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View Full Version : Johnrude vs. Merc. vs. Yamaha



WillyT
05-11-2001, 08:32 AM
We always kid around (argue?) about which one is best. Would be interesting to hear how people came to favor one versus the other. Does it go back to your first experiences with outboards (childhood memories or whatever), is it the color, 90 degree vee versus 60 degree vee, etc. or is it simply based on your current belief that one is technically better than the others. I guess this is sort of like asking the old Ford vs Chevy question. Thought it might be interesting to see why we really feel the way we do. I may be a little older than most on this board, but when I was a kid, you bought a 6 cylinder inline Merc to go fast. The old fishermen bought the big/fat/heavy OMC 35 or 50 (though our first outboard big enough to ski with was a Johnson; my Dad liked it because it was white and the Mercs that year were a sort of creme color). That engine died one summer and ruined our fun for a while (bad memory there). I used to love the old Reggie Fountain racing tunnels and the old Powercat catamarans with the twin inline sixes on them. I guess I have liked the black engines ever since. Mercs' continued efforts to have a factory Hi-Performance Division has also kept my interest. Others?

MirageMark
05-11-2001, 08:55 AM
Growing up, my dad was a Merc man. He said the old Hurricanes were the best motors made. However, we bought a brand new bass boat and pretty new 175 merc. It was an awesome rig especially in my eyes, being that I was about 10 or 11 years old. That motor blew up one day at the lake for now apparent reason and nobody could diagnose the problem. In that same year we bought a new aluminum boat with a brand new 40 merc. Oh man, we had hell with that little motor. Lots of electrical problem. Needless to say, it fried more than once. So in the same year, we went through two mercs, and for a hardcore fisherman like my dad, that was the end of Mercury!! We changed over to a 200 Yamaha on the bassboat, and a 50 Yamaha on the aluminum boat. Those things are some bad motors. We fish hard and in alot of saltwater. The Yamahas are built tough and need very little up-keep. For fishing motors, they are relatively fast and very powerful compared to the old Mercurys!!!!

P.S. I do have a Mirage River Racer with a 2.5 260. Ha, Ha, Ha,,,,Dad says if Yamaha comes out with a High Performance motor, they will put Mercury out of business...Ha Ha Ha

Mark

Capt.Insane-o
05-11-2001, 10:48 AM
My grandfather gave me my first outboard, 1955 7.5 evinrude. After 2 cranks, rods, (no needle bearings in these) and a bunch of coils my ten year old ass had enough of that one. Next 1966 91/2 johnson, ran okay, but clamp bracket broke and motor fell off leaving me to row about 2 miles.next 85 horse 1972 evinrude. GAS PIG, jesus christ I think this thing got about 2 gallons to the mile on a 15 foot checkmate. Electric shift gearcase (electricity and water, hmmm.....) took a crap, parents had it fixed for my 14th birthday, left shore, piston fell apart. Dad gives me 1976 85 horse merc, WOW! Now were talkin! Ran it for 5 or six years, put a water pump in it, changed the plugs a couple times and that was all. It used very little gas, compared to the v-4 rude and never never failed to start or let me down. Next 1993-4 150 efi Merc. Bought it when I lived in Florida, drove it all over the state, not a whimper out of this motor ever, probably put close to 7000 miles on it that year, my neigbors Yammie 150 spent most of the summer in the shop.Next 1976 175 merc, Abuse is all this one gets, I can't beleive it still runs! I recently changed jobs and moved into an omc dealer ship, man, the older ones 1990 back are a pain in the ass, twice as many part as a merc. It seems the quality of the fasteners and the grade of aluminum "changed" with the financial well being of the company. And I have brand new omc's coming back now with melted wiring harnesses. I'm not saying Merc never made a dumpster catidate (all the 1970-1980's 3 cylinder 50- 70 hps. the "402" 40 horse plus a few others.) As far as Yammies, about 1/3 of the people I talk to love'em to death, the other 2/3'rds hate them, but that probably has to do with the local dealer around. (Can you say crook?) I do know they had a corrosion problem. When I lived in Fla I saw more that a few with holes right thru the center section and taking them apart was damn near impossible. So with my record I'll just stick with my merc's, but I have not been overly impressed by the quality control from Merc the past few years. WHooo blew some wind today! Old mercs 1950-1959 kick ass! They outran EVERYTHING back then and you'll have to pry my cherry mark 20h out of my dead cold hands!

