STV type hulls vs. vee

[CLIMATEMASTER]

Can a STV type hull get a hook like a vee hull? My partner and I have an Allison but have always wanted a tunnel hull as well. I am looking at the Rapid Craft Riot's on the "for sale forum". No wood sounds good. Comments, recomendations, help. I like fast but I really want stability at speed. Thanks

[pyro]

When you say, "get a hook" what do you mean?

Usually, "getting" a hook is like when somebody sits a nice Ally on a crappy roller trailer and the bottom gets all deformed.

"Hooking" is a violent turn resulting from a nice Ally blowing out, or getting off the throttle a bit too quick.

Drive, or at least ride, in any style of hull you consider buying, before buying, to get a feel for some different hulls. Tunnels such as the Riot are good performers, but they might introduce you to some new terms like "kite", "spray" and "poke." They deserve a certain level of respect from the operator...

[CLIMATEMASTER]

A problem with some vee hull boats. Basically a warped pad that throws the front end out of alignment to compare to a car. The boat no matter what you do to the torque tab makes the boat pull to one side and become unstable at high speed. The last tunnel I rode in had a 280efi and ran 127 radar with two people in the boat, very stable at 90 over 25' center console boat wakes.

[RBT]

127 with a 280 I would to see!
The Riot is a blowover waiting to happen, and the no wood thing is a marketing stunt. The best boats in the world are built with wood.

RT

[rpm racing]

The last tunnel I rode in had a 280efi and ran 127 with two people in the boat, very stable at 90 over 25' center console boat wakes.

Come on, i could not see a 280 running ANY boat over 120, maybe more like 117 in a STV, and if the boat you went in was anything other than a STV I would be surprised to see much over 110.

[RUDERIOT]

127 with a 280 I would to see!
The Riot is a blowover waiting to happen, and the no wood thing is a marketing stunt. The best boats in the world are built with wood.



RT

Yep thats right. Not having stupid wood stringers ,bulkheads, dash & transom to rot out is just a marketing stunt:confused: . Who wouldn't want the wood in thier hulls to rot? :cool:

[RUDERIOT]

A problem with some vee hull boats. Basically a warped pad that throws the front end out of alignment to compare to a car. The boat no matter what you do to the torque tab makes the boat pull to one side and become unstable at high speed. The last tunnel I rode in had a 280efi and ran 127 radar with two people in the boat, very stable at 90 over 25' center console boat wakes.

Hook in a bottom is when the rear of the pad is deeper (lower) than it is farther forward. This is undesireable on most hulls but is designed into some. Depending on the amount of hook it can be very difficult to make the boat fly or "air out" since it effectively moves the center of ballance to the transom & holds the nose down.

The runing crooked you were talking about is what we've always called "crabing". This is because of the action & reaction of the prop with the water & because the more dry a boat runs the less boat surface area is in the water to help hold the boat straight.

[pyro]

Pad vees have to be driven. They don't drive themselves. It's unstable only if you insist on trying to hold the wheel straight while you mash the gas pedal and hit the trim. You have to balance it on the pad, it takes practice.

Steering torque is to be expected with cable steering, particularly while accelerating. Excessive positive trim makes the torque worse, and over-trimming makes it unstable. You should have barely any spray behind you at WOT if you're trimmed right.

Don't worry about the hook. It's designed into the hull to control aero bowlift and help reduce porpoising at slower cruising speeds. It can also help to lift the stern at speed.

[Trikki1010]

Yep thats right. Not having stupid wood stringers ,bulkheads, dash & transom to rot out is just a marketing stunt:confused: . Who wouldn't want the wood in thier hulls to rot? :cool:

I'm with Rob on this one:rolleyes:

Light is fast, fact

Can't build any lighter or faster than wood;)

If you want a tub you can leave outdoors the rest of ur life, then maybe it would be something in ur venue.:p

[Trikki1010]

Come on, i could not see a 280 running ANY boat over 120, maybe more like 117 in a STV, and if the boat you went in was anything other than a STV I would be surprised to see much over 110.

I'm with Phil on this also, unless you rode with Helmut:eek: :eek:

And even he doesn't do it with 2 in it;)

STOCK 280's w/ an 8,200 box just ain't gonna pull that speed....

[Tango]

It takes 8600 rpm with a 28" wheel on a LIGHT STV to get just 105 mph on GPS. I guess that must be a 280 with 260 electronics turning over 10 grand to get 127 mph.

Of course you could be referring to the one STV in Houston with a 280 on it that goes 130 with a 30" cleaver.

LOL!!!

Luv ya Mike!

[rpm racing]

a stock 280 with 260 elec will not turn much over 9200 with anything bigger than a 28. I have tried it and went to a drag motor.

[STVBOY]

127 with a 280 I would to see!
The Riot is a blowover waiting to happen, and the no wood thing is a marketing stunt. The best boats in the world are built with wood.

