PDA

View Full Version : Highest Horsepower outboard of all time



dale robertson
11-05-2004, 03:57 PM
What do you think it was or is?

outboard bob
11-05-2004, 04:32 PM
OVER 600 HP ON THE BOB WARTNGNER MACH PROPELLERS RECORD SETTING HYDRO V8 JOHNSON .

joey jamz
11-05-2004, 04:40 PM
suzuki had a protoype v-6 2 storke in japan with a super charger that was putting out around 650hp for 30 mins till they blew up

Techno
11-05-2004, 06:49 PM
Not sure how big but I think they put OBs on the barge built artificial harbor at Normandy. They looked like gigantic engines mounted on the backs.
Barely mentioned it on the documentary.

Mark75H
11-05-2004, 07:10 PM
suzuki had a protoype v-6 2 storke in japan with a super charger that was putting out around 650hp for 30 mins till they blew up

Joey, I bet you can't find that rumor in print anywhere .... its just that, a rumor.

The Wartinger record setting V-8 only pulled 600+ for about 40 seconds ramping up to speed entering the speed traps. Thru the traps it ran without the power boosting nitrous.


As far as the most powerful outboard, it has to be one of those barge pushing jobs with the giant Detroit Diesel motor turned on its end. I thought it had been posted here, but I couldn't find it on a search.

dale robertson
11-05-2004, 08:06 PM
Why would he have gotten out of the nitrous going through the traps?

Mark75H
11-05-2004, 08:17 PM
Why would he have gotten out of the nitrous going through the traps?

He didn't need it to maintain speed thru the traps. He needed the extra power to get up to 170+ on the designated course. Officially you only have a kilo to run up to speed and a kilo to slow down (after the middle kilo which is the official record course) . You don't get 2 or 3 miles to come up to speed.

This is one of the engineering factors that few people take into account regarding breaking the existing speed record. Years ago is was simply a matter of finding a bigger motor; now the challenges increase exponentially. Back in the 1930's Bud Davie didn't have that much trouble getting up to 79 mph in the run up chute to his record run. 79 mph is a lot closer to zero and he had a full mile.

Wartinger did say that he felt that boat and motor could get closer to 200 mph with better water/weather conditions.

Jason Mosow
11-06-2004, 12:06 AM
800 + hp with two stages of N02. And live to tell about it.

largecar91
11-06-2004, 03:44 AM
HOW MANY HORSE WAS THE WIZARD MOTOR( THE 2 V-6 MERCS ON 1 MID)?? I HEARD IT TORE THE TRANSOM OFF THE BOAT??

dale robertson
11-06-2004, 07:49 AM
Quote:

800 + hp with two stages of N02. And live to tell about it

Jason, tell us more about your setup. Got any pictures of the engine.
One more question. Where do you carry your balls?

Raceman
11-06-2004, 08:07 AM
In addition to the nitros, the world record OMC was runnin' methanol also. It had not only very high pitch, but a one of a kind overdriven gear ratio lower. It needed the nitros to get goin'.

A lot of these big horsepower claims are the result of mathmatical calculations and/or estimates rather than hooking to an ACCURATE dyno.................. the key word being accurate.

neveredge
11-06-2004, 07:25 PM
It didn't tear the transom off. It was to heavy and the transom broke under the weight. A Johnson V8 went on to win that race.

racerx
11-06-2004, 09:31 PM
They just dynoed a 3 cylinder out board by my house that put out 1150HP at the crank with no nitrous,and should be at the 1st ODBA race in 2005 in unlimited.

Jason Mosow
11-06-2004, 09:34 PM
Look at the girls not the hoses.

Jason Mosow
11-06-2004, 09:37 PM
Be afraid!!!!!!

Jason Mosow
11-06-2004, 09:40 PM
Bye Bye, If any one wants to run Unlimted next year you better have your **** together, if you want to win!!!!!!!!!!!!

racerx
11-06-2004, 10:29 PM
Jason looks gooood.

Raceman
11-06-2004, 10:36 PM
Jason, I love ODBA unlimited racing, but if somebody asked who's won unlimited for the last several years, other than Marty, I wouldn't know the answer.