Dewey
05-11-2001, 11:39 AM
My dad had a 140 merc I6 on an 18' tahiti when I was a kid. Ran good, pulled skiers all day long every weekend and never had any problems with it. His only complaint was that it wasn't a chevy v-8 ( which eventually replaced it). My best friends dad had the same motor on a 16' Avenger. Same deal. After my friends parents got divorced the Avenger sat for about 11 years on the side yard covered with weeds before I bought it for 500 bucks (my first boat). Complete resto on the hull, put plugs, new fuel tank with fresh gas, rewired it ( the insulation was brittle form being wd40ed for too many years) and it fired right up. Ran it for a year with no problems and sold it. Worked in a boat yard for about 5 years. Came to the conclusion that the Johnson's and Evinrudes were better for saltwater fishing boats and the Mercs were better for faster lighter freshwater boats. Yamahas... they are okay can't say good or bad about them.

Only Mercs for me.

Ron V
05-11-2001, 11:59 AM
I have not owned any of the Jap stuff, though I imagine the quality is probably very good. But I think they are all pretty good nowadays. I think that traditionally, you got an OMC if you wanted to fish and a Merc if you wanted to go fast. But as time went along, Mercs became more user friendly and OMC made some motors (at least regular production motors--let's leave race potential out of this one) that were very respectable performers. I remember the GT 150s and the 2.6s being the heros of the bass boat rage of the 80s. As for one blowing up easier than another, in everyday use, who knows. Probably a draw. I've never known a motor that was cared for properly to not hold up, except for a fluke which can happen to any motor. I never owned a Force, but I'd say they were the exception. Decent runners when they were right but probably just not as idiot proof. And let's face it, a lot of them wound up in the hands of first time boat owners.

I grew up in a family that was divided on the Merc and OMC debate. My uncle has been a certified OMC mechanic since the 60s and while my dad always liked OMCs for fishing motors, he was the one with the fast boats and liked Mercurys. So I was raised with Mercurys in mind. No way I'd own anything else. Then for my 9th birthday I got a brand new 1985 Johnson 2 hp from grandma, and to date it has never given me a problem. I will never get rid of it because it was a gift from her less than a year before she died. Have owned several other older OMC/Gale products for fishing motors and loved 'em all. Minimal problems and none that weren't freak problems or just due to age. I'm also in the antique/classic outboard hobby and can tell everyone that the first Mercs were nothing to write home about. We had a 1950 Merc Super 10 for about 10 years and while it always started and ran like a bat out of hell, it was the most miserable motor (to drive and run) we ever owned and that's why we sold it. I really don't know how Kiekhaefer survived in the early years--must have just simply been the awesome performance once you got them running and withstood the crudeness of them. All I can say is I would have trusted the stock powerhead to 7000+ rpm. Indestructible.

My disdain for OMCs in performance applications dissolved when I test drove my Rapid Craft with the 1995 Evinrude 90 on it. Doesn't do bad for a houseboat motor. And my dad was and still is amazed at how different the V-4s of today are from years past. He absolutely loves the motor even though he is a died in the wool Mercury fan. He says it "winds out more like a Mercury" rather than just being a low end torquer.

One thing my dad and uncle have both cussed about for years is how hard the Mercs (at least the older ones) were to work on compared to the OMCs. You couldn't get wrenches in and out of the nooks and crannies to save your life in some spots.

I think they are all pretty good now though, except for the DFIs, and nobody has those things right yet.

Can't say which motor I'd buy if I had to replace the V-4. Probably either a 150 Faststrike or a Merc XR6. Something with carburetors.

Jeff "Yammer"
05-11-2001, 12:46 PM
I chose to stick with the 2.6 Yamaha that came with
my 91 V-king when I bought it. After a year of
investigating and many new friends aquired along the
way {THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO HELPED} I chose to
stick it out and build a Yamaha that would be competitive
against the Dark-Side. To much abuse and critisism
along the way. I wanted to be different and be a
serious threat as well.
Granted..if I did not do the research I have there
would be a new 260-280 2.5 on my V-king as we speek.
The weight for some is a factor too , my hull is
balence to perfection to fly with the 45lb heavier
Yamaha on it. " I wonder what it would drive like
with a Merc on it ...............................
..................sorry about the pause I had to go
wash my own mouth out with soap after even thinking
such a horrible thought"

Any way Yes Mercury has a firm grip on the market in
Hi-Po boating with there off-the-shelf 280++ hp motors
but the average motors I think are all equilly good and
bad I think.

