F4 not F1

[Bloodfist]

Has any one checked out or heard the new news on the 60hp EFI 15" mid Formula Race Mercury outboard? It's funny..a month ago I had a dream where I had twin 35hp 4 stroke EFI outboards on the back of my 13 footer. It'd be quite ironic and bizzare if they actually came out again..

Hey, if any one knows any thing else about these 60hp's let us know. I hope they are available for consumer purchase as well!

[Bloodfist]

Damn...nevermind.

[Ronster43]

I know a little about it...can connect you with the right people to find-out details. It would theoretically replace SST60 at some point in the future as they are running out of equipment. The plan is to package a newly designed specific boat with the motor...sort of a spec class. The motor is heavier and less powerful than the SST60 and requires a different hull to work properly. Boat builders are being solicited to submit designs. I am interested in the class myself, but am skeptical for all of the usual reasons for which the sport is in trouble in the first place...cost, time, lack of interest.

Ron

[Bruce Washburn]

The concept is to have a one design starter class that you could buy turn key ready to go and not have to rebuild for a long time. Mercury would be putting the class together. They have several boats in Europe with the package and had one of those boats at the APBA National meeting in Detroit earlier this year. The prototype ran right at 70 set up to go around the course.
They will need to have a US MFG to make the rig affordable. The european boat had a bunch of carbon fiber in it and with the weak dollar would be out of reach for most people wanting to get started.

I do not see this as replacement for SST60 until the last 3 cylinder 60 block is destroyed. The new package will be much more expensive than a competittive 60 and will be 10+ MPH slower than the 60

The hope is to have F4 on the water in 2009. F4 could be a great starter class for people to learn how to race a tunnel.

[Fish]

I hope I am not opening a kettle of fish here, but why not make the motor as a sst60 competitive motor so the existing racers and more budget minded could still run? I know parts are getting scarce and it is sounding the bell on sst60, but it would seem to make more sense to breathe new life in to an existing successful class with available hulls. More people could enter on the older equipment and work their way towards the newer stuff. Availability of powerrheads is not the only threat to the future of racing, price is too and if history tells us anyting about pricing, F4 will not be the new racer draw sst60 is simply due to the economics IMHO.

fish

[Mark75H]

Insider boat racing circles continually claim it is availability and not price that stops newcomers; this is based on two things. First, membership stats during times when new motors were available vs times when equipment was not available. Second, hearsay from people who say they are potential racers but then never buy equipment and race because they claim the scavenger hunt to build a good rig is too much work.

The only way to prove or disprove the availability issue is to make rigs fully available and see what happens. (Some kneeldown clubs will be doing the same thing to test the availability theory. New hydros with ready to race Yamatos will be dragged to certain races in hopes of selling them to newbies.)


I think the original target price for the Formula Merc rig was $16,000 ... adjust for inflation ... better have $20k on hand in 2009 and 2010 if you are serious. ($6k will be more than enough if you are interested in a C Stock Hydro to go 70-ish.)

Upside is that if they build 12 or 18 Formula Merc rigs and some don't sell - there may be some kind of "lease plan" where newbies can try OPC racing without committing big cash.

The F4 Merc motors will not be available separate from the race package

If the scavenger hunt was too much work ... these people will never run anywhere but the back anyway

[Fish]

Well I guess only time will tell, but I know of at least one person who has been watching almost every boat that has come up for sale in sst60 and supersport for a while and price is a consideration; not the only one, but probably the biggest.

Should be a neat class to watch anyway, I hope it does well.:thumbsup:

[Ronster43]

I think everyone is correct here. Lots of pieces to the puzzle. The other major consideration is time. I can afford the cost of entry, but I can't afford the time. It wasn't easy back when there were lots of local races. F4 would have to be embraced by a series to be really successful, and I, like many, can't make that committment. Not to mention travel expenses. But...I'm a V-bottom guy, so what do I know??

[Bruce Washburn]

RE: SST60
There are still parts available from several different sources. SST 60 is a lot of bang for the $. It has good local support and a great series (APR) to run in. It is far from being dead. F4 is not designed to be a replacement for this class. The 4 stroke 60 motor is a neat package on a short mid section but is no match for the current SST60 motor. A good 60 will probably produce over 90 hp and weighs more than 50 pounds less than the 4 stroke 60 engine. (50 lbs. is a bunch in a small tunnel) There will be about 10-15 MPH difference in the boats and the SST 60 will out punch it out of the corners. That being said we need to all realize that eventually we will probably be racing 4 strokes. Think what a full race 4 stroke that would be competitive with a good 2.5 would cost.
Fish if your buddy is looking for an SST60 there are several very competitive turn key boats that are for sale in the state of Florida. One that comes to mind is like new and a front runner with the best of everything that could be had ready to go for less than 10 K. If your friend is interested PM me and I will send you the information. We would love to see the boat stay in Florida and have another racer in Region 5.
Thanks
Bruce

[Three_Banger_Omc]

after being around sst 60 for a few years now i personally think that this idea of F4 will never fly. For one if you want to go slower then sst 60 might as well hopp in a 45 rather then a 4 stroke 60. In order to get this class going a bunch of people are going to have to love four strokes and a slower class. Why not work on something to compete with the sst 60s rather than introduce another class which will either take numbers away from sst 60 or prevent newcomers to an already established class. Why not work on the classes we already have then bring new stuff in?

[Mark75H]

after being around sst 60 for a few years now i personally think that this idea of F4 will never fly. For one if you want to go slower then sst 60 might as well hopp in a 45 rather then a 4 stroke 60. In order to get this class going a bunch of people are going to have to love four strokes and a slower class. Why not work on something to compete with the sst 60s rather than introduce another class which will either take numbers away from sst 60 or prevent newcomers to an already established class. Why not work on the classes we already have then bring new stuff in?

Because there is this big theory that people stay away because of the scavenger hunt required to set up a new rig in 45 and 60. We have to try F4 to prove this theory right or wrong - then we can proceed which ever way the results lead us.

[Three_Banger_Omc]

i understand that but what im trying to say adding new classes is stupid why not introduce an engine that can race with the sst 60s then you can prove to everyone that these new ones are better. Why kill the sst 60 class or 45 class doesnt make sense. And again a single engine manufacturing class is stupid.

[Riverman]

And again a single engine manufacturing class is stupid.I agree. And if BRP stepped up with a 15" 60 ETEC Merc would pull the pin in a heartbeat. Any sanctioning organization that says "must be Merc 60 hp 4-stroke" would be just like the AMA when they kept changing rules until nothing but a Harley 750 V-twin was allowed in flat track.

[Mark75H]

Pretty much because there is no current motor that can be made to fit. An Etec 75 weighs 150 pounds more than a SST60, etc.

If there is going to be a new motor, its pretty well stuck having its own boat & class.

Even when a class starts out with several engine choices, it is never long before one engine dominates. To be fair to the widest number of racers and potential racers ... single manufacturer classes work best.