What I do know is who set the unlimited outboard world speed record that's stood for way too long. If you were to take that hydro and break it, I would think it would stand for eternity as far as two strokes are concerned. Instant imortality. Any interest?????

Jason Mosow
11-06-2004, 10:38 PM
I will be testing in about month, waiting on the new motor with Motec.

Jason Mosow
11-06-2004, 10:51 PM
Records are ment to be broken. On the record subject, when it was set they were adding a 15% angle deflection. Take Martys run from Marble Falls @ 8.25 at 134.98 mph, then add 15%, well you see were I am going with this. And I only had Marty running one stage. O, I beat Marty at Pylmouth this year. US Grand National Champion, my rookie year. And you how good Pugh Hydros run, no nitous @ 1100lb. I am sure you will hear about it soon enough.:D :D :D

Techno
11-07-2004, 01:19 PM
I tried finding something on these large OBs. They were called 'rhino barges' and apparently rhino barges were barges powered by 2 self propelled pontoon barges.

""Self-propelled pontoon barges and tugs are powered by outboard propulsion units. These units have been specially designed for this purpose and readily installed on tugs or barges of any size. The propulsion unit is essentially a heavy-duty outboard motor, consisting of a propulsion mechanism and a marine diesel engine mounted on a heavy structural base. Propulsion power is carried from the engine through a right-angle housing and a vertical-drive housing to the propeller. Steering is affected by shifting the propulsion-force direction; the propeller can be turned around a vertical axis in either direction through a complete circle""

Look near the Sea bees name. This shows one with the prop up
.http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/reference/Normandy/Images/SC193920.JPG
Picture was tooooooooo big so made it a link

A better painting
http://www.history.navy.mil/ac/d-day/exdday/88-199-ea.jpg

And one just for scale.http://www.screamingeaglesthroughtime.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/20h.jpg

I think these win for the highest hp... well maybe not since they're deisal. largest torque anyway

Raceman
11-07-2004, 01:57 PM
Jason, I ain't so sure about that angle of deflection thing. I believe APBA kilo records and most international ones are set by time on a surveyed course rather than radar type timing.

Hot Shot Merc
11-07-2004, 02:06 PM
Whats the hp of Ray Leach and Jack Barsh in the ODBA?

Ray Neudecker
11-07-2004, 03:35 PM
Jason, since the records are determined by timing devices and not radar, it is hard to understand your reference to deflection angles. Your 800 HP claim would have to be substantiated by some real dyno figures before being belivable also. That nitrous is supposed to be used only in the engine.

Jason Mosow
11-07-2004, 03:44 PM
I am talking about Carvers run , not a kilo. Marty told me about the angle thing. His boat at that time was no were near were they said it was. And it was a radar gun not timming lights. RAY, If you know so much about what kind of power I can make then maybe I need to hire you. Hell I dont know any one that is going to waste a full pull on 2 stages of nitous on a dyno!

Mark75H
11-07-2004, 04:48 PM
I guess your engine couldn't stand 2 passes of 30-45 seconds to beat the current 176+ kilo record then either

It will be very interesting to see how things work out in the coming year :)

Best of Luck (from another Pugh hydro driver) !

Jason Mosow
11-07-2004, 05:32 PM
Thanks, I am going to try a set up that has never been used on a hydro. As far as lasting, Martys boat has made 15 passes on two stages and is still in good shape. For all the poeple that what to talk about dynos, find some one that will pay for the time and I will show you the numbers, on two diffent motors. But I am not paying $150 an hour for dyno testing. Any offers? RAY

racerx
11-07-2004, 07:31 PM
Rob,tallkin to Ray Leach told me he puts out 600HP,and i beleive he was the king in unlimited this year,so i guess with 800 it didnt matter......

dale robertson
11-07-2004, 07:36 PM
I guess your engine couldn't stand 2 passes of 30-45 seconds to beat the current 176+ kilo record then either

The engine on the boat that set the record made right at 580 H.P. The boat ran over 190m.p.h. testing with a prop that was later destroyed on one of the test runs. So you probably would'nt need much more horsepower than they had last time to set a new record as long as everything else was equal.

