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seeroy
01-25-2005, 08:28 PM
For years I have wanted to pass along some of the experiences I had at Lake X from 1962 through 1970. This is going to take awhile and will be a living document. That means that I will add bits and pieces over time. Additionally, I invite anyone that was there to add their experiences. CAVEAT! Do not expect everything to be accurate and correct. It's not that I don't want to be correct. But, unfortunately, I will have to work from memory and the few items I still have as clues. Also, I have been known to embelish. If there is one thing I have learned in my life as a former boat racer, fisherman and fighter pilot; it is that boat racers, fishermen and fighter pilots are the greatest liars in the world. I especially know that is true about boat racers because we would always run every race boat through the measured kilo at Lake X many times as we tried new things and as Don Schwebbs banged on our props. We always knew exactly how fast our boats were running before we left the lake. The only significant variables were fuel loads, water conditions and whether we were running in salt water. SOOOOO...you would not believe how many times somebody at a race site would tell me that they were running at 75mph and I would walk past them in an absolute 62mph boat. Excuse me if I get names, places, dates and alot of other things wrong. Also feel free to correct me. I am Steve Sirois and my brother was Bill Sirois. Many of you may have heard of or known him. Very few of you will have known or heard of me. In my next post I will try to explain how we got to Lake X. :rolleyes:

Scream And Fly
01-25-2005, 08:32 PM
Great post - keep it going!

Greg

Raceman
01-25-2005, 08:33 PM
Steve, I'm sittin' on the edge of my seat and can't wait. I only went to Lake X once and glad I was able to go before Swebbie left. I hope you've got some pictures also.

seeroy
01-25-2005, 09:38 PM
I just spent an hour writing a post about how Bill started racing and ended up at the Lake,,,,,and then when I submitted it,,,,,, it must have gone to Mars, because I lost it all. Sooooo...I will try again, in smaller bits - Steve:confused:

PARKER RABE
01-25-2005, 09:42 PM
Man - I Have So Many Pics Of Me My Dad And Swebbie At Lake X , Wish I Had A Scanner

seeroy
01-25-2005, 09:48 PM
OK, Let's try again. Circa 1950, When we were kids in Indiana, our Uncle George Horner owned a small Fish Camp on the Kankakee River by Shelby, IN. Bill would have been 9-10 & I 6-7. Bill purloined one of George's fishing boats and was terrorizing the local fishermen when he ran afoul of the local Game Warden. The Fuzz, holding Bill by the ear, returned him to George with the admonition, "You better watch this Kid, he's a menace on the water." If he had only known what the future held!.....I'm going to do this in small pieces so I won't lose too much again - Steve

Mark75H
01-25-2005, 09:49 PM
Parker, I have a scanner ;)

PARKER RABE
01-25-2005, 09:54 PM
Sam - Man You Would Have A Pallett Show Up At The Door ,
I Dont Know Where To Start , As Far As Loading

seeroy
01-25-2005, 10:07 PM
1959 Bill was an officer in SHS JB's Club (junior JC's I think). He convinced members that a good project would be to sponsor a boat race on Sarasota Bay. Needless to say, Bill would be the race chairman. I not sure that he told anybody in advance the he also planned to compete. He cobbled together an old fishing boat and attached a Mercury KG-9. I think he did quite well. Bill was also a outstanding swimmer on the SHS swim team and Coach Carlie Cleland was thorougly p---ed when Bill quit the team in order to go to work for Al Holub at Sarasota Marine. Al also had a part interest in a small boat building business and after sending Bill through Mercury Service school began to let him use one of his hulls and a Mercury to run in local races. Bill was forever grateful to Al for that. I went to a race with Bill and his girfriend Suzanne (Willy) Williams in Palmasola Bay. He won that one handily and soon had caught the attention of Mercury. I think that Bob Burford, who was married to Helen Kiekhaefer, got Bill in the door. Anyway, he was soon at Lake X running endurance. A side project was helping to build the 17 mile road around the property. Chet Strickland was right along side of him as they slogged through the swamps. Bill and Chet had been good friends through High School. Chet was also a very successful racer in both the US and Europe. The last time I saw Chet was at Bill's funeral. More later - Steve

10.5' Tunnel
01-25-2005, 10:23 PM
I love your stories! Please post more! Its always great to get first hand accounts, especially from a person that can tell a story as well :)

seeroy
01-25-2005, 10:33 PM
June 1962. Right after SHS graduation, Bill helped me get onboard with Mercury at the Siesta Key test station. A point to be made....Back then it was Kiekhaefer Corporation. Later it became Mercury Marine. Gene Wagner was the Boss there and a great guy to work for. Had alot of fun running endurance in salt water and will provide many stories about that in the future. I started at Manatee Jr College in the Fall and barely hung in for awhile. In 1963, I flunked out of MJC and went to work full time at Siesta Key test station and shortly ended up at Lake X driving endurance. Ted Collins ran the admin side of things and Joe Anderson was the boss in the shop. Over the next several years I worked on and off at Lake X and Siesta Key while I also returned to MJC and then Univ of South Florida. Finally eked out a BA in Management at USF in 1968. We ran 24 hour endurance at Lake X from Monday AM until Saturday at Noon when we would pull the boats out of the water an wash them. Often I would then drive a truck to Sarasota to pick up parts at the Airport Distrubution warehouse and return Monday AM. We worked hard sometimes, but played hard all the time. Needless to say, there was a copius amount of adult beverage consumed. Many stories about that in the future. I honestly do not know how I survived those whiskey years. More tomorrow night, I hope! -Steve:rolleyes:

Trikki1010
01-26-2005, 12:12 AM
Thanks for sharing Steve,

Keep it rollin' :D :D

hwyrnr
01-26-2005, 03:18 AM
great stuff. Keep it up. thanks, James

Chummy
01-26-2005, 07:44 AM
The lake that I never had the chance to go to......but with these stories it almost feels like it.

Firestarter
01-26-2005, 09:34 AM
please keep it coming!

blkmtrfan
01-26-2005, 11:43 AM
I am with the others, please write as much as you wish ...

And we need to all pitch in and get Parker a scanner ;)

JustMercMe
01-26-2005, 11:59 AM
Love the stories. Keep em comin'

Parker....you could take a lil out of the sale of your ride and buy a cheap scanner man....I've got one here at the house also if you need some help with that. Just get up with me. Let me know if I can help. I'd like to see more on the Hammer Down stuff also.

PARKER RABE
01-26-2005, 01:43 PM
I Know!!! Im Waiting For Lake Racer 99 To Post The Rest Of Them !

seeroy
01-26-2005, 05:02 PM
I have at least 5 stories that fit this category. In 4 of them, nobody got hurt. Sad to say, the other one was tragic. I will post them individually and it may take me until later tonight of even tomorrow to post them all..............Very early during my time with Kiekhaefer I was running endurance out of the Siesta Key.....Ooops gotta go...back in about an hour or two....-Steve

dotz
01-26-2005, 05:25 PM
These are great. Keep it up. Reminds me of sitting around with my grandpaw and listing to his great stories. These are the best. THANKS FOR SHARING

seeroy
01-26-2005, 08:04 PM
OK, so we were running endurance out of Siesta Key. Gene Wagner was the boss there and he would see us off early AM. There would be 4 or 5 of us and we would be running anywhere from 20 to 50mph depending on what engines we were testing. Several years prior one of the endurance driver had the sun in his eyes as he went under the Siesta Key Bridge and ran over a fisherman causing serious injuries. Well, Gene was always worried that such an event would recur. Anyway, Pete Brogan was running a Alim with twin big mercs and I was running a small cat with twin small mercs. He would have been running around 50mph and I was probably doing 35. Pete decided that he would wash me down. I'm sure most of you know how that is done. He is head on to me when he started a big arc to set me up. Seeing this, I decided to counter. Take it from me, never turn into someone that is trying to wash you down. Always turn the opposite direction. We met in the middle of the turn and I literally went through his boat doing much damage and taking out one of his engines. Fortunately neither of us got hurt. As we came to a stop, Pete was livid. He was screaming something about having a family to feed and how he needed this job. Wisely I kept my distance. I told Pete, "Don't worry about it. I'm single. I'll take all the blame". I got out of there and headed back to the base at my stately 35mph while Pete limped back off-plane. When I got back I approached Gene and told him I had bad news. The blood immediatly started to leave his face. When I told him I had been involved in a collision, he turned ashen. No doubt he thought I had run over a fisherman. When I told him I had only run over Pete he was so relieved that he didn't even fire me. However, I can tell you that it is no fun climbing under the deck of a small cat and grinding fiberglass for an hour or two. Being my first experience grinding fiberglass, I didn't know what I was in for until later. Jumping off the dock and staying in salt water for an hour does not help one bit. Follow this bit of advice from me that I learned 8 years later in USAF pilot training. If you are closing on another airplane (or boat), make note of whether or not he is moving on your canopy. If he is stationary on your canopy (or windshield) and you never change the geometry, you are in big trouble.

AwesomeBullet
01-26-2005, 08:13 PM
Ted Collins is my grandfather....he talks a bit about his Lake X days, I always enjoy watching the old movies from the demo days out there when they would show off for the corporate big wigs....12' tiller steer jon boats jumping ramps and stuff like that...I've been out there twice, heck I live close enough that I could hear the boats running when the wind was coming from the right direction....It's funny as heck when he starts talking about Mr K screaming at techs at Fond-du-lac when a motor blew up on his lake! :D

seeroy
01-26-2005, 08:44 PM
This is probably the stupidest thing I ever did in my life. Well, maybe not the stupidest, but it ranks right up there. Driving endurance at Lake X on the midnight shift and the sky is beginnig to lighten up enough to see without lights. Phil Schenk had pulled off to the inside of the course at the South end of the lake. As we often did, I pulled off and rafted up with him to talk. Phil went to the transom and proceeded to relieve himself over the edge. There must have been an evil demon sitting on my shoulder and whispering into my ear. Without thinking, I acted on an sudden impulse to reach into his boat an jam the shift/throttle lever full forward. You know it's kind of like that urge to laugh when someone falls down. For about a micro second it was funny. Then I noticed that Phil was hangin' out the back of the boat (in more ways than one) and fighting to get himself and it back in. Meanwhile he was screaming something akin to what Pete Brogan was screaming in the previous story. Fortunately, neither Phil nor any part of his body was injured. At least I don't Think he or it was. This was another occurance in which I felt it wise to keep some distance between my victim and me. Once accept some advice from a guy who has managed to survive 61 years on this planet. Never act on a sudden impulse! There is a difference between the sane and the insane. I have always believed that everyone has a rare moment when some foolish thought run through your mind. The difference is that the sane man laughs at himself but does not act on it. The insane man does. Everybody knows that every boat racer has just a little bit of insanity lying just below the surface. There is an old saying that runs in aviation circles. "There are plenty of old pilots, and plenty of bold pilots, but very few old bold pilots." Personally, I believe that you must be bold to compete and win in the world of racing. Bill was bold, but he always knew when to lay back and let the other guy destroy his equipment. Sidelight here: Bill always had lots of humorous one liners. One that I thought was particularly funny and self-effacing was, "It's not very big around, but it sure is short". Later Gators......Best regards - Steve Sirois

seeroy
01-26-2005, 09:27 PM
Awesome Bullet - Let me tell you, your Grandfather is a very good man. Several years ago I was passing through St Cloud and looked him up. We had a nice talk. Sorry everyone but Awesome B. just made me remember a totally different and totally stupid thing that I did. I think it was Ralph Seavey and I that had been in St Cloud for many hours day-drinking and enjoying the cowboy hospitality of the J&A Bar. I once saw a well oiled cowboy ride his horse right through the front door. His act was well recieved by the clientele and I nearly fell off the bar stool laughing. Anyway, Ralph and I decided it was about time to make our way back to the lake in my early '60s Corvair. Damn that car was fun to drive. It was even more fun when the "Whiskey Man" was riding on my shoulder and whispering into my ear. I don't know if you have ever had that experience, but he tends to tell you that you have super-human talents. He told me that I could drive the entire distance from the Lake X turn off to the lake gate without ever actually getting on the pavement. I guess that was another time when I let myself slip across that thin line into the world of the insane. The weeds along the roadside were roughly the same height of a full grown Corvair. Therefore, for about 5 miles, all we saw was the weeds at the distance from the windshield to the front bumper. From the road, it must have looked like a wild pig running through the weeds. The amazing thing is that we actually made it to within a hundred yards of the gate when we re-emerged onto the pavement and gathered enough speed to fully engage the emergency brake and spin the steering wheel full left, thus causing the white Corvair to wildly spin in a screeching 180 degree turn amid great clouds of smoke and gales of laughter coming from the two idiots inside. We finally came to a dead stop directly in front of the gate and facing the other way. When everything finally got quiet anyone could still hear us laughing from a some distance. That included Mrs. Kiekhaefer and Anita Kiekhaefer who were both standing at the gate with stunned looks on their faces. Ralph and I suddenly realized that we would probably be packing our stuff very soon. Upon awakening the next day we were summoned to the main affice for a visit with Awesome Bullet's Grandfather (Ted Collins, the Boss). Ted was always a very laid back gentleman. He very quietly asked if anything exciting had happened to us the previous evening. I immediatly replied. "I cannot tell a lie. He did it." and I pointed at Ralph. Much to my relief, Ted laughed and simply said, "You guys need to take it a little easy. Get back to work." I think we both bowed several time as we backed out of the office. Soooooo, Awesome Bullet, the next time you see your Grandfather, tell him how grateful I am to this very day that he saw fit to have mercy on a couple of idiots 40+ years ago. That's all for tonight folks. Best Regards from someone that survived his own stupidity many years ago, but is around to laugh about it today. - Steve Sirois :rolleyes:

Trikki1010
01-26-2005, 09:33 PM
I always believed it is much better to be foolish at a younger age ;)

We're like rubber. When it's new, it's REAL flexible. When it's gettin' on in age, NOT so flexible :eek: :D :D

Thanks for sharing Steve :cool:

seeroy
01-27-2005, 01:36 PM
The woman who literally changed my life 31 years ago and my wife of 30 years, reminded me late last night of 2 things. #1: Be a little careful of what you say in that forum. People may think you were a drunk. and #2: Don't get a big head just because some may enjoy your stories. As usual, she is right. As to #1, things were definately wild and wooly in the '60s. I was in my late teens and early 20's. There was not the stigma attached to alcohol as there is today. How we survived in those days was usually only by luck, and I certainly had my share of that. I have always believed that you change with the times or you die. Believe me when I say that I have changed with the times. How else could I have evolved through several stages to end up as a School Safety Inspector. However, I'm don't believe that I would have made it through those evolutions were it not for Iris. I know that may sound corney, but it is true. I love her dearly. As to #2, The only thing better than telling a good story, is realizing that someone might actually enjoy it. However if I get too wound up, as I sometimes still do, tell me to cool it. - Steve :o

Firestarter
01-27-2005, 01:46 PM
Keep it coming, this is the best read that has been on here in a long long time.

RT

seeroy
01-27-2005, 02:18 PM
I Don't remember exactly when this event occured but it really doesn't matter. I drove the midnight shift endurance for 9 straight months. That was a lot better than rotating through shifts every week. Actually I eventually got used to it and enjoyed it. We used to do a lot of reading while driving endurance. I must have read a hundred books during that 9 months. I took one of those little 12 volt lamps that you strap to your head and attached a long cord with alligator clips on the end. I could reach under the deck and attach them to the terminals on the back of the boat headlight switch. Joe Anderson told us not to read while driving but we did it anyway. Early one morning as the sun was coming up and I was cruising along at full speed, I sensed a presence. I looked to my right, and there was Joe tucked in about ten feet to my right. I don't know how long he had been there but when I looked up and saw him he just peeled off. I thought I was in trouble, but he never even said a word about it. On another occasion, I had driven to Miami and back during the day to pick up a boat for the Company. I got back to the Lake just in time to start my midnight shift at 11:30PM. Usually you would settle into an almost trance-like state during the night. Sometimes you didn't even remember the last couple of laps. I think it was about 3:00AM as I was going down the backstretch that I observed an overpass over the trees at the end of the lake and I was headed for it when a Greyhound Bus passed me on the right. WOW! That woke me up. Several guys ran into the trees while driving the night shift. That usually resulted in getting sent down the road with your bags. Fortunately, I never had that experience. However, I came very close one night. We were testing the prototype Super-Speedmasters. We had two Merc 6's (I don't remember if they were 1250's or 1350's) on the back of a 19' S-22 and it ran in the mid 60's, which can be kind of neat in the middle of the night. When you pulled out of the slip at Lake X, you would cross the course and do a left 270 degree turn onto the course. I guess I zoned out a little early one night because I pulled out of the slip and just went straight. The lake is only about 1/2 mile wide at that point, so it didn't take long before I was staring at trees, but only for about 1/2 of a second. Boat Racers always turn left (By the way, so do Fighter Pilots) and that's what I did. Rather abruptly I might add. Seems that the boat didn't want to cooperate and responded by swapping ends. Naturally, when the boat went hard left, my body kept going straight. At least until my head met the gunwale. A few seconds later I came to my senses and discovered that I was still in the boat with my head under the well and the engines were screaming as the props cavitated about a foot behind me. I managed to get up and pull the throttles back. I eased back across the Lake and into the slip and told the midnight Mechanic (Ed Luthie) that I had a bodacious headache. I sat down for awhile with an ice pack on my head and then went back out on the lake for the rest of the night. At least I didn't end up in the trees. Anyway, that's one more stupid act the turned into a good story. For the next story, I was not in a boat, but if you were at the Offshore Worlds in Key West one year you might have witnessed it. :o :rolleyes: Best Regards - Steve

seeroy
01-27-2005, 03:02 PM
Next Stupid Act. Fast forward a decade or more. Bill is with Al Copeland (Popeyes) and they are making a go at the Offshore Worlds in Key West. By then I had left the world of Boat Racing and had entered a different world. In 1970 I had attended USAF pilot training. That was an interesting year at Craig AFB in Selma, Alabama. I could talk about that and the next 28 years forever. Next I checked out in the F-102 and flew it with the Florida Air National Guard in Jacksonville for 3 years before transitioning into the F-106. If you want to know a little about the Six just type F-106 Delta Dart into Google. What an incredible machine. Single engine, single seat and Mach 2. They didn't call it the Cadillac of fighters for nothing. I had the ethereal pleasure of flying the Six for 10 years before kidney stones said no more single seat fighters for you Bub. After that I flew 3 different transports (C-131, C-130, C-26) for another 14 years. Anyway, Back to Key West. I managed to wrangle a Six to go to Key West NAS (Boca Chica) on a "very important mission". I bummed a ride to Truman Annex and spent the next several hours with Bill in the pits. After which I went back to Boca Chica and fired up my trusty aluminum Dart. I took off VFR (Visual Flight Rules) and headed about 20 miles South. Let me interject something here. You have got to understand that NORAD was a little bit nervous about any unknown low and fast movers approaching from the South. Remember Cuba is only 90 miles South of Key West and they had Mig's. Since I had descended to about 300', turned North and pumped it up to about 600 Knots, I definately met that criteria. It didn't take long before I had the pits in my sight. Once I had reached about 1/2 half mile out, I lit the afterburner and pulled straight up. You have to understand that the Six is an incredibly loud aircraft when in full afterburner. My guess is that several corpses in the graveyard sat bolt upright to see what the Hell was going on. I rolled over on my back at 15,000' and filed an IFR clearance to Jax. Naturally, after the thrill had worn off, I began to see my flying carrer going down the drain. Once again I had acted on a stupid impulse. This time I was screaming at myself in much the same way that Pete Brogan and Phil Schenk had done in earlier stories. However, for the next several years, I heard comments about the crazy SOB that attacked the Offshore Worlds. The unbelievable thing is that, I was neither caught nor killed. Once again luck was with me. To this day, I still do something stupid once in awhile. But never again anything that stupid. :eek: :eek: :rolleyes: -Steve

Trikki1010
01-27-2005, 03:32 PM
I have a few older uncles (some not with us) that trained on PT's and graduated to P-51's. When they would ferry from base to base as needed, they would deviate from their course in order to drop "flour bombs" on their brothers farms.

