Collectable vintage race engines....

[brichter]

I would like to hear what other collectors consider to be the most sought-after rare vintage race engine. Is it a T2X? Super Strangler? Chrysler Stacker? I gave up looking for a Mac 590 or 630 after many years. What is the ultimate motor of this category? Someone told me that a 1350 BP is worth two Chrysler stackers. I'd also like to see pictures of some prized motors if you have one.

[SCT]

An OMC Rotary engine would be a real prize! But I'm sure none were ever out of sight of OMC engineers and OMC factory drivers. But you never know......

[crazy horse]

A real 75H would cost you a big box of cash, If you found one. A Merc stacker should be worth some good money. Almost any of the old H motors are bringing good money on Ebay.

[Bruster]

A Merc stacker should be worth some good money.

That's ironic, The Stacker looks 10 on a stand or on a boat, and is one of the most valuable, but its one of the most useless motors made.:mad:

[Bruster]

Someone told me that a 1350 BP is worth two Chrysler stackers.

The value of a "1350 BP" would depend entirely on what motor it was made from......:eek:

[gatorer15]

is this type of motor http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f325/gatorer/boats/?action=view&current=NewImage3.jpg I have 80 hp,50,35,9.8 all oldie's

[Raceman]

What Bruce is sayin' is........... Merc NEVER made a 1350BP.

Personally I think the Mark75H Merc is the Holy Grail of outboard collectibles. Some of the OMC stuff is right up there too, the 4 cyl Stinger and Stinger GP Johnson and the Evinrude counterparts the Strangler and Super Strangler. The CCC and RS OMC's would have to be at the top of the list also. The Merc Twisters are higher on my personal desirability list, but it seems like there are more of em around, so they're not as unique.

As far as Stackers, I've got three of em (and would have 4 if Kim would ever get me that extra elbow), so they don't seem quite as ellusive or desireable as some of the stuff I've never been able to find. (we always want what we can't have).

[Dave S]

Ya rite Racman, we get what we look for and they sit on the floor. Then it gets old and we look for something more fancy or rare. I am looking for a Merc Drone V4 air cooled, just because I think it is Rare....... Someone might have a bunch of them not thinking they are rare as henstheeth. ;) I think the Stacker is the coolest looking, but why stop there, get them all, like trading cards.:D BoysToys.

[Raceman]

The top of my list is the Evinrude Super Strangler,

Carl would be crushed if he knew you said that.:eek: :eek:

[RBT]

Carl should be crushed, he has got a running one!

RT

[brichter]

What Bruce is sayin' is........... Merc NEVER made a 1350BP.

Personally I think the Mark75H Merc is the Holy Grail of outboard collectibles. Some of the OMC stuff is right up there too, the 4 cyl Stinger and Stinger GP Johnson and the Evinrude counterparts the Strangler and Super Strangler. The CCC and RS OMC's would have to be at the top of the list also. The Merc Twisters are higher on my personal desirability list, but it seems like there are more of em around, so they're not as unique.

As far as Stackers, I've got three of em (and would have 4 if Kim would ever get me that extra elbow), so they don't seem quite as ellusive or desireable as some of the stuff I've never been able to find. (we always want what we can't have).
Not being a Mercguy, I can't confirm or disprove that A 1350BP was ever built, But an extremely knowledgeable former racer I know that has one insists Merc did indeed build a 1350BP (or two). Having worked for the other guys, one thing I do know is there are truths and legends and as of right now I still don't know. If I take a 3 hour drive and look at it myself, I probably still won't know.

[Mark75H]

Merc both did and did not "build" 1350BP's ... they were a factory team only motor not for sale to anyone .... so basically they did build them .... but did not SELL them. To my knowledge they have standard 1350 decals ... so you sort of wouldn't know/couldn't tell even if you owned it; all you would see is a 1350 decaled motor with stacks over a BP mid with a Super Speedmaster adapted to the bottom ... the whole deal could have been made at the factory, at a dealer or a few weeks ago in someone's garage.

If someone can tell me how you could confirm a particular 1350 stacker is a factory race motor, I'm more than willing to listen.

[bridges]

Merc both did and did not "build" 1350BP's ... they were a factory team only motor not for sale to anyone .... so basically they did build them .... but did not SELL them. To my knowledge they have standard 1350 decals ... so you sort of wouldn't know/couldn't tell even if you owned it; all you would see is a 1350 decaled motor with stacks that could have been made at the factory, at a dealer or a few weeks ago in someone's garage.