Jason Mosow
11-07-2004, 07:52 PM
Hats off to Ray Leach. They did their homework in the off season and we did not. New nitous system no testing, blew up 7 powerheads before I got control of things. We only ran 2nd stage on Martys boat 1 OBDA race. By the end of the year we broke all Martys old E.T. and MPH records. I just wanted to see Marty and Ray run one pass all out, but it did not happen. Hell I did not even get to run Ray all year. There will be a next year and work has all ready started. New boat for me and for Marty, out with the old school (Vic Peters) and in with the new (Jason Mosow). All I can say is next year anit going to be much fun for some folks!!!;) ;)

Jason Mosow
11-07-2004, 07:54 PM
You running Unlimited next year or just talking ****.

76baja18ft
11-07-2004, 08:41 PM
damn sounds like someone is mighty full of them self... might have to get a new helmet several sizes bigger:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :eek: :eek:

racerx
11-07-2004, 08:51 PM
No im not gonna run your class,gettin two old for those speeds,gotta give it to ya ,your boat looked very good in Plymoth,my buddy is going to run your classwith a seabold or pugh,not sure just yet,but should be good,so get out there and do some testing,and be safe.JC

Jason Mosow
11-07-2004, 09:56 PM
It aint talk **** if you can back it up!!!! I can show ya better then I tell ya! Hell, just come to some races next year and you will see!

Psyco
11-07-2004, 11:58 PM
They can talk all the chit they want,because they can back it up. You won't meet a nuttier,drunker,tuninger,gotta get the last bit, bunch of racers.:D They are living the life that most of us wanna live. These fellas have done their homework,broke more stuff,drank more beer, and spent more money then most folks on this board will. You keep talking yo smack,Jason. I got yo back.:cool:
He won't need a bigger helmut,but the way they drive they may need a larger cod piece.:eek:

Jason Mosow
11-08-2004, 12:33 AM
Some poeple just wish they were in my shoes. Others just hate. Dont hate the player hate the game, ODBA UNLIMITED OUTBOARD PILOT, at the age of 26. I am living my dream.

76baja18ft
11-08-2004, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by Jason Mosow
It aint talk **** if you can back it up!!!! I can show ya better then I tell ya! Hell, just come to some races next year and you will see!
well i didnt point a finger at anyone in particular.. but i guess u figured if the shoe fits wear it?...
i have seen you race and was there when u tore down the power head after melting the pistons in it....u seem to want to run vic into the ground.. but he didnt blow up powerheads left and right... and marty did win the world championship several times with vic's help...you just need a little less attitude....you are coming off as a world class jerk...which i dont figure you really are..
i have met marty on several occassions and he is a class act..

Jason Mosow
11-08-2004, 09:11 AM
I never said a bad word about Vic. I dont have an attitude, you just took it the wrong way. Unlimtited outboards have have gone to a new level, if you dont step up you will be left behind. You can either get onboard or get blown away, I quote Marty and Vic " It aint talking **** if you can back it up". And I plain on backing it up. Hell, got to go work on race boats for a living, talk it easy hope to see you at some races this year.;) I learned alot from Vic we just all wish he could get his drinking in control we would love to have him back. He quit us, we did not quit him. Say buddy whats your name?

worldchampuo
11-08-2004, 10:33 AM
Get off the KIDS back, he can tune on a boat better then any one out there. If it was not for him I would not even have made a race all year. He busted his ass all year and whopped up on some seasoned veterains, he can talk all he wants. When your good your good. Marty

Rusrog
11-09-2004, 01:33 PM
about Jason's success but it would seem to me that he is in pretty high cotton if he is indeed on a par with the likes of Tommy Dunn, Gordon Montague, Daryl Lane, Alex Hledin, Brenden Power, Jim Purcell, Bob Kottmann, Alan Stoker, Galen Burden, etc, etc...

Especially at the ripe old age of 26... It took those guys lots longer to get a handle on it.

Very impressive indeed...

Russ Rogers
Ft Worth TX

Psyco
11-10-2004, 12:34 AM
Somebody referred to Marty as a "class act"?:p "Classless maybe....:eek:

And insinuating that Gallen B is "High Cotton"? Maybe you is reffering to the white hair (watt's left of it) on his haid.:D

But really, all the guys that run Unlimited are the cream of the crop. You don't even step onto that feild unlees your rig is tuned to the ragged edge. And the Gods have smiled upon the racer who keeps it together and wins at the end of the day. You have to have some kind of sickness to push the envelope that far,that often. HOC has proven that they are capable of doing it. And I actually saw Galen's boat win a race this year (DSRA). They are the "show". Bring'em on fellas!!!!!