Quite the site when one is bailing hay...lol

AND another foolish moment when one holds one's breathe in a questionable career move. ;)

Imagine some of the kids trying today, the things WE got away with when younger :rolleyes:

Great "truths" ie: non-fictional, stories= fictional ;)

seeroy
01-27-2005, 03:36 PM
OK, the next act did not include me. I think this occurred in the mid 60's. I was no longer driving endurance. I had been away from the lake for a few days for some reason I don't remember. I walked into the shop to find out that there had been a collision on the North end of the lake during the previous night and Jim Prey was missing. Jim was one of the Wisconsin guys that had come down to drive endurance. He was well liked among the folks. He was one of those that was just a really nice guy. Let me say at this point that I don't know who did what, but apparently someone had decided to turn their headlights off and run the opposite direction on the course to scare the pants off of someone else. As you might have surmised from some of my earlier stories, such acts were not unheard of. We were always trying to sneak up on each other and throw something (like a rotten banana) at or wash the other guy down. Anyway, the tactic turned tragic when they had a glancing blow and Jim was ejected into the dark water of Lake X. Since it was the middle of Winter he was wearing heavy Winter coveralls. We immediatly began to drag the bottom from several boats and motorized barges. This went on for about 3 days and nights. I was assigned to one of the barges with 2 other guys. By then Jim's family had flown in from Wisconsin and was sadly waiting for the recovery. During the search we must have hooked hundreds of logs off of the bottom and we were always a little nervous when we pulled something up. It would ususlly pop up 50 or a hundred feet behing us and we would pull in the next log. On in the wee hours of night 3 we hooked another one but this time it was Jim. It was another one of those images that will be forever burned in my brain. By the time we got back to the boat slip, word had spread and Jim's brother was waiting in the gloom for us. Someone convinced him to move away a bit since it was not a pretty sight. We loaded him into an ambulance and they left us all standing there in the night surrounded by utter sadness. I don't know what transpired after that event, but I think things tightened up considerably. That's all for today. Maybe some more tonight. Remembering this event has left me a little down. For the past couple of years Iris has been a hospice Nurse and we have talked alot about events that she has been a part of. After awhile you get over the shock of it, but it never gets easy. :( Don't worry, I promise that the next story will be fun. :rolleyes: -Steve

Bruce Washburn
01-27-2005, 05:24 PM
Steve, these have been some great stories I hope you keep them coming. I know you mentioned in a previous post that EC fired Bill several times in one day. From what I understand Bill was one of the few people that could stand up to the Old man and live to tell about it. I guess both of them had a pretty good temper at times.
I had also heard a story about Janish getting fired one day and getting hired back the next day during the Drift r Cruise Houseboat run by EC. I think your brother suggested to Doug to stand up to EC. Ops!!! Janish got hired back the next day at a Press Conference for the return trip south.
It sounds like you guys went through some vehicles as well, while at the lake, and that a few Cars went into the ditch on Old Melbourne Hwy. Any drag races on the air strip?
Keep the Stories coming.
Bruce Washburn

seeroy
01-27-2005, 06:42 PM
Bruce - Thanks for reminding me about one of the most incredible survival stories I've ever heard. 1st let me bring others up to speed on the background of your previous post. Once again I cannot put a date on it and it would be much better (and more accurate) if told by either Doug or Larry. Mr. Kiekhaefer (or maybe it was Joe Swift)somehow decided that it would be a great PR gambit to pull a group of very attractive skiers behind a Drifter-Cruise houseboat powered (I think) by 4 Mercruiser 160's. Since Doug Janisch was a top notch mechanic and organizer (Man I hope Doug doesn't see this) he became the driver of record. I don't know who else ran the boat with him, but 6 lovelies came along to do the skiing, sometimes all six at once. One of them was Alice, Doug's future bride. Anyway, the schtick was to pull the ladies all the way up the Mississippi from Nawlins' to the Great Lakes and continue up through the St. Lawrence Seaway. I'm not sure if they ended it there, came down the East Coast, or went back the way they came. Once the Loooong trip was over the boat and Doug ended up back in Nawlins'. I think he was then supposed to transit the Gulf of Mexico to St Pete, which by my calculation is 450 mile straight line. I don't know who else was with him other than Larry Smith. Larry was and still is a photographer of considerable reknown. He took many photos of Offshore racing and later also took many for us in the Florida Air National Guard. Larry had injured a leg or ankle and was wearing a cast on his lower leg. They set out across the Gulf on calm seas that had a surprise for them. Somewhere in the middle of the Gulf and the middle of the night. An incredible storm blew up and Larry got seasick so he went in the back and hit the sack. Yes there were beds onboard. Doug and Crew fought against the seas for hours just to survive. Somewhere along they way Doug sent someone back to check on Larry. Much to everyones dismay, Larry was gone. I have been in situations where someone just disappears. It is probably the most helpless feeling in the world. Anyway, they sent out a distress signal to the Coast Guard and doubled back on their course. Now, I can tell you this. I have searched for boats at sea from the air during the daylight and in pretty decent weather. It is extremely tough even under good conditions. You can only imagine what it would be in extreme weather, in the dark, in the middle of the Gulf and you have no idea when or where he went overboard. Add to it that you are fighting to even keep your own vessel afloat. Meanwhile put yourself in Larry's situation. Suddenly your are overboard in the aformentioned conditions with only an inadequate life preserver and that is it. The lights of the boat quickly disappear and now you are alone. The cast on your leg is now water logged and is making it very difficult to stay above the water, and getting worse with time. Larry is one of those guys that is a born survivor. I'm not talking about one of these chicken s--t TV programs either. This is the real thing. Many people would have just given up and taken the big gulp. Not Larry. He remembers that he has his car key in his pocket. He very carefully extracts it and taking big breaths, ducks under and starts to saw away at the cast with the key. Good God Larry, don't drop the key! After some time and Hurculean effort he manages to cut the cast away and is now more bouyant. But he is still up a creek without a paddle. Meanwhile the sun is starting to lighten the sky and the Coast Guard has entered the search. I'm not sure about any of these details or how long it took, but I think it was Doug that finally found Larry and pulled him aboard. I've always believed that attitude and perseverence are the most important characteristics of survival. I think even Ernest Shackleton would have been impressed with this event. I think Larry still lives here in Jacksonville so I will try to locate him to get a better handle on this story. Meanwhile, if anyone out there is in touch with Doug, and you can get him to talk about it, pick his brain and fill us all in. Also ask him if he's eaten any skrimps lately. :rolleyes: -Steve

T2x
01-27-2005, 06:58 PM
Steve:

You are where I was about 4 years ago.....new to this type of thing and laying it out there for anyone to read and enjoy.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12464

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14410

This stuff is terrific...and a credit to both you and your brother....who was a friend of mine.

Post away...you're damn good at it!..... and it's a lot better than reading about the cheapest way to buy used outboard parts.....

T2x

P.S.....Got any tidbits about the Lake X "motel"?

seeroy
01-27-2005, 07:49 PM
Sometime during my life at Lake X Ralph Seavey showed up from Sarasota to drive endurance. Ralph had been a good friend all through Sarasota High School and I was really glad to see him at the lake. We had many adventures over the years and I always appreciated his friendly ways. During his first week at the lake he was on the day shift which handed off to the swing shift which ran until 11:30 and then handed off to the midnight shift. This was during my 9 straight month stint on the midnight shift. Meanwhile some of Freddy Kiekhaefer's college friends were at the lake to drive endurance for the Summer. Mr. Kiekhaefer was always very friendly toward guys that were working their way through college and that included me. For that and many other things I will always be grateful to him. Anyway, one of Freddy's friends asked Ralph if he would like to take his place on the swing shift so he could go out with friends to sample a bit of that famous St Cloud nightlife. Or maybe they were going to Cocoa Beach which was always a favorite of ours. Soooo..Ralph said sure, I can handle 16 straight hours on the lake. In reality, we had all done that, and more, on many occasions. Well one of the great fun tricks (besides coating the inside of a newcomers bag lunch sandwich with multi-purpose grease) was to roll a banana on a surface until the inside turned to mush and then throw it at the other guy as you went by him in the middle of the night. What a great splat it made if you were right on target at 40mph. I once got hit by a catfish thrown by my brother while he and Chet Strickland were poaching the lake in the middle of the night. Boy, there is another great story that I'll get to some other time. Back to Ralph....I had reported to work and had walked out to the base of the old tower with a nicely mushed banana to blast Ralph as he turned off of the course at he end of this lap. I saw his lights coming up the West side of the lake and they slowly drifted further to the West and toward the trees. There was a spit off land that jutted about 100' out in the lake where the Grumman Goose (amphibian aircraft) could exit the lake onto a ramp. The spit of land was protected by a wooden seawall that stuck up about 2 or 3 feet above the surface of the water. You guessed it. Ralph had drifted off into the Lake X coma. The next thing I knew his headlights suddenly shot straight up into the air and there was one hell of a boom. Needless to say this awakened Ralph from his comatose state and he wondered how he had somehow suddenly bocome an aviator. Albeit for a very short flight. He completely cleared the spit of landed and plopped into the lake on the other side. Along the way he had gathered a rather impressive hole in the bottom of the boat and rid himself of one of those pesky sterndrives. Meanwhile the mid-shift mechanic (Gene...sorry can't remember his last name) was already in the rescue boat and headed out the slip to retrieve Ralph before he sank. For my part, there I stood with a perfectly good mushed banana in my hand and nobody to blast. Soooo...when Ralph came into the mouth of the slip on the end of a tow rope, I figured, what the hell? and let fly. I think I got him pretty good. Ralph went off to nurse his wounded ego and I ran my midnight shift. The next morning Joe Anderson arrived back at the Lake from one of his forays to Sarasota. After he had been informed of the previous nights excitement he beckoned Ralph to follow him. Remember, this is the end of Ralp's very first week in the employ of the Kiekhaefer Corp and he was already in deep kimchee. Being a good and loyal friend that only wanted to blast ralph with a banana the night before, I walked with him and Joe to survey the damage to the boat which was now on a dolly. We all three bent over to look at the bottom of the boat and then Joe stood back up and said, "Ralph, I think you better go pack your bags". Ralph was devastated. I think it was Freddy that came to his defense and explained to Joe that Ralph had just been trying to be a good guy and took the other guys shift which resulted in 16 straight hours on the lake. Joe relented and Ralph spent several years at the lake and raced many a good race. Circa 1978 I got a call late in the evening from Ralphs brother Kenney. Kenney's exact words were, "Steve, I got out of bed this morning and walked out into the living room. Ralph was sitting there in a rocking chair stiff as a f---ing board." Good-bye too early to another true and good friend. We've all said too early Good-byes to too many friends. :( Later Gators - Steve

seeroy
01-27-2005, 08:15 PM
T2x - I was standing next to the motel with mushed banana in hand the night that Ralph gained the name of "Seawall Seavey". For those of you that are interested, the motel was under the old timing tower. It consisted of 6 or 8 one room....motel rooms. VIPs would be invited to stay there. Mr kiekhaefer always stayed in the Northern most one when he was there and Joe Anderson always stayed in the Southern most one. When running endurance one would see (usually very late) Joe's headlights pull in by his room. He would then stand there in the dark for awhile before he turned in. When Mr. Kiekhaefer was there, one would often see him standing on the seawall in front of his room just as the morning light was beginnig to show. When we finished our shift we would go to the dining room and Joe Dumbolton (the morning chef) would fix us whatever we wanted. Mr Kiekhaefer would almost always come to breakfast while we were in there and he would always have a few kind words. There were 4 round tables (this was in the original kitchen in the old building) and he would sit in the corner at the executive table. I heard some of the most amazing conversations that you could imagine in that kitchen. The food at Lake X was incredible. Mr Kiekhaefer often had the best possible steaks flown in from Wisconsin for "his boys". Sometimes he would do elaborate cookouts for us and he would personally do the cooking. God, those days were great! :) -Steve

seeroy
01-27-2005, 08:16 PM
Sorry..Thats T2X, not TX2
:D -Steve

seeroy
01-27-2005, 08:36 PM
Tx2 - just read your links back to your first posts. Loved it. I think I need to peruse my way back through alot of old posts or threads or whatever they are called. Here's another one of my "I've always believed".

I've always strongly believed that the best medicine for a man is to have a good laugh at himself. Anyone that is incapable of laughing at himself has his underwear on too tight. :D -Steve

Markus
01-28-2005, 07:35 AM
This is terrific reading. Keep it coming. And welcome to S&F.

Chummy
01-28-2005, 08:59 AM
Best reading I have done in a while keep it up I LOVE it :D :D

seeroy
01-28-2005, 12:18 PM
Mr. Kiekhaefer had his own one man private Air Force at Lake X in the '60's. It consisted of Izzy Lashmore, a Grumman Goose (amphibian)and a Cessna 310. Occasionally, the Company Beechcraft would fly in from Wisconsin and in later years the Company had a Bizjet that would drop in. Visitors would also fly in on occassion, but only with prior permission. The numbers on each end of the 5,000' asphalt runway were X'ed over, which is the symbol for a closed runway. Izzy was a bespectacled, mostly bald guy in his late 50's or early 60's. He usually seemed a little cantankerous, but in reality he was a pussycat. I got to fly with him in the Goose once and that further sparked my interest in aviation. He didn't always do everything exactly right. On at least one occasion he landed on the lake and forgot to lower the gear before taxiing out of the water onto the ramp and got stuck in the mud at the base of the ramp. We had to attach a tow rope from a boat and pull him back into the lake so he could extend the wheels. On another occasion (Christmas Day, I think) he landed gear-up on the asphalt runway with Mr. Kiekhaefer and family onboard. It didn't do any significant damage but the keel left a very nice groove down the center of the runway. In the world of aviators that fly retractable gear aircraft there is an old saying. "There are those that have landed gear-up, and those that will.". Fortunately, in 7,500 hours of pilot time, I never experienced that bit of excitement. The Lake X property had been designated as a game preserve and was teeming with wild life (Both Animal and Human). Mr. Kiekhaefer had also imported some elegant Japanese deer and you would often see them feeding on the East side of the lake early in the AM. Among other things, there were deer, alligators, wild turkeys, wild pigs. One one occasion I rode around the perimeter road, which was about 17 miles, and counted over 100 deer. When driving on the lake at night, our headlights would illuminate the alligators eyes. They were everywhere. Bill ran over a gator in front of the tower one night. The collision tore the transom loose and destroyed two lower units. The next morning the gator was found dead on the shore with two prop tracks across his back. Apparently he was HUGE. I heard numbers like 12-14'. On this issue it would be prudent to remember my previous post about boatracers, fishermen and fighter pilots being the greatest liars in the world. OK.....I have really gotten off the point. On a number of occassions, poachers would climb the fence and sneak back into the woods. In doing so they would leave tracks across the dirt road and this would be noticed by the security patrol. More than once the call came from Mr. Kiekhaefer to, "Scramble Izzy". Izzy would launch as quickly as possible and conduct an aerial search. Other times he would conduct a dawn patrol. I don't know if he ever found anybody, but it created alot of excitement. One evening I was enjoying the St Cloud night life in the J&A Bar when a very large cowboy sat down on the stool next to me. He looked over at me and asked, "Do You work for Mecury?". I responded, "Indeed I do". To which he replied, " I oughta Kill you". It seems that, while cruising along the Lake X road, one of his dogs "accidently" got on the other side of the fence, went into the woods and was never seen again. The friendly spirit of the J&A had a way of making everybody happy. I bought him a beer and we became great friends for the next couple of hours. I heard that one evening Mr. Kiekhaefer was in the J&A when someone said something disparaging about somebody at the Lake. I understand the Mr. K immediately and loudly came to the defense of "his boys". My experience with him led me to belive that he nearly always came to our defense on contentious issues. I will guarantee you that we were not always worthy of that defense. Back to the point...Each year when hunting season rolled around, hunters would cruise up and down the Lake X road waiting for deer to jump the fence and cross the road, at which point they would blast away. One year, we took the mufflers off of all the vehicles and continuously drove around to scare the deer back away from the fence. In the near future, I will write about fishing in Lake X. That story will involve different episodes with brother Bill, Chet Strickland, myself, Joe Dumbolton, Mabry Edwards and Florida Governor Haydon Burns. ;) Later Gators - Steve

Powercat
01-28-2005, 01:37 PM
Steve:
The stories are great, keep it up !!
Everytime my dad went to Lake X he would come back with some
of the darndest stories.... Never knew what to make of some of
them, as my dad was a racer and a fisherman, but looks like most
were based on fact!!
Danny Leger

seeroy
01-28-2005, 04:01 PM
Believe me Danny, some of the stories are hard to believe, but true. One of the problems I have when telling stories is as follows; After I have been talking for awhile and realize how preposterous some of the stories sound, I start to worry that the recipients will probably start to think this is all BS. As I said in my first post, I may not remember everything exactly how it happened and I might occasionally embelish a little bit. But it is only a very little bit. With that in mind, let me talk about fishing on Lake X. Imagine yourself as the only fisherman on a pristine Florida lake with 7 1/2 miles of shoreline. The entire shoreline is populated by Cypress trees that stand in the water. Someone has provided a fishing boat/motor/gas and spinning rods/reels at no cost to you. There are numerous little coves and areas of lilly pads. Birds and alligators are everywhere. That's what it was like for us every day. Quite often I would get off of my shift in one boat, walk 10' and get in another boat, motor out of the slip and I was in Fisherman's Heaven. In amatter of minutes I could be wetting a line in front of some of the best lunker Bass imaginable. I was never an accomplished fisherman and therefore wasn't also that successful. However, early one morning I did see Joe Dumbolton (the morning chef) pull into the boat slip see excited he could barely speak with an 11# Large Mouth Bass on his stringer. The first time I met Mabry Edwards, he was standing in the boat shop with Florida Governor Haydon Burns. They had just flown in and were headed out onto the lake to fish. Mabry was the Governor's personal pilot and he later became the guy that funneled me into USAF pilot training. This is another one of the people that I will forever be grateful to. I will tell that story some other time, but it involves Myself, Ted Jones, Ralph Seavey and cutting a boat in half longitudinally. Mabry was a long time boat racer from Jacksonville and a very close friend of Mr. Kiekhaefer. Don't quote me on this one, but somewhere I got the idea that Mabry designed and built the first speedmaster lower unit. Let me switch gears......Some of my earlier stories involved doing stupid things that could have ended everything. Well, I wasn't the only one that performed such acts. Seems that two people that were living right next to me on the property were having great fun in the middle of the night running a neat little enterprise. They managed to acquire many fish traps and, using the aforementioned company provided fishing boat, would sneak along the shoreline in the dead of night placing them. They where hauling in more catfish than you cold imagine. They would pull the boat up next to our trailer and unload the catfish into the trunk of their cars and deliver to a market in Kissimmee. I think they made out pretty good. The next morning the boat would stink like hell from the fish meal they would bait the traps with. Also they stored the meal under our trailer and it began to stink horribly. One night as I was running endurance around 3:00AM, a catfish bounced off of my windshield and flew over my head. I could barely see the Lake X catfish poachers at the edge of my vision as they were laughing so hard the nearly fell out of the boat. Who were these mysterious men. Let's just say that one of them might have been my brother (Bill Sirois) and the other might have been Chet Strickland. Mind you, I said it might have been them. I think they finally wised up and ceased their entrepreneurial efforts before somebody said, "What the hell is that smell?". :D :D -Steve

Yamaha 225
01-28-2005, 04:11 PM
I only wished they had digital cameras in the 50- and 60-ties.... There are alot of pics from the birth of the automotive industry, but not so much from the boatworld (outboards). Old engines are always cool!! Mercury is king on this field and the still are!

