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Mark75H
11-29-2002, 11:17 PM
Who can name this lower unit EXACTLY? From this image tell us the year this was made, gear ratio, rotation and the motor it fits on.

When the guessing is finished I (or DaveS) will explain how you can tell all the details.

DaveS knows, so he can wait for the guesses before he tells us. Raceman may know, but might be short one detail.

Mark75H
11-29-2002, 11:23 PM
There are a few details that might be hard to make out on some monitors, I will answer questions about specific details that identify this unit.

Should I answer questions that don't help?
Should I tell whether or not a question is one of the critical identifiers?

hydro-cat
11-30-2002, 01:09 AM
Is that a screw in nose? Could it be a BP gear case? :) :confused: :)

Joe
11-30-2002, 10:51 AM
I know it is not a BP, as someone else guessed. It is a Speedmaster, not a Super Speermaster, although I do not know it's exact name. The shear pin hole is one giveaway.


Probably 1 to 1?

Joe

Mark75H
11-30-2002, 11:22 AM
1:1 pre-SUPER Speedmaster is correct so far. This unit was just called a "Speedmaster", so Joe is 100% correct on the name.
The shear pin is one of the critical identifiers.

How about the year, rotation and what motor it was made to fit?

wing nut
11-30-2002, 11:25 AM
just a guess.. im gonna say left hand rotation from a kc-13 (or sumthin like that)

am i close?? lol

scott

MagicFloat
11-30-2002, 02:27 PM
Looks like the one I put on my 1970 1350.

MagicFloat
11-30-2002, 02:46 PM
1963 Merc 1000?

MagicFloat
11-30-2002, 03:51 PM
Well, I thought I would cheat and use my Merc electronic parts catalog but it doesnt show pictures of older parts,only part #'s. If I was at the store I could find it in my really old paper parts book. So I have to give up or make another guess,60-61Merc 800 full gear shift.

Mark75H
11-30-2002, 05:00 PM
OMC made no racing equipment from 1941 until 1967. While Stephen Briggs controlled OMC this was the law. As Ralph Evinrude took over in the 60's things lightened up.

This lower unit is a Merc.

All of the older Merc Speedmasters and Super Speedmasters are 1:1, the 13:16 and 15:16 Super Speedmasters weren't made until the mid '70's.

If I tell Magic Float the 800 FGS didn't start until '61 and that it isn't exactly the right one, he will get it right by guessing the answer. The real answer is how you can tell it is that motor and not another similar motor made the same year.

OK can anyone tell me why it doesn't fit a 1963 1000 or a 1970 1350 and the rotation?

(Besides Magic Float and DaveS that is.)

Mark75H
11-30-2002, 05:20 PM
OK, I can't post any images right now, the server is misbehaving.

speedmasterkey

Ron Hill
11-30-2002, 05:52 PM
Well, the shear pin in the prop shaft dates it, I'd say back when we were fooling with Black Jack in Outboard Drags...Twin Merc 1000's on a flat bottom....Quicy third ported Black Jack's 1000 in '61. I'd say Merc 1000, 1961 ish!!! (There were rights and lefts but no three blade props...these were racing props...and god knows racing props don't have three blades!!!!)...

Mark75H
11-30-2002, 06:07 PM
Still can't post images, when I can I'll post a 100 hp Speedmaster next to this one so you can see the difference.

So, that means Ron is off a little, too, its not a 100 hp Speedmaster.

Joe
11-30-2002, 08:31 PM
Sam, question for you. You mentioned both 13-16, and 15-16 ratios. I never have never heard of a 15-16, but owned both 13-16, and 14-15 ratio Super Speedmasters with my TIIX's.

Was the 15-16 a misprint, or is my memory going away allready?

Joe

MN4V
11-30-2002, 08:57 PM
Was it ever used in the 90 ci class (UI Class) ?
MN

TRADER
11-30-2002, 11:14 PM
Sam,
I have one of these mounted on a Merc800DR. Mine is right hand with a 5/16 shear pin. Also has the top cowl with no recoil and the chrome MERCURY lettering. All White on a short housing. Along the way(?) it had a tiger transplant, and I assume it was a dealer replacement as it has no serial # on the top of the block. If this is the same unit, it comes with either right hand or left hand. Either 1/4 or 5/16 shear pin. 8 1/4" to 9" prop on a 5/8" shaft. My other Merc800 is a FGS, on the same style short housing.

Albert said to tell ya "hey babe", and that he and John got a lot of nice parts from Pete...trader;)

Mark75H
12-01-2002, 12:18 PM
Yeah, Joe you are right, that was a slip. 14:15 is correct, not 15:16

Trader's unit is a little different from the one in the image.

These were the original Speedmasters made in 1961 for the 1961 non-gear shift "Direct Reverse" Merc 800 and Merc 700. Merc made Full Gear Shift pleasure motors the same year, but these are for the non-shift motors.

The 80 hp unit has the same driveshaft splines as the 100 to 150 hp inline sixes, but the 70 hp Speedmaster has driveshaft splines to match a Merc 700DR with the smaller splines used in the 50's and on the 40 and 44ci fours. The next difference is the propshaft: the 80 hp uses the 5/16" shear pin and the 70 hp unit uses 1/4" shear pin. The 1/4" shear pin was a throw back to the Mark75H racing lower unit propshaft. All three (Mk75H, 70 and 80) use the 3/4" smooth shaft and the same propshaft gear.

Another difference on the 1961 Speedmasters was the water inlet. A left hand 1961 unit has the water inlet on the main housing near the skeg. A right hand 1961 unit has the water inlet on the main housing closer to the nosecone.

For the 1962-64 (100hp) Speedmaster, the top front of the housing was extended to bring the front mounting stud forward to match the 100hp (and other full gearshift) mid section. On the pleasure motors this was done to clear the shifter linkage; on the Speedmaster it was just done to match the mid section. Another change was the water inlet. On the 62 and later Speedmasters the water inlet is in the nosecone.

So, the Speedmaster in the first image has ... 5/16" shear pin, water inlet near the skeg and the top flange does not extend as far forward as the cavitation plate for the forward mounting stud location ... making it a 1961 left hand Merc 800 Speedmaster.

I'll post images to compare later today.

Merc 800's and 850's from this era were 76ci and fit in OPC "R" class. OI is a UIM class (1500cc-90ci) that wasn't used in US racing, but APBA could certify records for it as a UIM class. In the late 60's there were classes in OPC known as FI and SI, 89ci motors ran in them in all configurations of the era: standard lower units, gear shift X-115 and gearshift BP's in FI and Super Speedmasters in SI. I think by 1969, the X and BP lower units were kicked out of "F" classification to clarify the class as for fat gearshift lower units.