Maybe one day OMC and Yamaha will offer a Hi-Po
motor selection to the public........................
....Now that would be interesting.

Happy Flynnnnn to all brands of engine owners out there!!

Jeff.

Todd
05-11-2001, 12:51 PM
My first motor was a 1969 Mercury 9.8 hp. Remember why 9.8 vs 10 HP, no registration!. That engine on a 14' Barrantine aluminum boat was some of the best memories I have. We never had a trailer, always hauled it in the back of an old truck. The motor cost $300 brand new. I traded it in 1989 for a 30-06 deer rifle. The only repairs was 1 water pump and 2 pull ropes.

I've owned the following since: 20 hp mercury, 105 Chrysler (The great White Anchor), 70 Chrylser (Wasn't too bad), 85 Johnson, 115 johnson, 1996 Mercury 200 EFI, an 2 - 1988 2.4's.

From a resale perspective, the Chryslers died, the Johnson's sold ok, the Mercury's MOVED. Even with blown blocks, the parts were in demand.

I'm 100% mercury now. 1999 XR6 150 (fishing), 2000' 25 (duck hunting), and 2 - 2.5's on my Liberator.

Although I blew 4 2.4 powerheads last year, I know it was my fault.

SET THE WATER ON FIRE!

Firestarter
05-11-2001, 02:06 PM
That is the toughest question that could be asked.
I have had nore mercs than I care to count, three yamahas and a evilrude.
My Evilrude ran everyday, never so much as burped (though I think it should have with the amount fuel it consumed). But my Yamahas, now these were motors, I had a 70 that sipped gas, out performed the 115 evilrude that it replaced, but had a stator and a trim pump go. But Yamaha replaced them 2 years after I bought the motor. My last Yamaha was a 225 Excel, never has this thing coughed. I sold it to a friend, who sold it again--then bought it back 600 hours later and still ticking. This motor pushed a 18 charger over 80 mph at 6000 rpm and was run hard. No merc in history has ever made 600 hrs.
Which brings me to merc, the kings of engineared obselesance. They build junk!!!. The aluminum they use--junk, the bearings---junk, rods---junk, pistons-----JUNK, and their electronics well let me just say anyone want an
ECU for a drink holder (stators work well too.). But, they are the only way to go fast. Everytime I go to buy a merc peice I feel that I should see the doctor cus I was raped. (and I buy at cost).
Let me just say that thankfully they are easy to work on and parts are plentiful.
I would have no problem with a white/blue or grey motor on my boat, and with our friends at Bombardier in the game I for one hope that they keep merc honest.
I do love my merc though oddly, it is a well designed peice, that runs great it is just that the quality is not their. I have never blown up a merc or any motor for that matter, but I have a box full of warn out parts, most of which never made one year of age before they were delcared scrap. Sad really considering the cost.

My two cents.

RT

KG4
05-11-2001, 02:23 PM
I have always been a merc man but the truth is in the record books the world outboard speed record is held by Bob Wartinger 175mph with a johnrude v8.But i still am a merc man.

W. Tripp
05-11-2001, 08:27 PM
I started out with a WWII surplus Johnson - aircooled opposed 4 cylinder. I have had Merc inline sixes and V's. I loved a Second Effort 235 OMC I had, and was stolen. I am now running a Mercury.

To me, a manufacturer without a performance division and racing program is lacking the research and development that the racers will provide. Up to this point, it has been cheaper to produce a given power to weight ratio from a Merc V6 than from many others. But The prices Mercury is asking are changing that.

I believe that in the next few years, things will change greatly. As four strokes become more and more common, Many foriegn engines (remember OMC is now foriegn owned) will offer greater and greater appeal. But the manufacturers that sponsor and participate in racing programs will always get my dollar.