Good job!

Have anyone got some pics???

Have a good day!

Mark75H
01-28-2005, 06:21 PM
I don't know if Mabry Edwards was involved with making the Speedmasters, but he definitly was behind the Martin HS 60 racing lower unit built before Merc made their first "Quick Silver" racing lower unit.

Most Merc employees had to give over patent rights for anything they came up with while working for Mercury to Carl. Carl's name is on almost all of the patents issued in the name of the Kiekhaefer Mercury company. One of the very few employee's to have their name on patents is Charlie Alexander. His name is on most of the Speedmaster type stuff from the late 1950's thru the 1960's.

With Edwards' experience with the Martin racing lower unit, there would be no reason to doubt he was at least a contributor to the other racing lower unit's development.


Keep bringing on the cool stuff, Steve! I love it! :)

seeroy
01-28-2005, 09:58 PM
Thanks Sam - I had forgotton that they were Quicksilver units earlier. As to Mabry, I had only heard that he had some kind of proto unit early on. When it comes to the really technical stuff, I could never hold a candle to any of you guys on this site. Some day soon, I will tell you just how mad Odell Lewis got at me one day over a technical issue. Also, I could never have held a candle to Bill when if came to detail in boats. I don't know if you ever had the opportunity to watch him rig one. He was like a very tempremental but very talented artist. The thing I do know is that I loved to run the boats and I love to tell the stories about those years. It is such a pleasure to be in touch with that part of my life again after all these years. I have sooooo many more events to write about but I can't write any more tonight. Later Gators :D -Steve

seeroy
01-28-2005, 10:09 PM
As Officer Tooty would say, OOOH OOOH....I just remembered a couple of things I want to tell about, but I can't do it tonight. It involves John Flood's 7 cylinder Cadillac and Gene Berg's 14 piece kneecap, I promise that for next time...hopefully tomorrow.
;) -Steve

Fish
01-28-2005, 10:15 PM
Man - I Have So Many Pics Of Me My Dad And Swebbie At Lake X , Wish I Had A Scanner

I have a scanner.

Seeroy, great post, thank you.

seeroy
01-30-2005, 02:48 PM
Mr. Kiekhaefer had placed 6 or 8 house trailers on the North side of the boat slip. When I first got there three of them were occupied by families, (Wayne Meyer, Johnny Bakos, Dean Schallenberger). The rest were occupide by single men. I moved into the "Triple O" trailer with Chet Strickland and Phil Schenk. We each had a bedroom just large enough for a double bed. There might have been 1' beside the bed and there was a small closet. There was a small kitchen and living room that had two beds in it. Occasionally someone else would occupy those beds. For awhile John Flood did so. John was one of the many Wisconsin guys that would come to the lake to drive endurance. He had arrived with an old Cadillac V8 that was as old as dirt and closely related to it. Apparently he popped a piston or some such malfunction which caused an impressive loss of compression and poor performance. He didn't have any money for repairs so he came up with a rather unique solution. Now I have to tell you that I did not actually see this repair made with my own eyes. Anyway, he dropped the oil pan, removed the head from that bank and disconnected the piston from the crankshaft and removed it. Then somehow filled the vacant cylinder with concrete. Yes, I said concrete. He had created the first 7 cylinder Cadillac. I don't know what transpired next, but if he ever got it running, it must have been real smooth. ...............Gene Berg was also a Wisconsin guy (Appleton to be exact). Gene was another of those fun guys to be around. He and I ran an Offshore race together that would prove to be both the beginning and end of his career as a race driver. This was early in the '60s as the sophistication of our rigging was not very pretty. We were assigned a 19' T-craft with twin outboards to rig and run. The T-craft might have has a little vee in the bottom but it was without a doubt the hardest ride I have ever been in. Every bump would jar your teeth. All we had for protection was a series of aluminum stanchions and railings to hang onto. We had what was probably a 100 gallon gas tank held in place by aluminum angle and poured foam. Anyway the race was to run out of West Palm to Freeport and back (?). It was another of those days when small craft warnings should have been flying. We made it through the Lake Worth inlet and into these huge seas. Gene was driving and I was hanging on for dear life. The second or third bone jarring monster that we encountered sent us both to our knees (everybody ran Offshore standing up in those days). I managed to regain my feet and looked over at gene. The entire inside of his helmet visor was covered with blood. He managed to barely regain his feet. He raised his visor and spit out several teeth. At that point I thought he had just eaten the steering wheel. Unbeknownst to me he had also clobbered his left knee on the gas tank frame. I asked him if he was OK and he nodded yes and took off. The next wave was not quite as bad but it was still nasty. Gene came down off of a plane and told me I would have to take over. I asked him if he really wanted to continue in his condition. He said yes, so I got it back up and off we went. It only took one more monster before he screamed in pain and said that he just could not go any further. I headed back in at idle speed and radioed that I had an injured man on board. Mr. Kiekhaefer met us at the dock with an ambulance and Gene was lifted out of the boat. Later Mr. K visited him in the hospital and made sure that he had the best of care and that the bill was fully taken care. Several broken teeth had to be surgically removed and his left kneecap was removed in 14 pieces. Mr. Kiekhaefer asked him what he wanted to do and Gene replied that he had always wanted to be a truck driver. And so, from that point on he was a Kiekhaefer Corp. truck driver. I have no idea what ever became of Gene but I will always remember him standing there with blood all over his visor, spitting out teeth and saying to me, "Let's keep going". At that point we had only gone about 5 miles of a 200 mile race. We were all young then and we thought we were invincible. Somebody once aske me what it was like to race offshore in those days. I told them to place a ladder against their house, climb up on the roof, jump off, and continue to do that for several hours and they might understand what the physical part of it was like. I stand by that explanation to this day. But, damn, it sure was fun! :D -Steve

gofish7070
02-01-2005, 01:24 PM
Wasn"t at the lake nearly as long as you seeroy,,,,,,But totally enjoy your humor and all the stories, your memory is awesome,,, Name is Jim Hauser,,was at X from "64-"66 than back to Wisconsin and back to the lake a couple of times,,,,,, Ran midnight shift with you and Gene Berg a couple of months,Think a big guy named George worked the tower,,,,,,,,, As I have remained in the marine business not a time goes buy when I am not gratefull and draw on my boating practical experiences learned while at X. As I was fresh out of high school and ready to whip the world,,,,,,My father ( an exec with Merc A.A. Hauser) along with Mr. K. sent me to Lake X, Will never forget getting out of the airplane and feeling my first blast of Florida Humidity I thought my God My father sent me to Hell,,,,,Repeated those same feelings a few years later however this time it was Southeast Asia and it was Hell,,,,,,,, With such fond memories Lake X everyone their was just special.........I was just so fortunate to be their with such a great group of guys,,, On a sad note I read your story regarding Jim Pray, I was standing on the dock when your boat bought him in he was a friend of mine and it was just a real sad sad day,,,,,,,,Keep the stories up I know their are amillion of them Thanks Go fish 7070 :) :)

seeroy
02-01-2005, 05:14 PM
Jim - I remember you very clearly. If I were an artist (which I am not) I could draw a picture of you right now. Thank you for your kind words about my stories. In the near future I will post a list of names that I remember from those years and ask that anyone that knows what became of them respond. Thanks again Jim and Best Regards - Steve

seeroy
02-01-2005, 05:52 PM
Once again not sure of the date but the event was the 6 and 9 hour marathons in the Miami Marine Stadium. Anyway, one of the best boats to drive on endurance at the Lake was a 21' Ted Jones catamaran with twin outboards. It ran approximately 50mph and was a sweet ride. There were two tandem cockpits located in the center of the boat. The driver sat in the front cockpit. The 6 hour was an Outboard only event and the 9 hour was both outboard and inboard. Bill grabbed the Jones cat and installed extra fuel to allow enough to run 9 hours unrefueled. He also moved the drivers seat to the back cockpit which moved the center of gravity rearward. He ran this boat in the 6 hour. I don't remember how he did but I think John Culver won with a Duo. Anyway, I was to run the Jones cat in the 9 hour. Having run this boat comfortably for long hauls I felt totally able to run the whole event nonstop and have the advantage of not having to do a pit stop. Unfortunately I had never run the boat with a full fuel load. I left the pits and idled to the milling area on the North end of the course. There I tried unsuccesfully to get it up on a plane. The CG was just too far aft. As we sometimes did, I climbed out on the bow and jumped up and down trying to get it to fall over. No luck. Meanwhile the race had started and I was now approaching the grandstand pulling a monster wake trying to get on a plane. No doubt the huge wake created some spectacular sights as other boats launched off of it. I'm also quite certain that some rather spectacular oaths were hurled my way. Finally I pulled into the pits and picked another guy (don't remember who) to help jump up and down on the bow with the plan that, once we got on a plane, he would jump out of the boat and swim ashore. We were still not able to get it up and every time I pulled back on the throttles the following wake would wash over the transom slowly swamping the boat. At last all hope was lost and we idled back into the pits. Unable to get the boat onto the trailer someone hatched the plan to place a large round post under the bow, attach a rope to the bow eye, attach the other end to the front bumper of a truck and pull the boat up over the post which would roll under the boat. Sounded like a good plan. I advanced throttles to full as the truck driver gave it everything in reverse. It didn't take long for the bow eye to give up the ghost and depart the boat at an amazing rate of speed which propelled it completely through the trucks radiator. Oh, just in case I forgot to tell you, Mr. Kiekhaefer was standing on the fueling dock watching this comedy of errors. He just shook his head in disgust and walked away. Everyone else was laughing so hard they were crying. Once again, I managed to not get fired. To this day I do not know why Mr. Kiekhaefer never spoke a cross word to me. I certainly deserved it on numbr of occassions.
:confused: -Steve

Mark75H
02-01-2005, 07:14 PM
Steve is this the boat?

seeroy
02-01-2005, 09:12 PM
It's been a long time, but it looks like it? Also it looks like Johnny Bakos in the front and Odell Lewis in the back.:) -Steve

seeroy
02-01-2005, 09:14 PM
I don't know Sam? That boat looks smaller than I remember.

:confused: -Steve

Fish
02-01-2005, 09:21 PM
Steve, thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us, the stories are Great.

fish

lilabner
02-01-2005, 09:40 PM
That's a Powercat Sam..I think it is this one..the Jones was (I'm pretty sure) the pace boat at the 6 hour at Lake X..These were taken in May 60 in Miami at my wife's house...

lilabner
02-01-2005, 09:53 PM
heck the fins on the car hooked to the trailer..Johnny had a 59 and 60 Plymouth..both with big cross ram engines he got from EC...He swapped engines in them because he liked the 59 better.(I think that was how it went)..anyway he decided to go to the drags while he was here and turned something like 14.5 in his tow car...got that picture too just can't find it..here's a couple more shots

lilabner
02-01-2005, 09:58 PM
another one

seeroy
02-01-2005, 10:01 PM
Butch - Do you know where Johnny is now? I saw something that was posted not too long ago about someone seeing him at the Reno Air races....I think.
-Steve

seeroy
02-01-2005, 10:04 PM
That last picture is definately not the boat I ran. Too small-Steve

lilabner
02-01-2005, 10:05 PM
This is what Steve means..

seeroy
02-01-2005, 10:13 PM
Good God do I ever remember that tactic

lilabner
02-01-2005, 10:13 PM
Spoke to him about 5? years ago at a Miami boat show..still worked for Mercury and still had the same tough body he always had..hair just slightly gray..he said he was working for the Mercruiser unit and I think living in Wisconson..I heard he was retired now...somebody has to know..maybe T2X...

Butch

seeroy
02-01-2005, 10:23 PM
Thanks Butch - I know I say this about lots of guys, but Johnny really was a nice guy. I think his wife's name was (or is) Helen. Gotta go walk the dogs and then put my pink body in bed. I'm thinking about what to write about next. Sometimes when I do that (think) it hurts my brain, :D -Steve

lilabner
02-01-2005, 10:23 PM
I know EC had a couple Jones cats, but I only remember one race cat back then..this could be taps for it and maybe the one you ran..remember Bill riding the deck on it with George Thompson driving? Lucky Bill wasn't on it in this shot..
Butch

lilabner
02-01-2005, 10:36 PM
BTW..the last picture was taken by Linda Lovelace's boyfriend..Chuck Trainor...(back then)

mbd29
02-02-2005, 07:37 AM
John is doing fine living in Fond du lac. I see him once a month at QB meetings. I've been trying to get him to log on the the site.

2us70
02-02-2005, 02:00 PM
I an sure enjoying this thread. In those days I was a small time local privateer and was only exposed to the "Factory" race operation at the big races like the Gold Coast Marathon and the Orange Bowl 6 and 9 Hour events. It was something to see when the Mercury Factory boats came in force and I am enjoying reading the inside stories from those days. My one drive in a "Factory" connected boat was in the 66 9 Hour in Brooke Russel's Miami to New York boat wich had some factory backing. I had the misfortune to be in my first stint and struggling with a boat in which I had almost no seat time when Hank Bowman's fatal accident stopped the race. It is fun to hear that you guys didn't always have it all figured out either.

gofish7070
02-02-2005, 02:40 PM
Hey Steve,,,,Jim H. here again, nice to be remembered,,,,,when I first arrived at X was assigned trailer with your brother never forget walking in and in our kitchen spread eveywhere was a completely tore down 50 horse merc,,,,,,,,,I mean we had parts in the refrigerator, cabinets, bathroom everywhere. Asked Bill about it one day he said I think it was four his father he was rebuilding it... Yeah right,,,,,,,,,,,, Anyway thought you might enjoy a Gold Coast marathon story,I think it was "64 Had the pleasure of flying with Izzy, Fred K, Mr. K. and a couple of others on board the grumman goose while following the race,,It was spectacular as well as thrilling,,,,,,,,,Apologies to eveyone if I get the names wrong (over 40 years ago) Willnever forget the return leg from WPB to Miami everyone was off like a bullet I think a fellow name Lou Nuta,Boats named Roman Candle took the early lead ( an inboard hydroplane do not know what class) and he was really movin,,,,,,,,,,Mr K. was furious I swear if we would have had a bomb on board we would hace figured out a way to drop it,,,,,,,He just kept repeating Its over 400 cubes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Well all of sudden Dave Craig gets that old wooden Switzer flying Izzy had that goose flying as fast as the thing would go and Craig is pulling away (I think the darn plane cruised at about 95 land speed) It was truly spectacular to watch from the air,,,, At last he caught that hydro (which I think afterward did break down) and that airplane was just bouncing up and down Mr K was just beaming and I mean it was sweeet,,,,, He than instructed Izzy to circle back to find out where the rest of his boys are. Was a grat day for everyone ,,,Little did I know as lowly endurance drivers out at Lake X we were helping to shape outboard history,,,,,Hay Steve if you feel like it e-mail me hauserj7070@yahoo.com Thanks go fish7070

seeroy
02-02-2005, 03:23 PM
I had the fun of running in the first three Bahamas 500's. In the first one I rode with Wayne Vickers, and in the second with Jim Tebo. The third one evolved rather interestingly. While preparing a Lake X, I had drawn a 32' Cary with 4 BP's (BluePrint engines rated at approx 140hp) which ran about 67mph. This was a tried and true boat that Chet Strickland had previously run. I had run the boat out of Sarasota to do some rough water testing on the BP's. Ralph Seavey had drawn an exact copy of the boat but it was brand new. His boat clocked out at 65mph. About a week before we were to leave the lake we were called into the office for some interesting news. It seemed that Jerry Langer wanted to run Mercs in the 500. Jerry was an OMC dealer in the Miami area and had run that brand pretty succesfully. In fact, in probably one of the roughest offshore races ever run, only the Turbine Maritime boat and Langer had finished. There was an incredible photo in the paper of the Turbine standing nearly vertical at the Fowey Rocks light. Anyway, Langer had contacted somebody (I guess Mr. Kiekhaefer) and said he wanted to run one of our boats in the 500. As this was quite a PR coup it was approved. So Ralph and I were told that we would have to team up in one of our boats and Langer would get the other. Fortunately they let us decide which boat we wanted. Ralph's boat (#808) was new and slightly heavier and probably would do better in rough water. Mine (#909) was not new but was faster. We chose mine and I was the Driver of Record. The Bahamas 500 started at Freeport and ran 500 Nautical Miles (thats 560 statute miles) through the islands ending back at Freeport. I will tell some more about the race in a future post. Dale Thayer (Also Factory Team) was running 4 BP's on a 28' Memco which ran approx 68mph. We ran side by side and in the Outboard lead for all but the last ten miles. I'll get to that in a minute. From the very beginning we slowly pulled away from Langer, and we were not about to give him a break. Let me interject something here! I only raced on the Kiekhaefer Factory team for 4 or 5 years, but in that entire time I was never told, prior to a race, to hold back for anybody . Even if I had been directed to do so, I wouldn't have done it. Even though we all helped each other prepare, once the flag dropped, it was every man for himself. That is not to say that we did not stop to help out if the other guy needed it. As you will see in a minute, we did. Anyway, by the time we got to Nassau, which was the half way refueling point, Langer was probably 5 miles behind us. Mr. Kiekhaefer was on the dock and was visibly unhappy that we had run away from Langer. He said something like, "Why don't you guys give him a little break?". I replied, "OK" and put the hammers down. I'll be damned if I was going to hold back for an OMC dealer that had turned coat, or anybody else for that matter. Unfortunately, I got a short gas load and ran out 10 miles from the finish. Dale Thayer stopped with me and asked what was wrong. I told him to go on which he did. We raidoed our situation in and Mr. Kiekhaefer, who had flown on to Freeport, sent a helicopter out to us with just enough gas to finish. However it was not quick enough to stay ahead of Langer and he managed to eke out second place outboard behind Dale. Those were the days of REAL Offshore. :D -Steve

AnthonySS
02-02-2005, 03:50 PM
Thank you Mr. Sirois. This is an amzing read packed full off some good wisdom too.

Mark75H
02-02-2005, 05:24 PM
Merc sent out a ton of publicty photos of those boats

Here's #909, I'll have to dig a little to find #808, but I'm sure I have it somewhere. Pictures are great, but knowing the story behind the picture is incredible.