Mark75H
12-01-2002, 07:47 PM
Here is a white 80hp left hand and a black 1962-64 as seen from the top.

Notice the black unit has the bolt pattern for both types of mid section and the white 80 hp unit is too short to have the correct front stud location for the 1962 and later mid sections. If you find a 62-64 unit and want to use it on a 61 DR mid you will use the back hole ... but you must also shave the inside of the mid or the edges of the water pump housing. The 60's came with shaved water pump housings that fit. The discolored areas near the studs closest to the water pump shows the shaved areas.

Also note that the black unit is not a Super Speedmaster, the area immediately behind the upper bearing and oil seal area is open to the exhaust area.....there is no back drive shaft.

Mark75H
12-01-2002, 08:41 PM
Here are the bottoms of the same 2 units. The unit on the left is the Left Hand rotation 1961 type. The water inlets are on the main housing near the skeg. If this was a Right Hand unit, like Trader has, the water inlets would still be on the main housing, but would be close to the nose cone. The 1962-64 unit on the right has the water inlets thru the bottom of the nose cone like all newer Speedmaster types.

The different water inlet positions on the 1961 types is related to the propshaft gear location. On the left hand rotation units the propshaft gear is behind the driveshaft; on the right hand rotation units the propshaft gear is ahead of the driveshaft (farther to the front so the water inlet is moved up to stay in front of it). Different nose cone anchor parts were used. I have no idea why this was done. The later type makes more sense with the same water inlet location for both rotations, probably using the same nose cone anchors etc.

Mark75H
12-01-2002, 09:40 PM
Here is a 60 RH (we though was like Trader's, but he has a '62). The arrow points to the water inlets.

The owner of this Speedmaster needs two things.

That were correctly identified........a prop nut and a correct rotation prop.


We lost a few posts in the transition/renewal.

TRADER
12-03-2002, 06:52 PM
" Sam is a very knowledgable young man"... (Albert Snell)...

When Mercury started the FGS mid section housing in 1961 on the sixes, did they then carry this design on to the 1962 and later model's unchanged?

Case in point; On both of the Merc 800 units I have, they both have the same FGS mid section housings. Only one is equipted with a Speedmaster lower unit. Upon your posting the differences in the water pick-up points and the lengths of the housings above the cavation plate, I re-examinmed my Speedmaster, and it matches the Merc 1000 unit... Extended housing and water picked up in nose cone...

Is this the evolution of the Speedmaster's to match the evolution of the changes in the DR housings to the FGS housings?

I am not knowledgable at all concerning this issue, but here are the assumptions, I had prior to this post. The early 66 cu. in., DR housing, small spline shaft,left hand rotation (standard), used the first generation Speedmaster... water inlets near skeg...1/4 shear pin... Second generation, 76 cu.in.,DR housing, larger drive shaft, higher cooling demand, move water pick-up forward, use 5/16 shear pin for higher horsepower...Third generation, 76-89 cu.in., with the changeover to the new FGS housing, extend lower housing to match, move water pick-up forward yet further due to higher horsepower/cooling demands. As far as Prop rotation is concerned, it could be accomplished at the prop-shaft, by either placing the driven gear fore or aft of the drive gear. This would accomodate, where the boat controls are mounted to offset prop rotational torque, and twin motor installations. Now I have never seen the inside of one of these units, or even a parts list, but from a engineering standpoint, this is how I would look at the developement of this unit...

When Mercury used the Speedmaster on the 1000 and earlier sixes, was this a factory or dealer installed option.

Due to the ignition/starter/control differences between the DR and FGS, did the Merc 1000 use-carryover parts from the Merc800 DR, when using the Speedmaster. Would this then make the Speedmaster equipted Merc1000 a dock buster??? :rolleyes:

Alway's thinking out loud...trader

Mark75H
12-03-2002, 07:20 PM
To answer Trader's questions:

Basically yes, but I'm not sure how closely the 61 FGS form continued to 62 and beyond. For 62 and beyond the lower to mid pattern stays close enough to the same for all mids and lowers to bolt together......right up to the last 140's.

In answer to Trader's middle paragraph:

On January 1, 1960 all 4 original variations were released simultaneously, there was no evolution. Left hand and right hand were offered together mostly to be used together. The most popular high speed boats at that time were catamarans: Powercats, Stylecrafts, Magnolias etc. Most racing of motors over 40 cubic inches was all day marathon racing and outboards were second class boats in those races, even when they had 3 or 4 large engines they were usually beaten by inboards running in the same race.
The water pick up position is just a convienience thing on these....not particularly related to cooling demand. If you want my actual guess - I think it is inverse to Trader's guess. The "as sold" Mark75H racing lower unit has 2 small water inlets back by the skeg; earlier prototypes have it closer to the nosecone and higher on the side. My guess is that they thought the water inlets needed to be deeper in the water and farther from the boat to be sure of getting good water and in actual use it turned out that up in the nosecone, slightly higher and closer to the boat was OK.
Trader's guess on the mechanics of the rotations is exactly correct. Trader should head up to Arlington and ask Charlie Alexander---he did the work on these.

There is no literature that says you can get a Speedmaster installed by the factory, but I'm certain if your dealer ordered it from his distributer with one, the distributer probably shipped it that way after doing the work there. Back in the 1950's and early 1960's Merc distributors were not the warehouse depots the grew to be later, many were still regular retail dealers in addition to being the regional distributor. If someone can turn up a "Mercury Messenger" or other sales announcement from Merc that says you can get them from the factory, I'll gladly eat my words.

I do not know of anyone retrofitting Dockbuster linkage and starter to a 100 hp or larger powerhead, but it could be done. Even the last type inline six Super Speedmaster had a water pump housing that could be used with either motor rotation.

TRADER
12-03-2002, 07:51 PM
Sam,

So what you are saying is that the Merc 1000 equipted with Speedmaster lower units, were used in a direct/drive fashion? Forward only? If so how about the Merc800?

The unit I have, as I stated earlier, has a Tiger (89cu.in.) powerhead, with DR starter, and DR ignition, and MK75-78 style Quicksilver controls.

Another curiousity. When did Mercury start leaving model info off the I.D. plate? 1962? Only Serial#

trader

Mark75H
12-03-2002, 07:52 PM
Yes, Speedmaster equipped motors are normally run forward only.

Here is a little known fact:

When the first Mark75 was announced in 1956, Charlie Strang promised 3 lower unit variations: Standard "Fleetmaster", racing "Speedmaster" and an in between variation "Sportmaster".

The Fleetmaster promised speeds up to 60mph on tiny boats and the Speedmaster was promised for boats capable of over 80mph. For boats in the 60 to 80 mph range they intended to sell the Sportmaster.