Didn't realize that Vic was having trouble. Hopefully will see him return with full capabilities. He's an awful nice and knowledgeable man.

T2x
11-10-2004, 10:52 AM
..... Just out of curiosity


How fast do the ODBA boats go in top speed and E.T. .....by class?

It seems to an outsider that the sport scrupulously guards against ever mentioning speed, E.T. ot horsepower......

T2x

Firestarter
11-10-2004, 11:42 AM
I always thought that if you added a 500hp nos kit to a 2-stroke you only got a 250 hit...... and even at that, the laws of diminishing returns applied.... those ports can only flow so much, and can only be made so big before you catch a ring........ just asking

RT

largecar91
11-10-2004, 06:26 PM
WHAT WAS THE HORSEPOWER ON THE OLD T-2 AND T2X'S? I WAS TOLD THAT THE T-2'S HAD MORE POWER BECAUSE MERCURY GOT A LITTLE CARRIED AWAY WITH PORTING ON THE T2X'S? ALSO WHAT WOULD THE POWER OF A KR MOTOR BE?

T2x
11-10-2004, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by largecar91
WHAT WAS THE HORSEPOWER ON THE OLD T-2 AND T2X'S? I WAS TOLD THAT THE T-2'S HAD MORE POWER BECAUSE MERCURY GOT A LITTLE CARRIED AWAY WITH PORTING ON THE T2X'S? ALSO WHAT WOULD THE POWER OF A KR MOTOR BE?

The T-2's did not have more power than the later x motors... WE got better acceleration and top end out of the T2x's in same boat testing.

T2x

Raceman
11-10-2004, 07:32 PM
My old APBA inspection sheets don't show different port timing between the T2 and T2X.

racer
11-15-2004, 11:52 PM
Dyno ready and waiting, just need an adapter and tower for a merc.

dale robertson
11-17-2004, 01:06 PM
They can't handle the truth. Kinda like back in the day the first time you borrow your buddy's Keller speedo.

BarryStrawn
11-17-2004, 01:20 PM
And a dyno test would require a healthy example of each. I don't remember seeing a good running example 25 years ago so I expect there are none today:)

T2x
11-17-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Raceman
My old APBA inspection sheets don't show different port timing between the T2 and T2X.

Regardless..

T2x's had a 12 inch center section as compared to 15'' for the T2... The exhaust tuners and center section configuration was more efficient... The adjustable height with a speed wrench helped as well.... We also had a variety of pistons to play with..and I swear we ran higher fuel pressure.. (different fuel pump and regulator) as I recall. I haven't raced one in 30 years ..but I ran a lot of t2's and t2x's...... and the x was a better motor all the way around.


T2x

Raceman
11-17-2004, 10:06 PM
"and the x was a better motor all the way around."

Never questioned that.................. I had both in the 70's and I have both now. One thing that puzzles me is the fuel pressure comment. Since pressure is irrelevant on a carb motor unless it's excessively high, or the volume is excessively low I don't see how that would be considered a factor. Matter of fact, I ran the same old Holley pump and regulator on my 1500XS, T2, T2X, and T3 (3 two barrel and 6 one barrel versions), and never changed the pressure until I started havin' trouble with the V6 blowin' the needles off the seats in the 3 two barrel carbs. It could've been the reason the damn T2's were contankerous sometimes too, but if so I never diagnosed it.

T2x
11-18-2004, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Raceman
"and the x was a better motor all the way around."

Never questioned that.................. I had both in the 70's and I have both now. One thing that puzzles me is the fuel pressure comment. Since pressure is irrelevant on a carb motor unless it's excessively high, or the volume is excessively low I don't see how that would be considered a factor. Matter of fact, I ran the same old Holley pump and regulator on my 1500XS, T2, T2X, and T3 (3 two barrel and 6 one barrel versions), and never changed the pressure until I started havin' trouble with the V6 blowin' the needles off the seats in the 3 two barrel carbs. It could've been the reason the damn T2's were contankerous sometimes too, but if so I never diagnosed it.