Thanks, Steve!

seeroy
02-02-2005, 05:31 PM
Sam - I'm the short on, Ralph's the tall one.....Looking back at Jerry Langer.:D -Steve

seeroy
02-02-2005, 08:50 PM
Bill was very detail oriented. But alot of that he learned from Johnny Bakos. They were teamed up for the 9 hour (Miami) one year. Johnny had latched onto a 20'-21'(?) Rayson Craft which I think was mostly rigged in California. He took Bill under his wing on this project. The boat was powered by a turbo-charged Chevy 427(I think). They did some of the work ar Plant 9(?) in St Cloud, so most of us did not see the boat until it was nearly ready. I had never seen such an immaculate craft. It was absolutely beautiful and I think if ran pretty good. I remember seeing it run at the Lake and at Miami but I don't remember how they did. The point is that I believe this was a defining point in Bill's racing career and Johhny was a great influence. Most of our boats ran well and fast but, in the beginning, they did not always look good. Whereas, Johnny's always did. Attention to detail, Attention to detail, Attention to detail! I wish that I had learned that lesson a little earlier in life. If you see Johnny out there, ask him about that boat. I'm not sure I got the details of this story correct, but Johnny can correct them. :) -Steve

gofish7070
02-03-2005, 10:25 AM
Hay Steve can help with info on on that turbocharged rayson-craft and your right that boat was gorgeous and meticulous,,,,,Anyway Bakos took the boat down to Miami Marine Stadium for the 9-hour, I dont think Bill co-drove with him as he had his own rig I think it was Buddy Boyle teamed up with John,,,,,About half way through the race a stud in a turbocharger let go effectivly eleminating the boost dropping the horsepower to about 250 the boat @wot wouldnt do more than about 40 miles per hour,,It was tragic watching these guys do their laps at that speed,,,,But asthat class had such few entries a decision was made to keep running to the finish,,,,,,,,,,After the race will never forget Bakos explaining That for a while he was side by side with some fellow in a Boston Whaler with a 50 merc on it But the guy cut him off in a corner and he couldn't catch it,,,,,,,,Later upon tear down at X the broken stud was found. Mr. K had it mounte on a piece of wood and displayed it in the shop with the message this inferior product is what cost us victory at the 9-hour marathon, it is why we dedicate our work here to researce to eliminate these products. As usual he hit the nail on the head,,,,,,,But man that boat was a thing of beauty,,,,Go fish 7070 :)

seeroy
02-03-2005, 02:59 PM
Thanks Jim - Now that you mention it, waaay back in my brain I vaguely remember something about that plaque. I only started two 9 hours and I get a little confused about who ran what and when. However, I do remember that one year we ran a practice 9 hour at the Lake to test the durability of lower units (super speedmasters?) on fiberglass Switzers. We ran several of them and I had the pleasure of participating. I remember the change in sound as the flap was lowered thus changing the shape of the airfoil and the boat began to fly. As it became airborne the sound of the hulls on the water would just cease. It was also really neat to go around the South end of the lake flying slightly sideways all the way around. Before we finished there was a large pile of units on the concrete next to the old tower. We popped quite a few. I don't remember who ran them at Miami except that I think Jim Harkins ran the only one that had a cockpit in the wing instead of the sponson. I think it was brown and white whereas the others were more colorful. I think that was the year I ran a Glastron /Mercruiser#1. I blew the blew the side out right at the chine and could see through it until I had to come in for gas. I was sinking at the fuel dock so I ran it up on the beach. Once again Mr. Kiekhaefer was not pleased as I had been leading inboard Class A by a wide margin and should have been running a little more conservatively. Consequently, a Volvo Penta won the Class. I guess I only knew one speed.....HAMMER DOWN! :D -Steve

runwhatchabrung
02-04-2005, 02:35 PM
I have worked around two guys here in NC, John Stenback and Marty Businger. I grew up at my dad's Merc dealership since I was five and have heard them tell stories about lake X. Do you remember them?

seeroy
02-04-2005, 10:28 PM
I absolutely remember John. He was a good friend and outstanding race driver. One night we all went to a party in St Cloud and I got a little crazy on the dance floor. The girl I was dancing with ran off screaming. So, John named me Taz after the Tazmanian Devil. The name stuck for awhile. I think he also had a brother that worked at the lake for awhile. The last time I saw John was at a tunnel boat race here in Jacksonville. If you see him, tell him I said Hi. I think I remember Marty but I don't have any stories about him. Maybe my memory will produce something eventually.


Best Regards -Steve Sirois

2us70
02-09-2005, 05:30 PM
I was always curious to know how you Factory guys got your driving assignments for the various races?

seeroy
02-12-2005, 04:12 PM
2us70 - Interesting question....I'm not sure I ever knew how it happened. I was pretty young and naive at the time, so I never had a clue about the internal politics of who got assigned which race boat. However I can lend some insight to what I did see. When I got there in 1962(?) I was there only to drive endurance along with 10-15 other guys. Eventually, I got off of endurance and worked in the boat shop with Jim Harkins. Odell Lewis, Johnny Bakos, George Thompson, Roy Ridgell, and my Brother were the primary race drivers. I know I am probably missing someone and will hear about it later. Joe Anderson was the Shop Boss but I don't think he had much control over the race operations. Those guys seemed, to me, to be pretty independent. However, I suspect that Mr. Kiekhaefer himself directed which of them would do what. I do know that they did not always get along real well with Joe and that was probably because of their direct connections to Mr. K.. As I remember, Odell and Johnny were primarily the inboard guys, while George, Roy and Bill were primarily outboard guys. Eventually Bill crossed over and ran both inboard and outboard. Also, it depended on whether they were running closed course, marathons, or offshore races.....When the Company went to a race with a large contingent, others got the opportunity to get in a race boat. That was usually the big races like the Gold Coast Marathon, Miami 6 and 9 hour, Miami-Nassau, and Bahamas 500. I think the GCM was my first factory race. As for offshore, one would first be assigned to be a co-driver. Which basically meant that you would hold on for dear life while the experienced guy drove. For my first offshore race, I rode with Wayne Vickers in a twin outboard Seacraft. That was the first Bahamas 500. Eventually, if you didn't screw-up too bad, you would get a boat of your own and some other poor sap would have to hold on for dear life. One of the most gratifying aspects of the whole process was the rigging of the boat. Often one would start with a bare hull, and I do mean a bare hull. I remember working with Jim Harkins in the boat shop on a small Glastron that I ran in a couple of races. We were presented with a drastically lightened hull that had only logitudinal stringers. We first cut the sides down some, then fabricated and installed bulkheads, installed fuel tanks, decked the boat and painted. Then I worked alone (with plenty of guidance from my brother and Odell) to install a Mercruiser 1 drive and 4 cylinder inboard engine as well as all of the controls and steering gear. Instead of the normal through prop exhaust, the manifold simply had a short (6") slanted open hot stack at the end. I don't know if it added any horsepower but it sure sounded neat. In some later races we ran the same exhaust setup with the 6 cylinder inboard in several small Donzi's. Alot of the rigging process was standardized, and yet we were allowed to innovate some. The experienced guys were allowed to innovate a whole lot. I think that there was very little secrecy amongst us. If someone came up with something that worked well, they almost always shared their idea. Also, we always helped each other with the actual work. I cannot tell you how many times I worked 24, 36 or even 48 hours straight. Sometimes you would finish rigging and propping out just in time to put the boat on a trailer and head for the race site. I had several drives to Miami with wet paint still on the boat. Just before leaving Lake X we were given boat, trailer and truck ownership papers in case we had any problems along the way. Or maybe it was so we could be entered as owner and driver in the race. Please remember that most of these memories are of events that occured 40+ years ago............I know that I have not answered you initial question of how we were assigned boats and races....I think my best answer would be, "I'll be damned if I know!". :) :) -Steve Sirois

seeroy
02-17-2005, 09:30 PM
It has occurred to me that, thus far, my stories have depicted me as a complete doofus. As I have said before, I was young and naive. I recently had the opportunity to drive the Old Narcoosee road from Orlando to Ashton and was amazed to see the roadside bar where I celebrated my 21st birthday (40years ago) was still there. However, I did manage to do some things correctly while a Lake X-ite. In 1969, I completed the Bahamas 500 in a 32' Cary w/4 BP's. Dale Thayer won the outboard class in that race in a 28' Memco w/4 BP's. In July of that year I got to run that Memco in the Sam Griffith Memorial. Once again Jerry Langer had convinced Mr. Kiekhaefer that it would be a good idea for an OMC dealer to run the Mercury Factory boat that he had run in the Bahamas 500. And, once again, I was determined to not let him win outboard. Somehow, I managed to talk Chet Strickland, who was much more experienced than I, to come along as my co-driver. As I remember, the Memco ran about 68mph. I knew we had a couple mph on Langer and we immediately took the outboard lead. This was a 200+ mile race and at about the 100 mile point one of the BP's developed a loss of a couple hundred rpm. At this point Langer was 2 or 3 miles behind us and was now gaining on us. We could keep running or stop and troubleshoot with the hope we could fix it and catch Langer if he got past us......OR we could try to fix it on the run. While I continued to drive, Chet climbed into the well and managed to remove the wrap around cowling while we were still running about 65mph. He then climbed onto his belly on the top cowling and noticed one spark plug wire was loose from the plug. A word to the wise...do not grab a plug wire on a BP running at 5800rpm. Somehow he signalled to me to shut down the affected engine just long enough to reattach the plug wire. When I restarted it we were back on speed. We finished 1st outboard and 3rd overall behind Bill Wishnick and Peter Rittmaster. Langer finished 1 minute behind me. Mr. Kiekhaefer was not happy that we crossed the finish line sans the wrap around but was pleased that we had set a new course record for outboards of 62+mph. I can still see Chet stretched out on top of that engine and hanging over the water. One slip and he would have been shark bait, but he didn't hesitate for even one second. Winning was satisfying, but not nearly as satisfying as beating Langer. Read the post called "3rd Bahamas 500"(?) and you will understand.:D :D -Steve

seeroy
02-18-2005, 08:07 PM
In the summer of 1968, after 6 years of alternating between working at Lake X and going to college, I finally managed to barely eke out my Bachelor's Degree at the University of South Florida. Instead of attending graduation, I immediately went to Lake X to prepare for the Bahamas 500. Shortly after that race, Mr. Kiekhaefer sent Ralph Seavey and I to Jacksonville to work on a boat at MEMCO, which stood for Mabry Edwards Marine Company. I had met Mabry previously at the Lake. The amazing aspect of this tasking was that we were to work with a legend of Unlimiteds....Ted Jones! The project at hand was to cut a vee bottom (don't remember brand) in half longitudinally and install a tunnel between the two halves.....Rather interesting way to "build" a tunnel boat for outboard offshore. I think John Stenbeck ran the boat at Lake X later. As I remember, it ran fairly well, but I don't know if it ever actually ran in a race. Anyway, Ted had some really neat stories to tell. I will attempt to relay one of them here. It seems that a wealthy industrialist tycoon (might have been Henry Hudson) had invested a great deal in an Unlimited race boat but the darn thing wouldn't even get up on a plane. So he called on Ted for advice. Ted arrived at the guys office but the boat was across town (Chicago?) somewhere. They take the elevator to the basement and climb into the back of a hot rod limo. The tycoon slaps a $100 bill on the seat next to the driver and says, "GO!". Turns out that the driver was a well known Indy 500 driver and they had a standing bet that he couldn't beat his previous time between the office and the boat shop. Driver blasts out of the basement garage, turns 90 degrees in mid air and is off to the races. Meanwhile Ted's hanging on for dear life. I think you all know that feeling when someone else is driving and you're scared s..tless, but when you are driving, everything is hunky dory. Also, when you are on the race course, you know everybody around you is just as crazy as you are, but when you are busting through downtown traffic at 100mph, you don't know anything about the other drivers. Needless to say, the driver collected the $100 and Ted survived. Turns out the Tycoon's boat had an enormous prop shaft that created an extrodinary amount drag.......Back to MEMCO......Mabry's boat shop was located at Imeson airport and the Florida Air National Guard (FANG) was flying F-102's out of there. Mabry was a LtCol and pilot in the FANG. Every day the Fighters would taxi past the shop on their way to the runway and I would watch them blast off with the incredible boom of their hard afterburner light. Finally, I asked, "Hey Mabry, how do you get to fly those jets?". He said, "Well, you need a college degree and have to pass a series of tests." I replied, "What the Hell, I've got a college degree. Where do I take the tests?". I enlisted in the FANG the next weekend. I continued to work and race for Kiekhaefer while attending monthly Drills at FANG until early 1970. At that time I recieved a commission as 2Lt and went to Craig AFB in Selma AL for a year of Undergraduate Pilot Training followed by 6 months of Fighter/Interceptor training in the F-102. Except for a 6 month stint working for Brother Bill and Doug Janisch in Miami, I spent 30 years full-time with the FANG!!!! I flew my last sortie the morning after Bill died in January 1997 and finally retired from FANG in 1998. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED? One minute, I'm cutting a boat in half with Ralph Seavey and Ted Jones.....and the next minute, it's 30 years later.......and that was 7 1/2 years ago. A friend of mine once told me, "Life is like a roll af toilet paper. The closer you get to the end, the faster it goes." The amazing thing about it all is that the 5 most fun things in my life have just kind of happened. I didn't plan any of them. 1-racing boats, 2-flying fighters, 3-meeting & marrying Iris, 4-becoming a Father, 5-becoming a Grandfather. By the way, 1-5 is the sequential order of events....NOT an indication of level of fun.......WOW! I really got off on a tangent this time! The next time I post, I promise I will get back to Lake X. :o :D -Steve

seeroy
02-18-2005, 09:59 PM
Somewhere along the way, Mr. Kiekhaefer bought a mold (might have been from Aranow) that was basically the same as the 28' Magnum and sent it to Mabry Edwards in Jacksonville. Mabry laid up several very light hulls and sent them to Lake X. They were very light and with reduced freeboard. We installed a 50(?) gallon ballast tank in the very nose and ran a pickup line from the right afterplane all the way to the top of the tank with a ball valve in the cockpit. A drain line went from the bottom of the tank, through another ball valve and out a thru-hull fitting. The pickup was welded to a hole in the afterplane. We could open the intake valve and lower the afterplanes just enough to pickup water. Man, you could fill that tank in nothing flat and drain it nearly as fast. Obviously, the ballast tank was meant for rough water to keep the nose down and could be used in conjunction with the hydraulic afterplanes to control pitch attitude. We ran triple BP's on these boats at somewhere between 65 and 70mph. I don't remember what the race was, but we were at Dave Craig's Skyway Marine in Miami and Wayne Vicker was running his (pink) Memco through some pretty good lumps when he stuffed it and broke the nose off of the boat. I think he might have nearly broke his own nose off in the process as well. Anyway, Wayne's experience made the rest of us a little gun-shy when it came to putting any water in the ballast tank or using too much afterplane. Shortley thereafter, we ran another race from Palm Beach to Grand Bahama Island and back. John Stenbeck finished 1st outboard in a triple BP Magnum(?) and I finished 2nd outboard (and 3rd or 4th overall) in triple BP Memco. It was probably the biggest water I ever ran a race in. At times I could only barely stay on a plane and run back and forth while quartering the waves. When I was in the troughs, I would be looking way up at the peaks. I honestly believe that I was looking at 14'-18' seas in the Gulfstream, and some of them were breaking. Meantime, Mabry was overhead taking pictures. Afterwards he told me that I should have used more ballast and/or afterplane to lower the pitch. All I could think of was that I did not want to stuff this thing 40 or 50 miles offshore, break the nose off and end up as shark bait. The bright side was that I had Ray Dowling riding with me. Ray was a round guy and I very skinny, so I figured that he would be more attractive to the sharks and they might leave me alone while they ate him. (Some other time I will try to tell the story of Brother Bill and Chet Strickland having to abondon ship while one of them was bleeding and they only had a single one man liferaft which only partially inflated when they fired the bottle.) Anyway, while having zig-zagged through the Gulfstream mountains for hours, I was amazed to see the smokestack next to the inlet emerge from the Atlantic dead ahead. You have to realize that we navigated by whiskey compass and every time you hit hard it would spin like a top. You might not see anything but water on the horizon for a couple of hours. It still amazes me that we ever found the finish line in some of those races. :D :) -Steve

seeroy
02-18-2005, 10:18 PM
Here's my Memco in the Gulfstream. That's Ray Dowling behind me. Good shark bait...:D-Steve

seeroy
02-18-2005, 10:39 PM
Wow! I finally figured out how to attach pics.

2us70
02-18-2005, 11:17 PM
I was at Skyway maine before the Miami to Nasau race in 68 or 69 and Stenback was there with a tunnel boat. Might have been the one you mentioned. I don't recall it doing anything in the race though. It was the year Rocky Marciano rode in one of the factory Thunderbirds and I got to meet him.

2us70
02-18-2005, 11:19 PM
I was at Skyway maine before the Miami to Nasau race in 68 or 69 and Stenbeck was there with a tunnel boat. Might have been the one you mentioned. I don't recall it doing anything in the race though. It was the year Rocky Marciano rode in one of the factory Thunderbirds and I got to meet him.

seeroy
02-19-2005, 10:06 AM
I was probabaly there at that time. However, I met Rocky at a cocktail party Freeport before one of the Bahama 500 races. He was very nice and talked to me for nearly an hour. He rode with Dick Genth in a Thunderbird. When they got to the fuel stop at Nassau, Rocky was so beat up that he got out and wouldn't get back in the boat. :) -Steve

Flat_Out
02-19-2005, 03:46 PM
Those are the great names that I know personally. I had the pleasure to work with Jim Harkins down at Placida before the base closed. He was one hellava teacher. His nikname was "The Teacher". That guy could drop a weld across a aluminum plate on a transom like nobody I have ever seen. I used to run endurance down in Placida when I first started. I remember one time a driver was comming to the dock as Harkins would say "to hot". Needless to say, the smartcraft technology was in the pliminary stages of testing and the engine would not shift to neutral. You guessed it, he smashed the wall. Out of no where, Here comes Jim from his shop screaming at the guy across the lot. " You dumb MF". I see him the next day with the grinder in his hand and Jim supervising as he did so well. It was a sad day to see Jim retire. Jim Still lives down the road from me and I see him from time to time. I used to hide out in his shop and just listen to all of his stories from days past. He had a bunch of old pictures that I wish I would have saved before they threw them out once he retired.

seeroy
02-19-2005, 04:54 PM
Flat Out - I can almost hear Jim Harkins yelling at that guy. Jim had a loud voice and laugh. I worked in the boat shop at Lake X with him for quite a while. When I left, I sold him all of my tools. I bet he still has some wrenches with "SNS" etched on them. Once, in the middle of the night, Chet Strickland woke my brother up yelling about something outside. Bill looked out the window at the old boat slip to see a boat burning furiously at the fuel docks. Jim Harkins had been fueling the boat and a spark ignited the fumes. As I remember the story, Jim rolled out of the boat into the water. Somebody threw a line into the burning boat and towed it out into the lake with the rescue boat where it burned completely. Meanwhile the fuel nozzle lay on the dock spewing burning fuel. It was a scene out of a horror movie. Jim had been seriously burned in the process and bore the scars thereafter. In those days the concerns about alot of hazardous chemicals were not well known and we always washed our hands with acetone after working with fiberglass and resin. Sometimes we would mix a really hot batch (lots of hardener) and it would smoke in the can as it set up. We goofed off alot and had alot of fun, but I also learned alot from him. I din't remember where it was, but I saw Dave Martin somewhere within the last couple of years. I remember him mainly from the Siesta Key test station. He was tall and thin and he always had this big smile on his face.
Gene Wagner was my 1st boss when I first went to work for Kiekhaefer at Siesta Key. He was incredibly meticulous at his work and even ran in a couple of races. He was a nice guy to work for and was very patient with me when I did dumb things. Read one of my early posts about running over Pete Brogan. Gene never drank alcohol. Seems that when he was in the Air Force, he tried it at the club one night and it really hit him hard. He stepped outside and passed out into a snow bank. Fortunately somebody found him before he froze to death. From that day on he never drank again. Milt Roeber ran the "Boathouse Bulletin" shop at Siesta Key and it was always a fun day when we had photo shoots. Manufacturers would send us their boats and we would rig them with different engines to determine the best configurations. Then a few luscious models would come in to ride around with us all day while the photo boat ran next to us. Gene usually drove the photo boat which had a tower on it for the photographer (can't remember his name). A brochure would then be published with specs and photos. Milt got several of us into conversation one day with the guy that was the original owner of Wellcraft. I think his name was Bill Davis. I will tell that story later, but it involved recovering Pirate treasure from the Boca Grande area.;) -Steve

bernie
02-19-2005, 05:12 PM
I'm one of the Mercury Northerners that would show up at Placida from time to time, first time was around 1980 I think - I was doing large outboard product testing. Later in life I lived in Englewood a couple years and utilized the Placida base for various boat builder functions.
Best thing about Jim Harkins was the pictures in the top of his toolbox - but seriously, that guy would give you the shirt off his back - 'course you'd have to beg for it and promise him your first born child! And yes, it was a treat to listen to Jim talk about the Lake X days.
Dave Martin still lives in Sarasota, Gene W. has moved back to the Goshen Indiana area - I saw him a couple years ago while working in the South Bend area.