The Sportmaster came in right and left hand rotation Dockbuster through prop exhaust versions. The water inlet was much like a Fleetmaster or Scott - - above and behind the prop. Unlike the Speedmaster it was marketed to be used with both long and short shaft motors. Rather than 4 different versions with 4 different driveshafts, the Sportmaster used a 2 piece driveshaft coupled just over the water pump. The gear ratio was 1.5:1 and the "R" dimension was 3.25 vs the Fleetmaster at 4.125 and the Speedmaster at 2.125.

The same 2 piece driveshaft arrangement had been used on preproduction prototype Speedmaster units labeled as test pieces for 80 hp motors.

The biggest surprise to me is the delay from announcement to sales of the Speedmaster and Sportmaster units. Maybe they thought boats weren't ready to go that fast. In any case, boats were never ready for the Sportmaster. They sold almost none and soon discontinued it. Maybe if it had looked like a giant Speedmaster it would have had better sales appeal.

Mark75H
12-03-2002, 08:00 PM
The main list

Mark75H
12-03-2002, 08:02 PM
Quite unassuming. Easily mistaken for a 50hp lower unit.

Maybe Eric can supply a better picture...

TRADER
12-03-2002, 08:23 PM
Sam,

Could you please post a part's list on the 100hp Speedmaster? I sure would appreciate...

ps: I slipped in a post between your's that you may have missed. Could you also address that also...thanks...trader

Ooopps.. I saw you beat me to it... Let me ask you this instead, do you feel it inadvisable to use this as a DR unit?

trader

Mark75H
12-03-2002, 08:26 PM
no

crazy horse
12-03-2002, 09:36 PM
Sam, How much differance is there from the early twin pinion to the late ones when it comes to the internal parts. One of the ssm's that I have is a early one with a twister driveshaft. How much stronger are the latter one's built ? Not including the MC-1 ,I have one of those and there alot heavier but there doesn't seem to be much differance in size of all the other ssm's ?

Raceman
12-03-2002, 09:41 PM
Crazy, what is a "Twister driveshaft"?

As far as the internals, I'm of the opinion that the internals are pretty much the same in the twin pinion SSM's, given the same rotation direction.

crazy horse
12-03-2002, 09:45 PM
Raceman, I'm not to sure but thats what Steckbauer said he stuck in it for a 15" center section.

Raceman
12-04-2002, 07:06 AM
I guess that would be a sensible description, since Merc apparently didn't install them on anything but the Twister series as far as anybody seems to know. I just never thought of it that way.

Mark75H
12-04-2002, 05:47 PM
OK, I found the Speedmaster parts lists and the immediate sucessor to the original 80hp. The next version (still DR type) is the same except they bored out the driveshaft bearing bore and dropped in a bigger diameter bearing; everything else stays the same. Wonder how many laps of Lake X it took to determine that was needed?

The parts list for Speedmaster that fits on the FGS mid eluded me for a while until I discovered they use the same images on the parts list as the DR 80 Speedmasters, but have a few lines marked "not as shown" ... the lazy bums. Of course, the FGS/100hp Speedmaster uses that larger driveshaft bearing, too.

Image in the next post.

Questions about the differences on the last Super Speedmasters are beyond me. Someone should ask Mr. Steckbauer why they left off the inspection port and if and why the last type is better. One thing you will find.....the last type SSM without the inspection port is likely to be in better shape because (1) they are newer (2) they have been running shorter races the whole time these have been out (3) don't know about this.....but......they might be better

Mark75H
12-05-2002, 08:30 AM
`

crazy horse
12-05-2002, 08:33 PM
Sam , Do you have a exploded view of the twin pinion Super Speedmaster ?

Mark75H
12-05-2002, 09:04 PM
Watch the other thread, it'll blow up good over there, real good, oh yeah.

crazy horse
12-05-2002, 09:13 PM
Will do, Sam. The right hand case view would be great.

ken kitson
12-11-2002, 10:52 PM
mercury had these on the old merc 85,s and as the hp got bigger we ran them on the new 1000 or100 hp.as you can see they had the cotter pines in case you hit something you would shear the pin .gee,we all knew that.as the hp got bigger merc designed the super speedmaster with atorsion bar [2 shafts] that would let you finish a race without twisting a shaft.to make a r/h or al/h they put the shafts in front of the gears or back of the gears to make it a l/h or r/h.later they maDE a bp [bad news]that had gears you could reverse to make overdrive or underdrive.hard to tell from the pictures but ,one of my old racings buddies ,jimmy parker made the parker housing with a lower profile on the engines and by cutting the shaft down helped by lowering the center of gravity down to help in the turns.am I right? Ken Kitson

Ron Hill
12-11-2002, 11:23 PM
Kenny, I didn't realize you were a friend of Jimmy Parker. But, when my dad cut the drive shafts, he threaded the shafts internally, then externally. Then he'd screw them together and "V" them were they met and then weld them, Then with his tool post grinder he'd grind the welds off. He made extra longs inot longs for years. Never broke one... I can't imagine the ours the Old Man would put into things like that. The external threads would be turned on his old South Bend lathe...

It is a bit IRONIC that boat races like Parker and Havasu had over 100 entries before the FACTORIES EVER got into it. Anybody want to talk about "Big Brother"?

Mark75H
12-12-2002, 06:12 AM
Yes, Ken you are right. Plus we can tell this is a lefty because the water inlet is close to the skeg.

I'll put pictures of Jim Parker's short tower on the Super Speedmaster thread; Bob Florian's "Bonneville" tower is on the thread about the Chyrslers......Christner made a short tower, too........do you remember any others?

OLEGATOR
01-18-2003, 11:32 PM
WHILE WE WERE RUNNING SI CLASS IN 68 THE SPEEDMASTER UNIT WAS NOT LEGAL. I THOUGHT 69 WAS WHEN APBA REMOVED THE BP FROM BOTH FAMILY & SPORT CLASS. IN 1960-61 I RAN ONE OF THE ORIGINAL 25,000 MILE RAVEAU BOATS WITH A MERC 700 AND SPORTMASTER UNIT. IN FACT, I STILL HAVE THE DRIVE SHAFT/COUPLER. THERE WAS A MERCURY DEALER IN KISSIMMEE, FL. WHO HAD A ALLISON FLAT BOTTOM WITH A MERC 800 DR WITH A MERC1000 POWERHEAD. WITH THE LINKAGE AND STARTER FROM THE 800 THIS WAS ESSENTIALLY A MERC 1000 DR.

Mark75H
01-19-2003, 12:08 AM
OLEGATOR, Merc seems to have released the 1960 Speedmaster and Sportmaster with little or no fanfare, dispite the fact that Strang had been promising them ever since the Mk75 was first introduced in the mid 50's.

Do you remember anything about when they were first announced?

