Got Lots Of Lead?

[Dave S]

This whole thing sounds like another way to run businesses down and out. It seems like everytime you turn around the government is pulling the rug out from under you. Sometimes I think that businesses should unite and tell the government a resounding "No." On the bright side, maybe the homeowner should cut their own holes, get rid of the stuff and then call the contractor to do the work.

[superboat24michael]

i guess for recycling we recover the freon thats doesnt hurt anything .go figure. its.

[gregpro50]

The square footage rule is exempt for replacing windows. If you replace a window you have to follow the regs. And the rule doesn't have any thing to do with cutting a 4 square foot hole. The rule reads as "disturbing". The definition of disturbing is vague and open to interpretation.

Do you want the man coming into your worksite to determine if what you're doing is "disturbing" the lead and subject to a $30,000 fine? Lets put it this way, you are an easy target and these guys like to make names for themselves. No matter what you do you can't win.

Also, no matter if there is lead or not you have to do extensive documentation and perform lead testing. No to mention you have to hand out the "lead safe" booklet to everyone who's home is older than '78.

My decision as of right now is to comply with the testing and documentation but if lead is found we will refuse to work on the home. Read the "lead safe" book and see if you want your customers to view what you are doing the way they portray it. It opens you up to way too much liability.

[gregpro50]

This whole thing sounds like another way to run businesses down and out.

They don't give a **** about lead. It is a revenue generator.

[jmg944t]

I know a guy in business for himself. He got sick of all the relentless red tape and dealing with people who are employed by his tax dollars who are in the business of making his job difficult for no logical reason.

He let his DOT numbers expire and now he doesn't have to deal with their audits. (Here is a good example: You own the truck, you are the only employee/driver. DOT wants you to pull your own driving record, write a policy letter to yourself stating that you will obey traffic laws. Then you have to take your self on a road test and certify yourself compitent to drive the truck. Please document this. DOT want you to punch a clock even though no time clock exists as you are the only employee on a local delivery truck.)
He let alot of things expire and now he doesn't deal with alot of stupid BS.
He is finding that the less you are in the system the less contact you have with any of these gov't types.
He is able to provide his customers with low prices because he doesn't deal with non productive costs.
He is able to spend more time with his customers and his productive work.

He is happier by the day enjoying his position and newly discovered truth. The Gov't is like the hot girl at the HS dance. If you never ask her to dance she'll never say no. Dance with her and she'll break your heart. Ignore her. When the game is rigged stop playing.

[TUG]

Bingo !

i know a guy in business for himself. He got sick of all the relentless red tape and dealing with people who are employed by his tax dollars who are in the business of making his job difficult for no logical reason.

He let his dot numbers expire and now he doesn't have to deal with their audits. (here is a good example: You own the truck, you are the only employee/driver. Dot wants you to pull your own driving record, write a policy letter to yourself stating that you will obey traffic laws. Then you have to take your self on a road test and certify yourself compitent to drive the truck. Please document this. Dot want you to punch a clock even though no time clock exists as you are the only employee on a local delivery truck.)
he let alot of things expire and now he doesn't deal with alot of stupid bs.
He is finding that the less you are in the system the less contact you have with any of these gov't types.
He is able to provide his customers with low prices because he doesn't deal with non productive costs.
He is able to spend more time with his customers and his productive work.

He is happier by the day enjoying his position and newly discovered truth. The gov't is like the hot girl at the hs dance. If you never ask her to dance she'll never say no. Dance with her and she'll break your heart. Ignore her. When the game is rigged stop playing.

[Liquid]

there are a couple of things that bother me with all this
1. There are NO lead test kits available ( dont you think thay would have them ready before 4-21-2010?
2. You cannot even do a lead test untill you have a signed contract stating the job is yours ( then you can tell the cust how much more it will be, and lose the contract to an uncertified worker}
3. Not policed at all.
4. The teachers giving the class told us " well now we know who all of you are and all your info is right here. (so they will watch us ?)
5. you cannot find a HEPA vacume You need 2
6. 6 square feet is all you can disturb (add it up, thats 1 set of sdoor caseing moulding.
7. They say your price will go up 30-38% WHO THE HELL IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WILL PAY THAT/



SUCH A LOAD OF CRAP

[Tinkerer]

And it is OK to import lead toys from CHINA and building materials that are unhealthy.

[gregpro50]

there are a couple of things that bother me with all this
1. There are NO lead test kits available ( dont you think thay would have them ready before 4-21-2010?

There are all kinds of lead test kits out there. Hell we sell a couple different kinds in our store. The problem is that only 1 kit is approved and you can't get it anywhere.

2. You cannot even do a lead test untill you have a signed contract stating the job is yours ( then you can tell the cust how much more it will be, and lose the contract to an uncertified worker}

We are testing our jobs first and if they have lead we are refusing to do the work.

3. Not policed at all.

Sure it is. Not federally or by the state but by contractors turning each other in. That was one of my complaints in the training and the instructor just simply said to turn everyone in that you see.