Flat_Out
02-19-2005, 06:11 PM
Bernie,

I will not give out my name (swarn to secrecy on the board), but my father was Dave Martin's partner in crime and the photographer up until a few years ago until he was let go with Dave. I to remeber all of the boat house reports and being able to ride in some of the new boats. Yeah, There was a guy that worked at Placida with us that complained to HR about those pictures on the tool box. Then Jim was told to remove them and chit it the fan. That guy left after a few months. Everybody gave him a hard time and he quit.

T2x
02-20-2005, 08:03 PM
This site and the recent threads have become the best thing on the Internet..... Thanks to Steve and all the other people who still "bleed Mercury Black".... ;)

T2x

seeroy
02-20-2005, 09:42 PM
It was probably 1962 or 1963 when Milt Roeber, who ran the Boat House Bulletin department at Siesta Key, asked me if I would like to take a boat to Key West over the weekend to run a local race. I said sure, and 2 days later I was on my way South in the Keys towing a black Wellcraft with twin Mercs. Just past Marathon I get pulled by the Border Patrol. The guy asks me where I'm going. Seems that my boat looks suspicious. Apparently there were some folks running guns to Cuba in the darkness of night. In fact I had heard of someone doing exactly that and getting shot at in the process. Anyway, they let go on. At race time there were no other entries in my class so they bumped me up a class to run against a guy with twin Sportmaster units. I don't remember anything about the results, but it was fun......Later, back at Siesta Key, Milt wanted several of us (Me, Pete Brogan, Chet Strickland, and maybe Bob Eider) to stop at Happyland for a few drinks after work and to talk with Bill Davis(?). I think that was his name (Maybe someone can help me with Wellcraft history)...anyway, he was the owner of this small boat manufacturer named Wellcraft that operated out of a couple of quonset huts at Sarasota-Bradenton Airport. After a couple of beers he made a proposition to us. He needed several boat drivers that were familiar with the Boca Grande, which is actually know as Charlotte Harbor. The area is rife with hundreds of small islands and canals. We occassionally ran that far South on endurance and would run all through those canals and backwaters. Of course Gene Wagner did not know that we did that. We went lots of places that would have scared the hell out of him. And we always went there at full speed. Davis told us that he had located a lost pirate treasure buried in the area and needed help getting it out. The problem was that the Feds suspected him and were watching the site closely. He said that there were also others watching that would try to snatch the goods as soon as he uncovered it. There could be gunplay involved. He said that he had dug down some distance, had shored up the sides of the dig and only had a very short dig to pull the gold out. The plan was for us to ease into the site under cover of darkness just as he broke through, load the gold into several boats that would haul it to waiting trucks at several dispersed locations. Everything had to happen at lightning fast speed. Of course we would all be paid handsomely. As his proposition unfolded all I could think about was, "This guy is an absolute nut!". First of all, I didn't believe his story for a second; and second of all, I could see my payment being a bullet in the back of the head. He told us to think it over and he would see us later. I pretended that I had too many beers (actually I had) and didn't understand what he was talking about. Later, we (without Davis) all talked about it and decided that the guy was crazy and I never heard anything more about it. If anybody believed it....it would have been Milt Roeber. He was a little strange. He always reminded me of a blonde headed squirrel. I understand that a couple of years latter he was found dead in his mobile home.:cool: -Steve

blkmtrfan
02-20-2005, 10:09 PM
Wow! I finally figured out how to attach pics.

Awsome pics, and great storys, now that you have it figured out, don't stop attaching pics!! :D

stylishskier
02-21-2005, 12:34 AM
great stories, "tell us more grandpa tell us more!!" haha I really like the reading, very well told, feels like we were there with you! :cool:

seeroy
02-22-2005, 09:31 AM
Mickey Mousehttp://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=81219&stc=1

seeroy
02-22-2005, 09:36 AM
Some people just don't appreciate the sweet sound of stackers!

seeroy
02-22-2005, 09:49 AM
Lake X Photo Shoot prior to 1st (1967?) Bahamas 500.
#48- Johnny Bakos, #47-Bill Sirois&Ed Leslie, #43- Wayne Vickers&Me, Maritime-Odell Lewis&Mel Riggs. Chet Strickland ran a single outboard one year. I'm not sure if it was 1967, but if so, then #40 is him. Dammit, I wish I could remember who was in the other boats. No doubt Roy Ridgell, John Stenbeck were in this picture. Whoever I have forgotten...Please forgive me...:confused: :o :D -Steve

seeroy
02-22-2005, 09:50 AM
#41 might be Gene Wagner and Dale Thayer-:o -Steve

seeroy
02-22-2005, 07:47 PM
Joe Swift & Mr Kiekhaefer

seeroy
02-22-2005, 07:50 PM
Pic #1 - Don Pruett, Bill Sirois, Odell Lewis
Pic #2 - Odell Lewis, Joe Swift, Don Aronow

Flat_Out
02-22-2005, 07:53 PM
Gene Wagners boat was named the Milk Shake wasn't it?

seeroy
02-22-2005, 08:08 PM
Flat out - That certainly would have been appropriate:D -Steve

seeroy
02-22-2005, 08:24 PM
1967(?) 1st Bahamas 500....Red Crise spectacular! I think there was something like 63 boats entered and it was definately rough water! I rode with Wayne Vickers in a Seacraft with twin Mercs. If I don't screw this up, Iwill attach 2 pics..1 of the boat and 1 of me sitting in the boat at Freeport. I don't remember how fast the boat was, but I do remember all of us were watching Carl Mosely's cute daughter on the docks. Anyway, the race starts and about 20-30 miles later we were doing OK when a throttle cable came loose from the engine and we were dead in the (very rough) water for awhile getting it reattached. When we got going again everybody was out of sight so we actually had to navigate instead of following the crowd. When we finally got to the half way fuel stop at Nassau it was late in the evening. We didn't want to go across the flats on the way to Eleuthra in the dark, so we said the Hell with it and got a hotel room for the night. That sounds like a gentlemanly way to race. Next morning we got up at a decent hour, had some breakfast and continued our journey, finally finishing in an elapsed time of something in excess of 24 hours.....but we did finish! It was either the next year or the year after next that Red instituted a new rule that said you had to finish in a specified time or you were disqualified. Apparently he just didn't understand that this was a gentlemans game. ;) :D -Steve

seeroy
02-25-2005, 11:29 PM
Funny things sometimes happened on Endurance at Lake X. I think I previously explained how endurance ran 24 hours a day for 5 1/2 days a week. The day shift could get incredibly hot during Summer and if you were sun sensitive, like me, you had to cover up which made the heat even worse. Swing shift was when you missed out on all the fun of St Cloud nightlife. Things at the J&A Bar would be fairly quiet by the time you could get there after midnight. The midnight shift during Winter could be so damn cold you would think you were in Wisconsin instead of Florida. Cape Canaveral (now Kennedy) was only 35-40 miles away as the crow flies and on a number of occassions the sky would light up brightly as a launch would go off in the middle of the night. On a cold calm winter night you could almost hear the crackle of the rocket. One night a helicopter came down low over the lake and followed me for awhile. Sometimes you would be assigned to a very comfortable boat like the Jones cat. That was truly a sweet ride. Other nights you might be assigned to the #29 boat. I don't remember what brand it was but it was a very hard ride. For awhile I drove an Alim with a Buick (V6?) engine on a stern drive. That was also a pretty nice ride. One very cold night I was in that boat and it I started feeling warm and cozy. It felt like warm air was circulating around me and then I realized that it was also wet air. Discovered that a hose had a pin hole in it and hot water was spraying forward. The worst ride was a diesel that seemed to run forever. No matter how hard you abused it, it just kept on running. It was loud and smelled. Also the floor was always slippery form the diesel fuel. The hardest thing about the midnight shift was staying awake. Guys would try some weird things. One night I was sitting in the shop during my 3:00AM fuel stop when John Flood pulled into the slip, tied up and walked into the shop. I thought he looked a little weird, which was not unusual for John. I realized that he had attached tape to his upper eye lids and fastened the other end to his forehead. Yes, he had actually taped his eyes open. On another night, my headlights caught something white bouncing up and down some distance in front of me. As I overtook John I saw another novel way to stay awake. He had taken a rag and tied it around his head and then he had tied 30-40 feet of rags together and attached them to the one tied around his head. Then he threw the "tail" overboard. The rags tail would hit the water and bounce in the air. Every time it hit the water it would jerk his head back almost violently. He thought this was a great idea. But then who was I to judge. Sometime during my 1st week at the Lake I walked into the shop and I was startled to see a bear sleeping on the floor. At least that was my first impression of "Jet". Jet was probably the biggest, blackest Labrador Retriever that I had ever seen. He loved to ride in the endurance boat with us and would always be looking to liberate your lunch from your hand in the middle of the night. Late one night I was driving the deisel and Jet was laying right next to the engine. It was incredibly loud with no engine cover and the smell was enough to cover any other smell. As I got hungry, I looked back at Jet sleeping soundly some 15' behind me and stealthily eased a sandwich out of the bag and started to unwrap it only to suddenly find him sitting up next to me and slobbering like crazy. Jet didn't see, smell or hear food, he sensed it. Sometimes Jet would ride the boats for a day or two at a time. You could pull up closely to another boat and he would jump from one boat to the other while we were running along at full speed. On a number of occassions he would jump into the boat slip and attack small alligators. I think that practice stopped when he got hold of one that was a little bit too big. One night Bill and Chet (?) were out on the Lake in a small fast boat and managed to sneek up behind one of the endurance drivers without being noticed. Bill climbed into the endurance boat, eased up and hid behind the guys seat. He then reached the throttle lever beside the seat and pulled it back a little bit. Naturally the guy reached down and pushed it back forward. This went of for several itterations until Bill left his hand on the throttle. When the driver rached down and found another hand there, I think he nearly crapped his pants. We had alot of fun on the lake at all times of day and night. To this day I do not know how I managed to not get fired. Just dumb luck I guess.
:D :D :D -Steve

76baja18ft
02-26-2005, 04:22 AM
awesome reading.. please keep the stories coming...

gofish7070
02-26-2005, 10:55 AM
Seeroy Remember that 29 boat what a B--l Buster If my memory is correct I think it was a Brunswick boat back from when they originally built a few runabouts in the "60's...........Mutually hated that diesel boat among other things it was very slow which made you a target for washdowns, banannas and anything else that could be thrown,,,,,,,,,,,But those Jones I think they were boats #1 and #4 were special with those 6 in lines back their purring you were just blowing by everything on the lake,,,,,,,,,, Also remember a decked over duo with a renault engine was a pretty good ride very quiet and I think you did a lot of reading from that rig,,,,,,,,,But my favorite day was when Wayne Meyer put together a race prepared v8 hooked it up to a Mercruseir #1 drive put it in a green Scooti-Craft and said take it out and see if the drive can handle the Horspower,,,,,, Boat ran aboout 60 and enjoyed every minute of my shift,,,,Never was in on testing those BP engines on the Switzer-Crafts But the South end of the Lake had to be rush to go sliding around,,,,,,,,,,, In awe of your memory and literary skills............GoFish7070

25ss
03-07-2005, 02:30 AM
Steve
Great stories keep up the good work!
I bought a boat a year ago a Glastron CT15. The guy i got it from said he got it from Billy Martin an offshore racer in new jersey.
The boat has a mercury asset tag nailed to the hull. It was originally gold metalflake but now has a yellow topside. Jim hunt & some other guys said they had seen him at lake x & he may have got it there?
Just wondering if you had any imfo on the boat or Billy Martin?
Keep the great stories comeing!!!
Dale!

seeroy
03-13-2005, 07:03 PM
One summer during a break in College, I decided to try to work in Miami instead of at Lake X. Bill and Doug Janisch were both working out of Miami and had rented a house on the River and one block from the Playboy club. Bill would be racing in Europe most of the summer and Doug was gone alot. So it was beneficial for me to stay there and keep an eye on the house. To top it off, Mike Gordon kept his twin Ford powered Bertram (Fish Peddler) tied up at Bill's dock. The deal was that instead of paying dockage, we could use the boat. My only problem was to find a job. I had met Don Aronow on several occasions and decided to check in with him. I walked in the door at Magnum to find Don, Jake Trotter and Jim Bruell. I asked Don if he needed any help for a few months and was pleasantly surprised to be hired immediately. Seems Don was going for the UIM championship and must compete in Europe in order to win it. Knocky House would be on the other side of the pond with that boat, but Don must also compete in a California UIM points race as well. I just happened into the right place at the right time. He had a 28' single Mercruiser Magnum that I was to take to Long Beach and ride with him in the race. He would arrive from Europe the day before the race. The boat was already set up and on the trailer. I had some time to spend in the shop and enjoyed the camaraderie of Knocky, Jake, Jim, and Dave Stirrat. Also Alan Brown (Brownie) was next door at Donzi(?). In the evenings I would run around Biscayne Bay in Mike's Bertram. Miami had not gotten so crazy in those days, so I had a pretty good time. Finally it was time to head for Long Beach. I Hooked the boat up to Magnum stake body truck and headed West. By myself, no air conditioning, no radio, summer time, pulling a race boat. Somewhere along US-90, (I don't think I-10 was there yet) I decided I had better arm myself against desperados. I stopped at a gun shop and purchased a .32 caliber revolver and continued West. I figured that it was about 3,000 miles total so I would drive it in three 1,000 mile runs. The first night put me somewhere in central Louisiana. I spent the night in a small motel and early the next morning I carried the pistol wrapped in my maps as I headed to the truck. As I unlocked the door, the pistol slipped out of the maps and landed on it's hammer between my feet. BANG! I have absolutely no idea where the bullet went, but the first thing I did was to check that my testicles were still intact. Thankful that they were, and there did not appear to be any noticable bullet holes anywhere else in my body, I listened for any signs that I might have hit something else. Except for the shot, it was a very quiet morning, and since I had not heard any protest from anyone, I figured it would be best to get the hell out of there. From that time forward, there was never a bullet under the hammer. The six shooter was forever more a five shooter. I spent the next night and day in Las Cruces New Mexico at a very small motel. Let me say that Las Cruces may be a nice place today. In the mid-sixties it was the pits. If there are any Las Cruceans out there, sorry about that. Anyway, it would not be a great plan to traverse the deserts of Southern California in mid summer, with no AC, during the heat of day. So, I layed over until early evening and then set out for Long Beach. Half way across the desert I pulled off the road next to a small mountain and layed on the ground for a while. I will never forget how incredibly clear the sky was and I had not seen so many stars since my childhood in the farm country of Northern Indiana. I arrived in Long Beach the next morning with a week to kill before the race. I had never been in California before so I was excited to see as much as I could. I rented a motorcycle and immediately went to the Marine Stadium for the Sunday boat races. On Monday, I put the Magnum in the water and ran it to make sure there were no problems. Everything was good so I put it back on the trailer and spent the rest of the week touring. I'm going to take a break for awhile and write the rest of the story later :cool: -Steve

seeroy
03-13-2005, 09:25 PM
Sorry about that, I had to walk the dogs....A piece of advice....when you walk dogs in the dark and then let them back in the house, and then you notice that there is a leaf on the doormat....do not pick it up! It might not be a leaf....and the next time make sure that the dogs leave all of their products out in the grass...not on the doormat. :o Back to a fairly dull story.... The night before the race, and Don has not yet shown up. The next morning I find out he arrived at 3:00am from Europe. He doesn't have a clue about the course or checkpoints. This is a 2 day race. Day 1 is Long Beach to San Diego. Day 2 is San Diego to Long Beach. So we blast off for day 1 heading South. Half way there we come across Bill Wishnick in his "Big Broad Jumper". He has lost an engine and is pulling a monster wake behind him. Don, looking for a little excitement, decides to jump the wake about 2 feet behind Wishnick. I fly across the cockpit like a ragdoll and clobber Don. He looks at me with total disdain but still has no idea where the next checkboat is. However, I do. A couple miles offshore from San Diego is a clump of rockswhere one of the checkboat is to be. I point to the rocks and checkboat but Don just keeps going toward the harbor. Seemed like a good time to get even for his wake jumping antics, so I hit him in the arm as hard as I possibly can and finally get his attention and head him toward the checkboat. Finally we cross the finish line and Don heads for the Hotel and many hours of sleep. Early the next morning I took the boat out to check for leaks and come across an aircraft carrier leaving the port. I ran a couple of circles around it to the amusement of the sailors on deck. Day 2 starts and we head back North. Much to my amusement, Don has a very large bruise on his arm. Odell Lewis and Mel Riggs finished first in the turbine boat and we finish second several minutes later. Odell is idling about 50' out from the finish line dock when Don decides to pull another one of his close-by passes. He goes by Odell at full speed with only inches to spare. If I had stuck my arm out as we went by, I could have shaken hands with Odell....albeit, very quickly. After much SoCal hospitality, food and whiskey at the awards banquet, I headed back to Florida a day or two later. I remember absolutely nothing about the return trip. Dr Bob Magoon was a very close friend of Don. Sometime during that summer, I rode with Bob in the Around Long Island (NY) race. We were doing pretty good until we puked an engine and had to withdraw. I was under the deck calling in to race control on the radio when gas fumes started to get to me. To this day, that was the closest I have ever come to getting "mal de mer" (sea sick). When things finally quieted down back in Miami, Don asked me to rig a small tunnel hull that he had acquired. I had a little time in a Molinari at Lake X, so I took that project on with relish. I finally got the tunnel in the water and ran it around the area some. It crowhopped alot but it ran pretty well. I went back to the dock and got Don. We ran around for awhile and, since this was his first ride in a tunnel, he was thrilled. Also, it was his birthday and he proclaimed this ride to be a great present. He went back into the office and, as I walked by the parts room, I noticed an "elephant ear" prop on the floor. I didn't know who it belonged to...so...I immediately acquired it for Don's birthday boat. WOW! Now it flew like the Molinari had at the Lake. I went into the office and told Don he had to go for another ride. He said he was too busy... so, once again, I hit him as hard as I could and told him he had to go for another ride....which he did. He could not believe how much better it ran and told me to strip the boat immediately so he could pull a mold from it.....which he did. Thus was born the "Magnum Missle". As the summer ended, I went back to school and never again got in a boat with Don Aronow....nor did I want to.....my fist was sore. Years later, I was saddened to hear of his untimely and tragic demise. I don't know what ever became of Knocky House, Jake Trotter, or Jim Bruell. If any of you know, I would be interested in hearing. :cool: :D :) -Steve

gofish7070
06-15-2005, 01:47 PM
Seeeeeeeeeeroy Can"t surrender yet,,,,,,,,,,,To Hot a read and I know their are a million more Lake X stories out their,,,,,,,,,,,You've rested enough exercise that literary skill,,,,,How about the Hurricane parties.............Later gofish7070 ;) ;) :)

fastboat
06-16-2005, 05:48 AM
I have been to Lake X a couple of times, and I love those stories from the old days. Hope you don't think no one wants to hear them, cause we DO!

blkmtrfan
06-16-2005, 06:47 AM
Yes we do :cool:

Ripper
06-16-2005, 08:53 AM
I'm at work, just saw this thread and read all of it.. Please add more ASAP...

Ripper


I love these stories... You should write a book!!!!

fgbiv
07-14-2005, 11:01 PM
My Father, Frank G. Brown III co-drove this boat!

Dad has told me so many stories about Lake X.



Frank G. Brown IV(Jr.)

fgbiv
07-14-2005, 11:10 PM
hopefully the picture comes through this time

blkmtrfan
07-15-2005, 08:01 AM
Great pic :cool:


Please feel free to include some of you father's stories :)

Alan Power
07-15-2005, 09:49 AM
Great pic :cool:


Please feel free to include some of you father's stories :)

Please do, this has been one of the most enjoyable threads I've read on S&F.