Sam, thanks for the clarification, you beat me to it! Mercury did in fact put together some "1350" Super BPs for racing, and some of them made it to private owners, I know of one dealer who had one in the early seventies.

It's too easy to fall in to the trap of saying that something was "never" done! Mercury, like any company involved in racing and cutting edge development, did a lot of things that are long forgotten, and sometimes make us scratch our heads when we see them now. Just like the Twister 1 with the aluminum flywheel. We'll probably never really know it's history!:cool:

[brichter]

Ok maybe I stated that wrong. The only reason a super strangler is on top of the list is because its something that is extremely rare, and man its a neat looking engine with that 15 inch mid and speedmaster

My all time favourite motor is the 1500XS. If I had to go on a desert island, I would take my 1500XS.

I still don't see how a T2X can be more readily available than a strangler/stinger...I've never seen a complete T2X in real life but have seen a few super stranglers.
Nothing sounds quite like a Super Strangler, Love the HOOOOWL.....gives me goosebumps. They are pretty too, love the anodized blue flywheel and the gold 8 barrel.

[Bruster]

If I had to go on a desert island, I would take my 1500XS.

Man, you ain't right. My choices in order are:
1, My dogs.
2, A magic refrigerator
3, My old girlfriend
The XS motors will get left behind........:D

[Mark75H]

If you go to the original question as written ... there is only 1 answer: the Mark20H. Without a doubt, it is the absolute most sought after race motor ever built.

There are many motors that are far rarer than the 20H and many motors harder to find than the 20H, but no motor has more people trying to find a good example.

Of the bigger motors the most awe inspiring/best attention getter at shows would be a 1250 BP or 1250 Super BP. From the decals on the top, to the 3 huge megaphones, to the tip of the nosecone and the nub of plastic on the prop nut, absolutely everything on the motor says "race motor" like nothing else

[gatorer15]

I WAS told some off them motor's had brass sleaves in them in the mid 60's the one's that have kiekhaefer on block my 1967 35 has odd sleave's in it i had it apart my 80 hp did not my 9.8 or fifty never had them apart and guy who worked on them is dead, is there any truth to special sleave's in early Kiekhaefer merc's i don't know if 1350 was built but if karl Kiekhaefer was there it could have happened.

[Mark75H]

No brass sleeves, ever. Brass is not hard enough to be a cylinder sleeve

[crazy horse]

If I end up on a desert island with my XS, It's because that damn engine wouldn't start.:D It's hard to think of any of my XS engines, Parts or SSM gearcases as a collectable yet? I still ring those old crates out. I just don't hold them down as long anymore. I've had my first one 30 years this year. If work would have been better last year I'd a bought a third one, And I was gonna run that one too.

[Fast Fred]

I have never seen a motor that Screems RACEMODA more than the CC.
can't say for my self that Any merc racemotor other than the 2.5 OS is inpressive,
the CC was and still is the badest true 3cyl ever made under 60ci by anyone.
the mark20h got replaced by something else, thare is no replacement for the CC.

[Mark75H]

the mark20h got replaced by something else Nope, the 20H still races. It hasn't been replaced; that makes it the longest running race motor ever. 52 years and counting (I never thought of that before). Its a veteran, but not yet retired.

Where is the CC raced? :)

[Tom Smyth]

Man, you ain't right. My choices in order are:
1, My dogs.
2, A magic refrigerator
3, My old girlfriend
The XS motors will get left behind........


I dont see beer anywhere in the top three..........
you need to readjust your priorities...

Tom

[SCT]

Bruster,

Does the current wife know about the "old girlfriend" thing??

[Fast Fred]

USA, Aus. show me a more powerfull 3cyl outboard of any size, no 1/2 a 6packs.
:cool:

[Bruster]

Man, you ain't right. My choices in order are:
1, My dogs.
2, A magic refrigerator
3, My old girlfriend
The XS motors will get left behind........


I dont see beer anywhere in the top three..........
you need to readjust your priorities...

Tom

Man it's the "MAGIC" 'frige.... you don't get out much???
Here, watch this and tell me again where my priorities are..... ;) http://tinyurl.com/hgots

[Bruster]

Bruster,

Does the current wife know about the "old girlfriend" thing??

Huh? What you talkin about?;)

[gatorer15]

they were gold in color hope not rust sleave's in my 35

[Mark75H]

they were gold in color hope not rust sleave's in my 35

Are you talking about the reed blocks?

Yes, some were aluminum and some were brass. Nothing really special about the old brass style reed blocks.

