T-2xs

[Bruster]

I like the sounds of that. T-2X Mid with an XS on top. Now the question is: do I shift or not? I think I'll set it up so I can go with the SSM or a shifter. That'll all look pretty wild on the Carlson. Maybe I should use the red Twister decals. We'll see. Is there any way the trim ram system can be mounted all on the outside of the transom? How about steering? I want to stay with the hydraulic. Any thoughts?:D

[Raceman]

Bruce, I'm sure the trim can be done. I think you'd have two choices......... easy OR cheap. As for the easy, all it'd take is a late model champ swivel (hyd. up/down type). Otherwise I think you'd have to fab some brackets for old early style exterior inline rams to mount on both sides of the champ pin, which might not be cheap afterall unless you've got a pair of the rams, which I've never run across. My stacker boat has 4 conventional inline rams mounted on ugly home made steel/rusty brackets. It was the first thing I intended to rebuild after I bought it, but never got it done.

[largecar91]

Bruce, let me look today at the t2 mid. I have a spare champ trim cylinder that I don't need. I think it would work and be the best looking set up because you would not see the ram. As far as I'm concerned, The T2/ T2x's were the best sounding motors Merc ever made!

[Bruster]

Bruce, let me look today at the t2 mid. I have a spare champ trim cylinder that I don't need. I think it would work and be the best looking set up because you would not see the ram. As far as I'm concerned, The T2/ T2x's were the best sounding motors Merc ever made!

That might work. I like the T-2X/T3 housings best of all the 12 mids with the turned down exhaust like the Offshores. I have always wanted to run some setback on the Carlson, but refused to install a jack plate. This fixes that problem and who has ever seen an XS on a 12" mid?:D

[Jeff_G]

My race boat ran a T2 mid with an XS powerhead for years. We also played with a T2X (Champ style) but couldn't make it work well. The XS mid is actually the best for all around preformance with the XS powerhead. The T2 used a number of exhaust configurations and tuning including a type of water tuning in the exhaust.
For trim the T2 used 2 small trim rams. If you can find some they work great. If not you can use "Petty Brackets" and the standard trim rams mounted at a right angle to the transom. There had also been tries at the thru transon single trim ram in the can.
When I first ran both JP and Formula V I used a thrust block.
I also always used a normal shifting gearcase, although on a V bottom I use the later ADI ignition inline gearcase. With the XS if you had to use any positive trim you would lose water pressure. Not good on an inline.

[Raceman]

...............and who has ever seen an XS on a 12" mid?:D

Actually I ran that combo on my 15 Ally in about '76 or '77 for a short time. I'd tried to run a T2X on it and couldn't get the damn thing on top because of the picky/overcarbed condition, coupled with the long half of the tuner being jambed about 6" in the water. I stuck a J powerhead under the T2 cowl and ran it until I put the V6 powerhead back on it. Back then I didn't have 2 V6 electrical systems at first and my budget was real tight, so if I wanted 2 boats running at the same time, either the Ally or the Sidewinder had to have an inline on it.:o

[T2x]

Actually I ran that combo on my 15 Ally in about '76 or '77 for a short time. I'd tried to run a T2X on it and couldn't get the damn thing on top because of the picky/overcarbed condition, coupled with the long half of the tuner being jambed about 6" in the water. I stuck a J powerhead under the T2 cowl and ran it until I put the V6 powerhead back on it. Back then I didn't have 2 V6 electrical systems at first and my budget was real tight, so if I wanted 2 boats running at the same time, either the Ally or the Sidewinder had to have an inline on it.:o

RM:

Those "rusty trim brackets" you have on your stackers......Is it possible that they are Petty Brackets?..... If so that was the hot setup at the time.

Might be worth reconditioning, rather than re-rigging.

T2x

[largecar91]

Why are they called "Petty Brackets"?

[Raceman]

I doubt it seriously unless Petty was a blacksmith, and a crude one at that. These look like they were cut out of 3/16 or 1/4" steel with a torch and stick welded by a rookie. They're probably saveable with a lot of grinding, rewelding and finish work.

[T2x]

Why are they called "Petty Brackets"?

Bill Petty made them at his shop. These brackets changed the trim cylinder placement and leverage which both sped up and strengthened the process.

RM:

Do you have pictures of your brackets?

T2x

[crazy horse]

I'd like to see a set of these Petty brackets if anyone has a set? I'd try makin set or two if I could see what they are.:D

[25ss]

I made these out of aluminum from from Petty plans someone posted on here several years ago.
I didnt use them i made a single center ram instead.
Dale!