Thanks

dotz
07-15-2005, 10:44 AM
Where is Seeroy? Any of you other guys with lake X stories tell them. This is a great read.

dangerou1944
07-15-2005, 02:40 PM
anyone know if 850 inline six has any value? motor is short shaft and runs sweet.


email lleggs5@yahoo.com

Mark75H
07-15-2005, 05:38 PM
anyone know if 850 inline six has any value? motor is short shaft and runs sweet.

Probably not much due to shipping costs. Stuff like that does sell on eBay for $100 $200

Probably a local sale item. Where are you located?

fastboat
07-15-2005, 07:29 PM
But that motor is worth more than that. In fact, if you are interested in selling it, send me a private message with your phone number, and I may be interested in buying it, where ever you live.

Mark75H
07-15-2005, 08:06 PM
Wayne, you should watch eBay and buy 'em up if you think that is a great price. Old 6's come up pretty regularly.

850's could be 76ci or 89ci.

dangerou1944
07-15-2005, 10:21 PM
i live in cochran, ga. 40 miles south of macon.

spotted motor today guy wants $500 boat motor trailer. the motor is only thing of value.

fastboat
07-16-2005, 08:24 AM
Do you know whether the motor is an XS, and are you going to buy it? Don't want to step on any toes here.

Mark75H
07-16-2005, 09:15 AM
the 850xs was an inline 4

dangerou1944 said his 850 was a six .... the last inline six 850 was made in 1964. with the way this converation progressed, I now assume you were unaware of these 2 facts

dangerou1944
07-16-2005, 10:38 AM
motor is short shaft with adapter to make it a 20". i was thinking a 70's powerhead might fit? 115/150?

Mark75H
07-16-2005, 10:55 AM
Most powerheads made after 1970 WILL NOT fit at all. There was a change in 1972. Some of the powerheads made before 1970 may bolt up, but the gasket patterns may not be the same. Picking and choosing base pans may allow swapping from some years.

dangerou1944
07-16-2005, 11:07 AM
seems like i should pass on this motor. keep looking.

fastboat
07-17-2005, 08:37 AM
You are correct, Sir :) .

Kuba
08-03-2005, 06:15 PM
Does anybody have any stories about my father Jim Kubasta

Thanks

Bruce Washburn
08-16-2005, 05:56 PM
Hi Jim
only met your dad a couple of times via the Mertens. I remember he was one hell of a nice guy with a pretty good sense of humor. He also probably forgot more than alot of the so-called prop experts ever knew about props.

I am sure Butler should have some good stories

jimmiswift
10-19-2005, 04:14 PM
Joe Swift & Mr Kiekhaefer

Wow, I found a picture of my Dad.:D

jimmiswift
10-19-2005, 04:16 PM
Hi - Joe Swift was my Dad. Do you have any more pictures of him?

PARKER RABE
11-28-2005, 07:18 PM
steve my dad randy rabe would love to talk to u do u have a # where he can call u ?
parker

mbd29
11-29-2005, 01:08 PM
Here is a shot of your dad. It was from Havasu 1970

When I started at Mercury your dad was my mentor. He showed me the ropes as the Race Promotion Manager working for Garbrecht. My time with him was eventful.

JFL
11-29-2005, 04:19 PM
Let me jog your memory
7-22-68, you drove a 25'5" Sea craft #505 Joan -E at Lake X to a speed of 60.215 MPH
Wt.3280
KAM no.76661
Triple engine, center was a standard 1250, port and stbd 1250 BP's
RPM's L 5300, C5600, S 5600
Props, L 12x24 3 bld, C 14x26 2 bld, r 12x24 3 bld
Trans Ht. c 263/4, l and r 201/4
Gear ratio, c 2:1, l and r 1.75:1
tilt pin location 3
wind calm, water slight chop, baro,30.07,temp 90, R.H.68
Beam,7' 11"
Transom angle 11 1/2
Load, 840 LBS
After New York race "check"
Driver S. Sirois

Bill Schwab
12-27-2005, 09:58 PM
Is the story about Karl K. true when he fired the Coke man playing bigshot in front of some guests at the factory?

willabee
01-03-2006, 11:03 AM
The version I heard was as E.C. pulled into the driveway on the west end of Plt.#5 ( the Oshkosh boathouse ), he observed a guy just standing next to the side entrance door smoking a cigarette. When he got out of his car, the man nodded and continued his smoke. E.C. asked what his name was and how much he earned per week. E.C then went into the plant, told one of the secretarys to write a check - he went back outside and handed the man the check and told him to get off of his property - the Coke truck driver said thank you and left :)


Is the story about Karl K. true when he fired the Coke man playing bigshot in front of some guests at the factory?

Bill Schwab
01-03-2006, 04:18 PM
I had heard something similar. Except he was showing off as he so loved to do with some hot shots in the car, and to impress them, he canned the Coke guy realizing that the guy was not even an employee after he told him. Regardless of the true sequence, it probably happened. That's freeken hysterical!

Dd24skater
03-15-2006, 07:08 PM
That's good stuff!!!!

jeffbare
03-16-2006, 07:27 PM
There are never enough stories that come from those days.

barr151
03-31-2006, 10:10 PM
all i can say is WOW. great stories. i see it has been a while since steve has posted a story? anybody now whats going on?

Gary Forsmo
04-02-2006, 01:49 PM
Johnny Bakos lives in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. At last knowledge, he still maintains a hanger at the local airport where he keeps his airplane and works on restoring some autos. The last car that I know that he was working on was a Shelby.

Lanceonthelake
04-13-2006, 03:20 PM
I just found this thread and spent my lunch hour reading it. I live about 4 miles from lake X, and when it was still open, I would love hearing the boats running over there. When my one year old is haing a hard time going to sleep, me or my wife drive here out to the front gate and back. She's usually asleep before we get there. Last time I was out there it looked like they have removed the tower at the end of the canal.

richiepakasticks
06-08-2006, 02:59 PM
Don`t forget me, I was there, it`s great actually reading the stuff you wrote. I`m afraid to start with all my stuff, I was the only guy that continued on besides Bill from Merc. Lake X original team. Stopped in 94 after crash with Tom Gentry, racked up over sixty carreer victories, seven world championships, two world speed records, etc. etc. etc. all came from the hard work we had to put in under coach K. aka the Buck aka mr. K. we need to tell all the stories, our sport of Offshore as well as most other forms of marine racing has no recorded history, I think it`s time something was done about it. we need to remember the past hero`s of our sport and some how honor them and their contributions to the sport, while we can. I miss you and the rest of the guys, we need a reunion. I told a TV station about doing a feature and they thought it would be great. Look forward to future communication with you, and maybe we can dig out some others who were there. what you say is all real, I was there, I was just the quite one, afraid to get in trouble by hanging out with you guys so much. I was only 19 yrs old, I lied on my application to APBA so I could race. Talk to you soon. R.P.

primerate2
06-08-2006, 03:08 PM
What great stories. I now live in South Dakota but grew up in Winter Haven and Melbourne Floride. When I was 14 I had a job working for the Mercury Dealership in Winter Haven. It was owned by Gerald Emory and his two sons Charlie and Richard both worked there. The marinna was located on lake May and I lived on Lake Mirrow which was four lakes away in the chain. We had just been shipped a new moter from Mr. K as he wanted us to try it out . This must have been about 1956 or 1957. The engine was a Mark 26, Pink and sat at what appeared to be at an extream angle on the transum. I was given the OK to take the flat bottom 14 boat with that new engine on it, home for lunch. On the way home I decided to buzz a buddies house that lived on lake Cannon. The rig must have been going about 30 and I put it in a sharp turn when the boat started sliding sideways and the engine broke in half where it was attached to the bracket clamped to the boat. Its still in the lake in about 10 feet of mud bottom.

Either 1957 or 58 My Dad took me on the Kississemme river boat-a-cade There were about 600 boats and the trip started at the town of Kississimme and went to Ft. Meyers. The water level was high and the river was full of weeds. The Mercury's sat on the transums at more of an angle than did the OMC engines and the Johnsons and Evenrudes had to stop every 1/2 mile and shift to reverse to spin off the weeds but the Mercury's didn't. Before we got to the big lake most of the OMC engines had burned up the shifting dogs but the Mercurys were doing fine. Well, Mr. K had been flying over the route and noticed this so he landed and got on a Factory Parts boat and headed up the river. Wasn't far when he came across a new boat with two new Jophnson 35's on it and was broken down., He pulled next to them, introduced him self then told the Johnson owners that if they would un bolt those two new Johnson engines and through them into the river, he would have his guys but two new Mark 55's on their boat free. Well that story went all over amoung the boaters and Karl was the topic of most conversations the rest of the way. Needless to say the OMC,s might still be in the Kissimme River.


My Dad raced in the Family Run-a-bout class in the late 1940's and The Higgins boat company had loaned hin a molded wooded 14 foor boat to race. There was somthing special about that boat as it only wet about 12 inches of bottom and it was 10 MPH faster than any one he raced against. This was in the late 1940's and he won a ational Championship with it. The boat made history and I have a page from the Higgins Company news letter with a picture of it running in a race in Clearwater. The title of the story is THE BOAT THAT NEARLY FLEW. Mr. Higgins wanted the boat back and gave dad another one just like it but the replacement wet most of the entire bottom and he nevwr won anothger race in that class. The last time Dad saw the boat that nearly flew was while on a fishing trip on Lake Kissimme where it was full of water and rotted out.

In miss boating and apperciate all the stories about St. Corix, and Lake X.
Thanks for the memories.

Ken Recker Jr.

T2x
06-09-2006, 06:41 AM
Don`t forget me, I was there, it`s great actually reading the stuff you wrote. I`m afraid to start with all my stuff, I was the only guy that continued on besides Bill from Merc. Lake X original team. Stopped in 94 after crash with Tom Gentry, racked up over sixty carreer victories, seven world championships, two world speed records, etc. etc. etc. all came from the hard work we had to put in under coach K. aka the Buck aka mr. K. we need to tell all the stories, our sport of Offshore as well as most other forms of marine racing has no recorded history, I think it`s time something was done about it. we need to remember the past hero`s of our sport and some how honor them and their contributions to the sport, while we can. I miss you and the rest of the guys, we need a reunion. I told a TV station about doing a feature and they thought it would be great. Look forward to future communication with you, and maybe we can dig out some others who were there. what you say is all real, I was there, I was just the quite one, afraid to get in trouble by hanging out with you guys so much. I was only 19 yrs old, I lied on my application to APBA so I could race. Talk to you soon. R.P.

Hey Richie Powers...........

Who can forget you?........

Let me be the first to welcome one of the greatest offshore competitors in the history of the sport to our site. Your anecdotes will be a welcome addition. Who knows maybe you and I and Brownie can collaborate and write that book?

T2x.

P.S. Darren sends his regards

richiepakasticks
06-09-2006, 07:03 AM
That`s the best welcome I have received in a long time, Just when I thought, what the hell let the past be the past. I think Seeroy really sparked me up. as well as one of my very close friends from the Merc. days almost 30 years ago, thank you John L. and a thanks to Joel as well, I`m new here so bear with me and my history will start to flow, from my first boat, get this!!!! a 14` reveau utility race boat, wish I had it now. Please send my very, very best to Darren, hope he is well, I will be doing the up-coming boat show circuit up North, let`s try to meet up. Thanks again for a great welcome, and I look forward to much more history.
richiepakasticks

Bob Zipps
06-09-2006, 11:28 AM
Richie said, "from my first boat, get this!!!! a 14` reveau utility race boat, wish I had it now."

Richie,

Raveau Boats are available new.

Bob Walwork who worked with Marcel Raveau making Raveau Boats back in the old days, is again making Raveau Boats. Since Bob Walwork actually made the boats in the old days, these new Raveaus are not reproductions. They are the real thing.

Check out the following website http://hometown.aol.com/raveau/walwork.htm

Hope that this helps.

MagicFloat
06-09-2006, 01:28 PM
Welcome,Richie.We were at the offshore races in Sarasota on the 4th of July, maybe 3 years ago,and you were doing the commentary on the radio broadcast.Enjoyed the broadcast. Please tell us some stories.

JFL
06-09-2006, 04:45 PM
Good to see you found the site and got logged on, hope to hear some of those stories that some people will not believe.
Would like to see pictures also if you have any.
Next time I'm in your area I'll bring along the books we talked about, very interesting.

ShorePounder
06-09-2006, 08:35 PM
Its good to see some life back in this thread!! Anyone know what happened to Sirois? He dropped off abruptly. I hope all is well with him.

Mr.T
06-12-2006, 07:15 AM
Richie Welcome to the forum This place will bring back a lot of memories. I think the last time I saw you was at the Miami boat show back in the mid 70's. I am sure you can come up with some good stories about the Lake.I probably could too. I was never stationed there like you just sent there for punisment GG thought I loved it down there. Good to hear from you. Tom Stickle P.S Willabee's on here two right now he is in recovery but he will be back.

seeroy
06-12-2006, 11:30 AM
Richie - Thanks for the e-mail last week. And to all others...I am still out here. I just ran out of things to talk about from my own memory. now with Richie onboard maybe I can come out of hiding. Richie, I did go to that wedding at Vida and Gordon's house. Interestingly I found out that, among other things, Gordon is a "Minister" and he very nicely performed the ceremony for my neice and her new hubby. And then, after the ceremony, Vida called Phil Schenk and put me on the phone with him. Iris and I went over to his house and we talked until nearly 3:00AM. Lots of laughs and telling of stories from those old days at Lake X as well as some from his days around Bill. Phill is still very much in touch with Chet Strickland and hopefully I will be able to get back in touch with him as well. I think that they will both be able to provide new stories and insite into old stories as well. Best Regards to All - Steve Sirois

gofish7070
06-12-2006, 02:03 PM
Seeroy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Good to hear you again,,,,,,,,,,While at the Miami show as usual met up with Gordon Houser (No Relation a smy name is spelled hauser) Gordon was one of my Fathers closest friends,While talking to him he explains relationship of Vida and Bill,,,,What a small world, Great to hear Phil & Chet are still kicking,,,,Ritchie remember you from Fond du Lac Boathouse days Welcome aboard,,,,,,,,,,,Gofish7070

seeroy
06-12-2006, 02:12 PM
Jim - I was in your neighborhood this last weekend. Sorry I couldn't call you but I was only in town overnight for a wedding....and then I talked to Phil....He lives on Datura. i will send you his phone # in an e-mail.

Best Regards - Steve

T2x
06-14-2006, 09:36 AM
Richie:

Who is John L?

and Joel?

T2x....... (aka Rich Luhrs)

Welcome aboard.

JFL
06-14-2006, 06:09 PM
Race boat number 101
Spirit 1
Yellow and white
28' Memco
7'6" beam
12 degree transom angle
3 Merc 1250 BP's
16 " centers
Rotation left, right, right
Rpm 5800
Props 12 x 24 3 blade bronze, L cup
Wind s 5
Water, calm
Baro 29.90
Air temp 84
Relative Hum. 55
Course, Kilo
Date 10-6-68
Speed, 59.258 MPH
And the driver was..... Ritchie Powers.

RBoso
07-12-2006, 09:11 PM
been there done it have one of the marithon 6 motors from the great 50,000 miles that they ran

200VEGAS
09-03-2006, 10:49 PM
if i can figure out how to load them

Mark75H
09-03-2006, 10:54 PM
Jerry, if you have trouble you can email them to me and I can make them good to post here or post them for you.

Email me at mark75h@comcast.net

Brownie
12-12-2006, 01:53 PM
John L. from those days might be John Litjens

Fish
12-12-2006, 03:37 PM
hey brownie, good to see you over here on S&F. :)

fish

Mark75H
12-14-2006, 07:57 AM
Brownie, there is a rumor that the Missle tunnel was a very rare boat. Do you remember about how many were made?

Mark75H
12-23-2006, 10:47 AM
Bernie's Lake X tower picture

moparbarn
12-27-2006, 08:45 AM
i don't know how many were made, but i remember a bunch more in private hands used for fun, than were being raced. i can remember going to magnum, and donzi next door, just to hang out. can you imagine a group opf 13 & 14 year olds pulling up to the dock, and just being allowed to wander around today!? i can recall seeing like 25 or more sitting on dollies and trailers at one time, complete, some rigged with motors, most not. there were already a bunch on the water by then. not common, but i don't think rare; at least not in n. miami. i can also remember riding my bicycle to ivan tors studios (about 10 blocks north of me), riding in the gate, wave to the gaurd, and enjoy! behave and be quiet, and nobody had an issue. man growing up in miami was great! hey mark 70, i'm in n. va. shoot me an e-mail at execchefal@juno, if you want. i also know where 2 mccalls might still be sitting in n. fla., west of tallahassee. a d or e runabout and a f or h tunnel, i think. anyone interested, e-mail me and i'll relay what i can recall about location. don't know ANYTHING about them, just that they were sitting, and definately mccalls.

AIRWALK

lilabner
01-16-2007, 09:47 AM
Hi Steve..I'm bringing Dave Craig and his wife to Mt Dora in March, and we are meeting Carl and Jeanne Moesly there also..
Now if somebody could get Johnny B and Odell there, we could have a real Legends get together..try to make it..

Butch

Bob Zipps
01-24-2007, 03:29 PM
Mark 75H asked, "..... there is a rumor that the Missle tunnel was a very rare boat. Do you remember about how many were made?"

According to the History Section of the Magnum Marine Website, approximately 30 Sixteen Foot Maltese Magnum Missiles were made. Although, it would seem that this number is on the low side.

I remember seeing at least 5 back in the old days on Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire. There used to be waterski races on Winnipesaukee back them, and the Magnum Tunnels were the favorite tow boat.

Hope that this helps.

Mark75H
01-24-2007, 03:50 PM
Thanks, Bob. I really wish we heard from you a little more often.

If there really are only 30 Missles we must be seeing the same ones selling over and over. I know of at least 4 in Maryland. That's more than 10% of all of them if there are only 30.

Who else knows where a Magnum Missle is?

2us70
01-24-2007, 06:26 PM
I can count at least 3 that were raced in twin engine U class.

moparbarn
01-26-2007, 12:02 PM
as i posted earlier, i saw quite a few at once at magnum's plant. it's been a loooong time ago (40 years), but it sure seems like more than 10 or 15. later, when i worked at bob brown's biscayne marine-70 or 71- we had 2 in dry storage and 2 more that came in for service. one more was on davits in keystone heights and another on the east side of bicaye bay just south of 125 st. what colors were available? i only remember black and maroon. mark 75h, there is one at lake holiday, a residential community on 522 north of winchester, va. . saw it about 3 weeks ago, was at a friends running r/c boats at that lake. was on a lift in a boat house. my friend daid he has seen it run this past summer. black one with a 135 merc v motor, not inline.

Bob Zipps
01-26-2007, 04:27 PM
Regarding the Magnum Missile, moparbarn asked, "what colors were available?"

From what I have been able to dig up:

The fiberglass hull colors available were: White, Tangerine, Burgandy, and Black.

The Wooden Insets were Walnut.

The Carpeting was either Black or Gold.

The 4 place, back to back Bucket Seats were either Black or Gold.

Hope that this helps.

BUIZILLA
01-26-2007, 06:20 PM
I know Ted Swing had a single engine Missile, and Craig Tokarsky had a twin engine, Craig raced his and flipped it over backwards in the stadium one Sunday, Ted never raced his if my memory is right, BUT we did stand it up over by Indian Creek Island and it threw me out one day, pretty funny thinking back on it, both I believe were white...

2us70
01-27-2007, 04:19 PM
Tokarsky was lucky to have survived his attempts at boat racing.

Fish
01-28-2007, 12:08 PM
don't forget that randy rabe bought the misssle molds from Arronow and began building them as the rabco hustler. They looked very similar; could be some of the misssles being seen are hustlers. Just a thought.

