User Tag List

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    55
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Cool Attempting to Time the "tower of power"

    Ok, I am going to try and attempt to time my 1976 Mercury 115hp and I am looking for any and all advice before I start this process. The motor runs great at top end with great power, but falls short at low rpm and has trouble getting back up on plane once throttled back. This is one issue I havent ever done and is going to be a learning experience for me. Any and all advice is appreciated, except "take to someone", because for some reason my mechanic (Wagner's Marine in west bend wi), couldn't do it. Thank you in advance.....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    16,973
    Thanks (Given)
    2
    Thanks (Received)
    38
    Likes (Given)
    46
    Likes (Received)
    174
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)
    Shove the throttle wide open. Turn ignition switch ON. Remove #1 spark plug and get it well grounded to side of head. I piece of wire wrapped around threads works well if you don't have a helper. Put pull handle on nut on top of flywheel. Back flywheel (counter clockwise looking down from top) around well past timing marks and stop. Rotate flywheel back in a clockwise direction and listen for the sparkplug to pop (fire) observing the position of the timing mark. Do not advance the timing past 21º. Adjust timing stop and go back through proceedure to check. Of course you can also do a wide open throttle check IN THE LAKE with a timing light hooked up, stop, adjust the timing, and then go again. Inlines are very critical as far as the low speed timing/carb pickup synchonization. What I've always done on MY engines isn't exactly the same as the manual, and it draws conflicting opinions when I've posted it in the past from some VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE inline guys, so my best advice there is to buy a manual and set 'em like the book says. One thing that nobody debates is that the engine has to get MOST OF the timing advance in before the carbs start to crack open. If the carb pickups are adjusted where the carbs crack too early in the sequence you'll get a bog.

    CAUTION: MOTOR COULD FIRE AND KICK AS YOU ROTATE FLYWHEEL. IT WOULD BE VERY DANGEROUS TO DO THIS ON A WARM ENGINE WITHOUT REMOVING MORE OF THE SPARKPLUG WIRES. I've seen people claim that trigger damage is possible if remaining wires are not grounded, but have never believed it myself.
    Membership upgrade options: http://www.screamandfly.com/payments.php

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Middle USA
    Posts
    1,439
    Thanks (Given)
    8
    Thanks (Received)
    16
    Likes (Given)
    51
    Likes (Received)
    39
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Smile new guy here same question

    could I check my timing on my1965 900 L-6 the same? it runs great but if this works, I might as well check it. Same for my 1100 1966 SS? both shorties running on a carlson contender.

    THanks
    Conrad

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    524
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    4
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    At some point, Mercury removed the decal from the cowling and replaced it with a decal on the flywheel and a timing pointer. It is critical to set the timing pointer before attempting to set the timing. I use a static method of setting the maximum advance; disconnect the throttle cable and turn the engine counterclockwise so the timing mark is 1/4 turn or more before TDC, turn the engine clockwise to the 21 BTDC degree mark. Remove #1 sparkplug and ground it. Turn the key on and manually advance the distributor until you hear the spark snap. That is maximum advance, loosen the lock nut and set the screw at that point. I set the primary throttle pickup at 4 BTDC degree mark. If the throttle vanes are opening too soon, the motor will bog down. The motors make full advance before the throttle opens much at all. This is set by the primary and secondary pickups. This maximum advance with minimal throttle is also the reason the motors that use the "economizer" carb circuit tend to burn pistons, full advance and lean mixture = trouble...

    A Mercury service manual is a must; there should be a "link and sync" topic on this site... Somewhere...

    Kirk S.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    55
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ahh ha. a bog you say. That might be my whole issue. My primary pickup has always looked a lil off. I've got a seloc, so I will refer to that as well. Its always great to hear the tricks though and have it explained in somewhat laymans terms. This is great info guys, thanks - keep it coming if you remmeber anything else. And Raceman, I know there are many different ways to do this and I'd hope no one would bite your head off for your opinion on how to do this. I'd like to hear it if your still offering - Thanks much again!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Annapolis, MD ragboat capital of the world
    Posts
    11,463
    Thanks (Given)
    591
    Thanks (Received)
    164
    Likes (Given)
    2428
    Likes (Received)
    445
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    I have never heard of damage to the trigger, but have heard that there is potential damage to the coil if you spin the motor with the spark plug wires disconnected. What was presented to me was that the spark from the coil is going to go somewhere and if it is not presented with a reasonably short/easy path similar to the spark plug ... it could burn a path thru the coil's insulation.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    55
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    yes I have heard that as well, an ignition coil is more likely to work ten times harder so to speak, if the plug wires are not grounded, and thus causing short life of the coil. I'm getting a tank tomorrow, so after work (if it aint rainin) is when I'm going to try this.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Brunswick,Ga
    Posts
    362
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Thumbs up

    QUOTE=CrayzKirk;1691082]At some point, Mercury removed the decal from the cowling and replaced it with a decal on the flywheel and a timing pointer. It is critical to set the timing pointer before attempting to set the timing. I use a static method of setting the maximum advance; disconnect the throttle cable and turn the engine counterclockwise so the timing mark is 1/4 turn or more before TDC, turn the engine clockwise to the 21 BTDC degree mark. Remove #1 sparkplug and ground it. Turn the key on and manually advance the distributor until you hear the spark snap. That is maximum advance, loosen the lock nut and set the screw at that point. I set the primary throttle pickup at 4 BTDC degree mark. If the throttle vanes are opening too soon, the motor will bog down. The motors make full advance before the throttle opens much at all. This is set by the primary and secondary pickups. This maximum advance with minimal throttle is also the reason the motors that use the "economizer" carb circuit tend to burn pistons, full advance and lean mixture = trouble...