RT

I don't think you have any clue about a riot! I have owned mine for three years and it is just as fast and safe as my STV was but handles rough water much better. There has only been a couple Riots that have flipped but there are probably more STV's and Mirages that have flipped. As far as a marketing stunt with no wood? My Riot is lighter than my STV stronger and a much bigger boat.

I have seen a stoker flip over so I guess I should say they are a blowover waiting to happen ha!?:confused:

[Trikki1010]

And can a stv hook? Yes it can, my euro did it in a bad way. Kurt

I remember that, I believe that you broke the steering bolt ???

AND exited through the passenger side of the boat:eek: :eek:

Glad to see u were okay and still running:cool:

[CLIMATEMASTER]

It's been a while. I know my buddy spent close to 20K for his 2.5 merc factory race motor. This was in about 96 there weren't a lotof GPS's back then it was on radar. How accurate? Who knows? I wasn''t looking for a speed arguement just a recommendation on tunnel or vee. Or more accurately Ally/Hydrostrteam VS Riot/STV. After a load of reading, searches and much appreciated replys I have chosen the Riot. More concerned with rough water ride than breaking a speed record. Assuming all goes well I'll pick it up early Saturday morning. Looking forward to the drive thru the Blue Ridge Mtns. Hadn't been to Lexington since '90. Thanks

[stoker2001]

I don't think you have any clue about a riot! I have owned mine for three years and it is just as fast and safe as my STV was but handles rough water much better. There has only been a couple Riots that have flipped but there are probably more STV's and Mirages that have flipped. As far as a marketing stunt with no wood? My Riot is lighter than my STV stronger and a much bigger boat.

I have seen a stoker flip over so I guess I should say they are a blowover waiting to happen ha!?:confused:John,i think you need to back up that statement by running IHBA with us In Sandiego this september:D Wonder why you never see or hear of Riots at any of the ODBA,DSRA,IHBA,SDBA,KDBA and SLDBA races:confused:

[RUDERIOT]

John,i think you need to back up that statement by running IHBA with us In Sandiego this september:D Wonder why you never see or hear of Riots at any of the ODBA,DSRA,IHBA,SDBA,KDBA and SLDBA races:confused:

There are 3 basic reasons for that. The first is that in stock form, they don't leave worth a dang. This isn't nearly as important in rope racing as it is in idle start style draggin' but it makes the boat difficult (to say the least) to make consistant. This is what Ropin' is all about.
Secondly, in stock form they are pretty hard to get through the transition successfully every time without fail. If the transition is messed up you loose that round without fail.
Thirdly, in stock form they become deadly at much over 115 m.p.h. in good conditions & can be very dangerous at substantially less than that in as little as a 10 m.p.h. gusty head or quartering wind. This is mainly due to the extremely long nose & light weight for their size.If you put any power on one you can't drive it balls to the wall for 1/4 mi. if it's proped to top out in 1/4 mi.
There are just too many negatives with a stock Riot to be concidered as a candidate for a serious 1/4 mi. drag hull, especially with all the S.T.V.s, Mirages of various designs, Q shots & Allisons out there.
I know these things cuz I've had mine for almost 10 rears & have been successfully modifying the bottom in small steps all this season. Every mod has worked sofar, but I ran out of time to do the last big mod (moving the rear of the pad forward 7'') in time for the Rumble.

[stoker2001]

There are 3 basic reasons for that. The first is that in stock form, they don't leave worth a dang. This isn't nearly as important in rope racing as it is in idle start style draggin' but it makes the boat difficult (to say the least) to make consistant. This is what Ropin' is all about.
Secondly, in stock form they are pretty hard to get through the transition successfully every time without fail. If the transition is messed up you loose that round without fail.
Thirdly, in stock form they become deadly at much over 115 m.p.h. in good conditions & can be very dangerous at substantially less than that in as little as a 10 m.p.h. gusty head or quartering wind. This is mainly due to the extremely long nose & light weight for their size.If you put any power on one you can't drive it balls to the wall for 1/4 mi. if it's proped to top out in 1/4 mi.
There are just too many negatives with a stock Riot to be concidered as a candidate for a serious 1/4 mi. drag hull, especially with all the S.T.V.s, Mirages of various designs, Q shots & Allisons out there.
.Couldnt of said it any better myself,good luck with your riot and be safe

[RBT]

I have plenty of knowledge of Riots, seen 3 go over. Ruderriot summed it all up, and I have seen his run at the Rumble, it was a FAST boat. But the fact is, they are not the fastest, quickest, or safeist. They are good in rough water though.
As for wood vs. glass, I won't even arge the point. But if you think I am wrong, maybe you should talk Wally at Triad, Pete at Skater, Randy at MTI, and all the other boat builders out there that money is no object and tell them that foam is better. I know why, and will only build with vacuum bagged or infused balsa and okume woods.

RT