You know it's funny.... I may be having a memory issue but I recall a much more expensive aircraft style fuel pump with higher pressure being fitted to the T2x's...... We also went for the "red stuff".... Racing fuel instead of the green AV gas we used in the T2's...... I'm thinking compression went up....and, as I recall, so did RPM's. The problem is we jacked around with the x powerheads a lot more than with the older T2's.... Canadian S class allowed this....SST in the U.S. did not....so we had a variety of p'head configs...some with factory mods and some we did at home( O'Dea...with limited success..and a fella named Jack Clark who made monster power... Racing BMW mechanic). At some point we went to 24 volt systems for Lemans starts and rapid trim response... All of this is clouding my otherwise murky memory. (I can't help it... I went on my head a few times...;) )

T2x

largecar91
11-18-2004, 08:04 PM
Nice tow vehicle!

Raceman
11-18-2004, 11:15 PM
Ahhhh, a 73 Corvette roadster tow car. Not much room for tools or spares, but it would've beat the hell outa what I was drivin' then, and any Merc I had in that time frame was used.............. REAL used.

dale robertson
11-19-2004, 10:58 AM
Anybody remember the stink at the 74 Nationals when Buck Thornton changed the powerhead on his T-2 ? He replaced it with a T-2x powerhead he got from The Mercury Trailer and instantly went a lot faster. Jim Caldwell was pretty mad about it and was trying to protest the race before it began. I don't remember who won, but I heard later the protest went no where. I think the
T-2x powerhead probably became a superceeded part right then and there. I always like to see Jim get mad, he was quite
antimated.

Dale

Burley1
12-02-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by racer
Dyno ready and waiting, just need an adapter and tower for a merc.


Hell I would even chip in to pay and see this!!

I could most likely hear the bang from home.

T2x
12-02-2004, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Raceman
Ahhhh, a 73 Corvette roadster tow car. Not much room for tools or spares, but it would've beat the hell outa what I was drivin' then, and any Merc I had in that time frame was used.............. REAL used.
That picture was taken in '74...... My usual tow ride at that time was a big old Caddy that had some kind of problem that weekend....so the Vette got the nod. We had tools, props and spares in a pickup from the boatyard Right after that I bought my first conversion van to tow with.....put 60,000 miles on it in one year........ and sold it for a very slight loss ....
After that it was Ford Vans, Suburbans, dualies...etc.

The hull in the picture was a pickle fork Milesmaster ...... taught me one lesson.... never drive one again.

T2x

dale robertson
12-03-2004, 05:48 AM
The hull in the picture was a pickle fork Milesmaster ...... taught me one lesson.... never drive one again.
Why didn't you like it?

dale robertson
12-03-2004, 08:16 AM
My usual tow ride at that time was a big old Caddy

Mine was kinda sweet too. 65 faded blue slant 6 Valiant. Gave the boat a nice speedy finish from all the oil smoke.

Lyder
12-03-2004, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by T2x
That picture was taken in '74...... My usual tow ride at that time was a big old Caddy that had some kind of problem that weekend....so the Vette got the nod. We had tools, props and spares in a pickup from the boatyard Right after that I bought my first conversion van to tow with.....put 60,000 miles on it in one year........ and sold it for a very slight loss ....
After that it was Ford Vans, Suburbans, dualies...etc.

The hull in the picture was a pickle fork Milesmaster ...... taught me one lesson.... never drive one again.

T2x

My hart made a big jump when I saw that picture of the Miles Master and the T2x !!! I raced an exactly identical rig in class ON in Norway in 1975. (the boat was a 74 model) I JUST LOWED IT !
It suited me perfectly (the two previous owners gave it up), and I won most of the races in Norway that season. (top speed 103 miles). Sold the boat end of season -75 and boght a Molinary/T3 factory rig from Cees.v. V. I am trying hard to get hold of an old ON class (SST100) Schulze, Miles Master or Molinari. The
picture of your Miles saved my day thank you !!!

