...Still think you have a prop/setup issue
But what do I know
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05-15-2011, 02:54 PM #107
What part of
Here is an older pic of my set up
Brabender I believe you have great knowledge on many boats and I appreciate that knowledge and I will try to learn from it. But when you make general set up comments like they are new thoughts that have not been addressed they do not add or help These boats are unique. Not full tunnels, not full flatties. Bruster, and others I know with them show that the 16 footers run well with not much porpoise. I and Bernie and others with 14 footers have found the hulls to be different and porpoise more. Its a HULL issue not a prop issue. Some props will mask it better but the hull is the root cause.
I have talked with you via PM and you expressed what you think I know quite well.
I wish you safe boating.
ConradL6fan57-88
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05-15-2011, 03:04 PM #108
Bernie i am sorry for the Thread HiJack
and Dud I don't claim to know everything
You could try to find a 15" mid
also epoxy the top half of your water pickups
and scoops on lower portion if you are losing water pressure
also notching the transom may help as well
Don't get you panties all up in a bunch,
You are Deep tho
and Stop blaming the Boat
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05-15-2011, 03:27 PM #109
Obviously you dont know everything. I dont either
BUT that is a 15 inch mid. I dont run any 20's I can show you better pictures if you have not seen one lately. I am not loosing water PSI. But if I get any higher the bullet will not force it up there anymore. No epoxy will help that fact.
I would like to learn about notching the transom. I dont know what you mean by this. (for real)
"panties in a bunch" from a guy name BRAbender. Now that is funny
Do you really think this motor can get much higher with stock water intakes. I agree with LWP iw can go MUCH higher.
STOP BLAMING THE PROP! or get one of these boats so you can give first hand advice
Yes I am letting this get to me and I should let it go if your wondering But nearly everything you have advised is either really basic knowedge on not applicable. Stuff that was thought of a long time ago.
Thanks
conradL6fan57-88
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05-15-2011, 03:47 PM #110
You have some great Camera Angles in your previous
Videos, Can you make a few wide open passes w the camera pointed at the prop, Gearcase
Would be very Helpful
On the Big cats we put a v groove in the Pad directly in front of
the Bullet, allows us to run higher and not lose water pressure
I am currently 1 7/8 above the bottom, and can go higher
Wasnt sure on the 15" inline
thought it was 20" looked tall
Heres one of mineFormula 260ss 496HO
Bender Clan Member
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05-15-2011, 03:54 PM #111
That is a very cool boat! We tried to get the camera angle facing backwards for the prop, but the suction cup would not hold onto my crappy flaking gel coat Ill try to post a shot looking back at the prop when I make a mount for the camera off the jack plate. I want to make it solid so I dont loose my buddies camera
ConradL6fan57-88
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05-15-2011, 06:35 PM #112
You guys can hash out how a fast boat should be set up. Mine aint it. It is a GOOD boat but a LOUSY speed boat. Porpoise still happening so I came home and readjusted again, I was able to make it quit buy setting the trim pin so the motors tucked under a little but I could feel it nosing in at the blazing top speed of 42 MPH. This boat will never compete with yours Conrad. 70 is a respectable speed for this hull which was never considered fast to race boat standards. To make one fast I suspect you would need to make it a full tunnel.
Anyway the transom survived....I now have a goal of 45 mph....
At 42 the motor spins 5100 with the 21p prop, Gonna drop it down to a 19p when I can find one.OK, I got down off the porch and ran with the big dogs....kinda sore now....think I'll just lay here in the flowerbed for a while...
1976 Hydrodyne 18 I-O
1969 Allison 15R, 1973 Merc 1500 (project)
1995 Harris toon
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05-15-2011, 06:45 PM #113
Im glad your transom was not ruined. That would have been terrible. Brabender and I worked it out, sorry for the banter.
As to you tucking the motor in. That is exactly what mine needs to stay calm. I actually had to modify my jack plate to allow more negative trim (tuck in) to control some of the porpoise at low speed. I expecially need the tuck in with extra passengers in the front.
When tucked in it rides well but is scrubbing off speed something fierce because the hull has way too much wetted area. I can launch my boat and accelerate to 70 mph without porpoising but I have to be SPOT ON with the trim the whole way thru. It starts out wayy tucked in and ends up with near 0 trim to some positive trim at WOT. If I start trimming up too fast too early during the acceleration I can come into some lousy porpoise that kills my run.
If you get set up well I bet you will see at least 50 mph with that 1000. My 900 with old bronze props pushed this boat 53 mph. If I had better props it might have been a bit better.
ConradL6fan57-88
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05-15-2011, 08:49 PM #114
Conrad, did your 900 have tilt and trim? Running on a jack plate? I don't have either, and I'm not sure I want them. I kinda like the old school feel of this one with no 'modern conveniences'. I would like to find a 19p bronze 2 blade for it though. If I find say...a 1250 powerhead, I might try to rig it to go fast some day. Right now the cav plate is even with the bottom. With that much LU under water it's gonna be real hard to go fast. Without a plate it's gonna be hard to raise it up. I thought about an SSM but it's alot of money for this old girl.