7. They say your price will go up 30-38% WHO THE HELL IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WILL PAY THAT/

Very few. Especially when there is plenty of black market competition out there that will ignore the rules and do everything under the table without fear of being punished.

The bottom line is that all this does is make it more difficult for legitimate contractors to do business and screwing over homeowners.

[Liquid]

My whole point!!!

[225ho]

For what it's worth.

I work for a window company and we have raised our prices around 9% across the board to all customers....Pre 1978 or not. For a home that has lead we add $29 per opening to do a lead safe install.

You can NOT test for lead unless the homeowner agrees for you to test for lead. If you test for lead and it is positive then it may have to be listed publicly and the owner will have to divulge this to future buyers.

The owner has the option of 1. doing a lead safe install without the test.(lead in the house or not....no one down the road will "have" to know) 2. Testing for lead and if the lead is present then documenting this and doing the lead safe install. 3. Test is negative and then continue installing as we have for the last 57 years.

As far as certified test kits....we have cases. Not a problem getting them...well it may be hard now, but we've had them for over a month.

It is nuts here as we are the only lead safe qualified firm in our area. None of our customers have heard of this from other companys. Just today I recieved an email from a local big box store that asked if they could team up with us to do testing and installs as they don't have any subs that are certified to do the work.

We are a certified firm and have 2 certified testers, and 8 certified installers under our roof.

With that being said, we've had the best April and May to date on sales.


We have contracted 21 homes that were pre 1978 since Mar (that's when we started asking as our installs are 4-6 weeks out) and since then we have had 9 hit with positive on lead based paint.

Oh well, life goes on and there are companies out there that will get drilled with fines. it just takes one job that wasn't documented properly.

[bulldogdaddy]

i was roofing since 82 and when the asbestos crap hit the fan it becam a joke.like was said about the space suits,bagging,lining the dumpsters(I worked at a major contractor out of baltimore dc area) which i know had more than a couple of tons of trash in it.then you had to wash off in a makeshift shower and have the water picked up by the hazardous waste company. what botheres me is the guy who takes it to the dump,which is also supposed to be "lined" so that toxic chemicals dont seep into ground water.when he dumps that load i know it has to rip the hell open.when i was a kid we had to tear off all those damn asbestos shingels or get fired.thanks uncle

[gregpro50]

i was roofing since 82 and when the asbestos crap hit the fan it becam a joke.like was said about the space suits,bagging,lining the dumpsters(I worked at a major contractor out of baltimore dc area) which i know had more than a couple of tons of trash in it.then you had to wash off in a makeshift shower and have the water picked up by the hazardous waste company. what botheres me is the guy who takes it to the dump,which is also supposed to be "lined" so that toxic chemicals dont seep into ground water.when he dumps that load i know it has to rip the hell open.when i was a kid we had to tear off all those damn asbestos shingels or get fired.thanks uncle

Don't get me started on that whole asbestos thing either. Asbestos is made to sound like instant death to anyone who touches the stuff now. However it is perfectly legal for a homeowner and his kids to pull off some asbestos siding and put it to the curb for the garbage men to pick up.

[gregpro50]

For what it's worth.

I work for a window company and we have raised our prices around 9% across the board to all customers....Pre 1978 or not. For a home that has lead we add $29 per opening to do a lead safe install.

You can NOT test for lead unless the homeowner agrees for you to test for lead. If you test for lead and it is positive then it may have to be listed publicly and the owner will have to divulge this to future buyers.

The owner has the option of 1. doing a lead safe install without the test.(lead in the house or not....no one down the road will "have" to know) 2. Testing for lead and if the lead is present then documenting this and doing the lead safe install. 3. Test is negative and then continue installing as we have for the last 57 years.

As far as certified test kits....we have cases. Not a problem getting them...well it may be hard now, but we've had them for over a month.

It is nuts here as we are the only lead safe qualified firm in our area. None of our customers have heard of this from other companys. Just today I recieved an email from a local big box store that asked if they could team up with us to do testing and installs as they don't have any subs that are certified to do the work.

We are a certified firm and have 2 certified testers, and 8 certified installers under our roof.

With that being said, we've had the best April and May to date on sales.


We have contracted 21 homes that were pre 1978 since Mar (that's when we started asking as our installs are 4-6 weeks out) and since then we have had 9 hit with positive on lead based paint.

Oh well, life goes on and there are companies out there that will get drilled with fines. it just takes one job that wasn't documented properly.

I would love to come up against you on a newer than '78 home.

I personally can't see how $29 per opening would cover the lead install given how much prep and teardown work is needed.

The very first thing I do is test for lead. If the homeowner doesn't want the test done then we walk. If we do the test and it comes up positive then we walk. I want nothing to do with the potential legal ramifications of doing a lead job. I'm not going to document anything.

If you do a lead job, document the work perfectly, and the wife has a child the next year with a birth defect then in their eyes it is your fault and you are going to get sued.

My first priority is to protect the company and we have plenty of other work that we can do (until that becomes regulated as well). I'll let others be the guinea pigs for a while.