Markus
12-03-2004, 09:38 AM
Welcome, Lyder. There are already at least 3 Norwegians on the board already (Espen, Toffen and Yamaha 225)

Ray Neudecker
12-03-2004, 10:47 AM
Not sure why T2x disliked the Picklefork Miles. After several blowovers with the earlier versions (non picklefork). I loved the pickle fork version.

dale robertson
12-03-2004, 10:54 AM
After several blowovers with the earlier versions (non picklefork). Do you have any pictures of the earlier version? I don't remember what it looked like.

Raceman
12-03-2004, 12:43 PM
"My usual tow ride at that time was a big old Caddy that had some kind of problem that weekend....so the Vette got the nod."

Hahaha, in 74 I was so broke havin' a Caddy, a Vet AND a boat would'a been a pipe dream. I had a 2 car notes, a house note, 2 boat notes and a wife that hated my boat hobby. Fortunately the boat hobby outlasted the wife and all the notes are gone................ even made the final payment on the wife a long time ago. I ain't got the caddy, and my Vets ain't got hitches, but somehow I can usually find a tow pig of some kind in the yard if I want to pull one somewhere.

1BadAction
12-03-2004, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Raceman
I had a 2 car notes, a house note, 2 boat notes and a wife that hated my boat hobby.


jeeze raceman, no wonder you so against buying EVERYTHING on credit. thinking about that makes me happy i only have a car.

dale robertson
12-03-2004, 01:24 PM
After I made the last payment to the wife, she sent the kid to live with me so I could put her through college. At least the wife I have now used to buy me boats.

T2x
12-03-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Ray Neudecker
Not sure why T2x disliked the Picklefork Miles. After several blowovers with the earlier versions (non picklefork). I loved the pickle fork version.

I'm presuming you raced yours in Sport J....? Was it a fibreglass version or an original wooden hull?

My Mod U Miles loped like a b*t*h while accelerating......never settled on the bubble or popped the tail properly.... and couldn't hold the Molinaris in the straights.... I referred to it as the "Boat brought to you by the people who won World War 2........." Don Pruett drove one for Tony Rodriguez and that didn't exactly set the world on fire either.

I flipped it, barrel rolled it...and swore off it after 90 days. Maybe I should have raced it in Norway. .

It was unique looking though.

T2x

Lyder
12-06-2004, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by T2x
I'm presuming you raced yours in Sport J....? Was it a fibreglass version or an original wooden hull?

My Mod U Miles loped like a b*t*h while accelerating......never settled on the bubble or popped the tail properly.... and couldn't hold the Molinaris in the straights.... I referred to it as the "Boat brought to you by the people who won World War 2........." Don Pruett drove one for Tony Rodriguez and that didn't exactly set the world on fire either.

I flipped it, barrel rolled it...and swore off it after 90 days. Maybe I should have raced it in Norway. .

It was unique looking though.

T2x

I raced the original wooden boat in class ON (1500-2000ccm),
I never flipped the boat and it allways gave me warnings.
Raced a Schulze picklefork with Johnson Stinger the year before, flipped it on the first race and spent 6 months in hospital.
Heard later that three identical boats were made in a row and the two other drivers flipped and unfortunately did not survive (one German guy and one Austrian guy). After the Miles Master
I raced a picklefork Molinari, one of the first with "camel-back top"
similar to Bob Herings white Molinary from The High performance catalogue. -76 ?
I will send som ol' pictures as soon as possible.

Ray Neudecker
12-06-2004, 08:54 AM
I did race in Sport J with the picklefork or actually NOA called it S100 at the time. I never ran one in Mod U, but watdhed Kenny Kitson do well with one at the time.

T2x
12-06-2004, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Ray Neudecker
I did race in Sport J with the picklefork or actually NOA called it S100 at the time. I never ran one in Mod U, but watdhed Kenny Kitson do well with one at the time.

Kitson's Fibreglass versions were smaller and lighter.....mine was a big marathon (Paris) boat and had a deep tunnel...hence the acceleration problem..... it loved rough water......BUT....you didn't dare turn it aggressively in a heavy chop because of the extremely hard chines forward...... All in all it was lethal in US heat races...if you pushed it at all. THere were also some copies made in Canada by Lorne Penel I think...he eased up on the forward chines and they handled okay....again in SJ.....