[25ss]

Heres the center mount.
Bruce you should be able to use the T2x trim ram with your transom extension.
Mine has about the same extension and i only had to put a small radius in the original transom for the ram.
Most of the cutting was done on the extension.
Dale

[crazy horse]

Thanks Dale, That gives me a place to start. I had a idea kickin around in my head for a while, Just haven't had a chance to put it on paper.:)

[Bruster]

Heres the center mount.
Bruce you should be able to use the T2x trim ram with your transom extension.
Mine has about the same extension and i only had to put a small radius in the original transom for the ram.
Most of the cutting was done on the extension.
Dale

I was thinkin' I could put a trim cylinder on the outside of the boat. I really don't want to wack the transom with a big hole. Largecar Thought he might have something that might work. :D

[xskid]

a single ram can be used on outside of transom in the center of the motor with a couple fabricated brackets. the more setback would make this setup easier.

[Raceman]

a single ram can be used on outside of transom in the center of the motor with a couple fabricated brackets. the more setback would make this setup easier.

You guys aren't losing track of the fact that Bruce wants to run a champ mid rather than a mid with a conventional swivel bracket are you?

[T2x]

I was thinkin' I could put a trim cylinder on the outside of the boat. I really don't want to wack the transom with a big hole. Largecar Thought he might have something that might work. :D

RM is correct, the new Champ mid trim system is mounted outside the boat completely. We have them on the Wing.

T2x

[largecar91]

The trim cylinder I have is off a late model champ mid just like the one on my raceboat. Will this work on the old manual mids??

[Raceman]

The trim cylinder I have is off a late model champ mid just like the one on my raceboat. Will this work on the old manual mids??

Without going and looking I'd say not without a lot of fabrication. The transom bracket is definately different, and I can't remember how it attaches at the swivel bracket end. I have both on the shelf and will try to look tonight if somebody else doesn't answer.

[Bruster]

Without going and looking I'd say not without a lot of fabrication. The transom bracket is definately different, and I can't remember how it attaches at the swivel bracket end. I have both on the shelf and will try to look tonight if somebody else doesn't answer.

RM-
Thanks for looking. The design/fab work is easy, finding what looks right without any wackin on a really nice T-2X mid is the tough part.

Anybody have thoughts about steering? I heard someone has used the Sea Star ram on a champ mid. Again I need to do something that looks right without any wackin.

And.... how about shift linkage? I know that I have read about this somewhere too.:o

[Raceman]

Bruce, when I bought the yellow boat from my partner he'd had Stecky build him an XR6 for it, which was adapted to the champ mid. There are several ways to do it, but this one had a notch ground in the top of the gearcase, just deep enough to get a flat type shift lever through, and a custom shifter that went right on the shift shaft of the gearcase was made. He had a single stud on the side of the gearcase adapter plate that mounted the drum of the shift cable. It's one of the simplest ways I've ever seen to do it.

Somebody on here a while back posted that they'd run one through the swivel pin on an old style champ mid, but seems like a lot more trouble to me.

I don't have the pictures of the boat with the XR6 on it because I removed it and put a Speedmaster on it before it was ever wet.

[Bruster]

Got everything apart cleaned up, bead blasted & detailed. I even have some of the pieces painted. Shift linkage is a piece of cake. Just a little lathe work and a little help from an adapter kit should make this look like it came from Mercury. If I decide to run the SSM the shift shaft will remove from the upper linkage with out any dis-assembly. Steering is almost as easy. 1/4" stainless steel C.N.C. machined steering arm bolted in to the upper swivel mount bolts. Piece of cake. Sea Star Pro hydraulic on a champ mid.
I got a newer style champ trim cylinder from Barry (Largecar) that I should be able to fit in to the scheme of things quite nicely. The most exciting part of this will be the new transom mounts. I spent a few hours on the CAD looking at what I can do to use the Champ trim cylinder mixed with some hi tech Hot Rod engineering and I came up with some new custom CNC machined aluminium mounts, it looks like I can design them to set the total setback to about 6" and incorporate the Champ trim ram. Hopefully I can get the design work finished on the mounts and send them out to the machine shop in the next week or so.:D :D

[Bruster]

...Thanks to my 'ol buddy Dale. Thanks!

<img src=http://home.comcast.net/~mercmanwon/DSC_0680.JPG>
<img src=http://home.comcast.net/~mercmanwon/DSC_0683.JPG>

[Bruster]

TII-XS LIVES Power Head is on it's way.;)

[Raceman]

TII-XS LIVES Power Head is on it's way.;)

Pictures........... gotta have pictures.

[Bruster]

Pictures........... gotta have pictures.

Shelf, check da shelf, might be some there. if not, let me know.:D

[Jeff_G]

And in 50 years some yahoo is going to be discussing his extra special, absolutely, positively, definitely, Mercury made super rare T-II XS ! And will have the motor and decals to prove it! :D :D

[Mark75H]

It will be on eBay as a rare factory racer, just like the "Mark78H"

[Bruster]

And in 50 years some yahoo is going to be discussing his extra special, absolutely, positively, definitely, Mercury made super rare T-II XS ! And will have the motor and decals to prove it! :D :D

It'll be a good mystery to unravel;)