[Mark75H]

USA, Aus. show me a more powerfull 3cyl outboard of any size, no 1/2 a 6packs.
:cool:
You asked for it ... 3 cylinders, less than half the size and more powerful than a CC

http://www.eatonvillenews.net/images/Bob/BOAR%20RACES%20R-46%20ROSSIE%20ENGINE%20R-46%20%28OP%202%29%20AUG.%2028,%205%20Rossiengine.jpg

[Raceman]

It'd be interesting to hear what Sherlock thinks about the possibility of a factory 1350BP. Since the 1250 Super BP was basically a 1350 block with the older style 1250 front half (irrelevant from a performance standpoint, but only mounted the starter differently) I guess it wouldn't be impossible to believe, but with the advent of the new Twister the question "why" would beg to be answered.

[Fast Fred]

I can burn alky as well, :cool: then we are back to ware we started,

[Mark75H]

I can burn alky as well, :cool: then we are back to ware we started,Even on alky your (49ci) CC isn't close to the power of the (20ci) Rossi 350

[Fast Fred]

i like to see a dyno slip.:cool:

[Mark75H]

Next time you are in Italy, Guiseppi Rossi can show you ... In order to get the speeds & accelleration they do they have to be about 150 hp

[Fast Fred]

I'm just short of that on gas. dose it have reeds?i don't see power valves.
Torque, alys arent big on Torque. thinkin she spins 10,000+ rpms, with such port hight it's doutfull that it would get my hull on plain, and if it did, thare is a point
between on plain and useable tunnel presure, wich is a longer time for my hull
( got a way deeper tunnel) compaired to the hull it's on, it's more doutfull that it would pull it's self through this point.:cool:

[Mark75H]

The Arens has power valves, the Rossi just changes the pipe length to change the power curve. It has reed valves right behind the carbs.


doutfull that it would get my hull on plain, and if it did, thare is a point between on plain and useable tunnel presure, wich is a longer time for my hull ( got a way deeper tunnel) compaired to the hull it's on, it's more doutfull that it would pull it's self through this point.

I agree the Rossi probably have a hard time getting your boat over plane ... but you are adding special conditions that you didn't have earlier

[Fast Fred]

ya you are right, :eek: :cool:
I'm just short of that on gas. :cool:

[raymar]

Don't forget the Merc 650XS engines; Even Mercury advertised them at 90 horsepower in their sales brochures when they came out. Try finding one today if you can (outside Raceman's collection of course).

[Dave S]

If only Carl had made a V6 out of the v4 drone motoa we wuda had a 2.5 back in 1947 in stead of KE7s.:eek: The drone motors were loopers and the bore size 3.5.:cool: If only

[Raceman]

I found one...took a while though

I looked for about 15 years with several near misses (including good ole' Ted in Boynton Beach sellin' one out from under me). Then, all of a sudden I found 2 within several months of each other.:) Now if I could just have the same luck with a CCC/RS and Super Strangler/StingerGP.:(

[Fast Fred]

like this
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7356/eccc13nn.th.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eccc13nn.jpg)
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8875/eccc29mf.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eccc29mf.jpg)
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3159/motorbig9qf.th.gif (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=motorbig9qf.gif)
:cool:

[Fast Fred]

ya the one on the botom She don't like the 650SX, the top two are the same moda:cool:

[Tom Foley]

long live the toilet bowl as it was affectionately known !

[1BadAction]

You asked for it ... 3 cylinders, less than half the size and more powerful than a CC

http://www.eatonvillenews.net/images/Bob/BOAR%20RACES%20R-46%20ROSSIE%20ENGINE%20R-46%20%28OP%202%29%20AUG.%2028,%205%20Rossiengine.jpg

woa. thats some wicked stuff right there. looks loud :eek:

[jphii]

Something like that is my next boat, maybe a 250feh. Now those are fun.

