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Thread: carbonfiber/kevlar layup
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12-30-2009, 11:43 PM #31
Dude you really need to read my last post & who fricken mentioned anything about a light lay up for a race hull ? (hellooooooooooooooooo)or ( can you not read ) Did i not mention a Wellcraft Scarab , that is a production boat and once again does not even see triple digits .Tunnels , sometimes you twist things so far out of shape that there is no f***ing logic comeing from you at all!
Last edited by OFFSHORE GINGER; 12-30-2009 at 11:59 PM.
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12-30-2009, 11:53 PM #32
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12-31-2009, 12:07 AM #33
Last edited by OFFSHORE GINGER; 12-31-2009 at 12:11 AM.
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01-03-2010, 04:18 AM #34
So what deciion did Mr Concrete come too after another thriller by all concerned at least we all love boats . and the fine materials involved or 99% of them .
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01-03-2010, 09:04 AM #35
I didn't think I would need a core with using high strength materials and stringers..but..after all the "experts" chimed in....
I was just wanting to gain some thinkness with the coremat
I will probably use corecell..kevlar,kevlar,carbonF,corecell, carbonF, carbonF
and something else in the pad thats yet to be determined.
Bill
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01-03-2010, 11:56 AM #36
Ok so you are insisting on using corecell !
Have you settled on the grade (theres a few to pick from )and the density (now this is the problem area )???
What thickness????(why are you intending 2 thin layers? )
Have you thought about getting purfirated or non purfirtaed ??
The first layer (to the old laminate) you intend to put down is stuck down with ??
and how do you intend to put it down ???
Why 2 layers of core cell ??
and why kevlar and carbon ??
They are 2 completely opposite materials one with a load of streach and one with no streach
Carbon /kevlar--corecell thickiness 15mm --kevlar /carbon/carbon would be a better option
and make the corecell one layer with the combined thickness that you were intending when you were going to use 1/4 X 2 layers =1/2 inch ?
Have you read all the information on core cell ??
Remember Yacht construction any size and big powerboat construction from 24 ft upwards and small hi speed power boat from 10ft to 23ft plus construction are all completely differant from each other !!
Small powerboat construction is the tricky one and thats the one where engineers fall flat on there behinds with and get it all wrong .
With this type of layup using kevlar and carbons etc you have no choice but to use nothing less than a good Epoxy thoughout !!Last edited by tunnels; 01-03-2010 at 01:44 PM.
Messing round with boats is fun !! the learning never stops ,even after more than 30 years there's always something new happening somewhere ! BUT somethings never change and some problems never go away and just keep reoccurring !!so moved into Composite Forensics , Now that something completely new !!
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01-03-2010, 01:03 PM #377000 RPM
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I think he was saying he was going to use corecell, then gave the lay up. I read it as kevlar,kevlar,carbon,corecell,carbon,carbon. The 2 corecell words were just used too close together. If he doesnt want to use core, or was trying to get away from it he could always bulk up those area's with heavy glass,(woven roving ect.) I know the end weight will be heavier but he wont have to worry about core. My rebuild never had core, and I didn't put any back. But you should see how thick the pad area and center of the boat is. With all the overlap from the stringers and the overlap from the glass I put in, I'm pretty sure the pad is at least 1"thick, which is fine for me I knew it was going to be anyways but the bottom is very solid. As far as the question about the material used, using the carbon and kevlar will produce a very strong light layup, but there won't be any bulk to it, I think it would be to thin for the bottom of a boat, now if it was for the cap then it would be better. I've built boats out of all carbon, and out of all kevlar, but the material was alot heavier than the stuff your talking about using, like 1308 kevlar, 24oz kevlar, 10oz and 16oz carbon. Its alot thicker.
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01-03-2010, 01:15 PM #387000 RPM
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On this site i feel we are here to try and keep it simple and to keep people out of trouble and make life easy for all to understand and do the work .
Only use balsa in the bottom of powerboats ! is that simple enough , what you use in the topsides is a whole differant story !