Mark75H
01-28-2007, 04:14 PM
don't forget that randy rabe bought the misssle molds from Arronow and began building them as the rabco hustler. They looked very similar; could be some of the misssles being seen are hustlers. Just a thought.

Yep

But I see the Magnum emblems very often, and Rabe did not copy the emblems. The 4 boats I currently know of in MD have the Magnum emblems and are not Rabcos. The ones we often see on eBay have Magnum emblems. If there are only 30 they sure do change hands often

Bob Zipps
02-26-2007, 12:15 AM
Regarding the Magnum Missile, Fish said, "don't forget that randy rabe bought the misssle molds from Arronow and began building them as the rabco hustler. They looked very similar; could be some of the misssles being seen are hustlers. Just a thought."

Following up on that thought, while I am not 100% sure, it is my understanding that the Rabco Hustlers did not have the wood insets on the front deck and on both sides at the rear as the Magnum Missile did. If that turns out to be correct, then that would be an easy way of telling them apart.

On the Magnum Missile, the fiberglass deck and the fiberglass sides are recessed where the wood insets are located so that the outer surfaces of the wood insets are flush with the fiberglass around them. So removing the wood insets on the Magnum Missle would leave the open recesses, which would still make it different from a Hustler.

Hope that this helps.

bulleteer
03-18-2007, 07:22 AM
Man all this racing history is truely great. I have one stupid question though. My dad owned some inline 6's when I was younger but I never heard of the twister before. What was it and why did it have the plates on the side?

Thanks, Gary

Mark75H
03-18-2007, 10:07 AM
Maybe there should be a separate special thread about the tuned exhaust racing Mercs that explains all that.

Twisters were special race only Mercs with racing lower units that did not have neutral or reverse.

The big plates on the side were a tuned exhaust system that replaced the 3 large (and loud) megaphones formerly used on Merc's racers. Parts of the system were applied to the 1972 and later inline 6 Merc 90, 115, 140, 150 and 150XS motors.

Use this link to see the search results for Twisters on ScreamandflySearch for Twister on History forum (http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/search.php?searchid=696701) There are over 450 references on that link

bulleteer
03-18-2007, 08:13 PM
Thanks alot.

:D :D :D :D

Gary

warrior74z
05-22-2007, 08:32 PM
Lake X in its prime. Lets hear it again from those who worked or tested there in 60's and 70's. Shout it out guys.

jlf56
05-26-2007, 02:47 PM
Steve, I am Joe FIelder, the idiot that crashed the Glastron T-74 at Havasue in 1970. What has become of Bill (your brother), Don Pruit, Tommy Posey, Johnny Sanders and others. I will try to learn this site to catch up on 37 years of gap-history. I am now 65 years old, living in Port O'Connor Texas. I never knew there was a site like this. Your thread is interesting. I made a trip or two to Lake X also. Gary Garbrecth (sp) was in charge of Mercury racing at the time. My best memory of "X" was Mr Karl's GoCart that had an inline 6 cyl. 120 c.u. I think on it. I wanted badly to get on it and see what it would do, but was sternly told that it would cost me my job even if I sat on it.
If you are in touch with any of the "old timers, please give them my E-mail address, I would like to hear from them.
Take care.
Joe Fielder

seeroy
05-28-2007, 09:01 PM
Hi Joe - Sad to say Bill died in January 1997 as a result of a 5 year battle with multiple myloma. The only other that you asked about, that I know of is Don Pruett. Don also passed away a number of years ago. I think you will find that folks on this site are incredibly informative. Sam Cullis has an amazing memory for history of all things Mercury and spent a great deal of time with both Bill and Don. I towed a boat to Havasu for Bill in 1971. While there, Pruett arrainged for he and I to fly McCullough gyrocopters with a couple of their company pilots. We took off in formation then split to spend an incredible hour terrorizing desert wildlife from about 20' AGL. I spent all night after the 1st race day working with Angelo(?) Molinari repairing a sponson on Bills's boat. As I remember, he spoke no English, and I damn sure did not speak Italian. It was an interesting night. It was Bill's second win at Havasu but sadly Pruett was seriously injured in a crash somewhere around the right dogleg.

Best Regards - Steve Sirois

T2x
05-29-2007, 07:22 AM
Steve, I am Joe FIelder, the idiot that crashed the Glastron T-74 at Havasue in 1970. What has become of Bill (your brother), Don Pruit, Tommy Posey, Johnny Sanders and others. I will try to learn this site to catch up on 37 years of gap-history. I am now 65 years old, living in Port O'Connor Texas. I never knew there was a site like this. Your thread is interesting. I made a trip or two to Lake X also. Gary Garbrecth (sp) was in charge of Mercury racing at the time. My best memory of "X" was Mr Karl's GoCart that had an inline 6 cyl. 120 c.u. I think on it. I wanted badly to get on it and see what it would do, but was sternly told that it would cost me my job even if I sat on it.
If you are in touch with any of the "old timers, please give them my E-mail address, I would like to hear from them.
Take care.
Joe Fielder

Don Pruett passed away. He had a number of health problems due to his crashes. I believe Tommy Posey and John Sanders are still alive. Gary Garbrecht died a couple of years ago, he had a massive heart attack on a golf course.

I worked closely with Pruett on a few projects and was a friend of Bill Sirois. I'm not sure if Sam knew them or not.

T2x

jlf56
05-29-2007, 11:48 AM
Tx2 Thanks for the reply. Steve Serois already informed me about Bill and Don. Don and I went into the marina bussiness in 1973 in St Pete Beach. That was a trip. He had that idiot monkey, Flint, that liked to piss on people and of for sure Don gave him many chances to do just that. We parted company in 1974 and he took another partner, Bobby McNeely and changed the name from P&F (Pruett & Fielder) to P&M (Pruett & McNeely) Randy Raba was building boats there then and several other "interesting" characters. What name goes with the Tx2? Thought you might be someone that I knew back then.

Thanks, Joe Fielder

jlf56
05-29-2007, 12:15 PM
Steve, Sorry I misspelled your name in the post To T2X and to T2X for copying his handle wrong. If it wern't for not being able to spell and inverting numbers and letters I would have no assets. About English and the Molinari's, I had a simulair thing with Renato at Havasu in 1971. I was trying to convey an idea to him about his V-bottom speed record setting hull over a few drinks. He finally stopped me and motioned to come with him to his room. That turkey spoke english, but only when he wanted to !! I was very surprised to see pictures of him in I think the late 70's or early 80's and he was 200# or better. He & I were always about the same size, 135#. That got me in trouble in the spring of 70 or 69 when he broke his neck in Austin Tx diving in the lake from the back of a boat after he tested it. We were setting up a wood 18' for him to drive at Miami in our Austin shop (Glastron) With him in the hospital we took the boat to Miami and they told me to drive it. I was the twin driver and really had no feel for the single. Scottie and I swapped the lead several times and finally I went over my head and gave the thing its head going out into the bay. Yep, Blew by him and then straight up for what seemed like a 100 ft. Harold reminded me that to win a race you had to finish, oh well, never did get that right.
Those were great days and all the old drivers were all great guys.
Remember at Grand Lake, Ohio, Bill Petty's home when Tommy Posey showed up with a sticker on his boat that said " Do Not Immerce In Water ". That was the year he blew over just about every time he got in the boat. Will write more later.

Thanks, Joe Fielder

seeroy
06-18-2007, 10:45 AM
OK Brownie - No stories yet but I will post a few pics to test my skills. Yea, that's me at the Siesta Key test station when I was young, skinny, bulletproof and invisible.
-Steve<O:p</O:p

gofish7070
07-26-2007, 03:57 PM
Keep in mind everyone this was in the late "60's,,,,,,,,,,After working out of Lake X for a couple years somehow wound up at the FDL boathouse,where just a handful of guys worked but its where Wayne Mayer ( Engine Builder Extrodinare) built the majority of the 4-cycle race engines,,,,,,,,, It was were Mr. K used to come when he wanted to get lost from the main plant,,,,,,,,, Anyway one day he came in and talked to Phil Schenk and myself and explained he had a project for us,,,,,,,,, It seems a company in California was developing ground effects machines (hovercrafts) and he was having them sent to the boathouse where he wanted us to become experts on operating them, it seems the company wanted Mercury to build and develop lightweight hi-horspower engines for this project. Within a couple of weeks we were to give a demonstration to a group who was to determine market feasability for this program,,,,,,,,,, When these things arrived,,,,they were a tad crude,,,,,,, we were sitting on top of a modified Volkswagon engine with a stick coming up between our legs,this engine drove a fan in the front which of course gave us lift,as well as the fan behind us which gave us speed and maneuverability,, we had a rocker swithch on the throttle which dropped a brush on the side which trapped the air,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,OK this was our project,,,,,,,,,,,, On a road you could get it to about 30MPH not bad On water Maybe 20 MPH and on Grass maybe 20MPH depending how tall the grass was as it created resistance,,,,,,,,,,, After a week or so of playing with this thing we became somewhat efficient,,,,,, However we also discovered we could only sit on the seat about 15 minutes at a time,as that VW engine was like a blowtorch blowing up your A--,,,,,,,,,,, Any way after acouple of demonstations The Execs at Merc agreed that it was a limited market type of thing,and went off to do their snowmobile thing,,,,, Not thinking to much about it one day received a call from Ms. Rose Mr K. wanted to see me,Going to his office he explained that the Mercury Distrbutor in Canada ( Sorry forget his name) had taken on this product and he wanted Mr. K to re visit the item,,,,,,,,,,,, He than sent me and John Hull a exec with the company to Winnipeg Manitoba to drive the new and improved version of this thing,,,,,,,,,,,, Well please understand that early in the month of May it is Cooooooooooold in Canada,,,, They asked us to meet them at some lake their,,,,,,,,,,,, Their are no lakes their that time of the year their are ICE CUBES their,,,,,,,,,,,,, We are standing on ice and they bring out this machine, which after seeing it was just like the crude version we tested,,,,, however about 40 more Horsepower, John looks at me and says well go Check her Out,,,,,,,,,, I than put on every piece of clothing I had and fire it up,,,,,,,,,,,, Keep in mind this thing came from California I came from Lake X,,,,,,,,,,,, One thing they forgot to tell me,,,,,, No one has run this thing on ICE,,,,, Their is no resistance while it was designed to go max out around 40,when I flew buy the group on the ice it was estimated around 70 with no resistance no chance of slowing down,,finally I see a patch ahead of me This is fluffy snow,,,,that means a lot of resistance,I aimed for that and when hitting it threw up a huge snowball it was like throwing out a 1000 lb anchor,launching me off this thing,,,,,, , No It did not get my endorsement and The project ended,,,, Later on these things did get deveoped and were awesome for rescue work,,,,,,,,but back oin the 60S That was my wildest Ride..............

seeroy
07-26-2007, 07:59 PM
Come on Jim. You're originally from snowbird country! Surely you could have handled a little run on the ice followed by a quick refreshing dip in the snow :D. Sounds like a good reason to follow up with a little Schnapps. I enjoyed the story....Good fun. I haven't written anything over here in quite awhile, but have had alot of fun over on OSO and have enjoyed you being there as well. I love this site, but Brownie is so damn much fun over on OSO, that I've spent alot of time there. Best Regards - Steve

gofish7070
07-27-2007, 08:09 AM
Thanks Steve, OSO is good stuff,enjoy it a lot thought I would try to revive this site a little bit, Loved your Gene Berg story as I know you and I and Gene were on the midnite shift a long time to-gether,,,,,,,,, I Think we had George in the tower,and Ed Luthie in the shop,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,as I think back,,,, Its hard to believe they paid us for all the experience we collected,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Would love to hear of your wild ride, Maybe in a fighter jet????????????????????? Come on down,,,,,,,,, Fishing tournament this week-end,,,May-be sometime OK

seeroy
07-28-2007, 01:16 PM
Warrior74z - I took your Lake X picture and added some titles to it. Current Google Earth image shows that the old building and the motel are gone. - Steve Sirois

lilabner
07-28-2007, 03:15 PM
Looking at it on Google, looks like you can see the boat fire pit..where a lot of those missing wonders are.

Butch

seeroy
07-31-2007, 07:50 PM
Great news! Barron and Sherry Cooley sent me .tiff scans of the 2 pictures of Lake X that he recently posted on this site. Barron is a record setting drag boater from the 80's, and Sherry is the computer whiz in the family. Each file is 2.1 MB.....That means great definition! All of you Lake X old farts need to look very closely at these 2 pictures. If you are at all like me, those pictures should get the brain synapsis' firing again and pull old stories from your memories which you will immediately post on this site. After looking at these pics for awhile, I'm not sure exactly when they were taken. I'm starting to think they might have been taken shortly before I got there. The boat in the slip appears to have white motors on it. If Barron does not mind I would be happy to send the .tiff files to anyone. Since they are 2.1 MB, they are larger than what is permissible to post here. In the near future, I hope to associate specific places in these pics with some of the stories that I have previously written in this thread. Should be fun. We all owe Barron and Sherry a huge Thank You for sharing these treasures. - Steve Sirois

warrior74z
07-31-2007, 08:51 PM
Steve,
Thank you very much for the compliments. I just had these pics from our old dealership files we saved. YOU worked at The Lake. You do what you like with these pics. I think those are all I have from the Lake, but do have a few more official Mercury photos. One of my favorites is My Dad and Mr K at the sacrificial bonfire at Mr K's house. On the Lake X pics I looked with a magnifying glass at the boats and decided the one running is a Powercat, and the one with white Mercs looks like it is too. I sent one to the Powercat guy on site and he thought so also. Wouldn't that put it probably '62 since that was the first year of the black 100 horse Merc?<O:p</O:p

seeroy
07-31-2007, 09:00 PM
Barron - I'm not sure about white/black motor dates, but I agree that running boat looks like Powercat. Butch Stokes and Sam Cullis will probably be able to help us ref dates. I already sent .tiff files to Sam at his request. Hopefully they went through to him. Gotta hang it up for tonight. - Steve

warrior74z
07-31-2007, 09:09 PM
This is Mr Kiekhaefer and My Dad, Ed Cooley at (I think) Mr K's house at the cliff?? It was at the annual dealer meeting in the mid 60's. (seems like I remember those jackets as 1967) As I read in The Iron Fist (everyone should read!) Mr K would hang a Johnrude upside down on a great tripod and light the sacrificial fire as the tribe went wild...Those were the days...
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x258/warrior74z/DadandCarl.jpg

gotboostedvr6
07-31-2007, 10:30 PM
great thread!!

gofish7070
08-01-2007, 10:01 AM
Great Stuff,,,,,,,,,,,,, Think '67 was the correct year for those jackets, However the infamous bonfire was at a dealer meeting at a place called L"Esterel,in the mountains north of Montreal,,,,,,,, While at the meeting some indian chief up there renamed Carl K. Big Chief Swift on Water,seeingthe old man with a indian headdress on trying to do a war dance was a real Hoot,,,,,,,,,,, While at that meeting Ken Baker was there with his over 100 MPH drag boat, Hearing the sound of that stacked drag engine re-verberating through those mountains was just a instant echo chamber,,,,,,,,, Real good times,,,,,, Their may have been another bonfire at the ledge later on, that i'am not familiar with but that deal in Canada was awesome, Great Photos

seeroy
08-01-2007, 10:30 AM
Jim - Are you in touch with Fred Kiekhaefer (Or should I say, "Fred, are you here?"). If so, perhaps he has pics of the Lake covering different time periods. - Steve

gofish7070
08-01-2007, 12:57 PM
Last time I saw Fred was a couple years after Mr. K's funeral,, Havent been back to FdL in many years,,,,,,,,, However am going to a Packer game in September,will look him up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Could kick myself for not being a photo bug, but at the time I just never thought it would end,,,, Boy was I wrong.

warrior74z
08-01-2007, 08:06 PM
Speaking of Mr K's funeral, I always thought this print that the factory sent the dealers was a very nice, simple tribute. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x258/warrior74z/Image1.jpg

warrior74z
08-01-2007, 08:47 PM
Hey Guys,
Thought I'd post this again in a larger format.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x258/warrior74z/lakexscan_edited-1.jpg

warrior74z
08-01-2007, 08:48 PM
Another one in a larger format. Lake X early 60's.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x258/warrior74z/lakexIIscan_edited-1.jpg

seeroy
08-02-2007, 06:08 AM
Way to go Barron and Sherry! We all appreciate the large format pics. -Steve

2us70
08-02-2007, 01:21 PM
So Lake X was actually Lake Conlin? No wonder I never knew exactly where it was. Unlike several others on this forum I was never priveleged to be invited to "The Lake". I am still jealous.

velox
08-02-2007, 07:38 PM
So Lake X was actually Lake Conlin? No wonder I never knew exactly where it was. Unlike several others on this forum I was never priveleged to be invited to "The Lake". I am still jealous.

I visited lake X a couple of times in the early sixties, but I don't remember it at all. I went with George Griley to "borrow" some stuff to rig the boat we won the '64 Unlimited 6 hour Grand National Marathon. We later went back up to pickup the very first set of the new dual pinion speedmasters given out to non factory racers. I hardly remember it , except we had to be cleared in through a security gate.
Butch went there a lot more and actually raced and won his class at the 62 OPC 6 hour. He also set a kilo record at the same time.
I would have been there, but we set our alarms to leave Miami in the very early AM and the alarm failed to go off. This turned out to be the classic OPC race of all time!

seeroy
08-02-2007, 08:28 PM
Hi Charlie - This more fun than going from +7g to -3g in about 2 seconds....and I know... that you know what I mean...Keep the blue side up...at least once in awhile. :D -Steve

velox
08-04-2007, 01:51 AM
Hi Charlie - This more fun than going from +7g to -3g in about 2 seconds....and I know... that you know what I mean...Keep the blue side up...at least once in awhile. :D -Steve

I haven't pulled any G's in a while. My son, David got hurt very badly last March skiing so we haven't got the plane out so far ths year. We worked on i today and plan on flying it tomorrow!
We do plan on getting back in aerobatic shape soon.
It takes me a solid week to get where I don't get sick! He can get back much sooner than I. Someday you will have to go up with one of us.Its not a jet, but it goes 3000 feet vertical and rolls in .75 Seconds . The G's are up to the pilot. The most I have ever seen are -5.5 and + 7.5.

gofish7070
08-04-2007, 12:56 PM
Hey I'm reaching for the barf bag,,,,,,,,,,, just looking at those numbers,,,,,,,,, Seeroy can you believe over 25K hits on this thread,,,,,,,,,And they paid us for that stuff,,,,,,,,,,

seeroy
08-06-2007, 05:37 PM
OK Lake X, Mercury, and Boat Racing Aficionados, get your memory hats on. Some time back, I said I would post a list of names that I had typed a few years ago, IF I could find it on this darn computer. Well, I finally found it and realized it is not as extensive as I had thought. Also, through this site and OSO I have found out what did happen to some of them and re-established contact with others. Therefore, I have removed their names from the list, which made it even smaller. I will also post this on OSO. Anyway, the list follows. If you can add any information on these folks, please do. Best Regards to all - Steve Sirois
The list -
Freddy Kiekhaefer.
Anita Kiekhaefer.
Helen Kiekhaefer
Freda Kiekhaefer
Mabry Edwards
Jim Wagner
Jean Wagner
Joe Anderson
Red Anderson
Jake Andrson
Pete Anderson
Chet Strickland
Dale Thayer
Gene Wagner
George Anderson
Ed Finley
Billy Steele
Joe Swift
Dave Adams
Billy Marshall
Bob Eider
Pete Brogan
Joel Dumbolten
Clarence Pennel
Rachel (Lake X Maid)
Charlie Rush
Jim Emerson
Izzy Lashmore
Dave Martin
Jim Tebo
Wayne Vickers
Mel Riggs
Odell Lewis
Mike Ramsey
John Stenbeck
Roger Stenbeck
Ed Luthie
Gene (midshift)
Wayne Meyer
Roy Ridgell
Jim Stough
George Thompson
Gene Berg
John Laterneau
Johnny Bakos
Red Crise
Shirley Schwebbes
Ted Collins
Bruce Pfeiffer
John Flood
Al Copeland
Doug Janisch
Larry Smith
Cotton Simms
Dean Schallenberger
George (tower)
Sammy James
Jake Trotter
Jim Bruell
Jim Armington
Buckeye Marine
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/ /><st1:City w:st=<ST1http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/ /><st1:PlaceType w:st=lake</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceName w:st=" /><st1:State w:st="on"><ST1:p</st1:State>Barry Cohen
Dick Clark
Jerry Gilbreath
Jack Gilbreath
Jim Harkins
Dave Stirrat
Bob Magoon
Barry Cordingly
Jerry Howard
Ray Dowling
Dave Martin
Bill Davis
Eddie Morenz
Ed Leslie

jlf56
08-06-2007, 06:45 PM
Steve, I don't remember when, but Roy Ridgell (red headed and worked the Europe operations) died some time back. His brother , Bob, lives here in the Port O'Connor, Texas area. The Bob Magoon, wasn't that the Dr. that owned the offshore boats?? Billy Steele, I think was the guy in the picture I have from Havasu Renato and Carlo Racini's daughter. He appeared to be in his fifty's then (1966).