[Fast Fred]

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9308/mvc001f1pq8.th.jpg (http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mvc001f1pq8.jpg)
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9381/mvc002f2ad9.th.jpg (http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mvc002f2ad9.jpg)
MOD50 FT, that one of them650xs loopers?:eek:

[Raceman]

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9308/mvc001f1pq8.th.jpg (http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mvc001f1pq8.jpg)
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/9381/mvc002f2ad9.th.jpg (http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mvc002f2ad9.jpg)
MOD50 FT, that one of them650xs loopers?:eek:

Everything I see in that picture has OMC written all over it.;)

[gatorer15]

update on 35,50,and 120 in board i was contacted by NEW YORK FISH AND GAME they had one of my boats with two fisherman in it with no up to date reg well i asked is it list on X 120 i sent to NEW YORK DMV yes well it's not paid for either? i guess there in a jam now, I guess it had the 35 on it too. I see it soon it's mine if not paid for gatorer15

[Fast Fred]

Everything I see in that picture has OMC written all over it.
Originally Posted by Raceman.

ya that one is OMC, was askin Inline about that one he got on the stand thare.
thinkin best to know what the crossflow one looked like, so when i'm lookin at a Looper Merc 650xs, i can see the dif:cool:


thinkin the OMC Make a snack out of eather:eek: :cool: ;)

[Raceman]

Fred, here's a thread with a picture of the powerhead of one of mine. I can't find the disc that has it from the other side.

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47765&highlight=650XS

[Mark75H]

Norris, Freddie is asking US for a picture of a LOOPER "xs" triple so he will know what to take pictures of at Weindant's shop

Fred ... if Weindant has such a motor, it is either hidden where you'll never see it, or he will gladly show you what to take a picture of when you ask ... just ask

[Fast Fred]

Mark75H

Fred ... if Weindant has such a motor, it is either hidden where you'll never see it, or he will gladly show you what to take a picture of when you ask ... just ask

i did, we be seein one, said it's dif' than the reg' one.:cool:

[J Taylor]

Not sorry to say enthusiasts that I am completely biased in favor of the British Anzani and Harrison Racing Outboards from the later 1950s to when then all went of out use in the 1980s. I am talking about the small CC or cubic inch 2 cylinder 250 (15 cu.in.) and 350 (20 cu.in.) loop charged racing engines of that period. The Anzani could run on gasoline as a British B Stock racing engine but both the Anzanis and Harrisons excelled running on methanol with lube and nitromethane.

The Anzani specifically started the world wide loop charged 2 stroke charge into the future, even though the loop design reached back into the 1930s when they were not allowed to run B Stock in North America and were turned on to fuel in Alky/Pro classes. They were running high 80 mile per hour speeds by the late 1960s and over 100 miles per hour by 1971 and runs to 106 and 107 mph were being done in the 1980s when they plain ran out of boat for 350CC engines that dynoed in the 450 horsepower per liter of displacement range causing kricks in the necks of big inch raceengines drivers when they did it.

Soon to follow was Quincy, Konig, Crescent, Parker, and other more hybrid engines all with displacements under 1100 CCs. Harrison set course average speed records in 350CC to over an 80 mile per hour average speed around the oval race courses. Mercury, OMCs, and all the other Japanese stuff, much larger only became loopers later where they were the slower deflectors before. Ever see a Merc 75H fueler get passed by a British Anzani??? That also happened with the Quincy Flatheads to took Anzani and Harrison's lead and went that direction along with Konig and the rest.

God bless those little engines and their owner drivers as they led the way with their smallness and technology it took years for others much bigger and less technically advanced to catch on and follow.

Note: The Anzani 4 cylinder reconstruction is being featured on another thread on this site. Konig and Merc had similar ideas put to them in cases verticle and horizontal. :)

[Riverman]

woa. thats some wicked stuff right there. looks loud :eek:Yeah, you sure don't see chambers without silencers anymore. I lost part of my hearing push starting TZ250's and RG's back in the roadracing days. Nothing like having your ears right by the stinger when they light. :eek:

[J Taylor]

They came green and silver and they went like a bullet in their day. I am in the midst of restoring this 1950 Mercury KG9-Q to high performance condition for a collector from Lake of the Woods, Ontario, Can. To most I know in this sport, if your KG9-Q (later H'd) or Merc 40H doesn't sound like a racing engine, there seemed to be everyone and their brothers cat making either cyclone style exhausts for them or like in this case, real Quincy pipes that were even added to, to just get the right tune for power out of them.

[J Taylor]

This is the first real mechanical mockup of this twin blocked 4 cylinder engine not seen together since 1964 or 1965. It is quite simple, clean, mechanically hardy and went like blazes in C-Alky Runabout taking USA championships in the NOA (National Outboard Association) in 1962, 1963 and 1964. Enjoy the pictures.