Also I have seen a pre-production Speedmaster with a 2 piece driveshaft like a Sportmaster....it has an unusual exhaust outlet, sort of V shaped instead of like a box. The casting number suggests it was being tested for 80hp. Do you recall seeing any of them?

I think you are correct about the BPs being bumped into U or X in 1969. In 1968 weren't the X-115 and BP's both still allowed in SI and SJ?

I also think you are correct, regular non gearshift Speedmasters could not be used in SI, but I think they could have been used in "R" just before that time on 76ci Direct Reverse motors. ~ The SuperSpeedmaster announcement indicates you could adapt the SSM to the old 85's in 1965.

Pete DeLactner drums it into my head....R, S, T, U and X; the older simpler OPC class structure with the letters in alphabetic order.
R=restricted
S=single
T=twin
U=unlimited
X=everything else

You have to remember this is the guy that came up
with C.A.N.O.E California Arizona Nevada Outboard Enthusiasts

Ron Hill
01-19-2003, 10:33 AM
Sam:
Try to get Pete to post. He used to have somepretty good stories and he did have a good memory. ASk him how he happened to form C.A.N.O.E. I was a "Charter Member" and won "T" Class at Bullhead City. I remeber than. Maybe, it was the APBA OPC Club in SoCal. WOA was gone and COBRA was non APBA. Maybe, I answered my own question.

Does Pete email? Or is he too old?

Mark75H
01-19-2003, 01:32 PM
I don't think Pete has a computer yet, his son might.

Pete raced OPC in the southwest in the pretunnel hull days with boats he made himself called "Mustangs" They were much like Switzer Shooting Stars, but Pete gave credit for the hull design to Hickman, calling them Seasleds. I think he won single engine at Havasu in 1965 with one of the Mustangs. He still makes one once in a while as a custom one off thing. I think he builds what he tells himself will be the last one ever, just for himself and then ends up selling it.

Pete also had success with 35 hp Chryslers in Stock 36 runabout, winning the Nationals one year.

He's living in Anna, Texas these days selling cowboy stuff at the cowboy shows all over the country. If you've been to one of these shows and bought an Australian duster overcoat, you've met Pete without knowing it.

Ron Hill
01-19-2003, 03:53 PM
Pete was 36 Cubic Inch Class APBA NAtional Champion in 1964. Before the Chrysler was legal in this class it was an all Evinrude and Johnson Class. Dan Schwarzenbach pretty much dominated the class except for 1964 when he refused to runa CHRYSLER....or actually, the were called West Bends...I think. We called them West Benders...

Here's a picture of Pete in a Speedliner that he won the Nationals in..

Ron Hill
01-19-2003, 03:54 PM
This is a list of the TOP 5 in 36 cubic inch, Modesto, CALIFORNIA 1964....

Dave S
01-19-2003, 04:49 PM
G. Scudder would step up into FRR when I was racing in Connecticut and beat me. He knew how to make a left turn. Damn, that hurt but some one has to be last. It was fun anyway.:)

Ron Hill
01-19-2003, 08:15 PM
I never met the man. I did race 36 cubic inch several times. At the 1968 Winternationals I ran my BRAND NEW C/D DeSilva in 36 with a 2 X 8 for a transom raiser. I used aluminum angles to hold it on. I ran 4th and won $100. But I loaned it to Max McPeek and John Puestow to run FRR. The DeSilva Brothers were rally mad at me becasue they thought were were making fun of FRR. I lapped them in 4 laps. But they got 4th overall by finishing two heats.


I've got to finish my FRR stories one of these days. Ernie Dawe and I were the first EVER to race FRR in what was considered "Piggy Back" . We ran a 44 Cubic Incher on gas on my "D" Stock Runabout. I came up with the idea...and Dawe said he'd ride.. I rode once, but never did it again..

OLEGATOR
01-19-2003, 10:53 PM
MARK75H,
I THINK IT WAS MID 1960 WHEN MERCURY ANNOUNCED THE SPEEDMASTER, SPORTMASTER WOULD JOIN THE FLEETMASTER LOWER UNITS AVAILABLE FOR THE SIX CYLINDER ENGINES. I NEVER SAW A SPEEDMASTER WITH A COUPLER. I'M NOT SAYING THEY WERN'T OUT THERE JUST NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE ONE. IN 1968 THE GT115, X115 AND MERC1000BP WERE LEGAL IN FI AND SI. THE MERC1250BP WAS LEGAL IN FJ AND SJ. OMC DID NOT HAVE A GT OR X STYLE ENGINE FOR FJ OR SJ. THE R CLASS ALWAYS COULD RUN THE SPEEDMASTER. I MAY BE WRONG BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THE R CLASS UNTIL 70 OR 71. THE 76 CI ENGINES RAN IN FH AND SH CLASSES. I JUST DON'T REMEMBER ABOUT THE SPEEDMASTER IN THESE CLASSES. BACK TO THE DRIVE SHAFT COUPLERS; I THINK I HAD THE FIRST MERC1000BP RELEASED IN THE US, FOR SURE IN THE SOUTHEASTERN US AND IT HAD A COUPLER. I HOPE THIS HELPS WITH THE HISTORY OF THIS GREAT SPORT.

2us70
01-20-2003, 07:02 AM
I think that the speedmaster was legal in both
Family and Sport classes only on Direct Reverse Motors. This was because of the gear shift rule.
One of the fun things about this forum is trying to figure out w
ho everybody really is.

There were a few Allisons running in FH with sportmaster and I think Speedmaster units back in the late 60s. Herm Hageman may have been 1 of them.

Ron Hill
01-20-2003, 10:36 AM
That is true about the names. About the time I figure a name out I forget....That's why I just call myself "Ron Hill"....at least I can remember my name!!!

2us70
01-20-2003, 10:49 AM
I Bet I know olegator if I can just remember just who was running what back then.

mk30h
01-21-2003, 10:05 AM
Did the 35 hp WestBend used in 36 class have a racing lower unit or was it a pleasure unit racing prop? If I recall the standard lower unit on those engines was a lot more stream lined than the OMC blunt nosed beasts of the time. Was the merc 350 too slow or too few cubes or both?

Mark75H
01-21-2003, 04:58 PM
36 runabout was a gearshift lower unit class

If I recall correctly the Mercs came into 36 much later and they tried to convince them to roll 36 over to use the 35ss/402x Merc, but it didn't fly.

I don't know the details on why the first Merc 350 twins weren't raced in 36 runabout, probably too slow. There was a detailed discussion of that somewhere not too long ago.

mk30h
01-21-2003, 05:07 PM
Thanks Sam
The history of outboard rivlary is fascinating.
I's just not the same these days.