T2x

T2x
12-06-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Lyder
I raced the original wooden boat in class ON (1500-2000ccm),
I never flipped the boat and it allways gave me warnings.
Raced a Schulze picklefork with Johnson Stinger the year before, flipped it on the first race and spent 6 months in hospital.
Heard later that three identical boats were made in a row and the two other drivers flipped and unfortunately did not survive (one German guy and one Austrian guy). After the Miles Master
I raced a picklefork Molinari, one of the first with "camel-back top"
similar to Bob Herings white Molinary from The High performance catalogue. -76 ?
I will send som ol' pictures as soon as possible.

You see ...I should have raced it in Norway.

The engine in the picture is a T-2. We ran the boat in about 8 races, plus weeks of testing, and used various power T-2, T-2 with T2x powerhead, and finally a T2x. It was quickest with the T2x...........The basic problem was the boat needed low rake props(tail lift)...and they were discontinued a few years before....so no good ones were available.

By the end of the year we had an older full tunnel Molinari and a pickle fork Molinari as well........ Once the pickle fork Molinari was set up..... the Miles never got wet again..... Last I heard of it...it was back at Oshkosh.

T2x

150aintenuff
12-06-2004, 11:01 PM
What were the advertised factory HP that the t1,t2,t2x put out, and just for kicks how about the t3 I know it was based on the 1750 but was it 175 hp or a little more.... would a t3 be equal to a s2000 motor at 160hp(prop) or was it more???
curious is all

Mark75H
12-07-2004, 08:05 AM
Nick, that is absolutely the most frequently asked question on this forum, I've probably answered it a million times. Using the Search function would have taken you to the answer quicker than waiting for me to respond and save us some server space. :)

Here it is again:

There never were any published figures on those motors.

The original Twister was claimed to be the same hp as the 1250 Super BP stacker, but with a lower, wider power band.

No figures at all in print on the Twister-1, T2, T2X or T3


Unoffical testing of the T2X put it at 185-190ish powerhead

T2x
12-07-2004, 10:45 AM
The t-3 was a bendix fuel injected 2 liter (1750 powerhead) with a LOT of mods from the factory.......... They were easily 25% more powerful than a T2x(at least in the mid range acceleration mode)..... and that was before the OZ mods which allowed methanol...and nitrous..for the UIM circuit.

Now the next question is...how powerful was the T2x?... I'll place the later ones (narrow ring...8000+ RPM at about 190-200 hp)

Figure the T-2's at about 165-175 hp.

T2x

150aintenuff
12-07-2004, 12:04 PM
i figured that 170-200 was in range for competitive motors and yes mark75 i did try search but mu computer was being STUPID and it wasnt working very well... so i asked...


thanks T2x

didnt realize that the t3 was that much stronger than the 1750

Raceman
12-07-2004, 12:21 PM
Actually there are different versions of the T3. Back then, if you weren't in a factory boat, you didn't get a Bendix. All the privateers ran carb T3's. They were basically 1750 production powerheads with plastic reeds, alum flywheels, tighter heads and locked timing on a 12" mid with an old Super Speedmaster like the T2 & T2X ran. (T2 of course had 5" longer driveshaft approx) I recall one of the guys who got a lot of factory help (Buck Thornton I believe, but wouldn't swear to it almost 30 years later) sayin' the new motor wasn't really any faster than his old one (T2X). Of course with familiarity/tuning/setup, all that changed. My first T3 had the exact same port timing as the production 1750 block that came in my std 76 model engine.

150aintenuff
12-07-2004, 12:31 PM
so it is safe to say that carb T3 was a mildly built production1750


would they compair to the s2000 that was made circa 1990-1994

T2x
12-07-2004, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Raceman
Actually there are different versions of the T3. Back then, if you weren't in a factory boat, you didn't get a Bendix. All the privateers ran carb T3's. They were basically 1750 production powerheads with plastic reeds, alum flywheels, tighter heads and locked timing on a 12" mid with an old Super Speedmaster like the T2 & T2X ran. (T2 of course had 5" longer driveshaft approx) I recall one of the guys who got a lot of factory help (Buck Thornton I believe, but wouldn't swear to it almost 30 years later) sayin' the new motor wasn't really any faster than his old one (T2X). Of course with familiarity/tuning/setup, all that changed. My first T3 had the exact same port timing as the production 1750 block that came in my std 76 model engine.