[J Taylor]

With the Del Orto twin remote fuel bowls held up high and the Silver Arrow II gearcase mounted this Anzani Twin Block Alky C Class engine is the only one known to exist again after that long absence since 1965. I am taking Tim Chance's advice and making it a working model but see to it that it is set ultra-conservatively for the noise, the smell and to keep the engineering together for posterity in public display. :)

[J Taylor]

Of all American racing engines that tuned into the era of loop scavenging and did so with a vengence were the Quincy Welding's famous flathead engines that came in 2, 4 and 6 cylinder versions from A(2 cyl 15 cube), B(2 cyl 20 cube), C(4 cyl 30 cube), D(4 cyl 40 cube) & F (44 cube 4 cylinder and 60 cube 6 cylinder engines). Pictured here is one D Flathead with all Quincy crankcases and block and one of the oldest and most collectable 44 cubic inch F class Flatheads. Why were they called Flatheads? Other than a tiny 7 to 6 cc offset combustion chamber per cylinder the head in the rest of the cylinder was flat, which on the upstroke with a cylinder full of atomized methanol, caster and air, upon compression to the top would force the swirling mix from one side of the top of the head to the other propogating the mix for spark detonation with such force, the swirling mix burned very efficiently forcing the downstroke of power. Sure it was loop scavenged intake and exhaust but the head and combustion chamber was all part of that successful mix.

Enjoy the old pictures of my former collection of these fine engines by O F Christner's Quincy Welding, 5th and State, Quincy, Ill, USA. :)

[J Taylor]

This 1950 Mercury KG9 collectors engine pictured here is now full cowled with chromed Quincy stacks and Michigan performance prop available for the stock Q length tower and pleasure gearcase. She is one noisey classic. :)

[J Taylor]

This is another one of the half dozen Mercury Mark 55H class D stock racing engines that I previously owned which was heavily campaigned in this neck of the woods in the MORA up until the 1980s. Now it is pictured in its classic and overhauled state housed in a collection of other classic racing engines in Kenora, Ontario, Canada with its earlier brother the Mercury KG9 in the previous post. Enjoy the pictures. :)

[The Big Al]

Makes me wish i was younger!
This just looks mean

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=118328&d=1163309240

[J Taylor]

Seeing them with the Quiincy stacks or in the 1960s and early 1970s I hade 2 KG9s H'd and later 2 Merc 40Hs for racing D and they allowed us, the younger crowd because we had less money and therefore speed to use "cylcone" style open sided engines that really snarled. I am not sure which was worse? Getting it outa 4 pipes with the sound going rearward or 12 exhaust ports each firing out the side at 90 degrees as the crank rotated once. They made you deafer whether you wore earplugs or not! If I was younger I think I would do things just a leeeeetle different! :)

[J Taylor]

The venerable O.F Christner. - Quincy Welding built Quincy Flathead Loop engines are being taken up when ever found and restored as collector engines. These 4 cylinder Alky engines came in 30, 40 and 44 (some got as big as 46 cubic inch) cubic inch versions from Quincy. Several hundred of the 4 cylinder versions were built along with the many A and B Alky 2 cylinder and their huge representations in the Quincy 6 cylinder Flathead Loop versions. Pictured here is a D Alky Quincy at 40 cubic inches. Estimated horsepower was in the 160+ horsepower range at somewhere around 10,000 rpms. Its Mercury based crankshafts, connecting rods and ignitions were really given a workout! Enjoy the pictures. :)

[J Taylor]

Pictured here is the typical Quincy A and B Flathead Loop engines. Typically they were mated to pipe type torque tube towers with Mercury clamps, swivel and saddle. They were produced with with either the Mercury A-B Quicksilver or Konig gearcases. Some were mounted on the typical Mercury A-B factory towers which could be dicey as they could and did crack from the strain of these power 2 cylinder Fathead Loop engines. Pictured here is a Quincy B Flathead Loop engine. The only difference between the A and B Flatheads was bore and therefore piston size. Early Quincy Flatheads did use in cases Mercury front crankcases that were found to be inadequate strength wise so it was not too long where all Quincy engines were completely crankcased and blocked by Quincy products though they retained using Mercury connecting rods, crankshafts, ignitions and carbs in different variations.

Enjoy the 2 cylinder Quincy Flathead pictures. :)

[J Taylor]

If there was ever a one of a kind Quincy padded block Mercury 55H-1 Class D Alky this was it! The outside looks ever bit as similar as any Quincy padded block Mercury of the 1960s Alky racing era before Loop Charging came along. Finding it had a badly scorched Turner Alky piston didn't seem too much different than most but removing the Carter Model N Alky conversion carbs and fiding no reed blocks behind them was a shock. When the engine was torn down for overhaul it was found to contain a specialty crankshaft with a rotary valve system inside of the same principle construction found as rotary valve crankshafts in Hot Rod engines of yesteryear. According to sources this one of a kind and unique crankshaft for this engine was reputed to have been built by Homer Kinkaid of outboard racing fame. The engine was well run and was repaired for future use and is now in a collection of other outboard racing engines.