Ron Hill
01-21-2003, 10:03 PM
Sam:

Sometimes I wonder if I was in the middle of everything or if I caused everything.....When everyone was running Johnson and Evinrudes, Danny Schwarzenbach was to 36 what Al Stoker was to MOD VP. In an attempt to beat Danny, I ordered some props from Joe Mascari or Cary Propellers.... They ran well....but we got them just about the time the West Bend came in.

Yes, the West Bend had a small "Nose Cone" and once they started selling I ordered some new Cary props from Phil Rolla..the Cary props that came for the West Bend were called Records....
At the 1970 Stock Nationals at Beloit....there were only 10 -- 36 boats at the Nationals...when DSR, then next smallest, had 25....

James Kamorowski had a Merc 350...and everyone who had run one said they were slower than the West Bend.... But James came to Beloit and blew the doors off the West Bends...one problem he did not go to inspection. I never felt it was fair because the California Guys, Rod Zapf and Dan Schwarzenbach both had "Front Running" smooth water set ups and following another boat caused them to "Blow Out" which caused them to run third and fourth...after runnig in second...We dealt in 1/16 of an inch for engine height to keep from "Blowing Out"....I think John Finn ended up winning but two California guys were real unhappy with the Mercury from Wisconsin....

Side Bar: Rod is an Ex Navy Pilot and now retired TWA Captain. His oldest son, who raced Kneeldowns with my son, is NOW a TOP GUN for the US NAVY. Rod is also an Ex 5 Liter APBA National Champion...and I'm proud to admit that he introduced me to my bride of 33 years.....Rod haunts Debuc, Iowa in the summers.... He reads this but isn't computer "Smart" enough to post....

This is a list from the 1970 Beloit Program..... Same Stan Fitts who head up the APBA Historical Society...

Ron Hill
01-21-2003, 10:14 PM
I mentioned that my 1968 DeSilva runabout ran in 36 class at the Winternationals... Here is a shot of that boat in February 1968 when I was running for a five mile competion record in DSR. I was running no fin on the bottom..a bold move in'68. I broke the record but someone knocked a bouy down, later, and screwed up the course for records... Mohagony and yellow...

Ron Hill
01-21-2003, 10:20 PM
Here is an old picture of me at the 1968 Winternationals at Golden Shores, Arizona. 364 entries. Alky and Stocks. $125 cash per heat for first, $100 for second... paid five places. The Golden Valley Land Company paid in CASH plus they gave two lots away. Clark maloof of Quincy, Mass won one and I won the other.... The company was cash rich.. Discounts were given on lots... Lots were selling for $4,500...Then, our government decided that land should not be sold without water....Well, desert land doesn't have much water....

We had three Winternationals...About five years later APBA adopted the Winter nationals as an official race.... Our race....was the WINTERNATIONALS....

blackjack_jp151
09-22-2007, 03:25 PM
I believe those early single-pinion speedmasters were made for use on the Merc 700DR and Merc 800DR (direct reversing). Rules required that boats be capable of both forward and reverse. But that doesn't look like a DR water pump.

Mark75H
09-22-2007, 06:48 PM
Some of this thread isn't as readable as it could be, I guess. The Speedmaster in the original picture is a 1960 70hp Speedmaster left hand rotation ... the water inlet is close to the skeg, the front mounting stud is close to the driveshaft and the shear pin size is 1/4 inch. If it had been an 80 hp Speedmaster, the shear pin hole would have been 5/16.

In 1961 Merc made both DR motors and FGS motors, but the first year Speedmasters only bolt up correctly to the DR mid (the FGS mid's front stud hole is farther forward).

The normal DR water pump doesn't have the extended nose found on the Speedmaster water pump, so Jack is right ... it doesn't look exactly like a DR water pump. The extended nose is where the water enters the water pump. If there had been a picture that showed the Speedmaster water pump better, he would see that the main difference is that on a Speedmaster the water enters the pump directly from the lower unit housing via that extended nose section to the bottom of the water pump rather than via a copper tube coming into the top of the water pump behind the check valves - but that both have check valves.

The 1962 style Speedmasters bolt up to the FGS mids but still have the DR type Speedmaster water pump.

In 1961 there was an upgrade to the driveshaft bearing on the 80 hp version not done to 70 hp versions. In the long run this means that the 1/4 inch shear pin Speedmasters are the weakest of all and a poor choice for anything but an older lower hp inline 6, like a 60 or 70 hp. The driveshaft bearing upgrade was carried over to the FGS/100 hp style Speedmaster. If I've counted right this means 8 different part numbers for the single pinion Speedmasters. 70 hp left, 70 hp right, 80 hp left original, 80 hp right original, 80 hp left upgrade, 80 hp right upgrade and 1962 FGS/100 hp left and 62 FGS/100 hp right. There were only 5 different housings because the early 80's shared with their 70 hp rotation sisters and the 100 hp's were the same housing for left and right. Many thanks to DaveS for pointing out the many different variations.

Dave S
09-25-2007, 05:04 PM
Thanks Sam I was just trying to help ya with what I think I knew.:o I just want to help and pass on the history.:) Other wise it will be lost.

StocknMod
02-09-2008, 10:48 PM
Question, is that not a McCullough/Chrysler quickie? It does look like the old merc super, but something looks oddly like the old Mc/chry quickie I once had, for like 75hp to 115hp.

Mark75H
02-10-2008, 08:54 AM
No, it is a Merc. If you read through the whole thread you will learn about it and its close relatives.

The visual similarity/familiarity is probably the smooth prop shaft on this Merc unit and the 75/105/120/135 Chrysler unit (that most people call the 135 Chrysler unit, 'cause that was the last Chrysler to use it). Big difference between the shafts though ... this Merc is 3/4" , the Chrysler is 7/8", so props will not interchange.

Both the Mac and Chrysler are completely different from the Mercs and each other.

The Mac and Chrysler were both white, did not use exactly 1:1 gears, used fat, reduced diameter gears, had a thrust boss cast in, the exhaust exited above the cavitation plate, were slightly larger than a Speedmaster, may be co-winners of the butt-ugly racing lower unit award and were designed by the same guys; but after that they are completely different.

I guess I should be doing a separate thread on the Mac and a separate thread on the Chryslers to go thru all the variations of each of them, too.

smokin'joe
03-30-2008, 12:05 PM
...were first built to bolt onto production Merc 800 downhousings in 1960. The fat, short direct reversing, low geared Mark 75, 78 and Merc 800 gearcases gave the John-Rude 75 a good chance in NOA Pleasure Craft Racing, in fact until we (and also Paul Allison) got ahold of a Sportsmaster unit (geared between the club foot and 1/1, and some what thinner than an OMC 3 cyl. looper gearcase of later years), Johnson held the unlimnited record on a 14' Allison at about 57 mph. I held the 70-80 class record with the standard gearcase Merc 800 on a heavier 14' Allison at 51 mph, and upped it to nearly 57 mph with the Sportsmaster unit (and ran over 60 mph with the same motor on my 13' Allison in unlimited class, driving on my knees from the transom--Paul ran a similar rig at over 61 mph and set that record). My Dad had complained until he turned blue in the face about Kiekhaefer 6 cyl. gearcases, the new gearcases were the result of such feedback (the Speedmaster was disallowed in pleasure craft racing).