Joe Fielder

Mark75H
08-06-2007, 07:12 PM
Joe Swift's son Jimmy is a member here on screamandfly: http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/member.php?u=18185 jimmiswift

He responded on post # 136 of this thread.

seeroy
08-07-2007, 06:11 AM
jlf56 - Joe - Indeed Dr Bob Magoon was (is) the eye surgeon that was highly succesful offshore racer. He was very close friend of Don Aronow. He set records to include Miami to New York. He ran Kiekhaefer Aeromarine for some time. I rode with him in one Around Long Island race in twin outboard Magnum. We puked and engine about 1/3 of the way and had to withdraw. - Steve Sirois

Seven
08-07-2007, 10:47 AM
Great storys are told here! Thanks for that :)

A thing i don't understand: How could Lake X be undiscovered for such a long time? It seems like there were so many people around...didn't they tell others where Lake X is?

By the way...was Lake X private property?

Thanks for all the storys and keep on coming up with new ones!
M

seeroy
08-07-2007, 11:37 AM
OOPS! I did not mean to say earlier that Doc Magoon RAN Kiekhaefer Aeromarine. I meant to say that he ran boats powered by KAM. -Steve

seeroy
08-07-2007, 12:02 PM
Seven - Sounds like you got your moniker from Seinfield episode where George wanted to name a child "Seven". As to Lake X ownership. Original official name is Lake Conlin, and it is listed as such on maps. As I understand, it was acquired by Mr Kiekhaefer around 1960, +or- a couple of years. When he no longer owned the company, he leased it back to the company and the family finally sold the property to a private owner at some point after his death. I do not know the name of new owner but he built a house (complex) on the North end of the lake. My brother once told me that he had met or knew the new owner. I looked at his complex from the air around 1997 and was impressed. I have attached 2 Google earth pics. One shows the entire property which is approximately 17 miles around. The other pic shows the new owners complex at the North end of the lake. I hope he does not consider this a violation of his privacy. There are others on this site that can give much better, and probably more accurate, information on the ownership of Lake X. -Steve Sirois

T2x
08-07-2007, 12:49 PM
Lake X was private property and it was on a side road about a mile north of the main highway that ran through St.Cloud and Kissimmee. If you were'nt given directions you would never have known where it was. In addition, even if you knew where it was you would not have gotten through the guarded gate house. After the old man sold it, the new owner started something called the "Lake X Cattle company" and converted it to a cattle ranching operation. I knew his name at one time but, like so many other things, it has been lost to a "senior moment".

T2x
08-07-2007, 01:01 PM
See a few answers below




Freddy Kiekhaefer. Currently President of Mercury Racing in Fond Du Lac

Jim Emerson Just retired after years of running the Mercury race truck at offshore races. He also was head tech and rigger on our Jesse James projects.
Wayne Vickers Invented an Espresso machine and moved to New England somewhere
Mel Riggs Still rigging in Wisconsin in his own shop

John Stenbeck Last seen working for His REggieness about 8 years ago
Johnny Bakos Posts on this website

John Flood Back in Oshkosh I think
Al Copeland Still kicking and owns at least two or three TUrbine Skaters and various other toys...no race boats however
Larry Smith Still designing original Cigarette copies in California
Barry Cohen active in Antique race boat activities and restorations and still owns a few antique hulls
Jerry Gilbreath Currently crew chief for the AMF turbine boat "Miss Geico"
Jack Gilbreath deceased
Billy Martin Just resumed his racing career in local northeast events

seeroy
08-07-2007, 02:01 PM
T2 - Great update on some folks. Thank You. A couple of years ago I was in Kissimmee and figured, what the Hell, I think I will ride out to the Lake. It was eerily quiet at the front gate. There was a call box at the gate and a "Lake X Cattle Company" sign. I pushed the button but got no response. It was an incredibly lonely feeling standing there looking into the property. I went away feeling like an amazing piece of history had just faded into anonymity. For anyone that feels the call of Lake X, Go South/East out of Saint Cloud on US 441/192, when you pass 15/Narcoossee Road, check your odometer and procede for 3.9 miles, angle Left onto the Old Melbourne Highway, go 4.3 miles and on the left will be at the Lake X Gate (assuming that it is still there). Just inside of the gate you will see the end of the 5000' paved runway with an X on the end. If you are fortunate enough to be flying, it is not hard to find. I have attached a Google Earth image of the road from 441 to the gate. It is actually a very nice ride. -Steve Sirois

blkmtrfan
08-07-2007, 02:24 PM
Larry Smith Still designing original Cigarette copies in California

Thanks for that one Rich :D

moparbarn
08-07-2007, 02:27 PM
i went to school at the sanford naval academy in sanford, fl. from 66 to 69. used to go down 441/192, going home to miami. amazing to think i drove THAT close to the lake so many times. lake x is a somewhat mythical place to all us non racers. up until these past few posts, i had no idea where it was, other than central fl. knowing where it was wouldn't have done me any good, but damn-that close:eek: . thanx to all for sharing all the history. i grew up around it, but not in it, all these posts bring it into perspective for those of us not involved back then. once again, a heartfelt thanx to all of you guys for sharing. one more reason i love the boating community, and s&f:) .

Bruce Washburn
08-07-2007, 02:38 PM
I beleive the current owner's last name is Kirchman ?spelling? It is also interesting to note that a massive Housing development was started in 2000 between 441 and old Melbournne Hwy. just across the street from the Lake. This may have been one of the contributing reasons why the Lake went away.

I saw Janish about 6 to 7 years ago in Lauderdale he was getting ready to move at the time and was battling Parkinsons.

Seven
08-07-2007, 02:58 PM
Yes, i found out that Kirchman Corporation is the new owner.

Steve, my moniker isn't from Seinfield :rolleyes: it's only a number that i like very much :D

So was the whole property fenced in and guarded? Did some competitors tried to sneak in??? :eek:

M

Seven
08-07-2007, 03:01 PM
By the way, is THIS (http://maps.google.de/maps?f=l&hl=de&geocode=&q=mercury+marine&near=&sll=30.14985,-85.634815&sspn=0.052324,0.07699&ie=UTF8&ll=30.148476,-85.631443&spn=0.006541,0.009624&t=k&z=17&om=1) X-Site?
I can see a few yellow boats, as i read somewhere that these yellow boats are the Mercury racing boats.

moparbarn
08-07-2007, 03:46 PM
hey seeroy, there's those yellow boats again:D .
seven-i don't think that's it, too many houses and docks. but i'm really not qualified to say, someone else needs to answer that.

T2x
08-07-2007, 04:17 PM
By the way, is THIS (http://maps.google.de/maps?f=l&hl=de&geocode=&q=mercury+marine&near=&sll=30.14985,-85.634815&sspn=0.052324,0.07699&ie=UTF8&ll=30.148476,-85.631443&spn=0.006541,0.009624&t=k&z=17&om=1) X-Site?
I can see a few yellow boats, as i read somewhere that these yellow boats are the Mercury racing boats.

That is the new X-Site facility in Panama City we are talking about the old Lake X......in St.Cloud

Seven
08-07-2007, 04:31 PM
Yes T2x, that's what i asked for...if this is the new site ;)
Just to have a comparison to the legend.

Tom Smyth
08-07-2007, 04:44 PM
Was lucky enough to get a tour of the old Lake X site by a buddy who knew the manager there. Was there while they were starting to pack things up. Forget the guys name who walked us around, think it was Bill ?? Had been there 30 plus years.Anyways the story he told me was that Kirchman Corporation actually owned the property since the late 80's and was leasing it to Mercury Marine. He says Mercury opted out of the lease for several reasons, a couple being the lake was too small anymore for the speeds,the need for offshore testing and they looming influx of housing development. He did say that Kirchman planned to patrol the property and NOT sell it, but turn it into a nature preserve. Evidently this Kirchman guy invented the ATM machine and is one of the richest men in the World.

They walked us everywhere on the property,the timing tower, old motel, in the main shop but would not let us near the " outboard shop".
Bill also mentioned the second story of the main building did house one of the largest outboard motor collections in the "world" that was owned by Kirchman. He said no one was allowed up there . I asked anyways and he laughed at us.....

Story as i was told. they also checked us for cameras / phones with cameras at the gate.



Thats the story i was told. Like Ripley says.. Believe it or not.. Smytty

Tom Smyth
08-07-2007, 04:46 PM
I did get to look in the "scrap aluminum pile" and was uttelry amazed at the outboard blocks and at least 6- 7 #6 stern drive housings in there... Ones man junk........

Smytty

seeroy
08-07-2007, 08:24 PM
Tom - At some time after the new building was built at Lake X several of us were tasked with setting up the "Museum" on the 2nd floor. I think there was a huge conference table in the middle. As I remember, we uncrated pretty much one of every outboard and inboard/sterndrive that the company had produced up to that point, plus some race engines and some other rare old outboards to include a Waterman. Additionally, we hung some drone aircraft engines and some chain saws from the ceiling. I bet some of you didn't know that Mr K produced those. It was part of what kept the company going during wartime. Seems that there was also a pair of stacked inline six's. We mounted all of the outboards on Black Khiekhaefer stands. the engines were arranged around the perimeter of the room in ascending order. This may have been in the year that the Dealer/Press conference was held there. That is another story in and of itself. I don't know when all of these relics came to the Lake, but for awhile they had been stored in the warehouse area across the driveway from the old shop. We moved them to the new building and forklifted them up to the 2nd floor. I am truly glad you mentioned the "Museum" as I had completely forgotten about it. Sometimes it takes a little kick in the head to break old memories loose from the grey matter and they then work their way to my fingertips and into this darn computer. Hopefully there are others on this site that can add more info about the "Museum". I'm sure that Jim Hauser can add some and correct some of what I have provided. Thanks for jiggling the grey matter and Best Regards - Steve Sirois

mbd29
08-08-2007, 06:30 AM
Steve: The engines Bruce is talking about are Kirchman's engines. I was at the Lake when he called Don and told them he had just purchased them from a guy up here in Wisconsin. If my memory serves me correctly he was calling from his corperate plane.

The engines you mention are back up in Fond du Lac. They are all in storage waiting for Mercury to build a museum. Some were added when G. G. wanted to complete the collection to include all the outboard race engines we built after the 1250 Stacker, which you mentioned. They included the Twister I, TII, TIIX, 650X, 700X, and 1750XS.

Lee Soda says Hi. He works here in Fond du Lac. Has over 40 years at Mercury. He remembers your times at the Lake.

T2x
08-08-2007, 07:02 AM
When we were setting up the "Rolling THunder" Offshore outboard cat at the Lake, we encountered a "technicality". This was the only offshore race boat to ever use tunnel boat V-6's (2 liter T3's)....complete with SSM 4's. The engines were, of course, all direct drive and had no shifting capability. The rules required that at least one engine had to be capable of forward and reverse. So........ we went upstairs to the museum and swiped a DR (direct reversing) starter motor off of an antique 800 "Dock buster" engine, rewired the ignition to reverse the firing cycle and created the world's only T-3 "Dock buster"....Lord knows it would never have maneuvered the boat worth a damn but it did start. The whole changeover was controlled by a simple switch on the dash.

Part 2...... after two pretty impressive races, the boat was entered at New Orleans with a new throttleman, who shall remain nameless (he owns a major high performance marine steering and hardware company to this day....;) )
Anyway on his very first test session he was having trouble planing the boat..... (guess why!)

The more the boat struggled the more throttle he applied......... Eventually it came up and roared along in front of a group of us, all of whom were screaming at him to stop.......for naught.

Finally the "T-3 dockbuster", laboring mightily in opposition to its 3 brothers and lacking any cooling water at all........... began to heat up...... so hot in fact that the plastic cowl, acting like shrinkwrap, molded itself around the powerhead just as it expired.......

A sad end to probably the most underrated project in offshore outboard history..........

T2x

velox
08-08-2007, 09:55 AM
Does anyone have the Lat Lon Numbers for Lake X.
If we can get then everyone can use Googlr Earth to take a look.
I think the aviation charts used to show it.

transomstand
08-08-2007, 11:08 AM
Map coordinates are in this link. The best view can be had from the Windows live local map site, use "bird's eye view" gives you a view from about 1500 ft altitude.
81.116095 lat 28.216874 lon

http://maps.yahoo.com/broadband#mvt=h&trf=0&lon=-81.116095&lat=28.216874&mag=4

Pete

transomstand
08-08-2007, 11:17 AM
Here's a screen capture of the facility



http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/8073/lakexxa6.gif

seeroy
08-08-2007, 11:24 AM
Charlie - N28 degrees 12' 55" and W81 degrees 07' 3" will put you right over the top of the existing (new) shop. Thank God for GPS. -Steve

seeroy
08-08-2007, 11:27 AM
Transom - Wow! Guess I will have to leave Google Earth and start using Microsoft Virtual Earth. Looks like Bill Gates wins again. -Steve

merc1250bp
08-29-2007, 01:51 AM
Steve : Thanks to you and all who have told so many great stories about the lake and whatever comes to mind please add more. I'm new to S&F and have no racing experience but not new to Mercury,been a Merc fan since 1966 at age 5 and a Merc / Mercruiser mechanic for almost 30 years, something about that Phantom Black left a lasting impression for a lifetime.Been in Central Fl.for 20 years and have been very fortunate to have met some of the legends of the Kiekhaefer Corp. and Mercury that have been mentioned. 2 goals I wanted to acheive one I wrote Mr.Kiekhaefer back in 1981 to thank him for some great motors, which he kindly took the time in his busy schedule to respond back with a letter which was classic Mr. Kiekhaefer style, fortunately not directed at me, I will elaborate more if anyone would want more details, and two, set foot on Lake X property. It was around Nov. 1995 that John Culver finally took me over to the lake for a few hour visit where we met up with Don Schweb "Schwebie" as I was told. He took John and I all through the new building and upstairs to the museum, which apparently all the " museum" motors that were discussed were moved to Fond du Lac by this time because the only motors that were there, were well used and on wooden home made stands that all fell over! not a cast iron Kiekhaefer stand in sight. Another thing that I noticed while upstairs, and I asked myself what the hell was bunch of OMC clunkers motors, gas tanks, etc. doing at "Mercury"! We moved on to tour a little more outside and boy are you right about security apparently I got a little to close to the outboard shop and in my excitement not thinking were I was was quickly directed away from the top secrets of the day. I was so excited to be there I forgot ask if I could go up into the timing tower but got to see quite a bit, I thanked John and Don very much and was told by Don I was welcome to come back any time. Well its late and thats about it for my experience at the Lake, just felt I should post to this thread and I hope I have made this somewhat interesting,
Thanks again Steve, Rick.

seeroy
08-29-2007, 11:05 AM
Steve - Every little bit helps. I'm sure that we would all like to see that letter from Mr K. As I get a little older, I think I get a bit more nostalgic about my times at the lake and love to hear others tell about theirs. Sometimes the best stories are from those that were only there once. Like the song by Enya...."It's never as good as the first time" - Steve

oldskier
08-29-2007, 01:34 PM
I grew up in Charlotte Co. Fla in the '60's. Never even knew about Lake X in those days, but there was a facility in Placida near Boca Grande that had barbed wire all around it, and I was told it was a test facility. Anyone know what it was (is)?

transomstand
08-29-2007, 01:42 PM
I grew up in Charlotte Co. Fla in the '60's. Never even knew about Lake X in those days, but there was a facility in Placida near Boca Grande that had barbed wire all around it, and I was told it was a test facility. Anyone know what it was (is)?


That was the salt walter test facility. Moved to X Site as well. I stayed on Little Gasparilla in the late 90's. Lots of ugly yellow boats driving around with brand new Mercs. Engines bolted to docks running 24 hours a day.

Pete

oldskier
08-29-2007, 02:02 PM
Jeez, used to skinnydip on the point on the north end of Gasparilla Island leading into Lemon Bay. Now there are mega gazillion dollar stilt houses sitting there with their chin stuck out toward the Gulf waiting on the next big storm.

BarryStrawn
08-29-2007, 02:36 PM
Some posts had mentioned the owner of Lake X.

Ken Kirchman was the owner of the Lake X property as part of his 10,000 acre ranch. He also owned the Kirchman Corporation that was in the banking software business. Several of my coworkers worked for him and they tell stories about corporate parties at the ranch and working for Ken. From listening to the stories, it seems he was as peculiar as EC. I suppose they were friends.

The corporation was sold to Metavante a couple of years ago and I heard Mr. Kirchman passed away this spring.

transomstand
08-29-2007, 02:51 PM
Jeez, used to skinnydip on the point on the north end of Gasparilla Island leading into Lemon Bay. Now there are mega gazillion dollar stilt houses sitting there with their chin stuck out toward the Gulf waiting on the next big storm.

If my geography is right, Gasparilla Island is south of Little Gasparilla. We hung out a lot at the southern tip of Little Gasparilla, no skinny dippers though:D . Rented a house there with a boat, no cars, and no bridge to the island. Had to park the car at Gasparilla Marina, and drive the boat to the island, the Merc test facility was between the bridges. Really cool place, and a beautiful part of Florida, but sure wouldn't want to be there during a Cat 4 hurricane.

Pete

nianticgary
08-31-2007, 10:57 PM
I drove by the Placida facility several years ago when it was still in operation. Was there an airstrip on the right ,parallel to the road that came in from the East and led to the facility? Also, how far up and down the intracoastal did the test boats go? Steve mentioned working at the Siesta Key facility. Where was that on Siesta Key?? Gary Larson

transomstand
09-01-2007, 06:36 AM
I drove by the Placida facility several years ago when it was still in operation. Was there an airstrip on the right ,parallel to the road that came in from the East and led to the facility? Also, how far up and down the intracoastal did the test boats go? Steve mentioned working at the Siesta Key facility. Where was that on Siesta Key?? Gary Larson

Yes, driving in from Port Charlotte, there is a paved airstrip on your right just before you reached the test facility. Not sure how far those guys would go, we probably didn't go more than 8-10 miles from the island.

Pete

seeroy
09-03-2007, 08:06 PM
I drove by the Placida facility several years ago when it was still in operation. Was there an airstrip on the right ,parallel to the road that came in from the East and led to the facility? Also, how far up and down the intracoastal did the test boats go? Steve mentioned working at the Siesta Key facility. Where was that on Siesta Key?? Gary Larson
Gary - I will provide very specific info about Siesta Key in the next day or two. Too tired to do it tonight. - Steve Sirois