Enjoy the pictures. :)

[J Taylor]

The Crescent is one of the rarest racing engines ever to see race courses in North America. Following the lead of British Anzani these Swedish racing engines had some real firsts in technical innovations. Instead of cast iron or steel cylinder liners they were the first to use chrome plating over aluminum bores to give a finished chrome bore for the pistons and rings to run on.

There were only small differences between a Stock Racing Super C Crescent and its Alky cousin. There was compression that was determined by the use of a stock gas racing piston or a high crowned high compression piston for Alky. Another difference was the use of either Solex or Bing carbs. The Solexes were typically for gasoline and the Bings were for Methanol use in ALky.

Crecent engines were one of the first engines that recognized that there was a pulse tune available through the exhaust due to degrees of firing being a 3 cylinder engine. Within the tower was installed a simple stack that could be varied for short or long courses.

In the 1970s the APBA Super C class Crescent powered hydros on gasoline could typically lap a race course with speeds in excess of 80 miles per hour. Quite an accomplishment for a Loop Charged - Piston Port engine of that era. Either the Super C Gas Stock racer or the C Class Alky make excellent collector engines of significant value.

Enjoy the pictures of this engine. :)

[J Taylor]

Why these Mercury 30H and 30H-1 engines are worth more to the collectors market than the Merc 55H and Merc 55H-1s mystifies most collectors of these famour racing Mercs? Pictured here is a typical Merc 30H earlier build with the humped recoil starter. Another difference was the earlier block having single intake inspection ports. Later Merc 30H-1s like their bigger cousins the 55H-ls went to the double combined intake inspection ports later and with that came the easy recoil square top recoil starter system that eliminated the declining sheave type that were on the earlier model humped recoil cowls of the Merc 30Hs and 55Hs, making starting a pleasure of ease.

All engines have an achilles tendon weakness somewhere in their design and the 30H was no different with an under engineered gearcase notorious for driveshaft failures that would throw the gears through the side of the gearcase usually spoiling everything. Strange as it seems it used A-B one to one gears as a stock racing engine but improving its longevity seems to have come from using 16 / 21 gears instead improving the situation that were used on the Mercury 20H cornpopper engines.

Enjoy the pictures of this classic stock racing outboard. :)

[J Taylor]

Three very collectable British Anzani engines still out there to be found are pictured here.

The first is the GB version of the British Anzani B Stock Gas racing outboard. The one pictured with its wrap around to water level exhausts was the last "new" never fired Anzani left anywhere known in the world and is in the hands of a collector.

The Tenney spec'd and built Anzani A and B Class Alkys are well known for their huge carb conversions and their well known classic "crecent shaped" exhausts as their exhaust ports went straight up for the top cylinder and straight down for the bottom one. The class A Alky, B Alky and B Stock had some differences in appearance to tip off the onlooker as to which one they were as all versions of the engine had major similarities.

The cast iron loop blocks for the A Class Alky engines had a distinctly smaller casting and of course smaller bore that fit the commone Anzani crankcase and assemblies that were used for all 3 engines. The B Class Alky engines had a 322CC bore size that was distinct and approved for B Alky. The B Stock Gas block's bore was biggest of them all at some 349CCs that made some appearances later when the B Alky class was re-CC'd and became termed 350 Pro (350cc upper displacement limit). It was reported that the increase from 322 to 349 made quite a difference making the engine more square than long stroke.

Enjoy the 3 pictures. :)

[J Taylor]

I assumed that any engine that looked like a Quincy Flathead must be a Quincy Flathead? Dead Wrong! Only recently and meaning the last few years did I find out there was the Parker Loop outboard racing engines. These engines were not flathead loop engines like the Quincys but were loop charged engines with a shaped cylinder head quite different than the Quincy made engines. The Parker Loop engines did use Mercury crankshafts, rods, ignitions and carbs like the Quincys. Parker also made aftermarket parts for Modified Mercury engines like his converging bell pipe sets that were quite remarkable as well as some towerhousings for some models of Mercs.