Who can name this lower unit EXACTLY? From this image tell us the year this was made, gear ratio, rotation and the motor it fits on.

When the guessing is finished I (or DaveS) will explain how you can tell all the details.

DaveS knows, so he can wait for the guesses before he tells us. Raceman may know, but might be short one detail.

Mark75H
03-30-2008, 12:51 PM
Joe, you are correct, 1960 is the first year the Speedmaster was legal. The first spec sheet I have showing them is dated Jan 1, 1960. I had the spec sheet and never looked at it. You made me go back and do thorough complete research to learn that date.

At the same time the left and right 800 Speedmasters came out, so did the one in this thread ... not an 800 but a 700. There were subtle differences between the two and that is what this thread is about. 80hp Speedmasters used 3/4" smooth propshaft with 5/16 shear pins, this one has a 1/4 hole, so it was for a 70hp.

Info on the Sportmaster lower unit is in this post: http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showpost.php?p=164561&postcount=24

smokin'joe
03-30-2008, 01:18 PM
Sam,

There were also both left and righthand rotation Mark 78 standard gearcases in 1958, we sold at least one.

Best,
Joe


Joe, you are correct, 1960 is the first year the Speedmaster was legal. The first spec sheet I have showing them is dated Jan 1, 1960. I had the spec sheet and never looked at it. You made me go back and do thorough complete research to learn that date.

At the same time the left and right 800 Speedmasters came out, so did the one in this thread ... not an 800 but a 700. There were subtle differences between the two and that is what this thread is about. 80hp Speedmasters used 3/4" smooth propshaft with 5/16 shear pins, this one has a 1/4 hole, so it was for a 70hp.

Info on the Sportmaster lower unit is in this post: http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showpost.php?p=164561&postcount=24



Link to the next Speedmaster version (http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24317)

Mark75H
03-30-2008, 01:44 PM
True, but I don't know how that relates to this???

smokin'joe
04-01-2008, 02:54 AM
Jim Hunt was my co-driver in 1979. Financed by Fred Schoellkopf (who became a fine driver in his own right in 1983) who co0drove with George Laycock. I set up both boats, my motor came from Ireland and Jost, Kenny Shaw (who won with similar boat) and bill muncie got the other two factory motors. In 1981 I drove the 4 hours alone, really loved it although the boat (Louis Collins' winning 1980 Laser) was no longer competitive because they changed the rules at the last minute under pressure from the Cal. crowd to permit beneath gerarcase water pickups. that allowed the tunnels, which previously had zero advantage, to run upwards of 100mph. We were stick at about 85mph.

jerry chichetti
04-24-2008, 12:21 PM
Hi 75H,.
That was a cool video. I was 13 years old in 1957 and my family had a Merc dealership in Seattle Wa. I ran lots of Merc 75's 78,s and all the other D R', AS THEY CAME ALONG. I had a pair of them on a 14' Powercat. It is fun to look back on the old days and realize just how much advance has been made in engines. I love my 20' ally w/the 280. Jerry

RBoso
04-07-2009, 03:39 PM
was it used on a marc 75 78 made in 1957 or so????????

Mark75H
04-07-2009, 04:13 PM
No, it does not fit towers made before 1960

AirRide
04-07-2009, 05:17 PM
First SpeedMaster made. Single shaft. Single pinion. Weak unit, thats why there's few left, and the reason the twin shaft, twin pinion was developed soon after. The driven gear(pinion) snaps right off the shaft. Its so weak, I would hesitate to even use it on a historical piece(motor).

Mark75H
04-07-2009, 05:55 PM
First SpeedMaster made. Single shaft. Single pinion. Weak unit, thats why there's few left, and the reason the twin shaft, twin pinion was developed soon after. The driven gear(pinion) snaps right off the shaft. Its so weak, I would hesitate to even use it on a historical piece(motor).

I have seen quite a few of them still in use and almost as many apart, and I have never seen one with a broken pinion gear as described. These work quite well as long as you don't run them with more than 100 horsepower. About 500 were made and a surprising number of them are still around.

The main failure is gear tooth wear

Link to the next Speedmaster version (http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?24317)

.
.

AirRide
04-09-2009, 09:31 AM
I have seen quite a few of them still in use and almost as many apart, and I have never seen one with a broken pinion gear as described. These work quite well as long as you don't run them with more than 100 horsepower. About 500 were made and a surprising number of them are still around.

The main failure is gear tooth wear

Link to the next Speedmaster version (http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24317)

.
.Broke plenty of them years ago. The driveshafts sheared right at the top of the pinion, the gearcases weak point. You know, in retrospect, your right...the horsepower was the straw that broke the camels back. lol:)

Mark75H
11-15-2009, 08:38 PM
If anyone who has a single pinion Speedmaster is interested in new gears ... there is an on going project that could yield gears as a side product

In order to produce the driveshaft gear, the guys involved would need to invest an additional $700 in tooling to produce the driveshaft gear. If we don't hear anything, these will not be produced.

These will be the real deal, but they will not be inexpensive.

yasser
02-01-2010, 12:58 PM
hi

I am looking for speedmaster spacer gaer
from where can i get it and who is made by?
thank you for early reply

john :cheers:

Mark75H
02-01-2010, 04:08 PM
hi

I am looking for speedmaster spacer gaer
from where can i get it and who is made by?
thank you for early reply

john :cheers:

Not sure what part you are asking about ... are you asking about shim material?