If you say use foam you need to specify the name and its density , its type and the manufactures name !!.
Balsa is balsa !!!
P V C Foam is a whole differant thing !,theres a list as long as you arm and not all are suitable for one particular job .
And if your thinking nomex honeycomb , paper or aluminium then you are in the wrong place .
Simple things work best !!![/QUOTE]
I agree Balsa is the easiest to work with and the most economical. Also it would be pretty easy to get the wrong density core if you didnt know what you were looking for. And the list is probably longer than your arm. I've never used the paper or aluminum honeycomb and i dont know why anybody would build a boat with paper, or aluminum honeycomb, The aluminum wouldnt last too long once exposed to salt.
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01-03-2010, 02:28 PM #39
Just read through the Corecell spec sheet and it is just the same as any other pvc foam .
Like i said a lot a times before Balsa is your best choice and i will stick to that decission .
Its flexual and core shear that is the issue with small boats and great piles of laminate is not the answer be it glass of what ever .
To do what you are doing this would be my choice of mateials and lay up
1.5 oz csm with a Double bias Glass with a 1.5 oz csm as you first layer !
The core a Balsa 3/4 inch sucked into core bond .
a 1.5 oz csm and a double bias glass over with a 2 oz undirectional glass set at 90 degress to the keel line and a 1.5 oz over the top with a layer of peel ply well rolled into the top laminate to finish off with !
Resin would be all Yinylester
All layers ovelaping in the pad area with 2 extra double bias layers running full length of the pad coming out 2 inchs under and over the core during the lay up so it is sandwiched inbetween the layers of glass .
The uni on the inside will give you ridgidity and work in conjunction with the 3/4 core .The bottom will have very little movment at all and i wouldnt have any stringers just a centre keel for the inside floor to sit on top of !!
Someone some where is going to ask why no stringers ! any one know why ?? Anyone what to take a guess??
The cost of materials would be much less i would say.
Double bias matt comes with a csm stitched to one side if you can get it then one 1.5 csm on each layer can be left out !Last edited by tunnels; 01-03-2010 at 02:56 PM.
Messing round with boats is fun !! the learning never stops ,even after more than 30 years there's always something new happening somewhere ! BUT somethings never change and some problems never go away and just keep reoccurring !!so moved into Composite Forensics , Now that something completely new !!
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01-03-2010, 03:37 PM #40
Gorilla read it right..kevlar,kevlar, carbon/f, core,carbon/f,carbon/f
That was the thought of using coremat in the first place..to gain thickness..I don't care about what the strength of the core is.thats what the carbons for.
Kevlar is going down first because of the impact resistance, then the carbon for strength.
Wood.....is totaly out of the question for me anyway.
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01-03-2010, 03:37 PM #41
Not to hijack your thread
But tunnels do you think this is an acceptable
use of coremat in this stream
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CFormula 260ss 496HO
Bender Clan Member
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01-03-2010, 04:16 PM #42
"I don't care about what the strength of the core is".
You had better think about the strength of everything specially the core as this is going to crap out very quickly and all the rest will be doing very little just flapping in the breeze !! and youll be back scratching those round hairy things wondering what happened and why !!
Point to always remember when building a boat , Its only as strong as that stuff up you covered up when you were making it !!
Time to add my favorite phrase again ! 80%of all failures are from bad workmanship and the other 20% is just bad choice of materials !Last edited by tunnels; 01-03-2010 at 04:40 PM.
Messing round with boats is fun !! the learning never stops ,even after more than 30 years there's always something new happening somewhere ! BUT somethings never change and some problems never go away and just keep reoccurring !!so moved into Composite Forensics , Now that something completely new !!
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01-03-2010, 04:20 PM #43Messing round with boats is fun !! the learning never stops ,even after more than 30 years there's always something new happening somewhere ! BUT somethings never change and some problems never go away and just keep reoccurring !!so moved into Composite Forensics , Now that something completely new !!
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01-03-2010, 04:26 PM #44
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01-03-2010, 04:30 PM #45