Yamaha 225
10-13-2004, 08:49 AM
Whn I am on the water,

I feel safe with Yamahas
I feel unsafe with OMC
I feel astonished, but not convinced with Hi-Perf Mercs
I feel like a fisher with Honda
I feel like a strang guy with Tohatsu
I feel like a wannabe with Suzuki


Yam is the best!

scfireman
10-13-2004, 09:00 AM
My 2 cents!

from a 90 hp and below I believe yamaha is the way to go. when you get to the v6's i believe Mercury has a strong motor. Not that there is anything wrong with the big Yamaha's, its just that there is so much more of a market for HI-PO parts for the merc's. I think alot of it has to do with what application you are using the motor for( i.e. off shore fishing, racing, lake fishing, etc.).

Flat Out
10-13-2004, 08:06 PM
We had Merc s when I was a kid. Towers of power ? They wouldn't pull a drunken sailor off your sister. In 78 my dad bought an Evinrude 140 S. Man talk about low end power this thing would lift an old 18 ft Arkansas Traveller right out of the water. I still have the motor with the original bill of sale from Tudhope Marine in Vermont.
Hade OMC s ever since 2,3,4, & 6 cly models.
I have a 9.9 Yamaha ran great but now dosen't want to idle without stalling. Had 2 Chyzllers a great 35 and a peice of s$%* 115.
Had 2 2l Merc s both good running motors.
Overall I'm an OMC guy. Great motors lots of power and pretty easy to live with.
I believe they are all pretty good nowdays. Exept them 4 pokes are too heavy.
I could go on but...........

montiboats24
10-13-2004, 08:24 PM
All my life i have run evirudes and johnsons but when i bought my checkmate that alredy had a 200 yamaha vmax i dont think i can ever switch back. the yamaha starts the first time everytime and is quieter and better on gas.

Ted Stryker
10-13-2004, 08:28 PM
Me and my family has owned them all ( yam,merc,omc), and never really had any problems with any of them.. We run them pretty hard but also take care of them... My opinion,,,, the Mercs are the fastest----- the Yamaha's are the most trouble free and reliable---- the OMC's fall somewhere in between... Our 80 hp yamaha would fire as soon as the starter engaged even in 25 degree ( fahrenheit) temperature's... Don't laugh, that's cold for Louisiana...Someone will de-bunk this for sure, but I have never ever heard of a lemon Yamaha and that eighty horse got astonishing fuel mileage...

Pro300x24LD
10-13-2004, 08:31 PM
My Uncle has worked for merc for prolly 20+ years....our 1984 115 was good for 10 years of family fun with a few small repairs...our 25 horse never gives a problem, our 4 horse starts first pull since 88 or so...my next boat will only have a merc/mariner

VectorPat
10-13-2004, 09:19 PM
My dad got me started with omc's when i was 10yrs old. we had a couple back then just on jon boats. I then worked at an OMC dealer for 10yrs and thought they were the best thing around. Then I went to work for a Yamaha dealer and saw the light. We then took on Mercury and for the most part we had good luck with them. Still had more problems than the Yamahas. I have always liked the 2.4 and 2.5 V6 merc. I think its a good motor. I now work for Yamaha and still own a Merc. Not by choice, I just happen to get it before getting the job and so far they havnt offered to give me a new one. I like the old merc because its a basic motor with lots of parts availability. If it were'nt for that I would surely have a Yamaha for reliability.

Corona Mike
10-13-2004, 10:29 PM
One of the guys on the board has the "perfect"motor.It started life as a jonrude but he added mad efi,midsection and cowling.Then he put yamaha ignition system on it.That wasn't enough he ported it like a merc.drag motor and adapted a merc sport-master to it.I'am not sure about the pistons/rods but the motor runs strong!Plus if he has a problem,he can go to and dealer for repair parts:D :D Sorry RRREVENRUDE,I had to ad the last paragraph. Did I mention this things SCREAMS!! Mike T.

Yamaha 225
10-14-2004, 06:57 AM
No doubt, OMCs are the engines that you have for a lifetime as a spare engine if the the Yammie need servicing

This is what I found in the basement in out summer house....