Dave S
02-01-2010, 05:20 PM
Sam the gears that are being made Could be expanded into SM and SSM gears as the tooling needed is there for the DS gear as the 75H prop has the same splines as the SM DriveShaft. Diff tapper.;)

Mark75H
02-01-2010, 05:30 PM
At the cost of $700+ for the SM broach ... you gotta pay to play. As yet there is no interest in the SM gears

Both comments belong on another thread

Dave S
02-01-2010, 07:01 PM
Read......SM the same as 75H Broach PS the splines on DS.:rolleyes:

Mark75H
02-01-2010, 07:33 PM
Not on the pinion shaft ... You of all people know the 75H driveshaft splines are the same as the Mk55H, not the SM

Its the prop shafts that are the same

Dave S
02-01-2010, 07:40 PM
Me of all fools Know that they are buying a broach to do the splines of the 75H prop shaft.... the same as SM and SSM driveshaft.:eek: Just giving ya a hard time.:p It's winter and tired of shoving snow.:cheers:

smokin'joe
03-25-2010, 04:40 AM
This is not quite correct! In 1960 the regular OMC 75 had a high geared speedmaster-like shifting gearcase. They were faster than the Merc 800 with standard club foot, but not as fast as the Merc 800 with (2:3 geared) Sportsmaster gearcase. Anyone have a photo of the Sportsmaster? It was smaller than the 1975 OMC 75 'Nitro' gearcase used in EP/SE.
So 1960, from my experience in NOA, was the year that OMC reentered racing (also, don't forget Ralph Evinrude and Starflite I). I can tell you that, at the fall,1959 time trials at Three Rivers Boat Dock, there was nearly nothing present but a host of Johnson 75s on 13', 14' wooden Allisons. One upped the unlimited record to 56.5 mph, a speed unheard of at that time. It took us a year and the Sportsmaster gearcase for us to break 61 mph with the Merc 800 in NOA time trials.




OMC made no racing equipment from 1941 until 1967. While Stephen Briggs controlled OMC this was the law. As Ralph Evinrude took over in the 60's things lightened up.

This lower unit is a Merc.

All of the older Merc Speedmasters and Super Speedmasters are 1:1, the 13:16 and 15:16 Super Speedmasters weren't made until the mid '70's.

If I tell Magic Float the 800 FGS didn't start until '61 and that it isn't exactly the right one, he will get it right by guessing the answer. The real answer is how you can tell it is that motor and not another similar motor made the same year.

OK can anyone tell me why it doesn't fit a 1963 1000 or a 1970 1350 and the rotation?

(Besides Magic Float and DaveS that is.)

smokin'joe
03-25-2010, 04:48 AM
Strang may have promised it in 1956 but they sat on their royal butts while first Scott (1958-'59) and then OMC (1960) gave Mercury fits in NOA. Both had smaller, higher geared gearcases. My dad begged and begged Oshkosh for the Sportsmaster, complaining about the huge 2:1 club foot, and they finally sent us a Sportsmaster with two props, 17" and 19" pitch, in Aug., 1960. After that, we really took off. Probably, it was Kiekhaefer sitting on his royal butt. I don't know how many Sportsmasters were made. We and Paul Allison (a Johnson man in 1960) had one at the Oct., 1960 NOA time trials, and we put them to good use.




Yes, Speedmaster equipped motors are normally run forward only.

Here is a little known fact:

When the first Mark75 was announced in 1956, Charlie Strang promised 3 lower unit variations: Standard "Fleetmaster", racing "Speedmaster" and an in between variation "Sportmaster".

The Fleetmaster promised speeds up to 60mph on tiny boats and the Speedmaster was promised for boats capable of over 80mph. For boats in the 60 to 80 mph range they intended to sell the Sportmaster.

The Sportmaster came in right and left hand rotation Dockbuster through prop exhaust versions. The water inlet was much like a Fleetmaster or Scott - - above and behind the prop. Unlike the Speedmaster it was marketed to be used with both long and short shaft motors. Rather than 4 different versions with 4 different driveshafts, the Sportmaster used a 2 piece driveshaft coupled just over the water pump. The gear ratio was 1.5:1 and the "R" dimension was 3.25 vs the Fleetmaster at 4.125 and the Speedmaster at 2.125.

The same 2 piece driveshaft arrangement had been used on preproduction prototype Speedmaster units labeled as test pieces for 80 hp motors.

The biggest surprise to me is the delay from announcement to sales of the Speedmaster and Sportmaster units. Maybe they thought boats weren't ready to go that fast. In any case, boats were never ready for the Sportmaster. They sold almost none and soon discontinued it. Maybe if it had looked like a giant Speedmaster it would have had better sales appeal.

smokin'joe
03-25-2010, 04:50 AM
Yep, that's it! And I used one to break 61 mph in Oct., 1960. Paul allison, my dad and I were the first in (NOA) OPC to break 60 mph. All with that gearcase.

By the way-we ran it on the boat shown in my photo, the 13' Allison with two Mark 58As. I ran kneel-down with my butt against the transom. Boat ran up to 55 mph, lifted, and on the way to 61 mph shimmied like crazy-no bungee tie-down on the downhousing. I was 17, my dad wouldn't let me run the boat before the time trials!


Quite unassuming. Easily mistaken for a 50hp lower unit.

Maybe Eric can supply a better picture...

Mark75H
03-25-2010, 07:08 AM
The Sportmaster bullet is 3 1/4" ... I don't think it is smaller than the Nitro or the other cases:

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210654

1960 OMC's may have briefly been competitive, but they were by no means fast, nor a "racing" case. OMC was still run by Briggs in the early '60's. Those boats & motors you mentioned were personally paid for by Ralph Evinrude outside of the factory ... Ralph was interested in racing, but as a company, OMC was not. OMC stayed out of racing until 1967

The Sportmaster gear ratio & bullet size were not legal in NOA in 1960 ... are you 100% certain about the year?

smokin'joe
03-25-2010, 08:13 AM
I can tell you from personal experience that the 1960 OMC 75 would run. And, as soon as we got the Sportsmaster gearcase in Aug., 1960, it was approved by NOA (i.e., by Claude Fox). Mercury had sent them a bulletin stating the specs.

smokin'joe
03-25-2010, 02:19 PM
Here's the standard 1960 OMC 75 gearcase. We had to run against that with a club foot before the Sportsmaster gearcase!





The Sportmaster bullet is 3 1/4" ... I don't think it is smaller than the Nitro or the other cases:

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210654

1960 OMC's may have briefly been competitive, but they were by no means fast, nor a "racing" case. OMC was still run by Briggs in the early '60's. Those boats & motors you mentioned were personally paid for by Ralph Evinrude outside of the factory ... Ralph was interested in racing, but as a company, OMC was not. OMC stayed out of racing until 1967

The Sportmaster gear ratio & bullet size were not legal in NOA in 1960 ... are you 100% certain about the year?

Mark75H
03-25-2010, 03:52 PM
I remembered what that looked like. No one in my area could figure out how to get one over 35 mph. They must have been pretty tricky to get right.


Here's the copy of the ad from Hunn's book. I am clueless where it came from, I haven't come across it in any magazines I have from that time frame. Maybe its in an issue of NOA's Roostertails that I do not have, or maybe its a stock blank that was sent out to dealers for local use.

The WOA ad was a few years later and is in Yachting, Motorboating and others.

Like Joe says, WOA was a west coast/Arizona organization and NOA was heavier in the southeast ... NASCAR's old homeland.

smokin'joe
03-25-2010, 04:42 PM
Are you confusing the 1960 75 with the 1958 Fat 50? The latter wouldn't do 35 mph unless you pulled it, the 75 would run nearly 50 mph on a Crosby-like runabout, was faster than a Mark 78.