The following 2 pictures are 2 views of a Parker Class D Loop Alky. Enjoy the pictures and add to them for other viewers if possible.:)

[J Taylor]

This is the very famous and one of the very few 1929 Johnson VR-40 racing engines that Johnson used to set many a record in its class. There may have been half a dozen of these engines ever produced and this one in the hands of a Kenora, Ontario, Canada collector is pristine, mechanically excellent and ready to go. This is evidently the first Johnson engine to have and use a crankshaft rotary valve system and sure used it well to set many of those early records. Note the Johnson factory racing gearcase is not unlike those of years gone by in designs similar to many with the nosecone type design.

Enjoy the 2 pictures of this truely remarkable in its day, collectors engine.:)

[Mark75H]

Isn't that motor a VR-45? Sure looks like it has the gear driven VR-45 external rotary valve.

"R-40" was used to designate 1928 racing models ... TR-40, PR-40 and KR-40. I've never seen a VR-40 or any reference to one.

"R-45" designated racing 1929 models

A detailed picture of the number on the flywheel and the carb mounting would clear up the confusion and add a new factory racer to the list

[J Taylor]

Maybe it is a VR-45 but, the owner/collector termed it just a 1929 Johnson VR-40 and I didn't question his veracity on his own engine, he knows so well. Unfortuately he can't use a computer because of visual problems and he is a private individual and at times does like to let others see his collection on his terms so registration of any sort may be something he has not in the past and may not engage in the future. That is purely up to him.

[Fast Fred]

the FT-19s on that list?:cool:

[J Taylor]

There was over 100 manufacturers of outboard racing engines made worldwide. Originally Konig built deflector piston technology engines but with the onslaught of the British Anzani and Harrison loop charged racing engines in the later 1950s Dieter Konig like other makers of racing engines of the period was quick to also change to Loop Charged engines from 15 cubic inch to the big 48 cubic inch. In the USA the largest dealer was Overseas Distributors of Texas USA. The collector market is warming up to these earlier edition 2 cylinder engines here featured with megaphone exhausts pipes. When the loop charging system became the standard for Konig they were one of the earliest outboard racing engines in the methanol fuel Alky classes to run tuned length expansion chambers so commonly seen today on a lot of racing 2 strokes, 2 stroke industry wide.

The following are some very early 1960s Konig 2 cylinder engines for your view to enjoy and collect. :)

[Mark75H]

Right town, wrong state - Dallas, Georgia, not Texas;)

[Mark75H]

That particular 2 into 1 side pipe may very well be a Quincy :) It doesn't quite have the Berlin-ish look to it

[J Taylor]

Over here up north we don't suffer from name duplication much, like there is only 1 Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan according to comdian Nestor Pistor, 1 Owls Eye, Alberta or the 1 Toronto, Ontario, so being up here has its advantages while you go down the highway looking for a good burger. You won't find 2 Dallas s in different states to screw you up! :) If you say so, Dallas, Georgia it is. :)

[J Taylor]

Following the loop charge 2 stroke revolution of the British Anzani came the Birmingham Metal Products (USA) Harrison racing outboards. Birmingham Metal Products was already making replacement or modified parts for Anzani engines when they brought out their Harrison engines. Some found a bit of confusion between Anzani and Harrison as Harrisons also dumped their exhausts straight up and straight down out of each cylinder being in-line 2 bangers. They both shared the same exhaust profile of having Crescent shaped stacks. Harrisons went on to do some of their own record setting in the North West USA with one engine setting lap records with average speeds over 80 miles per hour around the oval race course. One noteable thing about Harrison Alky racing engines was their use of aluminum cylinder blocks and ferrous liners. When Anzani was winding down, the next generation of components were out with Harrison purchasing what was left and with some re-engineering sold them to racers as Harrisons until they had changed to their own very unique loop charged engines.

The following pictures are from the Harrison to outboard racers sales brochure that featured the Harrison engine and racing outboard services and price lists. Enjoy the pictures. :)

[J Taylor]

Becoming very collectable is the Mercury 30H Class C Alky by Quincy Welding. Long before Quincy Welding bringing out its own Flathead Loop engines, Quincy was modifying Mercury outboards for Alky racing in all the North American run Alky classes in the National Outboard Association (N.O.A.). Quincy would install compression pads in the combustion chambers to put compression ratios over 12 to 1 and even higher. Within the Mercury block tunnel fillers were installed to shrink the crankcase volume per cylinder to increase transfer speeds. Along with intake and exhaust porting Quincy had developed its 2 elbos into 1 exhaust pipe technologies making for a great exhaust system then very much used in gas modified outboard class engines today in 2, 4 and 6 cylinder configurations.