I agree with Buck... The original 1750 XS -T3 (carb version) was pretty pathetic and could not out run an updated later T2x....especially on top end...We had one of the first..if not THE first to play with. They got a little better over the first 18 months or so...and by 1988 or thereabouts we were playing with 6 carb manifolds and other exotic stuff. I got an early drag version from engineering that popped off the beach like a rocket......... but had absolutely no legs (top end)...... First boat to the first turn...last at the second.

T2x

T2x
12-07-2004, 01:02 PM
The name T-3 predated the 1750 version...and referred to the factory bendix protos I listed earlier.

T2x

Raceman
12-07-2004, 11:08 PM
By 1975 the T3 had the 1750XS stickers that had the little T3 on the rear of the stripe. I've seen the picture of the earlier cowl (74???) that simply had a BIG T3 on the side, but never saw one run. Obviously it was a Team only engine and only a handful at that. I saw the red striped one at the nationals in Miami in 1975. In about 76 or so (may've been 77) I started beggin' for a Bendix unit and was turned down flat. I even tried calling Bendix with no help. What Merc DID send me then was he six Tillotsen front half with the horizontal reeds. It made a BIG difference.

Lyder
12-08-2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by T2x
I agree with Buck... The original 1750 XS -T3 (carb version) was pretty pathetic and could not out run an updated later T2x....especially on top end...We had one of the first..if not THE first to play with. They got a little better over the first 18 months or so...and by 1988 or thereabouts we were playing with 6 carb manifolds and other exotic stuff. I got an early drag version from engineering that popped off the beach like a rocket......... but had absolutely no legs (top end)...... First boat to the first turn...last at the second.

T2x

Never had the chance to Dyno my T2x on the Miles Master,
however kept up with the MoliY's w/t3 (Tom Percival & Bob Spalding) on the straights if lucky, so it makes somewhat sence regarding the power comparison. (Run a Rolla 9 1/4 x16 on the T2x) Got the T3 the year later on the picklefork Moly, carb version since none factory team., milled heads, plastic reeds, lightened and balanced flyweel. :) :)

CRR
03-18-2005, 09:19 AM
#1 Today, 04:27 AM
worldchampuo
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Arlington,Tx
Posts: 119



Posts with my name signed to them?????

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey guys.....Let me start off by saying sorry for being so low profile lately..but have had too many hot irons in the fire....I was shown the following post tonight that shocked even me!!!!
"Get off the KIDS back, he can tune on a boat better then any one out there. if it was not for him I would not even have made a race all year. He busted his ass all year and whopped up on some seasoned veterains, he can talk all he wants. When your good your good. Marty"

W.T.F!!!!! I've done alot of bull$hit in my time.....I've told alot of tall tales, been the subject of a few taller tales, BUT, never in my life have I wrote something and signed someone elses name...That ain't cool.....And tonite is the first time in my life that I have ever seen this post, and much less written it...Let me (the real Marty} clear this up, the way I (the real Marty), sees it...One person on this planet is responsible for me (the real Marty), for winning four O.D.B.A. World and National Championships.....His name is Vic Peters, A.K.A. "Austin Coil".....I just pushed the buttons, and flipped the switches.....After he and HOC Motorsports parted ways, I never won another race, just like I never won one before he started tuning for me in 2000....Thank you Vic!!!!!! I never wrote this fukkin post, and find it VERY offensive that someone else would, and sign my name to it.....My good friend, David Berry, who is a little more credible than I, and in the same fraternity as me, might want to jump in and comment if I (the real Marty), put the letters AEKDB along with my comments.........Marty
__________________
4-time World Champ Unlimited Outboard 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003.

Bruce Washburn
03-23-2005, 07:51 AM
The T-3 stuff was a bit before my time but they also had some 2.4 t-3's with the 175 exhaust casting as early as 1978. I have also seen some EFI that dated 1980.
1750Xs motor which was the original 1980's version of SST120 evolved from stock 3 ring pistons to 1mm 2 ring TRW pistons by the early 80's. At the end of the 120 days these engines would produce well over 200 HP. A good 120 would run with a so-so first version SST140 oval port motor.
Thanks
Bruce