    A Mercury service manual is a must; there should be a "link and sync" topic on this site... Somewhere...

    Kirk S.[/QUOTE]:

    I agree and it's much safer than rotating the flywheel with a pull handle.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    55
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've been trying to find a "link and sync" topic or thread on this site with regards to procedures for timing properly and in proper sequence, but can't seem to find one with regards to the inline 6. Can anybody find one?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    55
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Oh yea, I forgot to mention, my motor, a '76, I beleive is sposed to have the timing decal on the flywheel, but it apparently seems to have decided it didnt want to stay there any longer and is missing. It does look like this motor was timed once before, because there are marks made with a sharpie or other magic marker, indicating 21 and two other marks, one with 0, and the other not too far away with no #. I assume that mark would be for 4*. I am wondering if I should trust these marks lol. how do you deterimine where to mark 0* on your flywheel. With a dial indicator I could set it at tdc and mark the flywheel where the pointer is. would that be correct?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    2,595
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Timing and syncro an inline 6 with a dist.

    Tools needed, dial indicator with spark plug thread adapter, 7/16" wrench, phillips screwdriver, 5/16" wrench.

    Set timing pointer.
    Remove spark plugs.
    Install dial indicator in #1 plug hole
    Turn flywheel by hand clockwise until TDC on dial indicator. Set indicator to zero.
    Turn flywheel counterclockwise to about 1/4 way past .464 on indicator. Turn clockwise to precisely line up .464 on dial indicator. Check and set timing pointer at .464 mark on flywheel decal.

    To set WOT statically.
    Remove throttle cable from throttle arm.
    Remove all spark plugs. Place one spark plug in the #1 wire and ground it against the block.
    Turn flywheel to approximately 21*
    Turn key switch on.
    Move throttle arm to WOT position. As the dist bumps against the throttle stop (Maximum Spark Advance)the plug should fire, you will hear a pop. If it doesn't you will need to adjust the timing advance screw until the dist bumps the screw just as the plug fires.

    Repeat this same procedure for initial timing pickup of 4-6* BTDC or this can easily be set with an inductive timing light. Using the pickup timing screw.

    With the dist. set at the idle position loosen the two small actuator plate bolts. They are near the top of the dist. right above the secondary pick up screw. Looking down at the dist and carb, without moving the throttle move this plate until the arm on the dist actuator plate is just touching the carb's pickup lever. Tighten the two bolts on the actuator plate.

    Advance the throttle until the dist is against the max. spark advance screw, but the large spring around the dist is not activated. Adjust the secondary pickup screw so the arm on the carb is just touching the secondary lever.

    Move the throttle to WOT. Adjust the full throttle stop screw on the plate on the front of the dist. so the carb shutters are wide open. Don't allow the shutters to act as the throttle stop. All of the shutters in the three carbs should be the same and exactly forward. If not adjust using the adjustment on the top of each carb where they are linked

    Once all your sync is done adjust the idle mixture screws to 2 turns out from lightly seated. Start the engine in the water, not on a hose or in a barrel.
    Once the engine is warmed up, about 3-4 minutes, place the engine in gear, prop on and readjust the mixture screw. Note these engines need to run on the rich side of idle to enable them to get on plane.
    Once you have a good idle give the engine some throttle and make sure the engine does not stall. Adjust mixture if necessary. Once the engine will go to WOT without stalling take it for a ride and make sure you can get on plane smoothly without bogging or stalling. Turning the mixture screw in leans the mixture, counterclockwise richens the mixture.

    For best results get the Mercury OEM service manual. Just substitute where they have the engine running to set timing with this static procedure. Check your WOT timing with a timing light. The dist engines should keep the timing you set statically.

    Special note, engines with the two switchboxes, non dist., will vary the timing from cranking speed to WOT. Usually they will retard 2* at WOT from cranking.

    I would also recommend going one size larger in your main jets. If your engine calls for .080 main jets, go to .082, due to the fuel used today. I would also recommend 19* max timing with 21* being the Mercury recommendation, however with todays fuels you will be better off with 19*
    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

    3 X APBA Formula V Nat'l Champion
    APBA Formula V US-1
    It took me 29 years to become an overnight success.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    55
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Excellent!! Thank you Jeff. This is what I was looking for. On the other hand, What if the decal isnt there on the flywheel and should be? Is there a way I can mark the flywheel using the dial indicator?
    Also, I am jetted .002 larger than what that year motor calls for. They are at .074
    Last edited by frostydevil; 06-17-2009 at 12:20 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    55
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    also, I'm going to be looking for some ingenious way to mount my dial indicator lol. I cant afford the $95 for the awesome guages in the sticky thread.

    and theres gotta be a way to find or mark the degree marks on the flywheel that doesnt have the decal still attached. anyone want to get out thier dial indicators and calipers and give me some measurements? lol, I might (big might) be able to get a decal, but where to stick it...hmmmm :-l

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    2,595
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    IIRC 21* is .104 on the dial indicator, but I could be wrong. You can clamp the dial indicator if you really have to to the water jacket, but you need the long rod to reach the piston.
    Worst case you can stick a pencil, eraser end, into the cylinder and turn the flywheel until the pencil doesn't move outward. Mark the flywheel across from the timer pointer or other mark. Now turn the flywheel CCW through it's stroke and mark the flywheel again when the pencil stops. TDC is half way between these marks. Set your pointer and time the motor at 19* to be safe. Using a timing light.
    You can also borrow a flywheel and the take a measurement off that and transfer the measurement.
    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

    3 X APBA Formula V Nat'l Champion
    APBA Formula V US-1
    It took me 29 years to become an overnight success.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    55
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Cool beans, I think I am now confident I can do this. Thanks jeff. I will no doubt be doing this on sat and I will let you know how it turns out.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Aeromarine Research