OK, I got down off the porch and ran with the big dogs....kinda sore now....think I'll just lay here in the flowerbed for a while...
1976 Hydrodyne 18 I-O
1969 Allison 15R, 1973 Merc 1500 (project)
1995 Harris toon
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05-15-2011, 09:31 PM #115
Bernie, At first my 1965 900 had no jackplate and no power trim. This motor came with the boat and I believe it to be the original. I set the motor up on a 2x4 and a few thick paint sticks real hi tech I know I suppose the motor was up off the trans maybe 2 inches at most when when I did those runs. I had power trim on the 900 for a short time until it ate its own reed valves. (motor now rebuilt on my Lone Star Holiday)
Before the power trim I had to set it higher than I wanted trim wise and ride thru it. It was such a pain and was very unsafe. I actually had the boat throw me out once and leave me behind at 50 mph when the boat got into a very bad chine walk amplified by loose steering. Power trim is a lifeline when your having problems and the boat gets squirrly. Just a bump down and usually the boat calms out. After that day I got dual cable steer and solid motor mounts. This tamed the beast down a lot and I have never had an uncomfortable moment since (knock on wood) I never got the jack plate until I swapped for a 1250.
The 1965 900 mounted to the boat jacked up at most 2 inches running a very nice 21 bronze cupped prop I got 53 mph. I soon got a 1100 and got 56 mph with the same prop I believe. When the 1100 lost igniton I switched to the 1250 and made the jackplate and purchased some used cleaver props. The addition of the better props and height got me up to 65 mph. Then I blew a rod out the front of the 1250. (my fault the motor was old and wore leaking water under the bottom seals and I never tore it down) It happened on my last run of the season too When I got my 1500 running late last year I ran 69 mph on the first run Ive only been able to run 70 this year. I need to do a few things before it goes any faster.
Thats my progression over the last two years.
The things that keep it safe and fun are solid motor mounts, dual cable steer, new bushings in the steering swivel and better props.
PS wear your lifejacket, it saved my butt when I went out. Kept me up until help found me a half hour later.
Conrad
Adding. Power trim if you can get it will be the joy of your life The jack plate is not necessary. But trim is great. Right now Im guessing your cav plate is water skiing on the water behind the boat stabilizing it. Thats fine up to the mid 40's after that you need to be able to trim up and release that drag and let the air packing the front of the boat stabilize it. My boat does not stabilize on air unil 5o mph. But if your dragging your cav plate you will never get to that point.
ConradLast edited by milkdud; 05-15-2011 at 09:40 PM.
L6fan57-88
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05-15-2011, 09:49 PM #116
Bernie, here is a pick of the 900 when I first got it. I ran it basically like this, minus the crappy aluminum prop. Also a pic of the crusty looking 1100 I ran. All my stuff is ugly, but runs I dont even have a pic of the 1250 it was a real mess But the 1250 was my first 99 cube motor much happiness.
ConradL6fan57-88
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05-15-2011, 09:51 PM #117
Then this is what was what I ended up with today.
ConradL6fan57-88
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06-07-2011, 12:34 PM #118
Ok, you guys caught my interest on the wedges issue... Can you tell if they were molded in to the hull or added later?
It looks like they were positioned to almost create a 4pt sponson arrangement with the ends of the front tunnel. I would
think they would let the aireated water from the tunnel compression spread out under the whole rear pad better creating lift
in the rear to conterbalance the front lift. Cool concept..
Danny Leger
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06-08-2011, 07:48 AM #119
Danny, Yes they were factory as close as I could tell. The fact that Conrad had them too seems to confirm. If it was factory attempt at a four point it was a weak one. The wedges were about 8 inches wide, maybe 6 inches long and about 1/4" deep at the transom. I don't know how much air could move under the boat with a 1/4" lift. They were not in line with the front sponsons, they were somewhat inboard of them. If I were trying to get the back of the boat up off the water I would have made them much longer and at least an inch deep...but I SURE ain't no boat designer.
That said, Conrad says they do help overcome the porpoising on his boat. I put the Nauticus tabs on mine.OK, I got down off the porch and ran with the big dogs....kinda sore now....think I'll just lay here in the flowerbed for a while...
1976 Hydrodyne 18 I-O
1969 Allison 15R, 1973 Merc 1500 (project)
1995 Harris toon
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06-08-2011, 10:15 PM #120
Mine are the same ... 1/4" or so and inboard of the front tunnel. Way too small for any kind of 4 point effect, only a slight hook effect for the trailing edge. I guess a full width hook was too much.
I'm going to build my own tabs.