The engine featured here has been completely overhauled and detailed by the collector. If an when some one asks you to rope over an engine like this on display, you better be a power lifter in sports, the cylinder compression is grewsome! :)

[Mark75H]

Quincy would install compression pads in the combustion chambers to put compression ratios over 12 to 1 and even higher.

Very true. Compression ratios of 18:1 and more were common on alky converted Mercs

[Fast Fred]

make room for the 650sx Looper on that list.:cool:

[J Taylor]

Sam, youir always telling everyone else that there were over 150 versions or makes of racing engines produced all over the place and here but with all that accululated knowledge I can not recollect (I stand to be corrected) ever seeing you post any pictures of those over 150 makes of engines? You must have loads of pictures to go with the accumulated knowledge you talk about, how about some pictures and a writeup to go with the pictures you could post? There are a lot of people here never mind me that would like to see the other over 100+ not posted here. That would make this thread even more interesting? Come on Sam, post some pictures and some words to entertian the rest of us? :)

[Mark75H]

Search the over 4100 posts I've made here on Scream and Fly and you will find at least 90% of the motors, pictures and descriptions.

The only way I'll go thru a very complete list is where I can completely control the thread on BRF, eliminating spurious posts and comments (but leaving in relavent content). I started that thread once and do intend to continue it ... its called Waaaaay back to the beginning. The link is here (http://www.********************/forums/showthread.php?t=334). I started with the 1925 Caille racer and only got up to 1929 so far. Each day I am tempted to resume it, but it is a daunting task to get every detail correct.

[Dave S]

Sam ya'r LAZZZY.:rolleyes: HeeHee only 4100 some threads, get typing, and get the facts rite or I'm going to sic my dogs on ya. Well time for my Nappy time.:p

[Mark75H]

I might be lazy, but you are spurious :eek: (and I'm not afraid of your dogs:p or your "mom" hehehe)

[Raceman]

The only way I'll go thru a very complete list is where I can completely control the thread, eliminating spurious posts and comments (but leaving in relavent content).

Tell you what I'll do. You post the thread and details, and I'll deleat any post to it by anyone other than you and we'll stick it to the top of this forum. How's that for control?:)

By the way.......... what in the hell is "spurious"? Is that what the Fla. Gators usta be and now South Carolina is?????

[J Taylor]

Like I said, I stand to be corrected. I usually don't ask what motivates people and I don't dig into people's held private lives. Still some picture contributions would be a good thing for this thread because people either don't know or don't dig. Recycling stuff from other sites does help this site in these areas and topics and the other sites too because people get turned on to a wider world that answers questions like, why did they do that with that? The wider the viewership, the better informed and enthusiastic people get about their sport or their collections based on the sport that need preservation. I sure don't think your lazy, few people that are in the sport or serious collectors/restorers are.

[Scream And Fly]

Sam, as Norris said, just let us know and it's yours.

Greg

[Fast Fred]

Mark75H , do you have a shot of an FT-CC, never did see one, just the one in my mind, didn't think thare was any such thing, fightin me at times, but comein together on the moda stand. would like to see how near or far i am from what
thay sent out from the factory. to see a Mod50 Power head i had to build one.
:cool:

[Fast Fred]

hang on, got the oneman show over hear, i'm thinkin about 5 or so :cool:

[ber1023]

i got 2 stranglers and the most desirable engines are the rotary,CC,CCC,cresent,75h,20h

[Mini Max]

A 4-60 works for me. After buying the motor I got the plans to use the powerhead in a midget race car. Not.

http://www.forumpictureprocessor.com/pictureprocessor/images/file000_3.jpg http://www.forumpictureprocessor.com/pictureprocessor/images/file001_1.jpg

[Chips overboard]

Ted screwed me out of a 1959 55 H ,son of a bitch took my Mint Champion Hot Rod I shipped him from Ma. and never sent the 55H in an even trade . I drove to Fla. to surprise him and found out he died the day before. Bastard!!!!

[gem56]

For me a Chrysler stacker , I would love one in my collection

[Bob V]

For me a Chrysler stacker , I would love one in my collection

I spotted this one in the back of Santa's workshop. Perhaps it has you name on it....Happy Holidays...:thumbsup:

527981

[gem56]

yes please , will it fit down the chiminy ??

[Bob V]

yes please , will it fit down the chiminy ??

Santa has a magical way of getting anything down the chimney, large or small. Ya just got to believe....

[Chips overboard]

What is a CC ???? for us Idiots

[RogerH]

Here's your answer:

530039