Here's a picture of that disgraceful excuse of a motor. Same gearcase as the 1954 Johnson 25, just (like the rest of it) fatter.



I remembered what that looked like. No one in my area could figure out how to get one over 35 mph. They must have been pretty tricky to get right.


Here's the copy of the ad from Hunn's book. I am clueless where it came from, I haven't come across it in any magazines I have from that time frame. Maybe its in an issue of NOA's Roostertails that I do not have, or maybe its a stock blank that was sent out to dealers for local use.

The WOA ad was a few years later and is in Yachting, Motorboating and others.

Like Joe says, WOA was a west coast/Arizona organization and NOA was heavier in the southeast ... NASCAR's old homeland.

Mark75H
03-25-2010, 04:58 PM
No, there were practically no fat 50's in our area. I was always impressed by the looks of the 75's.

smokin'joe
03-25-2010, 05:09 PM
Was easy to bust 50 mph with an OMC 75 on a fast boat, was pretty hard to do that with a Mark 78, and was impossible with a Scott 60 unless it was juiced up by someone who knew what he was doing-like McCulloch Corp.
And, the 52 mph 13' Rose was the fishing version, probably didn't weigh 150 lb. That was basically the same boat bottom that ran 50 mph with the Merc 500, after molded by Allison in 1961 (and the Merc 700 wasn't much faster).



No, there were practically no fat 50's in our area. I was always impressed by the looks of the 75's.

Mark75H
03-25-2010, 05:20 PM
We found the limiting factor on the McCulloch's to be props. The motors had the stuff and the lower unit was OK, but props for them just weren't there.

smokin'joe
03-25-2010, 05:31 PM
Well, I think you could say the same about all the stock props of that era, including those for Mercury and OMC. I tried to repitch a bronze Merc 500 prop last fall, could not really do it right. Those props had a profile like an airfoil, so leading edge pitch is hard to set because they were inherently cambered wrong on the suction side. We couldn't run more than 61 mph with a Merc 800/Sportsmaster on the 13' Allison in 1960 precisely because we were prop-limited. Modern surfacing props have a relatively flat suction side (if you imagine hammering out the camber), so it's easy to set the pitch at the leading edge using a gauge that reads pitch 3/4-1" chords, like the Rundquist gauge. I remember having an OJ racing prop for my standard gearcase Mark 30, that blade profile wasn't any better.

Now that I've said that, how did a Merc 500 run 50 mph in 1961-? Actually, i don't know what props they had in '61, I quit in 1960.

Mark75H
03-25-2010, 06:00 PM
Merc and Michigan sold 17's for them (48-32176-A1 and AJC484). 1.64 gear ratio, 8% slip= 54 mph @5,500 rpm

smokin'joe
03-26-2010, 02:33 AM
Merc and Michigan sold 17's for them (48-32176-A1 and AJC484). 1.64 gear ratio, 8% slip= 54 mph @5,500 rpm

Scott 75 with which gearcase? I don't have numbers on Scotts. By the way, if you know the c.i. displ. and gear ratio of the 1959 25, I'd appreciate knowing it. Thanks.

Mark75H
03-26-2010, 07:19 AM
The 1959 25 hp Scott is 30ci.

Plenty of slow props for the std McCulloch gearcase ... the fastest prop we had could only go 50 or so and the motor was seriously over revving on our little Glastron (or maybe it was a cheesy Sportcraft copy of a Glastron). We never ran a 75 Custom on the same boat, but the props we had for the Custom units went well into the 50's without over revving the motor. We only found the one prop for the Custom and I think Michigan only made 2, one for single engines and one for twins.

smokin'joe
03-26-2010, 07:47 AM
The 1959 25 hp Scott is 30ci.

Plenty of slow props for the std McCulloch gearcase ... the fastest prop we had could only go 50 or so and the motor was seriously over revving on our little Glastron (or maybe it was a cheesy Sportcraft copy of a Glastron). We never ran a 75 Custom on the same boat, but the props we had for the Custom units went well into the 50's without over revving the motor. We only found the one prop for the Custom and I think Michigan only made 2, one for single engines and one for twins.

How many RPM? What's upper safe RPM with 25:1 oil?

Mark75H
03-26-2010, 07:52 AM
I don't know much about that motor, its bore and stroke are not common to its sisters in the line up. Probably 5500 rpm, most were big bores

smokin'joe
04-19-2010, 01:40 PM
Quite unassuming. Easily mistaken for a 50hp lower unit.

Maybe Eric can supply a better picture...

Can I get permission to use the picture of the Sportsmaster gearcase in an
AOMCI article?

smokin'joe
04-19-2010, 01:46 PM
Joe, you are correct, 1960 is the first year the Speedmaster was legal. The first spec sheet I have showing them is dated Jan 1, 1960. I had the spec sheet and never looked at it. You made me go back and do thorough complete research to learn that date.

At the same time the left and right 800 Speedmasters came out, so did the one in this thread ... not an 800 but a 700. There were subtle differences between the two and that is what this thread is about. 80hp Speedmasters used 3/4" smooth propshaft with 5/16 shear pins, this one has a 1/4 hole, so it was for a 70hp.

Info on the Sportmaster lower unit is in this post: http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showpost.php?p=164561&postcount=24


We got 1 or 2 Sprtsmasters, either McCall's Marine or Blake Cox may have gotten another because Paul Allison did not own the one that he drove in the 1960 NOA time trials. For the time trials Paul'd swapped his fat 75 for Blake's Merc 800, and ran an Allison that had McCall's Marine written on it, I think. McCall was a Knoxville Mercury dealer. To be honest, I don't know if more than those 2-3 Sportsmasters were produced. Anyone have any info?

smokin'joe
04-19-2010, 01:47 PM
Yep, I Thought That Was Us.


Jim. Your photo-you've changed! You were wearing an Evinrude cap in '79.

Mark75H
04-19-2010, 02:13 PM
To be honest, I don't know if more than those 2-3 Sportsmasters were produced. Anyone have any info?

I've seen about a dozen, but I've heard from a reliable source, that the number was not hundreds. Certainly more than 2 or 3. Probably at least 50 or 100. It was intended to be a production item like the Speedmaster.

You may use my pictures, please credit the one without paint to Rick Connolly

smokin'joe
04-25-2010, 11:41 PM
Now I remember seeing one at a Mercury dealer near New Haven, Conn., in 1965. And, NOA must have had many Sportsmaster units running in 1961.

First time I saw a Speedmaster unit was outside New Haven in '65, had gone there to grad school. A young black guy had stopped by the road with a Powercat, I think, and two Speedmasters. Had been on the river to test.