:rolleyes:

SKATER241
10-14-2004, 12:38 PM
MERCURY FOR PERFORMANCE AND YAMAHA FOR MY DAILY DRIVER.
I HAVE OWNED MOST DIFFERENT BRANDS EXCEPT FOR SOME OF THE ODD JAP STUFF.IT HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT THE WHITE MOTORS ARE NOT PERFORMANCE MOTORS UNLESS THEY ARE HIGHLY MODIFIED.MY YAMAHA PRO V 150 HAS BEEN THE MOST BULLET PROOF MOTOR I HAVE EVER OWNED AND FOR A BIG V-6 TROLLS LIKE A DREAM.THE ONLY MERC I WOULD NEVER OWN AGAIN(EXCEPT AS A BOAT ANCHOR)WAS A 225 LASER.I DONT KNOW ABOUT ALL OF THEM BUT THAT MOTOR WAS A PIECE OF CHIT!ATE PARTS LIKE NOTHING I HAVE SEEN BEFORE OR SINCE!

Markus
10-14-2004, 01:39 PM
VectorPat, what are you working with at Yamaha?

VectorPat
10-14-2004, 08:25 PM
Check your PMs

6balls
10-17-2004, 10:05 AM
My dad won a 13.5 ft Switzer w/115hp merc in 1972. Would not pull the proverbial drunken sailor off your sister. Boat was rated for 115, so we dropped a 140 'Rude w/115 numbers, and went 75 mph. Hole shot was soooo much better. Motor liked to run, fogged hard at idle no matter what we did.
Later had a 18 ft Switzer w/175 Rude, also good hole shot, and 75 mph. We became more serious skiers. Heavy oiling motor.
Next was a 20 foot Ski Centurion w/200 Yamaha--we saw the light. Torque, mid-range, and bulletproof. Ridiculous hole shot and accel on that boat.
Now have a 21 foot Ski Centurion Falcon Barefoot--had a Yam 225 Excel which was great, but when Yamaha went EFI got a 3.1 liter 225--holy **** torque, boys. Hole shot, mid-range, top end--ridiculous. Feels like 50 more hp than the "old" Yam 225, and still bullet proof. My brother has a 3.1 now on the Barefoot Warrior, and we turn a 27 pitch at 6000 R's--this is a heavy boat--can't say enough about this motor. With a 19p high 5, we pulled 8 200 lb guys out on slalom and to barefoot at 42 mph--this is scary.
What ever happened to Switzer?

ggarland
10-17-2004, 10:32 AM
Hello there:

Well, after making my living wrenching on marine engines for 28 years now, I want to give my two cents worth.

I will have to say that Yamaha is the first choice for reliability and ease of use, with Mercury second. The quality of Mercury products is not even close to the Yamaha since Mr K stopped putting his name on them in 1973, but before that they were the king of the lakes in every regard. Shame about it, but it is the case nowadays. Merc is still the king of go fast, but they have to get the quality up, especially in the smaller engines. The new Verado is interesting, but too heavy and overengineered. Very complex, and will be a nightmare to service as it ages and the electronics go bad. And they will go bad.

As for OMC, well what can you say? Some models are very, very good, but there are the others that should not be mentioned in mixed company. Bad language and all that. Touchy service, and parts may soon be an issue as they seem to have an uncertian future...... As for the rest, not even worth considering except for Hondas. Refined, but heavy and slow, pricey parts too. Good fishing engines. The rest have no decent service network so should not be touched, under any circumstances.

Well there is the view from here. Cheers Guys, good topic.


George :)

Dukeofchippewa
10-17-2004, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Capt.Insane-o
My grandfather gave me my first outboard, 1955 7.5 evinrude. After 2 cranks, rods, (no needle bearings in these) and a bunch of coils my ten year old ass had enough of that one. Next 1966 91/2 johnson, ran okay, but clamp bracket broke and motor fell off leaving me to row about 2 miles.next 85 horse 1972 evinrude. GAS PIG, jesus christ I think this thing got about 2 gallons to the mile on a 15 foot checkmate. Electric shift gearcase (electricity and water, hmmm.....) took a crap, parents had it fixed for my 14th birthday, left shore, piston fell apart. Dad gives me 1976 85 horse merc, WOW! Now were talkin! Ran it for 5 or six years, put a water pump in it, changed the plugs a couple times and that was all. It used very little gas, compared to the v-4 rude and never never failed to start or let me down. Next 1993-4 150 efi Merc. Bought it when I lived in Florida, drove it all over the state, not a whimper out of this motor ever, probably put close to 7000 miles on it that year, my neigbors Yammie 150 spent most of the summer in the shop.Next 1976 175 merc, Abuse is all this one gets, I can't beleive it still runs! I recently changed jobs and moved into an omc dealer ship, man, the older ones 1990 back are a pain in the ass, twice as many part as a merc. It seems the quality of the fasteners and the grade of aluminum "changed" with the financial well being of the company. And I have brand new omc's coming back now with melted wiring harnesses. I'm not saying Merc never made a dumpster catidate (all the 1970-1980's 3 cylinder 50- 70 hps. the "402" 40 horse plus a few others.) As far as Yammies, about 1/3 of the people I talk to love'em to death, the other 2/3'rds hate them, but that probably has to do with the local dealer around. (Can you say crook?) I do know they had a corrosion problem. When I lived in Fla I saw more that a few with holes right thru the center section and taking them apart was damn near impossible. So with my record I'll just stick with my merc's, but I have not been overly impressed by the quality control from Merc the past few years. WHooo blew some wind today! Old mercs 1950-1959 kick ass! They outran EVERYTHING back then and you'll have to pry my cherry mark 20h out of my dead cold hands!
hahaha, My 200 showed its tail to many 20hs,:D

Hot Shot Merc
10-17-2004, 08:54 PM
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hotshotmerc/boat4.jpg

Hot Shot Merc
10-17-2004, 08:55 PM
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hotshotmerc/mewithdad.jpg

Tango
10-17-2004, 09:39 PM
OMG!!! Love that old REDSTRIPE!

I remember my first boating when I was 5 years old sitting on my Dad's lap steering his 14 foot wood bateau that he built. You see, this was when we lived in Plaquemine, La. and everyone HAD to have a fast boat. I never even KNEW what an Evinrude was until we moved to Myrtle Beach years later.

I was five and driving the boat onto the trailer as Dad would back his 1967 Cougar GT up. That was 1973 I think. The next year, my Dad got a 90hp inline six and put it on the same boat. You have to see the complete humor in this... My Father and his entire family are from Pennsylvania. Dad went to Penn State and is an Engineer by trade. Back then he was developing interesting chemicals you die-hard racers use to cheat your fuels and oils with. Read: Proprylene Oxide... and many other mysterious oxygen and nitrogen bearing chemicals.

Well, being the Penn Yankee in the Cajun's Court he set out to build a better CoonA$$ boat. So he looked at many of the Bayou's best builders and took a little this and some of that. Each builder had a signature of sorts to his boat. A simple scroll of the wood here or a way of detailing this or that. He combined all the ways and would piss them off when they couldn't pinpoint who built the boat. Then really mess them up when he told him HE did it. The real trick was using laminates instead of plywoods that were much heavier and less rigid. Heck, I was 6 by then and learning a lot!

With the excuse of going fishing, we would race that boat up and down Bayou Pigeon, Sorrell and everywhere in between. One particular time I remember, I was driving the boat myself and Dad was getting the car... I was making high speed passes by the landing. There was another boat that was trying to pass me and I just was not going to let up... so I gunned it and walked away!! Six years old and my first drag race!! We passed a river barge that was throwing a wake and I stayed in the throttle claiming a victory when I saw the other guy let up. I went back to the landing and got a REAL A$$ Whoopin'!!

That Monday morning my Father was at work and the rumor was that his boss got it handed to him by some insane kid in a wood bateau. He was a Proud Father that day saying it was His Boy!

It was not until many years later that I learned that 90hp was a 150hp with a 90hp Cowling cover.

My second boat was a givaway that I won in a raffle. It was a 12ft side console aluminum boat with a 20hp Merc. It was SO SLOW!! My Dad had a friend who had a 20hp laying in his garage with a couple two-blade bronze props. I told him I would cut his grass all summer if I could have the engine and the props. He agreed!! I re-rigged the boat and put both 20's on the back. My Father said I was rediculous for doing it. Wonder where I got it from? I had to put the fuel tank in the front of the boat to keep it from getting wet and to balance it out. It ran a SICK and Scarey 45 mph!!

Now I am building a Vector with A decent amount of power... with Nitrous!